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Greetings, been running a 13th black crusade campaign for a fair few years now, we are currently in the Agripinaa system and fighting on Lelithar .... This is a liberation strike some years (ten approx)after the fall of Cadia. Looking for the remnants of the forces previously on the planet. E.g Fire-Wasp Legio and the Death Spector's chapter.... The Inquisition task force includes many regiments of the lost world of Macharia in the Cadia system, The Night Watch chapter first and second company(all 1st gen marines) And the Osedax titan Legio . I have finally got round to collecting a full Primus army . This needs to be a force of the time and area. So the question stands ???which would be the best option for an Astartes Praeses chapter to be replaced/reinforced by such a force ???I think the Subjugators maybe? But again I ask you all for your input??

The general idea is that most Loyalist Chapters received either Greyshield reinforcements or the technology to create Primaris. The combat zones around Cadia and what was the Eye of Terror would have been a priority for confinement so the chances are high that all of the remaining Praeses were reinforced or new Chapters were founded to guard the region.

I'm grateful for your interest and input and I totally agree with your statement. Was also after finding out more about which of the Praeses chapter's had their arses handed to them in the fluff.....So far I've only found the White Consuls and the Subjugators that get a true kicking in the fluff.

If I may hijack the thread slightly, are previously understrength chapters generally assumed to have been restocked with primaris?

For instance, Salamanders seem to have been perpetually understrength since before the Heresy, and they also seem to be considered to have a pretty clean track record. Are they still understrength for some reason, or are they confirmed to have had their numbers filled out by primaris?

The Salamanders were changed some time ago to deliberately only have 7 Companies to represent the 7 Sanctuary Cities of Nocturne rather than never recovering from the Dropsite Massacre because the latter never made much sense.

As for other combat depleted Chapters, many but not all received Greyshield reinforcements. For example, the Crimson Fists famously received aid from Guilliman himself while the Mantis Warriors received only the Primaris technology and no new Astartes.

Much of what you say about the Sally's is a good point, but moot. As I'm looking for a pretext for a force of Primus to show up only few years after the fall,o,Cadia in and around the eye in chapter colour instead of the livery of the unnumbered son's. Hence why I'm looking for Praeses chapter's that took a kicking and would need immediate reinforcement due to their strategic position.

The Black Consuls seem like the strongest candidate- they were essentially wiped out fighting Chaos forces (Iron Warriors and Word Bearers) in 455.M41, with only a few scattered survivors on special deployments. However, the Chapter was a 2nd Founding Ultramarines successor with very close ties to their parent Chapter, and are known to have received Primaris reinforcements from Guilliman. Essentially the entire Chapter will consist of Primaris members as very few Firstborn remain.

Lexicanum link.

Firstborn:

Primaris:

kippax wrote:
Much of what you say about the Sally's is a good point, but moot.

It was for the other poster.

As I'm looking for a pretext for a force of Primus to show up only few years after the fall,o,Cadia in and around the eye in chapter colour instead of the livery of the unnumbered son's. Hence why I'm looking for Praeses chapter's that took a kicking and would need immediate reinforcement due to their strategic position.

The Black Consuls were refounded during the Ultima Founding and retook the Chapter's original homeworld while the White Consuls lost their homeworld, Sabatine, in the aftermath of the opening of the Great Rift and much of their Chapter to a combined assault by the Word Bearers and Death Guard (you can read about it in the Lords of Silence book).
The Subjugators also took heavy casualties during the 13th Black Crusade with the 1st and 5th Companies losing large numbers and the 3rd Company being wiped out to a man after self-destructing a star fortress. The Chapter lost 168 Astartes in the conflict overall.
There are also seven unaccounted-for Chapters in the list of Praeses so you could make your own Chapter as well.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
If I may hijack the thread slightly, are previously understrength chapters generally assumed to have been restocked with primaris?

For instance, Salamanders seem to have been perpetually understrength since before the Heresy, and they also seem to be considered to have a pretty clean track record. Are they still understrength for some reason, or are they confirmed to have had their numbers filled out by primaris?

