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I've looked for this several times over the last year at this point and still no luck. Wrath and Glory supposedly is built to be able to use miniatures, along with every other 40k RPG, technically. I'd love to see literally any example of this, but I don't think I ever have. Am I missing something? Can anyone find a video out there of anyone actually doing this?

Recorded? No. Have I personally done it in my old Deathwatch campaign as GM? Yes. While you can run them 1:1 with a grid or inches on a tabletop, we found it better to use the minis as a general guide moreso than an exact representation of the battlefield.

 warboss wrote:
Recorded? No. Have I personally done it in my old Deathwatch campaign as GM? Yes. While you can run them 1:1 with a grid or inches on a tabletop, we found it better to use the minis as a general guide moreso than an exact representation of the battlefield.

That's actually exactly the sort of thing that I want to understand.

1) How do miniatures play out when using real 3d terrain like in Necromunda or sector mechanicus?

2) Why is it that I keep hearing what you say, that it's better to be abstract about it even with miniatures? I would think one would want to keep it "exact" unless the player falls an inch short of doing something cool etc.

3) Why the heck aren't miniatures used more often even when Warhammer is exploding in popularity?

 Netsurfer733 wrote:

That's actually exactly the sort of thing that I want to understand.

1) How do miniatures play out when using real 3d terrain like in Necromunda or sector mechanicus?

2) Why is it that I keep hearing what you say, that it's better to be abstract about it even with miniatures? I would think one would want to keep it "exact" unless the player falls an inch short of doing something cool etc.

3) Why the heck aren't miniatures used more often even when Warhammer is exploding in popularity?

1) We used 40k terrain (we played half the time in the same FLGS we played 40k at) without any issue. You just use the rules in the RPG for things like difficult terrain and climbing and approximate it on the table top. If you make the DC of the climb check to quickly climb the ladder then you don't worry about the actual inch height of the ladder (that should be instead be approximated by the RPG difficulty check to climb it per those rules) and just put the fig on the top.

2) Because tabletop minis gaming is already very abstracted to a point that is significantly more than most "realistic" rpgs. For example, pistols might have a range of 6"-12" in 40k but bolters are typically only double that. In most RPGs, rifle class weapons are effective out to much longer ranges. If you're using the tabletop exactly as displayed then you'll probably only ever be in pistol range on the average RPG tabletop (which is usually smaller than the 4'x6' of a full minis game). You have to abstract ranges/distances just to make it work practically and thematically. That said, no one is stopping you from trying it out and seeing if you can make it work. In my experience, unless the game is specifically designed to work on a grid (like modern D&D since 3e) then you run into more problems than you solve by going 1:1. Usually, the games that aren't designed like that are thematically more "theater of the mind" with minis rules feeling like they're bolted on; it works but not necessarily in a satisfying way.

3) Because minis gaming and RPGing isn't a 100% crossover? I absolutely am interested in both and most of the people I have historically RP'ed with I've met through minis gaming (whether historical, fantasy, or scifi) so in my personal games most of us do both... but that isn't always the case. There is a barrier to entry for people to assemble and paint their first mini and there isn't a viable prepainted official market for 40k. Obviously you can instead just by minis painted by others instead though and I have encouraged that in the past for games where they didn't have prepaints available.

Hope that helps. Obviously, the above is just my opinion and biased by my own personal experiences. YMMV. Add salt as needed.

That's good to know about RPG systems being able to tackle 3D terrain interestingly. I've only ever seen examples of fights etc. occurring in things like Roll20 where everything's a mere 2D map with tokens. I know 40k FFG RPGs at least had rules for falling etc. so I can't imagine that wouldn't work out... I need to look into Wrath and Glory more. (Them having things like SoB Exorcist tank rules has really got me reconsidering that system...)

I appreciate the abstraction situation then, especially given limited resources to most players. I actually did buy a 6x4' table a few years back (portable/Alpha Terra) pretty much explicitly for this purpose though lol, and I also have a wide range of miniatures to represent a wide range of things that I've gathered up over the years. I do feel like I can do it, and just abstract things as need be; but I have no qualms with using 1:1 pistol ranges over 5' etc. personally. Why not? I won't be using grids though, I don't see why it's worth doing that over measuring distances like in 40k TT (1 meter = 1" ofc). Main issue there is how we'll probably need to make a 4 hr drive to play any one game most if not all of the time, so it might be a pain to bring said resources, but we can do that. *I* would think it's worth it...

Yeah that 100% crossover factoid is bugging the living heck out of me atm (even though other 40k RPGs say you theoretically can use miniatures np?). Here is the latest thread I have, trying to set up a Necromunda RPG campaign: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/807968.page#11465880
Right now I'm thinking of just doing a damned regular/out-the-book Necromunda campaign and baaarely eeking in the *slightest* hint of RPG story/narrative/RP that I can possibly squeeze out of that stone. And then hopefully, later, once we're more invested - finish creating my own RPG version of it that makes absolutely full use of RPG *type* rules (with as fast/efficient rules as possible), a hex-based meta map, civilians, auto-roaming NPCs, a full video game made in Unity or something to support all that, ultimately played with real life miniatures on top of a TV screen embedded in a table. LOFTY aspirations I have here.

