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So many firstborns are done being 40k tourney models...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/24/space-marine-range-update-bikes-land-speeders-and-more-are-soon-zooming-off-into-the-sunset/

So if someone showed up with a WYSIWYG force of mark7 armored marines to using in a HH game... how'd you feel about that? Just curious. I have 2 full companies of 30k, so I'll have my pure FW forces for my games. But I'm wondering how someone with a massive c2000 white scar bike army is going to use their models, and so on

Most of the HH players I know would probably play with you, but they would 100% bitch about it afterwards and complain that they didn't enjoy the game and that you were a lame opponent for bringing 40k marines to the game instead of committing to playing a proper HH army.

It depends. If the individual has the models and is simply looking to learn the system before adding to their army with HH units and kits then I'd be absolutely fine with it.

However, while there were many different stop-gap Power Armour patterns used during the Heresy if someone didn't have any ideas of making a more era-appropriate force, I'd be disappointed. HH is not a refuge for people who don't like Primaris.

Exceptions concerning money and time are not considered for this second part because I'm not an ass but if someone has the time and money to be doing HH then I'd expect to see some sort of investment in that.

"It depends" has always been the correct answer, none of this is exactly new.

Some of the "40K Oldmarines" models have perfectly fine rules in HH. Land Speeders, bikes, scouts, dreadnoughts and most character models are usable without problems - some restrictions might apply though. Most people will have no issues whatsoever if the models are "heresified", i.e. no Imperial Aquila outside of Emperors Children or late-Heresy Loyalists, armour marks appropriate to the time period, and all that.

Other models might see "counts as" use. The Striker could easily stand in as a Scorpius Whirlwind, and the Thunderfire Cannon as a Rapier. I guess this would be down to proper communication and the person on the other side of the table being fine with it.

Just plonking down your regular 40K army will get eyebrows raised, and for good reasons. HH is not 40K, and outside of test/introduction games one should put some effort into having an appropriate army. This will of course vary from group to group, but overall "just use your 40K Marines in HH" will not get you far anywhere.

In the longer term, fridging these kits probably makes it even less likely that people will turn up to HH games with WH40k armies. As the Primaris range replaces the firstborn (about time!), people will start to shelve their firstborn (my Ultramarines have been in their box since Marines switched to 32mm bases). There seems to be strong resistance to using Primaris models in HH, unless they are heavily converted. And with no new WH40k rules for HH models, the 2 games are likely to become even more distinct. Which IMO is a good thing - provided GW plug the gaps in the HH plastic range.

It's weird to see kits like the Landspeeder go away. It's been part of the game for so long. I wonder what the long-term plan for venerable kits like the Land Raider is?

I'd be perfectly fine with it, personally. And I wouldn't "bitch" afterwards, as some loudmouths like to proclaim, without any evidence, I might add.

 Snord wrote:
It's weird to see kits like the Landspeeder go away. It's been part of the game for so long. I wonder what the long-term plan for venerable kits like the Land Raider is?

The Land Speeder is one of those headscratchers for me, as it would be so easy to keep it around for HH use.

The Land Raider has a "proper HH kit" in plastic already, but the 40K version has a variety of weapon options not available in there. It also is not yet "replaced" by anthing in the Primaris range - I doubt the LR will go away before this comes around, as right now it has a niche of its own in gameplay terms.

The Landspeeder that get's legended is a scheme that is found during the scouring era.

If you want to field a scouring era force he is more than adequate enough. The problem is the marines in it are MK VII, which is a hard pass for many HH players.

IoW, learn the armor marks and maybee modify some models and nobody will take issue. MK VII though is suboptimal.

As others have put it, put the effort in since HH is more like a historical and everyone will be happy. Ignoring of course as others have brought up time and money constraints or if you merely want to test something.

Blood Angels, White Scars and Imperial Fists themed around the seige of terra are the only armies that can really get away with using MKvii armour. I plan on using it for a couple of squads of inducti.
But it is pretty easy to swap a few bits around and use it as mkv. I have a bunch of landspeeders converted up but not painted for my white scars in this fashion.

The land speeder is fine to use if equiped with the right weapons.

Scouts are a bit odd, as they don't really fit in but were listed as HH kits when 2.0 came out.

Hopefully we will get plastic bikes, attack bikes and landspeeders for 30K to replace the now squatted kits.

