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Hello, I am looking to break out my old white scars counts-as biker heavy army. I have not played since 6th so I have a few questions considering none of my models are Primaris.

1) Is there any chance the "non primaris" marines are phased out? I don't want to invest time in finish painting them if they're obsolete shortly.

2) This sort of relates to my first question, but a big part of the army is based around an apothecary with a Veteran squad on bikes kitted with lightning claws. I see a lot of X units/HQs on regular bikes have "Legends" next to them in Battlescribe....are these units/models still tournament legal?

Anyways here is what I have:


++ Battalion Detachment -3CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - White Scars) [96 PL, 7CP, 1,936pts] ++

+ Configuration [9CP] +

**Chapter Selector**: White Scars

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) [12CP]

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

+ Stratagems [-2CP] +

Stratagem: Gifts of the Khans [-1CP]

Stratagem: Khan's Champion [-1CP]

+ Troops [20 PL, 400pts] +

Tactical Squad [10 PL, 200pts]
. 7x Space Marine [126pts]: 7x Bolt pistol, 7x Boltgun, 7x Frag & Krak grenades
. Space Marine Sergeant [18pts]: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon [28pts]: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy bolter [10pts]
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon [28pts]: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Meltagun [10pts]

Tactical Squad [10 PL, 200pts]
. 7x Space Marine [126pts]: 7x Bolt pistol, 7x Boltgun, 7x Frag & Krak grenades
. Space Marine Sergeant [18pts]: Bolt pistol, Boltgun, Frag & Krak grenades
. Space Marine w/Heavy Weapon [28pts]: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Heavy bolter [10pts]
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon [28pts]: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Meltagun [10pts]

+ Elites [30 PL, 536pts] +

Apothecary on Bike [Legends] [4 PL, 80pts]: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades, Twin boltgun

Company Veterans on Bikes [Legends] [12 PL, 210pts]
. Space Marine Biker Veteran [44pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Lightning Claw [10pts], Twin boltgun
. Space Marine Biker Veteran [44pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Lightning Claw [10pts], Twin boltgun
. Space Marine Biker Veteran [44pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Lightning Claw [10pts], Twin boltgun
. Space Marine Biker Veteran [44pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, 2x Lightning Claw [10pts], Twin boltgun
. Veteran Biker Sergeant [34pts]: Bolt pistol, Frag & Krak grenades, Power sword, Twin boltgun

Vanguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 123pts]: Jump Pack [1 PL, 15pts]
. Vanguard Veteran [19pts]: Bolt pistol and Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Vanguard Veteran [19pts]: Bolt pistol and Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Vanguard Veteran [19pts]: Bolt pistol and Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Vanguard Veteran [19pts]: Bolt pistol and Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Vanguard Veteran Sergeant [32pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, Power fist [8pts], Storm shield [5pts]

Vanguard Veteran Squad [7 PL, 123pts]: Jump Pack [1 PL, 15pts]
. Vanguard Veteran [19pts]: Bolt pistol and Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Vanguard Veteran [19pts]: Bolt pistol and Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Vanguard Veteran [19pts]: Bolt pistol and Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Vanguard Veteran [19pts]: Bolt pistol and Chainsword, Frag & Krak grenades
. Vanguard Veteran Sergeant [32pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, Power fist [8pts], Storm shield [5pts]

+ Fast Attack [34 PL, 780pts] +

Bike Squad [11 PL, 270pts]
. Attack Bike [60pts]: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta [30pts], Twin boltgun
. Biker Sergeant [40pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, Power fist [10pts], Twin boltgun
. 3x Space Marine Biker w/Chainsword [90pts]: 3x Astartes Chainsword, 3x Frag & Krak grenades, 3x Twin boltgun
. Space Marine Biker w/Special Weapon [40pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, Meltagun [10pts], Twin boltgun
. Space Marine Biker w/Special Weapon [40pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, Meltagun [10pts], Twin boltgun

