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I am still fairly new to 40k, but I am now at the point where I feel I know the core rules and could have a crack at more competitive games with the official rules. I have been playing Necrons and use Battlescribe to create my armies After looking over the C’tan units in more detail I noticed that I can choose the powers for them “before the battle”; and there are also strategems with this trait. From doing my own research “before the battle” looks to be right before the first battle round starts. However, the nachmund official rules are a bit hazy on this so I’d like to clarify some wording around them.

The first reference to “before the battle” (BTB going forward) is in the section “2. mustering armies”

If either player has access to any Stratagems that are used before the battle to upgrade units, these must be used now and the details of the upgrades noted on the player’s army roster.

Each player must then provide a copy of their army roster for their opponent to read through.

This would imply that you must select all your strategems and C’tan powers before even seeing your opponent’s army, which would make it a moot point. However, it is reference again in “section 13. RESOLVE PRE-BATTLE ABILITIES”, which comes after you have been your opponent’s roster and both sides have deployed their armies. The description here says:

The players alternate resolving any pre-battle abilities units from their army may have, and resolving any Stratagems that are used before the battle (excluding those that upgrade their units or those that enable them to set up a unit in a location other than the battlefield), starting with the player who will take the first turn.

This seems more appropriate as to where you would select your C’tan powers (so you could apply some minor tactical advantage based on now seeing your opponent’s army).

For example, let’s say I have one C’tan model and one strat I want I want to use pre battle which will give a HQ unit a new trait from a selection of 6. Adding both sections above and using a bit of common sense I interpret it as so – in step 2 (mustering armies) I must declare I will be using this strategem, but NOT state the trait at this point. Then after step 13 (after everything is deployed) I would then choose which trait I want to assign to my HQ unit. This same method would apply to selecting a C’tan powers.

Is this interpretation correct? If no, then how does it apply? Because I can’t see what the point is of using the phrase “before the battle”- it doesn’t really do anything.



One other question which sprang to mind when writing the above. At one point in a tournament do you glean any information about your opponent’s army? For example, in other boardgames and video games, both parties may at least know what factions each other uses, then before the game they at least have a chance to counter it slightly by building your roster with your opponent’s strengths in mind. If there are rules and processes around this, can someone please explain to me please?

Thanks,

Before the battle in a tournament sense means during list construction before you see your opponent's list

In response to your question reguarding tournaments it can vary.

Usually every player submits their lists blind to their opponent's choices including warlord traits psychic powers relics and the strats that grant extra of those. These are then locked.

Once all lists are in round 1 is paired and you can see the list you are playing, but you might go straight from round 1 to round 2 with very little time between but your opponent's list is usually available in a document or on BCP

List tailoring is very limited. Pretty much reserves but some armie have abilities that occur later on such as at the start of the first battle round/during deployment. E.g sisters sacred right can be determined after seeing your opponent's list.

Thanks for the answer. If that is the case, then what is the point of even using the phrase "before the battle" do x? It seem it you still have to pick those items at the same time as you pick everything else in the musterming army stage...

Because not every game is matched play, or a tournament...

GW have spread the rules around different books. The big rulebook's page 251 lays out what you have to do when you fill out your Battle-Forged Army Roster. It tells us that we have to list our Warlord Traits, Psychic Power, C'tan Powers, and "If a unit has any rules that must, or can be, selected or generated before the battle, your army roster must detail what those selections are..."

It goes on to say that this does not apply to rules that are selected at the start of the battle.

So Stratagems that upgrade or change aspects of your army are done "before the battle" and must be on your roster. Stratagems that cause you to put things into Reserve etc, though, are not on your roster and can be decided upon at the start of the game.

mucker973 wrote:
Thanks for the answer. If that is the case, then what is the point of even using the phrase "before the battle" do x? It seem it you still have to pick those items at the same time as you pick everything else in the musterming army stage...

Because they changed how they wanted those rules to function after they produced a number of codexes with the "before the battle" phrasing.

It they wanted real clarity, they would start using "when you muster your army" in future books and then errata all existing rules to use that language when that is what they mean.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
The big rulebook's page 251 lays out what you have to do when you fill out your Battle-Forged Army Roster. It tells us that we have to list our Warlord Traits, Psychic Power, C'tan Powers, and "If a unit has any rules that must, or can be, selected or generated before the battle, your army roster must detail what those selections are..."

You are right, I just looked it up, well spotted! Still dumb wording. It seems that anything with a rule "before the battle" is no different to a rule/selection without that phrase, hence the confusion on my part, it is a completely moot point to use that phrase...

Sure, it's little odd. But it's tip of the iceberg for this kind of thing in GW rules! As the poster above said, it's likely an artefact of how edition rule changes and matched play updates aren't synced with codex releases.

You get used to these idiosyncrasies (or give up on GW games hah)