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Star cannons should be flat 3 damage. Change my mind.

warpedpig wrote:
Star cannons should be flat 3 damage. Change my mind.

Damage creep is bad for the game. Simply making lots of things killier is not healthy for gameplay.

Lots of things should be LESS killy, not more.

Probably wouldn't break the game if you made them D3, but they're also fine as they are now. So given:
A.) They're fine as they are.
and
B.) They'd still be fine at D3
and
C.) The game is already often considered to be hyper-lethal.

...then the end result is that the starcannon remains fine but the game as a whole becomes every so slightly more lethal and thus ever so slightly worse. Which is an overall net negative result.

Do you have a case for why the starcannon isn't fine as-is?

There’s such a fine line between starcannons and Shuriken cannons I think it would be more fitting to make it D3 and cost it the same as a bright Lance so you’d have something more specific in its niche. Eldar are the experts are having very specifically tailored units and their weapons should follow that theme.

You wanna kill primaris. Use Shuriken cannons. You wanna drown terminators or like units then use starcannons. You wanna kill tanks you use bright lances or prisms.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Look at Blast masters. Flat 3 damage. Strength 8. Heavy 3. I’m just saying keep them strength 7. Heavy 2. AP-3. And D3

We don't need more infantry-portable weapons that can oneshot a Terminator or Custodian.

The thing is, even if there is some overlap between the starcannon and the shuriken cannon, they both do their jobs well enough to be worth considering as options. And having both weapons be considered viable is where you want to be. So best case scenario, you just break even in terms of making the star cannon a viable choice (because it already is one).

And then as a consequence of breaking even, you make the game more lethal which, again, isn't something most people want right now.

If you and your friends are excited about the idea, by all means use this proposal in your home games. It's not something that I personally am in a rush to introduce to my gaming group.

Also, going to push back on the notion that all things eldar need to be specialized. While specialization is part of our sales pitch, that has historically mostly applied to aspect warriors (and even they're moving away from specialization somewhat.) Our heavy weapons and the platforms that can carry them have historically been pretty generalist in their utility. Drowning the enemy in strength 6 shooting used to be one of our more reliable methods of dealing with enemy transports, for instance.

A fusion gun can one shot a terminator. Why not starcannons which would be 15 or 20 points a pop? And can only be on heavy weapons platforms?

warpedpig wrote:
A fusion gun can one shot a terminator. Why not starcannons which would be 15 or 20 points a pop? And can only be on heavy weapons platforms?

I didn't say there weren't any one-shot weapons. Your point about the platform is also pointless. The Starcannons have always been the Eldar equivalent to Plasma weapons, no reason why they get this unnecessary damage boost. You haven't actually given a proper reason why they should be D3.

Because they are too similar to the Shuriken cannon already. it would just be another specialized option which is what Eldar are all about. Specialized units and weapons.

 Valkyrie wrote:

warpedpig wrote:
A fusion gun can one shot a terminator. Why not starcannons which would be 15 or 20 points a pop? And can only be on heavy weapons platforms?

I didn't say there weren't any one-shot weapons. Your point about the platform is also pointless. The Starcannons have always been the Eldar equivalent to Plasma weapons, no reason why they get this unnecessary damage boost. You haven't actually given a proper reason why they should be D3.

Plasma should be anti terminator weapons.
Terminators didn't use to be W3, since they are the weapons designed to kill them should also be D3.
The game is better when different weapons work well against different units.
It would give the perfect rock paper scissor of eldar heavy weapons. Scatter lasers for light infantry (imperial guard, gaunts etc), shuriken cannon for elite infantry(MEQs), star car cannon for heavy infantry (TEQs), Bright lance for vehicles. Oh and missile launcher for flexibility/because it looks nice.

Good change.

Counterpoint: Terminators being too easy to kill if you spam the right weapon has been more of a bug than a feature over the years. I assosciate being able to kill terminators too easily with power creep.

At D2 with good AP, star cannons are already better against terminators than shuriken cannons are, but terminators still get to feel more durable than W2 marines.

Against Custodian Guard starcannons do 7% more damage, shuriken cannons should not be D2.