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I have been meaning to post this question, as a related question came up on another forum, and I wanted to see what you guys thought of this. Forgive me for any errors, as I lent out my rule book so have to use my somewhat suspect memory.

As we know, ICs get 3d6 for DT tests. Orks in Mega Armor always move as if they are in DT. So a Warboss in MA would get 3d6. When a IC gets attatched to a squad, the entire unit must move at the speed of its slowest model.

So far so good?

Situation 1: Vanilla warboss is attatched to a squad of 10 sluggas. At the start of the movement phase, 1 boy is in DT. The entire unit makes one roll of 2d6 for Difficult terrain test, and the entire unit must move at speed of the highest dice.

Correct?

Situation 2: Vanilla Warboss is attatched to a squad of 10 sluggas. At the start of the movement phase, the warboss is in DT. The entire unit makes one roll of 2d6 for Difficult terrain test, and the entire unit must move at the speed of the highest dice.

Correct?

Situation 3: Warboss in Mega Armor is attatched to a squad of 10 sluggas. At the start of the movement phase, no models are in difficult terrain. The entire unit makes one roll of 2d6 for difficult terrain test, and the entire unit must move at the speed of the highest dice.

Correct?

The reason I broke it down like this is Mega Armor, and 3d6 for ICs can cloud the issue up imho. To me, all 3 situations are exactly the same as far as mechanics go. Curious to see if you guys agree or disagree, and if you think that all 3 situations are the same.

Posted By OGGleep on 06/27/2006 7:12 AM

Situation 1: Vanilla warboss is attatched to a squad of 10 sluggas. At the start of the movement phase, 1 boy is in DT. The entire unit makes one roll of 2d6 for Difficult terrain test, and the entire unit must move at speed of the highest dice.

Correct?

If the boy is the only one in DT, so you use his DT roll for the entire squad. 2D6

Situation 2: Vanilla Warboss is attatched to a squad of 10 sluggas. At the start of the movement phase, the warboss is in DT. The entire unit makes one roll of 2d6 for Difficult terrain test, and the entire unit must move at the speed of the highest dice.

Correct?

If the Boss is the only one in DT, so you use the Boss's DT roll for the entire squad. 3D6

Situation 3: Warboss in Mega Armor is attatched to a squad of 10 sluggas. At the start of the movement phase, no models are in difficult terrain. The entire unit makes one roll of 2d6 for difficult terrain test, and the entire unit must move at the speed of the highest dice.

Correct?

The Boss is the only one in "DT", so you use his DT roll for the entire squad. 3D6

You are only slowed down by the boys (i.e. 2D6) if the boys are in a situation (DT) which would slow you down. If all of the boys are in the open, they would be normally moving at 6" anyway, so the Boss's DT roll is not reduced.

Basically, the Boss ALWAYS makes his 3D6 DT roll, it just happens to be ignored if the Boys must also make a 2D6 DT roll and the result is lesser than the Boss's. (Or he can simply leave the unit with his higher roll.)

blue loki is not correct.

The whole squad moves as slow as the slowest member, which rolls 2d6 for difficult terrain no matter who is actually in the difficult terrain as long as one of them is. In the case of the boss in the terrain the whole squad moves 2D6. Otherwise the unit would be able to have the models out of terrain make their normal 6" move, but that isn't how the rules work.

The boss in mega armor might possibly get his 3D6 movement in the open since that is the slowest movement but I'm not sure off the top of my head. If the wording of the armor is "moves as if in difficult terrain", then the whole squad should move as if in difficult terrain and would therefore only move 2D6 since the slowest member is moving as if in difficult terrain. You could always try to prove that the movement is decided by the lowest possible roll (3d6 vs no roll) instead of movement restriction (rough terrain) if you want loki.

You sure about that?

I'll admit, its been a long while since I had an IC attached to a squad. But it seems to me that if the IC was the only member in DT that he should get to roll his 3D6 and then the squad as a whole would move that distance. I'm definately not saying that the squad would get to move its full unrestricted 6" without any sort of roll at all.

I could be wrong though.

I'm sure that no matter who is in the squad the whole squad makes the difficult terrain test so it would be 2D6 if the Boss is in the terrain and attached to a unit. An easy way around this would be to detach him and then move if that wouldn't put him in danger by being alone.

The whole squad in the open and the boss in the armor is a bit trickier since it says "slowest member" which could be based on the difficult terrain aspect or the movement roll. I'd default to the movement roll since he "moves as if in difficult terrain" but I'd be happy to see a RAW that goes by his 3D6 roll which could be supplimented by turbo boosters or whatever they are that allow rerolls.

Mechanically the logic is:

Example 1 = Example 2

And

Example 2 = Example 3

so

Example 1 = Example 3

 

Mega Armor only causes the Model to act as if it is in difficult terrain. So, there is no difference between example two and example three. We know that units must move at the speed of its slowest member, and that units not models take difficult terrain tests. So ,there is no difference between examples two and one.

Then, we must accept that there is no difference between example one, and example three.

The reason for this is because when an IC is in difficult terrain and attatched to a squad, the slowest member is not the IC but the squad. The members of the squad move at 2d6 when in difficult terrain, and the second a member of the squad, IC or not, steps in to difficult terrain, the speed of the entire unit changes to 2d6. So, the two speeds any time DT is involved would be 3d6 and 2d6. Since we have to move at the speed of the slowest, it must be 2d6.

Ok, sounds good to me.

I could be wrong, this is just how I understand it.

I don't have the BGB at work, but what does it say under Independent Characters and 'move through cover'.  If it says he only gets this when not attached to a squad, then it is 2d6 in every case.

I'm still leaning toward 2d6 when 'attached' to a squad.  Moving at the rate of the slowest member seems pretty clear. 

Any time a warboss in megaarmor is in a squad, he becomes the slowest model at 3d6 in the open, but 2d6 if any of the squad are in DT. 

I'll check the rulebook tonight...

I don't know if that is nessisarily true.

IMHO there is no difference between a IC being in cover, or a member of the squad being in cover as far as mechanics are concerned. Units are considered to be in difficult terrain and not models. So if any model in the unit is considered to be in DT, the two speeds are 3d6 and 2d6. In the case of a Mega Armored Warboss attatched to a Slugga mob, the sluggas are actually slowing the Warboss down. The sluggas are considered to be in DT (thank you warboss), which would be 2d6.

Units are considered to be in difficult terrain and not models. So if any model in the unit is considered to be in DT, the two speeds are 3d6 and 2d6. In the case of a Mega Armored Warboss attatched to a Slugga mob, the sluggas are actually slowing the Warboss down. The sluggas are considered to be in DT (thank you warboss), which would be 2d6.

But why is either 2D6 or 3D6 considered a "speed"? I know "speed" is never defined in the rules but I think most people would settle on the amount of movement distance a model may move as its "speed".

So a 2D6 or 3D6 roll is what is used to determine "speed". Once you've determined the speed of the model/unit you know what it is for that move.

I see no issue with allowing an IC to roll his own 3D6 along with the unit's 2D6 roll to determine the distance he can move. Even if he rolls higher than the unit's move he won't be allowed to move it unless he leaves the unit, so I don't see what the big deal is honestly.

Here's the funny part about all this. The way the rules are now, you can have the unit move their full 6 and declare the character is breaking off. He then rolls his difficult terrain roll and if he rolls high enough to make coherency with the unit, he can attach to it again.

At least that's what my opponent did last game, and nothing in the rules prohibits you from leaving a unit and then reuniting with it in the same turn. This look right?