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Sadly, this will also probably mean that we won't get any further English translations of it as well.

"Games Workshop — the owner of Warhammer brand — noted that Liber Chaotica, originally released in 2006 contains content that is inconsistent with the company's values now, almost 20 years later.

Therefore, Liber Chaotica cannot be published in Polish in the known form, and there will probably be no reprints of this position in the English-language version."

Disappointing.

20 years of publishing is bound to result in some dumb moves. Not sure if it makes sense to hide them.

I wonder what caused that? GW publishes a lot of their old stories and lore all over the place and very little gets removed. It might be some specific elements that, when translated into Polish or released for that market, cause issues?

It might even be one of those cases where a throw-away single line buried deep in it is the only offender and it can be changed easily.



I know I got one the last time GW did a reprint and its a great book, some utterly awesome chaos art in there!

 Overread wrote:
I wonder what caused that? GW publishes a lot of their old stories and lore all over the place and very little gets removed. It might be some specific elements that, when translated into Polish or released for that market, cause issues?

It might even be one of those cases where a throw-away single line buried deep in it is the only offender and it can be changed easily.



I know I got one the last time GW did a reprint and its a great book, some utterly awesome chaos art in there!

It may be something trivial like copyright or licensing problems with artists that contributed to the work, some of the stuff in the book is quite old and back then GW often failed to use the correct legal constructs that would have allowed them the use of artwork etc. in perpetuity.

On the other hand, it may have something to do with the sections concerning Slaanesh and the extreme anti-LGBT turn that the polish government has taken in the past couple of years - they introduced laws that prohibit so called ''LGBT propaganda'' and so on, it may be that GW does not want to open that potential can of worms out of fear of damaging their brand, even if the actual risk of that happening are probably rather low.

I don't think that we'll ever get a definitive answer either way.

copyright would be a different issue and the statement is about "company values" within the text

Does Liber Chaotica have a chance to appear in the future? We do not know. It has been suggested that this could happen after the text is first changed on the Black Library side to match today's Games Workshop standards

so not that some pictures are offensive or copyrighted but there is something written GW wants removed

 kodos wrote:
copyright would be a different issue and the statement is about "company values" within the text

Does Liber Chaotica have a chance to appear in the future? We do not know. It has been suggested that this could happen after the text is first changed on the Black Library side to match today's Games Workshop standards

so not that some pictures are offensive or copyrighted but there is something written GW wants removed

Yeah, but a vague non-statement about values is exactly what you would use to avoid tensions with e.g. the government and subsequent damage to the brand. ''We remove this product from our production lines because we believe it would be suppressed otherwise'' would be a disastrous statement and would agitate several groups at once, of course you don't go out and say so if you can avoid it at all. On the other hand, agreements between GW and artists may include clauses that forbid discussion of the contract or contract disputes in public.

For Liber Chaotica specifically, there is precedent for intellectual property issues: the original books had artwork by Ian Miller, which is completely absent from the collected volume. If more problems of that kind popped up, it might have easily resulted in future reprints being effectively impossible because the books would lack so much of the orignal content...

Quite sad, this is definitely one of my all time favourite gw publications and this is undeniably (imo) a consequence of the prudishness / purity cult that is running unchecked through many parts of society right now. though I know many would deny this and indeed attack me for holding such an opinion.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 kodos wrote:
copyright would be a different issue and the statement is about "company values" within the text

Does Liber Chaotica have a chance to appear in the future? We do not know. It has been suggested that this could happen after the text is first changed on the Black Library side to match today's Games Workshop standards

so not that some pictures are offensive or copyrighted but there is something written GW wants removed

Yeah, but a vague non-statement about values is exactly what you would use to avoid tensions with e.g. the government and subsequent damage to the brand. ''We remove this product from our production lines because we believe it would be suppressed otherwise'' would be a disastrous statement and would agitate several groups at once, of course you don't go out and say so if you can avoid it at all. On the other hand, agreements between GW and artists may include clauses that forbid discussion of the contract or contract disputes in public.

For Liber Chaotica specifically, there is precedent for intellectual property issues: the original books had artwork by Ian Miller, which is completely absent from the collected volume. If more problems of that kind popped up, it might have easily resulted in future reprints being effectively impossible because the books would lack so much of the orignal content...

Seems to me if they didn't want to say it was a copyright issue, or were contractually obliged to not say the reason.... they would have just said nothing.

Saying nothing would have been a legitimate option, I doubt "because values" solves any contractual issues that wouldn't be solved by saying nothing.

I think the likely conclusion is they found something in the book they were worried could be picked up by a special interest group to deride them. Or maybe it's as simple as it showing some Slaaneshi boobies or something like that (though didn't GW recently do a made-to-order of some exposed boobies demonettes recently?).

It's unlikely copyright, GW re-issued it a few years ago (I know I've got a copy of it from them).


As for boobies, there's 2 models with exposed breasts in the current GW range. Heck there's 1 in the current Christmas Bundle.