 Lobokai wrote:
So many firstborns are done being 40k tourney models...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/24/space-marine-range-update-bikes-land-speeders-and-more-are-soon-zooming-off-into-the-sunset/

So if someone showed up with a WYSIWYG force of mark7 armored marines to using in a HH game... how'd you feel about that? Just curious. I have 2 full companies of 30k, so I'll have my pure FW forces for my games. But I'm wondering how someone with a massive c2000 white scar bike army is going to use their models, and so on

To answer this question you would need to see the models first. Has the person put the effort in to at least some degree in order to fit them into 30K? If the answer is no and he just transferred them from 40K to 30K without modifications then those models are not welcome.

I think it makes more sense to play older editions of 40k with OOP 40k models than 30k with OOP 40k models.

I'd play against 40K firstborn in HH any day, but nobody in my circles wants to play it at all

I find it strange how narrow-minded 30K players seem to be. They have locked down the mighty setting of the far future even more into a rigid boring story than current 40K, making the universe even smaller. Heck, soon even Necromunda is a more diverse and rich setting than 30K

I'd be absolutely fine with it and woud enjoy the game regardless of the armour mark. 30k is still a world filled with 'your dudes' and people who rivet count or get upset 'It's not appropriate armour' forgets how vast the heresy was and something can happen somewhere if thats what you want your legion to do, go for it

30k is not actually a historical, GW have proven time and again things change and unexpected things happen, just because some people don't like your armour mark doesn't mean it wasn't possible/ isn't fine and enjoy playing a great system and hopefully great community!

I think it's more strange that people like yourself call HH players narrow-minded, tauist.

Everyone who has said no to 40k Marines in HH in this thread has also been very clear that they would play against that army if the player was trying out the game and setting before investing in some HH units while also being clear they wouldn't discriminate based on factors like income and life circumstances.

You're actively encouraging more resentment and division between hobbyists when there isn't any there.

Another thing that just popped into my head. Restricting ones self to just reusing 40k models is massively restricting. No Contemptors, Leviathans, Legion units in many cases, most tanks or weapons and heck you wouldn't even be able to run 40k Tacticals as anything but Veterans which in turn restricts your Rites of War. Unless the player just proxies every unit as something else or with other equipment (which won't fly in my experience) they're basically just ignoring a huge chunk of the Legion army list and equipment.

Why not just keep playing 40k with those models tho?

 Gert wrote:

..
You're actively encouraging more resentment and division between hobbyists when there isn't any there.

Am I now? I thought I was just giving my opinion. But guess I just dont know how to talk the talk, clearly HH is not for me

 tauist wrote:
Am I now? I thought I was just giving my opinion. But guess I just dont know how to talk the talk, clearly HH is not for me

Just because it is your opinion doesn't mean you get to be rude.

Nobody here has insulted 40k players or those who wish to use their 40k models in HH.

@tauist:
WH30k is set in a specific pseudo-historical period i.e. before the Imperium had ossified. The whole point of it is that it's a civil war, involving earlier versions of the units and equipment that feature in WH40k. If someone isn't prepared to put at least some effort into making their toy soldiers look like they belong in that period, then it's entirely understandable that there'd be resistance from players who have made the effort. I don't think anyone here is advocating the kind of gate-keeping that you see from hard-core HH players (which is basically that WH40k players who cross over to HH are transgressors on holy ground). So you're just coming across as being being deliberately inflammatory.

Anyway, considering that you think that HH is a "rigid boring story", I'm not sure why you bothered posting in this sub-forum in the first place.

The speeders, bikes, and dreads all port over fine. Theres even art of the speeders in the heresy from the card game and visions I think? Possibly also the black books. They shared the profile with the "Proteus" pattern in v1 and still work perfectly now.

I'd definitely make an effort to turn the Mk7 marines into mk5 though or atleast paint them to look heresy-approproate. Mk7 does look good in heresy with a bit of care, but it can be a bit immersion breaking at a narrative even with no effort.

In a casual game though I can't imagine people actually having a problem with it though. People are better in person than the internet suggests

I've got tonnes of these old models I plan to use in Heresy, I find the easiest way to bring them up to standard is torso swap mk 4 and mk 4/mk 6 helmets. With that and the right paint scheme they look great.

I know Heresy isn't supposed to be a refuge for people who don't like Primaris, but I have a huge soft spot for the old metal and resin marine characters and mk 7 in general. I have to restrain myself from shoe-horning them in to my Heresy army for sure.

The saddest thing with this is really the loss of the classic marine look and feel and the 5 mins to midnight setting. I'm hoping that they might bring out a scouring game/supplement when they've run out of other Heresy stuff to do which could scratch that itch. In the meantime, Oldhammer all the way

Here is how I have transferred 40K SM to 30K. There is not a single conversion to be found but rather a selection of heads, torsos and weapons to be used while others should be avoided. I also used the clan symbol of Ungavarr which is not around anymore in 40K thus eliminating them for use in modern times.

