Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

With Firstborn gradually making its way out of the 40k range, what chances do people think there are of an updated Mk7 kit making its way into 30k? I realise Mk7 only really made an appearance at the siege of terra and only for a few (loyalist) legions there, but there's no reason GW can't massage the lore slightly to allow other legions to gain access to a limited number of the suits, whether through stolen shipments for the traitors, or secret supply missions to loyalists. And, of course, there's no reason not to carry 30k onwards after the events of the siege of terra, as plenty of fighting still went on with the fleeing traitors and Mk7 was more widespread.

Or do people think Mk7 might make a reappearance in 40k, somehow? It seems a shame to consign such an iconic and beloved armour mark to history/the dustbin, and IMO somewhat shortsighted on GW's part to just let it fade away like it seems to be doing. After all, the armour served the imperium for ten thousand years after the Horus Heresy - virtually the entire history of the 40k universe.

With the new Mk3 kit basically being a reskin of the Mk6 kit and Mk4 likely to follow suit, I see no real reason why GW can't just do the same with Mk7 if they want to. I'm not sure I'd like that all that much - 4 armour marks all with the same basic poses seems really low effort and pretty boring on an armywide scale - but it should be easy enough for GW to do. An interesting possibility that choice would give rise to, if GW do go with all the kits being the same pose with otherwise interchangeable components, is they might just release a Mk5 upgrade kit, rather than a full kit, so people can bash the different armour marks together with new studded pads/helmets/etc, and make their own Mk5 marines. That would certainly be a fluffy way to build Mk5.

Apologies if this topic has been raised before, I did search but couldn't find anything.

keep in mind that 1st edition Space Marine, there HH started, used Mk6 in the initial box and Mk7 for the add on boxes

I dont think theres any real community demand amongst HH's core audience for a mk7 kit, and GW will probably make a lot more money investing their time and money into a long list of things before mk7 becomes worthwhile for them to bother with.

leopard wrote:
keep in mind that 1st edition Space Marine, there HH started, used Mk6 in the initial box and Mk7 for the add on boxes

That's a good point! (although the Mk7 in Epic Space Marine 2nd edition didn't bear a great deal of resemblance to the Mk7 in 2nd edition and onwards 40k...). The lore has changed extensively since those days, of course. So you think Mk7 is going to make an appearance in HH, then?

chaos0xomega wrote:
I dont think theres any real community demand amongst HH's core audience for a mk7 kit, and GW will probably make a lot more money investing their time and money into a long list of things before mk7 becomes worthwhile for them to bother with.

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I'd like a Mk7 kit!

I've just kitbashed a fairly big Raven Guard force and I'd like to do a Scars force at some point in the future including Mk7 marines, but I'm very aware of the clock ticking on the current firstborn kits and am worried they might disappear before I get around to it. Of course, I'm not thinking GW will get round to a Mk7 kit all that quickly - there's still Mk3 to release and Mk4 to update, plus potentially Mk5 if they decide to, but I just feel it's a shame for Mk7 to go out of the setting completely, which it seems likely it will in the near future.

Out of interest, what do you class as "HH's core audience"?

dunno if it will, just pointing out there is no real reason for it not to

some how I doubt it though as GW seems to want to sell the same plastic space dollies multiple times to use in the two games

 CancelledApocalypse wrote:


Out of interest, what do you class as "HH's core audience"?

People that are primarily interested in playing something that is distinctly separate from 40k.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 CancelledApocalypse wrote:


Out of interest, what do you class as "HH's core audience"?

People that are primarily interested in playing something that is distinctly separate from 40k.

That's the point. Too many people are like "I payed for my toys so now I'm going to use them in this game too" but the point of HH and treating it "historically", unlike 40k, is to have another game, one that looks and feels different. What's the point of bringing 40k models into 30k ? It's making 30k loose its flavor. But GW already mixed the ranges with some 30k units coming to 40k (cataphractii for example), and the focus in 30k has shifted to the siege of Terra so, while not likely, I could see GW selling Mkvii for HH

to be fair relic terminators are really the only time they "mixed the ranges" and that was before HH was really it's own "thing" plastic wise, we're seeing with 10th edition 40k specificly a definate "split the lines" mentality (this proably is good as GW doesn't need the complication of further bloating the marine range for 40k with old heresy stuff )

Well, there is a (mostly) Mk.7 kit you can buy right now, get it while you still can.