I don't think GW has done the Diaz Deamonettes in a good few years for made-to-order sadly. Always a surprise because those things sell at crazy amounts secondhand (though knowing my luck if GW did do it they'd do it at the time I don't have £100+ to spend getting a load)

Shame, that is one of their best books.

Definitely nothing to do with Poland's religious fundamentalist government.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Definitely nothing to do with Poland's religious fundamentalist government.

That's very unlikely to be relevant since it would in no way prevent further English editions, which as the link explicitly says (this is a publisher and I don't see an obvious reason to disbelieve them) is probably the case.

/Edit - google translation

The long-announced position of Liber Chaotica, unfortunately, will not be published in Polish for reasons beyond our control.

We realize that this information is disappointing and even devastating for you. You can believe us that we feel the same way.

Liber Chaotica is an esteemed title that many of you have been waiting for. We feel obliged to provide you with an explanation of the situation.

Games Workshop - the owner of the rights to the Warhammer brands - has pointed out that Liber Chaotica, originally released in 2006, contains content that is inconsistent with the company's values ​​now, almost 20 years later.

Therefore, Liber Chaotica cannot be published in Polish in its known form, and probably there will be no reprints of this item in the English version.

Of course, we are saddened by this fact, but as a publisher, we understand that Games Workshop cares about the company's image. This is a priority for them and we have no choice but to accept our partner's decision.

This is a very difficult situation for us. We devoted a lot of time and work to this position.

We would like to thank the team: Grzegorz Bonikowski, Piotr Narloch, Janek Podraza, Joanna Podraza, Paweł Potakowski, Adam Stefańczyk and Rafał Zduński, for their commitment.

We had no influence on the situation, but we still feel obliged to apologize to you, our readers, for not being able to provide you with the long-awaited title. We're really sorry about that.

Does Liber Chaotica have a chance to appear in the future?

We do not know. It has been suggested that this could happen after the text is first changed on the Black Library side to match today's Games Workshop standards.

Will there be anything to replace Liber Chaotica?

Yes. We have obtained permission to release the album The Horus Heresy - Visions of Heresy, but for obvious reasons it will have to wait.

We thank you in advance for your understanding regarding this situation.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Definitely nothing to do with Poland's religious fundamentalist government.

It actually reads as though it's absolutely nothing to do with Poland specifically, it's just the news has come from a company working on the Polish translation. Seems like it's entirely down to GW deciding the content is not something they want to be associated with as a company, hence the conclusion that there likely won't be any reprints in English either.

Reasons are depictions of tits in the book. Virtue signalers have apparently never read a Playboy magazine.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Or maybe it's as simple as it showing some Slaaneshi boobies or something like that (though didn't GW recently do a made-to-order of some exposed boobies demonettes recently?).

And in a twist we'll find out that it's actually Khorne whose deep and sophisticated characterization in Liber Chaotica is offensive to GW and is pending a rewrite to dumbify him so Liber Chaotica is in line with other modern depictions of the Blood God. It will involve lots of blood stains and "Blood for the Blood God" scrawled over offensive parts in big, red, dripping letters.

It's a real shame that there won't be a re-print.

If it really is because the content "doesn't fit with GW's current values"...it's a work of fiction about the Chaos powers. I mean, do I have to explain this?

Oh well, at least my own copy won't be going down in value.

They reprinted the original Realms of Chaos books a few years back, so I dont see what the issue is now.

Then again I also dont see what the issue with the Deck Apes in Spell Jammer is either.

I am old.

 Strg Alt wrote:
Reasons are depictions of tits in the book. Virtue signalers have apparently never read a Playboy magazine.

Except that theory falls apart seeing those are already present on existing products...

Maybe stop the lie about reason?

 Overread wrote:


As for boobies, there's 2 models with exposed breasts in the current GW range. Heck there's 1 in the current Christmas Bundle.

Out of curiosity, what are the 2 models? I would assume something slaanesh or dark elf, but am not sure.

 Smokestack wrote:

 Overread wrote:


As for boobies, there's 2 models with exposed breasts in the current GW range. Heck there's 1 in the current Christmas Bundle.

Out of curiosity, what are the 2 models? I would assume something slaanesh or dark elf, but am not sure.

You are going to buy them now right?!

 NAVARRO wrote:

 Smokestack wrote:

 Overread wrote:


As for boobies, there's 2 models with exposed breasts in the current GW range. Heck there's 1 in the current Christmas Bundle.

Out of curiosity, what are the 2 models? I would assume something slaanesh or dark elf, but am not sure.

You are going to buy them now right?!

I own worse, I am sure... I do collect slaanesh and DoK... No exposed boobies though, so was curious.

 Strg Alt wrote:
Reasons are depictions of tits in the book. Virtue signalers have apparently never read a Playboy magazine.

Rare to have right wingers described with that term tho.

 Smokestack wrote:

 Overread wrote:


As for boobies, there's 2 models with exposed breasts in the current GW range. Heck there's 1 in the current Christmas Bundle.

Out of curiosity, what are the 2 models? I would assume something slaanesh or dark elf, but am not sure.

