Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So Thunder Warriors/Mark 1 marines first popped up during Rogue Trader in the classic article on the history of marine armor (a subject that was FAR more interesting than it should have been).

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/769971.page



Would you like to know more?
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Thunder_Warriors

Generally they had cruder armor, cruder weapons (The Emperor was able to build them in a cave! With a box of scraps!) and were stronger and tougher than marines, but biologically unstable and ultimately replaced. (Note: Do not ask the Emperor about what retirement plan he offers).



I've always liked these savage guys with their power weapons and chain mail. The original TW was one of the first minis I bought, so uh, here are rules.



Thunder Warrior Squad

4-9 models + sergeant

Thunder Warrior
M5 WS3+ BS4+ S5 T5 W2 A2 Ld8 Sv4+
Sergeant
M5 WS3+ BS4+ S5 T5 W2 A3 Ld9 Sv4+

(So stronger and tougher, with an extra attack.
But worse armor, ballistic skill and move.)

Weapons:
Every Thunder Warrior is armored with a bolter, and astares chainsword
Any model may swap his bolter for a power weapon (sword/axe/maul) and shield (raises save to 3+)
1 model in 5 may take a flamer, heavy stubber or grenade launcher

The Sergeant is armed with a bolt pistol and power weapon.
The Sergeant may swap his power weapon for a plasma pistol, plasma gun, melta gun or power fist.

Special Rules:
Sudden gene failure - if you roll double 6s for a leadership check then the unit immediately suffers a mortal wound.

Transport:
Rhinos

Fluff and inclusion in armies:
Thunder Warriors were one of the Emperor's first experiments in creating transhuman warriors and had the advantage of being cheap and easy to create, even in the ruins of Terra. While transhuman experimentation is banned throughout the Imperium of Man desperate commanders have managed to discover and rediscover the techniques many times over to create similar warriors.
Thunder Warriors may be included as an Elite unit in Chaos Space Marine, Genestealer Cult and Imperial Guard armies.

Models


Lots of 3rd party out there, but here's my attempt, using a Goliath to count as an Ogryn bodyguard.

I'd personally give them an extra wound and attack. I don't know much about the TWs but I recall in The Outcast Dead that a couple were a pretty significant challenge for a number of Astartes.

Also your Sudden Gene rule doesn't work with 9th's Morale rule. I'd change it to "If you roll a 6 for a leadership check...".

 Valkyrie wrote:
I'd personally give them an extra wound and attack. I don't know much about the TWs but I recall in The Outcast Dead that a couple were a pretty significant challenge for a number of Astartes.

If you've read Outcast Dead and/or Valdor you've pretty much read the TW canon

Also your Sudden Gene rule doesn't work with 9th's Morale rule. I'd change it to "If you roll a 6 for a leadership check...".

Are we rolling 1 die for leadership now?!

Honestly I may drop it, and leave it just as fluff.

What does unstable mean? As in mentally unstable? If so they might have drawbacks similar to Kharn the Destroyer.

Sudden Gene Failure: Roll one dice at the end of each phase in which a model in this unit lost any wounds but was not destroyed; on a 1 that model is slain.

 MinMax wrote:
Sudden Gene Failure: Roll one dice at the end of each phase in which a model in this unit lost any wounds but was not destroyed; on a 1 that model is slain.

Given that they're W2... That'd be a 1/6 chance of doing a single Mortal Wound, basically, once per phase, if you happen to leave a model on one wound.

The rule either should be significant, or more likely, should be relegated to post-battle things (If you're doing Crusade or something with them). Not something you see mid-battle.

I was thinking something like:

Thunder Warrior
M5 WS4+ BS4+ S5 T4 W3 A3 Ld5 Sv4+
Sergeant
M5 WS4+ BS4+ S5 T4 W3 A4 Ld6 Sv4+

Brutal Legacy: This unit always succeeds on a save roll of 6+, irrespective of the AP of the attack.

On wound rolls of 6+ in melee, increase this units AP by 1.



The instability of the genetic structure is now covered by the Ld value - as all it does is increase the chance that you remove additional models from the unit. Also, with 3W, the number of casualties that are added to the 1D6 won't be that high.

So they have a better than invuln, though only a 6+, because…
Why? Why should they be able to bounce railgun shots?

 JNAProductions wrote:
So they have a better than invuln, though only a 6+, because…
Why? Why should they be able to bounce railgun shots?

I wasn't going for it working against things an invuln doesn't - not that thunder warriors ever encountered railguns. So they can always save against an attack. I suppose technically it's an invuln.

Low Ld, more wounds and a slight chance of ignoring an attack combine to create a unit that is tough but can fall apart. Rather than the elite and resilient custodes.



For unit types I'd do something like:

Berserker Genome: this unit must always move towards the closest enemy unit and charge if possible. any 6 to hit auto wounds the target. Come with pistols and chainswords.