Bike Squad [11 PL, 270pts]
. Attack Bike [60pts]: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Frag & Krak grenades, Multi-melta [30pts], Twin boltgun
. Biker Sergeant [40pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, Power fist [10pts], Twin boltgun
. 3x Space Marine Biker w/Bolt Pistol [90pts]: 3x Bolt pistol, 3x Frag & Krak grenades, 3x Twin boltgun
. Space Marine Biker w/Special Weapon [40pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, Meltagun [10pts], Twin boltgun
. Space Marine Biker w/Special Weapon [40pts]: Frag & Krak grenades, Meltagun [10pts], Twin boltgun

Land Speeder Typhoons [12 PL, 240pts]
. Land Speeder Typhoon [6 PL, 120pts]: Multi-melta [10pts], Typhoon missile launcher
. Land Speeder Typhoon [6 PL, 120pts]: Multi-melta [10pts], Typhoon missile launcher

+ Dedicated Transport [12 PL, 220pts] +

Razorback [6 PL, 110pts]: Twin heavy bolter

Razorback [6 PL, 110pts]: Twin heavy bolter

++ Total: [96 PL, 7CP, 1,936pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

Tactical squads will combat squad, the heavy and bolters sit in the back while the melta and the power first sergeant cruise around in the Razorbacks.

I'm not really familiar with the whole strategem/detachment rules either, so any advice on those would be great.

Are White Scars the default option to go with for biker heavy armies still? Or is there a better option? Is there a way to make biker units Obsec?

I've also noticed that Battlescribe says I need at least 2 HQ's and 3 Troops...but I have seen armies that definitely don't have 3+ troops...is there another detachment I could use? I'm just using Battalion because it seems to be the "default ont".

For HQ/Warlord I am thinking of going with a Primaris Chaplain on Bike upgraded to Master of Sanctity and sticking him next to my Veterans Bike squad, and then if I need a second I would probably just kitbash a Captain or Librarian (again, Legends?) with the Chaplain on Bike model.

Let me try to answer one by one here:

1) Is there a chance that firstborn will be totally phased out? Yes. How high of a chance is anybody's guess.

Here's the more important thing. Even if you can still legally use them for many years to come: firstborn marines are obsolete *already*. They are in general very weak compared to their primaris counterparts; with a few notable exceptions. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news here.

Dark Angels probably make the best use of firstborn marines, and they have a Ravenwing which might give most of what you are looking for.

2) Legends units are not tournament legal in most cases. Check with the TO, but probably they will say no legends. Company Veterans on bikes are no longer part of the space marine lineup, neither is the Apothecary on bike.

3) It looks like you've taken a battalion detachment. That means you have at least 2 HQ, at least 2 troops, and 0-3 fast, 0-6 elite, 0-3 heavy, and 0-2 flyer. If you do this you get your command point cost of the detachment refunded. Effectively you do not need to pay any command points to use this detachment.

4) White Scars are *an* option for a biker heavy army. The other main option is Dark Angel Ravenwing, who I alluded to earlier. I think this would probably be a better choice. The Ravenwing Apothecary for example, is the only non-legends way I know of to get an Apothecary on bike. Further; Ravenwing Black Knights are not Legends and they would be very similar to your Company Veterans on Bikes. Also you remember how I said earlier that with a few notable exception Primaris were better than firstborn? Dark Angels Deathwing and Ravenwing are about 90% of that.


5) There are many detachments that you could use. The other "basic" detachment is Patrol, which has you get 1 HQ and 1 troop, but you can only take 0-2 of most of your other choices instead of 0-3.

There are also more specialized detachments. If you for instance want a lot of Fast Attack you could take an Outrider detachment. This would replace your mandatory choices with Fast attack and allow you to field many more fast attack units. It is a good deal, but if you choose a detachment such as outrider (not patrol or battalion) you must pay 3 CP before the game begins for the privilege of doing so.

6) Can you make bikes obsec?
The Warlord Trait Rites of War will do it.

Best of luck to you.