Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I know there's been quite a bit on stacking modifiers already, but there two with Dark Angels I'm not sure about. As I understand it neither is covered by the "Duplicated Core Abilities" from the rules commentary, so I'd like some opinions:

1. The +1 OC from Astartes Banner. The Deathwing Command Squad has a Deathwing Ancient in it and the ability:

Astartes Banner: While this unit contains an Ancient, add 1 to the Objective Control characteristic of its models.

They can be joined by an Ancient in Terminator Armour, which has the ability:

Astartes Banner: While this model is leading a unit, add 1 to the Objective Control characteristic of models in that unit.

Does the unit get +2 or +1 to their OC? The abilites having the same name but different wording makes this even more confusing to me.


2. Damage reduction for Deathwing Knights. Those have the ability:

Inner Circle: Each time an attack is allocated to a model in this unit, subtract 1 from the Damage characteristic of that attack.

Dark Angels have this stratagem:

UNBREAKABLE LINES
UNFORGIVEN TASK FORCE – BATTLE TACTIC
STRATAGEM
Countless assaults have faltered against
the unbreakable ceramite wall that is the
Unforgiven standing their ground.
WHEN: Your opponent’s Charge phase, just
after an enemy unit ends a Charge move.
TARGET: One Adeptus Astartes unit from
your army within Engagement Range of
that enemy unit.
EFFECT: Until the end of the turn, each
time an attack is allocated to a model in
your unit, subtract 1 from the Damage
characteristic of that attack.

Can you reduce damage by 2 when the Knights get charged?

Generally speaking, you cannot benefit from the same ability twice. Since both rules are Astartes Banner, you can only benefit from one of them. I am finding difficulty finding a direct reference to this in the rules for unit abilities that are not Aura abilities or Core abilities. I think this is an oversight, not an intentional allowance of these abilities to duplicate.

As for Modifiers from different abilities/rules, those do stack. However, the net Modifier for a Hit Roll or Wound Roll can never be outside of +/-1. Therefore the second -1 modifier is only useful to offset bonuses to the Wound Roll.

There is no general rule saying that. You cannot benefit from core abilities twice but these are not core abilities so yes you can benefit from multiple instances of them. Whether or not its an oversite that's mute thats RAI and none can prove it wasn't intentional and RAW their is no rule saying you don't benefit so you do.

Yes Damage modifiers stack subject to the caveat that damage cannot be reduced below 1

The rules do say you cannot benefit from duplicate Aura's also. They fail to mention what happens for duplicate, non-core rules. HIPWI is as an oversight rather than a loophole.

Thankyou for that irrelevance - its not an aura.

And HIWPI is to actually follow the rules rather than do what Alextroy does and make it up and claim magically to know what was intended or (or unintended in this case) the rules here are clear in writing Alextroy just doesn't like them. It could be an oversight it might be intentional no one can know but the RAW is clear it doesn't say they don't stack so it does and we are back to the usual standard of RAW trumping RAI unless RAW doesn't work.

Personally I feel as though they most likely intended it to be one or the other. So most minus 1 damage or +1 to OC.

However, that being said. RAW I think it would stack. So if I was at a tourni I'd play this as stacking unless the TO states otherwise then I'm happy to accept a TO over ride.