Assuming they actually move the HH over into the Scouring era, why would GW replace this one? It has a pretty perfect mix of Mk.7 and older marks. Perfect insofar as to represent the armour the Loyalists would most likely field: a majority of new Mk.7 suits mixed with whatever had survived the Heresy and/or could be salvaged previously.

I hope this does not happen though, for there are so many more important things to cover. Updates of Mk.2 and Mk.4, without doing them as yet another reskin of the Mk.6/3 poses? A modular Mk.5 supplementary kit? All of this would make more sense for HH.

As for the Siege of Terra: a reasonable approach would be to do the Mk.7 models in resin.

At this point I'm pretty pessimistic about further power armour kits. Both in existence and execution.

But STLs for Mk4 in the new scale and reimagined to fit the new aesthetic were released this week so...

I find it interesting that people still seem to believe that because BL is doing the Siege novels, the HH game has progressed to the Siege.
Is it because Mk6 is the face of HH2?

If 40K will be all Primaris, alll the time from now on, any MKVII reissues will be bound to release under the HH brand.

The Space Marine heroes series are thin-legged and have larger arms and heads than they would have if resculpted, but they can probably be used for converting in-scale MKVII in the meantime

I mean it's not "now on" yet. I'd wager it'll be 12th before every single Firstborn kit is gone and by the time it reaches that, Primaris will have evolved rules and models-wise to the point where the difference will be in models only.

 Gert wrote:
I mean it's not "now on" yet. I'd wager it'll be 12th before every single Firstborn kit is gone and by the time it reaches that, Primaris will have evolved rules and models-wise to the point where the difference will be in models only.

Ding, ding, ding. Winner: Gert.

Yep the current wave is largely "Firstborn units but with Primaris sculpts"

 lord_blackfang wrote:
At this point I'm pretty pessimistic about further power armour kits. Both in existence and execution.

But STLs for Mk4 in the new scale and reimagined to fit the new aesthetic were released this week so...

Spoiler:

Are those legit, or a leak or something? I hadn't seen those. because while I'm not a big fan of the flared ankles they've been going for I like this redesign vastly more than the mk3 one.

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
At this point I'm pretty pessimistic about further power armour kits. Both in existence and execution.

But STLs for Mk4 in the new scale and reimagined to fit the new aesthetic were released this week so...

Spoiler:

Are those legit, or a leak or something? I hadn't seen those. because while I'm not a big fan of the flared ankles they've been going for I like this redesign vastly more than the mk3 one.

They're third party STLs for 3d printing

 Gert wrote:
I find it interesting that people still seem to believe that because BL is doing the Siege novels, the HH game has progressed to the Siege.
Is it because Mk6 is the face of HH2?

Yeah it's mystifying to me. Nothing that GW has released for the game thus far has anything at all to do with the Siege of Terra, yet I keep encountering people who think the game is going to get Siege of Terra content imminently

The cinematic trailer does reference '...the skies of Terra...' so there is presumably a bit of Siege stuff going on, at least according to Horus' narration.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
The cinematic trailer does reference '...the skies of Terra...' so there is presumably a bit of Siege stuff going on, at least according to Horus' narration.

It also references the Galactic Rim. It's a speech of Horus's intentions dude.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah it's mystifying to me. Nothing that GW has released for the game thus far has anything at all to do with the Siege of Terra, yet I keep encountering people who think the game is going to get Siege of Terra content imminently

On a technicality, the Siege of Cthonia's main event (i.e. Ashurdon invading Cthonia) does take place around the same time as the Siege of Terra as a sort of mirror of events. But considering it's not about Terra and FW doesn't always release things in timeline order for example, Prospero happens before Isstvan and Signus happens at the same time but both were released two books after the Isstvan trilogy, I hardly think that counts.
I think people have just looked at the fact the HH box art has the Fists/Sons on it and assumed Terra is the focus.
It is weird we're over a year in and the notion has prevailed for some reason.

but then you have the exemplary battles book, which will be covering events that occurred earlier in the Heresy - which as you said is because FW/GW isn't really releasing stuff in chronological order or telling an advancing narrative with the game.

