Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

what are the actual benefits of vehicle squadrons?

ok I get its several in one slot, but I suspect in a 3k-4k force bringing an extra two troop and one extra HQ (or spreading out what you have anyway) into multiple formations largely negates this.

they can see through each other seems maybe useful, occasionally.

but apart from that, is there any reason to bother with this? I mean even GW seem to know it sucks given how dreadnoughts are multiple per slot but then independent when deployed

Dreadnought units splitting up and MBTs not is one of the big mysteries of out time.

leopard wrote:

ok I get its several in one slot, but I suspect in a 3k-4k force bringing an extra two troop and one extra HQ (or spreading out what you have anyway) into multiple formations largely negates this.

You're still locked to just the one primary detachment though. The allied detachment needs to be a different faction, so you can't have all of your tanks follow the same Legion/RoW rules.

Actual benefits:
More tanks per slot, not blocking LoS, and they usually get a discount for additional models.

It is weird how differently dreadnoughts are treated from regular tanks though. They're just so much better it's not funny.

Limits kill points, can fire through each other which is actually really good, especially if you're running a spearhead as things can get very cramped, and you get a pretty big discount over the squadron normally. Ie predators are 20pts cheaper per model when squadroned up.

As previously pointed out, it's also good for saving on slots. In a small game that's probably a non issue but a standard size game of 3k you're looking at a lot of competition for your FA and HS slots

gods are "kill points" really a thing?

the force org slot notes that you can take multiple detachments, you just have to fill all the compulsory slots of one before you can take more so not really seeing that as overly limiting - especially with various rite of war giving other units into compulsory troop choices

TBH I'd expect to run out of practical table space before running out of slots


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I note Dreadnoughts used to be vehicles, but even then split to individual units on the table

the only use case I see for vehicle squadrons is the one that ironically you can't do - have Rhinos in multiple for units larger than 10/12 models

No, you can't. You can take optional detachments such as a Lord of War or Allied detachment but you cannot take multiple of what would be considered a Primary detachment.

There are a few positives.

Reactions for one, if you have weapons that can return fire you can do so with the entire units. A trio of predators with Voltkite for example will do a lot of damage on the return fire.

Cost, a few tanks that are taken in squadrons do offer a discount on the additional tanks.

Buffs, If you have things like librarians or some other consuls you do get more mileage out of those buffs. For instance giving a tank squadron precision shots then using defensive/sponsons weapons to try and pop the sargents in multiple infantry squads is an option.

Allocation and armor facing perhaps? The tank owner gets to decide which order the shots are allocated so you can reduce how many tanks are impaired after being hit by a volley. A single tank unit just needs one shaken result to be reduced in efficiency that turn.

Perhaps dreadnaut talon is part of the reason dreads are so strong? I dunno, they're a bit too powerful atm.

hadn't thought about reactions, still getting used to that, a triplet of las cannon predators could make a mess reacting

the toying with armour facings is something I remember from 40k and thinking was perhaps one of the most gamey things in the game

Sadly tanks can only react with str 6 weapons or lower. Admittedly it is another strength dreads have over tanks.

For the most part armor facing is about putting your highest facing towards the highest str enemy.

cody.d. wrote:
Sadly tanks can only react with str 6 weapons or lower. Admittedly it is another strength dreads have over tanks.

For the most part armor facing is about putting your highest facing towards the highest str enemy.

RAGE

Why GW Why!!!

if anyone needs me I'll be under the desk, cuddling a predator, crying, both of us crying

I'd be fine with a -1 to the BS on bigger guns reacting

I mean IRL tanks and armored divisions tend to work together, but for Warhammer I feel it would be because you can keep them in the same defensive or offensive position and still have a chance if you "lose one"?

With detachments I feel GW wants to make it "easier" if you say have Beast Snaggaz with normal Orks or perhaps Chaos daemons accompanying Legionnaires into battle?

I think it make sense for Deffkoptas, but not for dragstas.

You're getting the wrong end of the stick here buddy. This is the Horus Heresy forum and people are talking about that game, not 40k.

leopard wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
Sadly tanks can only react with str 6 weapons or lower. Admittedly it is another strength dreads have over tanks.

For the most part armor facing is about putting your highest facing towards the highest str enemy.

RAGE

Why GW Why!!!

if anyone needs me I'll be under the desk, cuddling a predator, crying, both of us crying

To be fair it works pretty well. If I could react with my 4 auto/las pred squadrons with a return fire .. I don't think there'd be much of a game.

A 3 model all-volkite predator squadron can put out some serious hurt on infantry and aircraft with reactions.

Also remember you can still make move reactions. Doing an advance with 4 predators and ramming infantry that get too close is pretty nice, or using them to block lines of sight to your infantry (normally better with land raiders since preds being exposed to a charge is normally bad news)

Withdraw with a 6" move often leaves enemy units out in the open with nothing to charge suddenly, sitting ducks for your str8/9 next turn, and then the legion specific reaction for white scars with predator squadrons often let's you move close to your entire army if your setup is done right.