So, generally if you are a space marine chapter and have taken serious losses in the 42nd Millenium, you're gonna get filled up with Guillimarines (Primaris). You literally have no choice in the matter or the Custodes will team-kill your entire chapter.

I'd imagine with them being a first founding chapter that they'd of been amongst the very first to receive Primaris reinforcements. Also, Salamanders being understrength is a basically myth GW created to give Chaos Astartes a pseudo-win. Especially, when they (and any other faction for that matter) can magically regenerate their lost numbers as long as the plot demands it.

 Abanshee wrote:

I'd imagine with them being a first founding chapter that they'd of been amongst the very first to receive Primaris reinforcements. Also, Salamanders being understrength is a basically myth GW created to give Chaos Astartes a pseudo-win. Especially, when they (and any other faction for that matter) can magically regenerate their lost numbers as long as the plot demands it.

How do you mean? I thought the Salamanders being notably understrength even compared to other Istvaan legions like the Raven Guard and Iron Hands was due to:
A.) Already being notably understrength from even before Vulkan was found due to constantly being given the extra-dangerous jobs.
B.) Only recruiting from Nocturne whereas RG (I think?) recruit from various worlds.

The initial (i.e. old) reason for the Salamanders being an understrength Chapter was that they took so many casualties at the Dropsite Massacre that they never fully recovered. However, this was before the Heresy series and larger changes to the Legions overall which meant that story no longer worked without some extremely weird shenanigans going on for 10k years.

With the newer background, the Salamanders were one of the Trefoil Legions, alongside the VIth (Space Wolves) and XXth (Alpha Legion), that were used for special missions. The XVIIIth showed that they were remarkably resilient and determined in battle, traits the Emperor used to break one of the last great holdouts on Terra. The assault on the Tempest Galleries brought the 26,000-strong Legion down to only 1000 Legionnaires and the while the Legion was rebuilt it was never deployed as one again until Vulkan was discovered, instead being deployed in rear-guard actions or as rapid strike forces.

When Vulkan reunited with the Imperium he brought the slowly dying Legion back to life and reformed it according to the culture of Nocture. The Legion maintained 7 Chapters to represent the sanctuary cities of Nocture and totaled around 34 companies prior to Isstvan V. However, the Salamanders, alongside the Raven Guard, committed much of their strength to the Dropsite Massacre, and with the disappearance of Vulkan, the Legion was largely unable to rebuild its forces during the Heresy while Corax was able to reach Terra and use the Emperor's technology to rebuild a sizable portion of his Legion and much of the Iron Hands Legion was not present on Isstvan to begin with.

The aftermath of the Heresy saw the Salamanders in a poor state, unable to produce any Successors (at least none that were acknowledged) and unable to muster a force greater than 7 companies. Vulkan was allowed a deviation from the Codex standards by Guilliman due to the culture of Nocturne alongside the lack of forces the Chapter could muster.

A couple of additional points:

The 7 Salamander companies are a bit overstrength at 120 marines each, so at full strength the Chapter has ~840 marines or ~ eight and a half codex companies. I think the decision to go with 7 companies specifically was to maintain the link with the sanctuary cities, otherwise they probably would have taken an organisation with 8 or 9 companies. Salamanders battle companies have an extra tactical/battleline squad and an extra devastator/fire support squad. Apparently an 8th company was beginning to be raised in 980.M41, but I don't think anything has come of that plot hook.

During the Great Crusade, Salamanders geneseed was noted as having a very low implant failure rate on Nocturne citizens (in part due to their extreme hardiness), but the Salamanders did not use some of the rapid-induction techniques used by some other legions. I am not sure if this persists into the Age of the Imperium- Salamanders geneseed in the 41st millennium is noted as having a very high mutation rate. Whether this merely relates to their hyperpigmentation (an adaptation that renders them highly resistant to radiation and appears to have been a deliberate trait of the original geneseed rather than a mutation) or something else is unknown. Either way, the primary bottleneck on numbers pre and during the Heresy is majority* recruitment from Nocturne with slow-but-sure methods.

*Some recruits continued to be sourced from Terra and Proximal.