One is the old Dracha model in the Wood elf line (now sold as a branchwraith)
The other is the bloodwrack sorceress for Daughters of Khaine (sold as part of the Cauldron of Blood kit)

 Overread wrote:

 Smokestack wrote:

 Overread wrote:


As for boobies, there's 2 models with exposed breasts in the current GW range. Heck there's 1 in the current Christmas Bundle.

Out of curiosity, what are the 2 models? I would assume something slaanesh or dark elf, but am not sure.

One is the old Dracha model in the Wood elf line (now sold as a branchwraith)
The other is the bloodwrack sorceress for Daughters of Khaine (sold as part of the Cauldron of Blood kit)

Thanks. I had to look as I own the Cauldron of Blood. I know there were alternate builds, so maybe I didnt use that bit?, as none of the models I have from there have exposed breasts..

EDIT: Nevermind... snake lady... ok, yeah she does have her righty out... As you can tell... I never actually played this army... just collect the models.

I have a real hard time believing this about boobies in a piece of fantasy artwork.

Its got to be something else.

As noted it could be the artwork and Poland's specific stance on things and GW simply issued a blanket statement that is a neutral one that doesn't point the finger at anyone.


Or it could be some bit of lore in the book that's similar to how the fimir were written out of things*.
That said GW is normally pretty tame in things sexual for the most part and the blood, guts and all is, well, everywhere in their setting.

Hard to say unless GW turns around and tells us specifically or they release an updated modified version. Again this could just be GW giving a simple answer that is neutral.


*

GrosseSax wrote:
I have a real hard time believing this about boobies in a piece of fantasy artwork.

Its got to be something else.

A lot of the book in question is written in-character from the perspective of a imperial scholar, maybe that's part of the problem. I'm sure that the Slaanesh part contains lots of passages that mention ''unnatural acts'' and so on, that could be understood as homophobic if you are very sensitive and also ignore the fact that it is obviously not the opinion of the author or the company, but the opinion of a fictional character inside a fictional society that is, in fact, actually homophobic as well as a lot of other bad things.

if it is any picture, this would be easy to resolve for the polish version or an english re-print and not a reason to drop the book

now that GW is successfully licensing the 40k IP and it becoming pop-culture this is much more tricky and much more of a problem than the Fantasy setting
it could imply that the setting itself is changing, from an "everybody evil" to a clear black&white thing
it is a satirical neo-fascist religious fanatic society in 40k and you cannot have the poster boys doing planetary genocides on a daily basis while facing enemies which are far worse

hence changing what chaos is because with Warhammer gone, a book about Chaos will be viable for the 40k setting as well (there is a difference between Chaos in Warhammer and 40k, but people who never were into Fantasy and just know it from reading about Total War are more about that those are identical things)

Tsagualsa wrote:

GrosseSax wrote:
I have a real hard time believing this about boobies in a piece of fantasy artwork.

Its got to be something else.

A lot of the book in question is written in-character from the perspective of a imperial scholar, maybe that's part of the problem. I'm sure that the Slaanesh part contains lots of passages that mention ''unnatural acts'' and so on, that could be understood as homophobic if you are very sensitive and also ignore the fact that it is obviously not the opinion of the author or the company, but the opinion of a fictional character inside a fictional society that is, in fact, actually homophobic as well as a lot of other bad things.

Is the Imperium homophobic?

I mean, the Imperium sucks. It's a monstrous monolith of pain and destruction. But I didn't think it really cared who Joe Schmoe loves. Like, the cruelty and horror is that Joe is torn away from his loving spouse, given a rifle and maybe a flak vest, and thrown into the meatgrinder for a battle that's probably not even needed. It doesn't matter what gender his spouse is.

I'm sure there are homophobes and homophobic cultures WITHIN the Imperium, but that's because the Imperium is damn big.

 JNAProductions wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

GrosseSax wrote:
I have a real hard time believing this about boobies in a piece of fantasy artwork.

Its got to be something else.

A lot of the book in question is written in-character from the perspective of a imperial scholar, maybe that's part of the problem. I'm sure that the Slaanesh part contains lots of passages that mention ''unnatural acts'' and so on, that could be understood as homophobic if you are very sensitive and also ignore the fact that it is obviously not the opinion of the author or the company, but the opinion of a fictional character inside a fictional society that is, in fact, actually homophobic as well as a lot of other bad things.

Is the Imperium homophobic?

I mean, the Imperium sucks. It's a monstrous monolith of pain and destruction. But I didn't think it really cared who Joe Schmoe loves. Like, the cruelty and horror is that Joe is torn away from his loving spouse, given a rifle and maybe a flak vest, and thrown into the meatgrinder for a battle that's probably not even needed. It doesn't matter what gender his spouse is.

I'm sure there are homophobes and homophobic cultures WITHIN the Imperium, but that's because the Imperium is damn big.

To clarify: we are talking about the Old World Warhammer Fantasy Empire here, not the 40k Imperium of Man. My fault for not making that clear, they're both called ''Imperium'' in German.