So you can see why I'm hung up on the lack of examples there are for miniatures, because honestly whatever we do, I really want to leave the door *wide* open for miniatures use. It's what they're made for, imo Any additional thoughts/advice given all this, or am I trying to do something crazy here? Because I feel a bit overwhelmed by it atm, now that 2023 is here (a year in which I actually intend to start doing these things I've thought about all pandemic long).

Definitely some lofty aspirations and I wish you well in that regard. We always used minis in our deathwatch campaign but, again, we all met playing 40k so it wasn't the slightest hurdle for any of us in that case. In fact, it was the players first RPG game instead so their biggest hurdle was switching over to an RPG mindset versus a tabletop gaming mindset.

Have you instead considered just using the minis rules for combat (with "buffs" for players to make sure they don't die easily in one shot like adding extra wounds?) and then just instead adding some out of combat (where minis don't matter) simple rules for social encounters/skill checks instead? If the terrain and immersion on the tabletop is key for you, you may want to tackle it from the other direction and make the minis game more rpgish instead of adding more tabletop feel to the RPG. Just an idea as there is no wrong way to do it; whatever works for you and your players is what is best.

You know...I've been leaning more and more in that direction and I think you're right. And it harkens back to one of the things I first looked into years ago for this, which was - indeed - how to inject social interaction rules into the Necromunda ruleset using Cool/Int/whatever. And yeah the buffs for 'players' PCs would, I think, mean 'fate points' that they could acquire throughout the campaign for those 'PCs' within a gang, to ensure that when they would die or suffer some fatal-ish thing, they could just expend one of said fate points and move on. Something like that...

Hah, or you know - I wonder if it would be possible for me to be (in this 4 player matchup one including me) three gangs vs 1? Or maybe I could just play three gangs worth of guys myself...3v3... That COULD keep them all on the same team and actually be able to RP together. Hm. I actually just finished texting my friend and it turns out we've indeed decided on Necromunda campaign as opposed to Rogue Trader RPG or something, but this will have to be the next thing we talk about now.

So yeah I keep seeing how all RPGs can technically be done with miniatures etc., but it looks like you're right - that's going to be where I start (from a Necromunda ruleset, not a 40k RPG ruleset). So be it, and thanks We'll see where this goes...

I can't think of any recorded campaigns offhand, but there was a trend around 2010 or so where folks were doing "Inquisimunda". Inquisitor type games with various homebrew original-Necromunda-based rulesets ported into the setting or incoporating various elements of Inquisitor. Folks playing these seemed to want an RPG'ish feel to their games. There's an Inquisimunda ruleset or two over at yaktribe still that you can download. https://yaktribe.games/community/vault/categories/inquisimunda.41/

Also Inq28 (Inquisitor 28) still has a following I believe. Searches for Inq28 and Inquisimunda might get you at least some game inspiration.

I love the Inquisitor setting and the original Necromunda rules so it'd be a dream for me to participate in an Inquisimunda campaign with a good DM and some RPG elements.

 Netsurfer733 wrote:

So yeah I keep seeing how all RPGs can technically be done with miniatures etc., but it looks like you're right - that's going to be where I start (from a Necromunda ruleset, not a 40k RPG ruleset). So be it, and thanks We'll see where this goes...

Killteam is another option with points values for a variety of figs/characters with upgrades IIRC to even out points between players. Also, remember that 40k started as a quasi-RPG tabletop hybrid with a GM in Rogue Trader so you're not straying far from the initial vision.

If you go through with this, feel free to post a thread here with pics/video. Since you weren't able to find a video on the subject, you may be the first on the internet!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eilif wrote:

Also Inq28 (Inquisitor 28) still has a following I believe. Searches for Inq28 and Inquisimunda might get you at least some game inspiration.

Some great suggestions. How far away from the Inquisitor game were those fan rulesets? I suppose if they were very different you could also use Inquisitor but just change the scale/measurement values constant.

Some very good thoughts/ideas! Yeah I think as far as Inq28 they don't seem to have any social interaction rules or anything even in the fan made stuff? So I don't really get how they might be more 'RPG-like' as-yet... Not sure how I'm going to get any roleplay done at all here to be honest lol. I'm really working this actively atm. Work week starts tomorrow though, ofc...may need to pick this up again mostly next weekend.

 warboss wrote:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eilif wrote:

Also Inq28 (Inquisitor 28) still has a following I believe. Searches for Inq28 and Inquisimunda might get you at least some game inspiration.

Some great suggestions. How far away from the Inquisitor game were those fan rulesets? I suppose if they were very different you could also use Inquisitor but just change the scale/measurement values constant.

I imagine it varies, but in general, INQ28, should be more like inquisitor since it's essentially just a transposition of scale .

Inquisimunda will be more like Necromunda ported into the wider 40k universe.