Bulwark Genome: reduce to M4", 5+ invulnerable. Slab shields (+1 Armour) and bolter or chainsword.


Gene failures
Failed experiments used as human shield chaff at the forefront of the warrior advance.

10-20
M6 WS4+ BS4+ S4 T4 W2 A2 Ld4 Sv5+

lasguns, frag grenades

Genetic Timebomb: Each roll of 1 to hit in melee inflicts 1 MW on the gene failures unit and 1 MW on the enemy unit.

Desperate Assault: This unit is deployed 1D6" into the battlezone past the deployment zone.

As worded, it’s a 6+ Invuln that works on things that normally ignore Invulns. Though not Mortal Wounds, since those outright ignore armor, not just have good AP.

I would update it to:

Thunder Warrior
M5 WS4+ BS4+ S5 T4 W3 A3 Ld5 Sv4+
Sergeant
M5 WS4+ BS4+ S5 T4 W3 A4 Ld6 Sv4+

Brutal Legacy: This unit's armour save can never be reduced to less than 6+, irrespective of the AP of the attack.

On wound rolls of 6+ in melee, increase this units AP by 1.

What is the fluff behind Brutal Legacy? Please explain.

 JNAProductions wrote:
What is the fluff behind Brutal Legacy? Please explain.

A combination of them being tough with crazy metabolisms and their not quite space marine armour

 Hellebore wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
What is the fluff behind Brutal Legacy? Please explain.

A combination of them being tough with crazy metabolisms and their not quite space marine armour

So... Why wouldn't Orks get that?
Orks are tough-as tough or tougher than Marines. And if you're talking armor, Meganobs have armor equal to that of Terminators, just lacking a forcefield.

What about Tyranids?
Their big Monstrous Creatures-shouldn't they get this, since they're MUCH tougher than Marines, and their chitin is as good if not better than Marine armor.

Edit: If you want them to be tough, raise their Toughness. Or give them more wounds. This special rule is entirely unneeded and nonsensical.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
What is the fluff behind Brutal Legacy? Please explain.

A combination of them being tough with crazy metabolisms and their not quite space marine armour

So... Why wouldn't Orks get that?
Orks are tough-as tough or tougher than Marines. And if you're talking armor, Meganobs have armor equal to that of Terminators, just lacking a forcefield.

What about Tyranids?
Their big Monstrous Creatures-shouldn't they get this, since they're MUCH tougher than Marines, and their chitin is as good if not better than Marine armor.

Edit: If you want them to be tough, raise their Toughness. Or give them more wounds. This special rule is entirely unneeded and nonsensical.

Orks are t5, so they're tougher than these guys. Which I wanted. This rule reflects the same kind of thing that dark eldar grotesques et al get, or just normal DE for that matter - power through pain.

You conveniently ignored the most fragile race in the galaxy having the same kind of ability in your comparison.

 Hellebore wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
What is the fluff behind Brutal Legacy? Please explain.

A combination of them being tough with crazy metabolisms and their not quite space marine armour

So... Why wouldn't Orks get that?
Orks are tough-as tough or tougher than Marines. And if you're talking armor, Meganobs have armor equal to that of Terminators, just lacking a forcefield.

What about Tyranids?
Their big Monstrous Creatures-shouldn't they get this, since they're MUCH tougher than Marines, and their chitin is as good if not better than Marine armor.

Edit: If you want them to be tough, raise their Toughness. Or give them more wounds. This special rule is entirely unneeded and nonsensical.

Orks are t5, so they're tougher than these guys. Which I wanted. This rule reflects the same kind of thing that dark eldar grotesques et al get, or just normal DE for that matter - power through pain.

You conveniently ignored the most fragile race in the galaxy having the same kind of ability in your comparison.

Literally no one else has that ability. You've made an entirely new rule-because again, it's NOT an Invuln. It's better, against the few weapons that ignore Invulns, and the same against everything else.

Not to mention, Dark Eldar Wych Cults and Kabals are fragile. Covens are NOT-they are chonky perps. They're the giant slabs of meat.

 JNAProductions wrote:
So they have a better than invuln, though only a 6+, because…
Why? Why should they be able to bounce railgun shots?

Why do Railguns ignore Invuls to begin with?

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
So they have a better than invuln, though only a 6+, because…
Why? Why should they be able to bounce railgun shots?

Why do Railguns ignore Invuls to begin with?

Good question.

You can replace "Railgun" with "Belakor's Sword" or "Nightbringer's Scythe" and the point stays strong, though.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:
So they have a better than invuln, though only a 6+, because…
Why? Why should they be able to bounce railgun shots?

Why do Railguns ignore Invuls to begin with?

To better sell a 20 year old kit with a new eye-gouging price?

Just guessing here.

instead of giving them a semi weird invulnerable save, I would just give them a 6+ maybe 5+ feel no pain.