Heads:
Dedicated Iron Hands heads were used as well as predominantly Mk6 helmets. If there is a Mk7 helmet then it is one which is suitably techy by having lots of lights on.

Torso:
Anything goes apart from the Aquila icon.

Weapons:
Again avoiding the Aquila icon.

Link:
Ungavarr_Tactical_Squad_#10
https://ibb.co/album/PZPNPX

Ungavarr_Support_Squad_#10
https://ibb.co/album/zsg9zv

And yes, the Tactical squad still needs weathering.

Sure, go right ahead. Marines are marines and plenty of people used 40k marine kits to play 30k-era games before FW decided to turn the whole thing into another cash cow for GW to milk. Obsessive rivet counting and gatekeeping people who don't comply with your specific vision of how 30k marines look is toxic as hell and the people doing it aren't the people you want to engage with anyway.

People who lazily transfer 40K minis to 30K are better off playing with sticks and stones than bothering established 30K communities who treat the setting with the respect it deserves.

 Strg Alt wrote:
People who lazily transfer 40K minis to 30K are better off playing with sticks and stones than bothering established 30K communities who treat the setting with the respect it deserves.

Thank you for this excellent example of gatekeeping and acting like your aesthetic preferences are the only ones that matter.

Sorry, disagree, there's more than enough old 40k minis that can be easily converted into 30k, from plastic castellans being an even older type than the common castellax in the 30k era, therefore fitting a more dire time of the HH conflict, to marines which merly require some bits and bobs cut off.

Not doing so, is kinda lazy, not only that, there once was a time were kitbashing and converting was seen as a hobby goldstandard, and it does a community well.
Therefore having a degree of standards to facilitate that is a good thing.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:
Sure, go right ahead. Marines are marines and plenty of people used 40k marine kits to play 30k-era games before FW decided to turn the whole thing into another cash cow for GW to milk. Obsessive rivet counting and gatekeeping people who don't comply with your specific vision of how 30k marines look is toxic as hell and the people doing it aren't the people you want to engage with anyway.

But if a marine is a marine, why bother transferring to 30k, why not just keep playing 40k

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:
Sure, go right ahead. Marines are marines and plenty of people used 40k marine kits to play 30k-era games before FW decided to turn the whole thing into another cash cow for GW to milk. Obsessive rivet counting and gatekeeping people who don't comply with your specific vision of how 30k marines look is toxic as hell and the people doing it aren't the people you want to engage with anyway.

But if a marine is a marine, why bother transferring to 30k, why not just keep playing 40k

Because fwiw the 30k ruleset is atleast somewhat competent, whilest the 40k ruleset has devolved to a point where it is one step away from going back to the ocean.

Why do HH players have to accept 40k armies just because those players don't like 40k at this current point? How is that fair?

I don't make this point because I feel ownership of HH at all, because that would be weird, but why should I as a HH player of 10 years be gracious to those who only deem my favourite game worthy because they don't like Primaris or the current ruleset of 40k?

Why am I getting tarred with the same brush as sexists and racists because I think people should make an effort to support the HH community?

I think people have been pretty clear that they would accept new HH players as long as they make a modicum of effort to support the game and participate in the community rather than just jumping ship because their personal preferences aren't found in the current edition of 40k.
HH has enough moaning and bad blood without people coming over and complaining about why they don't like Primaris.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
But if a marine is a marine, why bother transferring to 30k, why not just keep playing 40k

Because this thread was asking about models which no longer have 40k rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gert wrote:
Why am I getting tarred with the same brush as sexists and racists because I think people should make an effort to support the HH community?

They are making an effort to support it. They're bringing their armies and asking to play games with you. The community is not the same as your personal aesthetic preferences and rivet counting.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:
They are making an effort to support it. They're bringing their armies and asking to play games with you. The community is not the same as your personal aesthetic preferences and rivet counting.

It's not supporting the community if they're only coming over because they don't like Primaris and the current edition of 40k which is exactly the point that is being discussed in this thread. The idea that HH is only good now because 40k isn't is extremely insulting.
Not only that, most people here have made it explicitly clear that they would be absolutely fine with someone using a 40k Marine force as a test for the system before expanding into a proper Heresy force.

Regardless why does any of that give you the right to tell me that I'm the same as racists and sexists because I think that using a 40k army with no HH stuff isn't a good idea?