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
At this point I'm pretty pessimistic about further power armour kits. Both in existence and execution.

But STLs for Mk4 in the new scale and reimagined to fit the new aesthetic were released this week so...

Spoiler:

Are those legit, or a leak or something? I hadn't seen those. because while I'm not a big fan of the flared ankles they've been going for I like this redesign vastly more than the mk3 one.

I'm not a fan of the disco pants either, but I guess this is what we have if we want to look "GW legal" now

People seem to think I've said we reached the Siege of Terra for some reason. I never said we had, I was actually positing the hypothetical that Mk7 might make an appearance before Terra (by massaging the lore slightly) and, if not, I was asking the question would we get a Mk7 heresy kit eventually.

The point of the post was to bemoan Mk7 armour leaving the game entirely and wonder if it's coming departure (I really don't think it's going to be another two editions of 40k before they go, what with the rapidity at which kits have recently been leaving the line - we've had two batches of withdrawals in just a few months) might herald a new kit for HH at some point in the future.

Not every post is in reply to yours and others in the thread have brought up the notion that Mk7 makes sense because GW has moved the point of reference for HH to the Siege of Terra, something that isn't correct.

With regard to Mk7 as a whole, it's not going to get redone for HH because as many have said, it's not a pattern of armour noted for being Heresy-Era.
Seeing as we've already got Primaris helms in Mk6 and Mk7 style, I'd be willing to bet the inevitable Primaris Tacticals will have some armour parts like that.

I respectfully disagree with the "inevitable" Primaris Tacticals (wasn't that the point of Intercessors, anyway?) - it'll be a really sad state of affairs if GW introduced Primaris and added a ton of new units into the game for them to simply revert to type with the original Space Marine army list only in different styled armour. And even if I'm wrong, it's still not the same as having Mk7 marines. You can't, for example, use a Primaris Tactical in a battle that takes place in any of the 40k setting prior to Cawl making his appearance, and a Primaris MkX suit with a Mk7 head is still a Primaris MkX suit. As things stand, when the current Mk7 kits are withdrawn from the range (I personally believe it'll happen within the next two years at the outside), that will mean every armour mark will be represented in at least one GW game except the most iconic. (Errant doesn't count, btw.)

I also disagree with Mk7 not being a "noted" heresy-era armour - it literally appeared at the culmination of the whole heresy, and became the standard armour mark from that point on. I think the only reason it's not seen as a heresy mark is because HH the game hasn't got to the point where the armour can be introduced. As mentioned above, the original epic space marine game featured Mk7 (well, second edition, but it came really quickly after first), albeit that the Mk7 marines in that game looked very different to the Mk7 marines that followed in the 40k system.

As much as I am a fan of the Primaris sculpts, I prefer my games to be set in ~m38.

I'd be very down for a "new" mkvii kit, but they need to get I & V out of the way first.

 CancelledApocalypse wrote:
I respectfully disagree with the "inevitable" Primaris Tacticals (wasn't that the point of Intercessors, anyway?) - it'll be a really sad state of affairs if GW introduced Primaris and added a ton of new units into the game for them to simply revert to type with the original Space Marine army list only in different styled armour.

You can disagree all you want, but they just did Primaris Indomitus Terminators, Primaris Assault Marines and Primaris Scouts. The writing's on the wall: Firstborn units are staying and getting new sculpts and the codex will forever be larger than the next four factions combined.

To be fair they are stripping out some superfluous units as they go which will thin out the codex size.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/24/space-marine-range-update-bikes-land-speeders-and-more-are-soon-zooming-off-into-the-sunset

I kinda have a theory that they'll eventually release another round of Badab War content where Mk7 and some of the legacy SM kit can find a new home. Whether its part of the 30k ruleset, or 40k ruleset, or becomes a game of its own, etc. I don't know.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 CancelledApocalypse wrote:
I respectfully disagree with the "inevitable" Primaris Tacticals (wasn't that the point of Intercessors, anyway?) - it'll be a really sad state of affairs if GW introduced Primaris and added a ton of new units into the game for them to simply revert to type with the original Space Marine army list only in different styled armour.

You can disagree all you want, but they just did Primaris Indomitus Terminators, Primaris Assault Marines and Primaris Scouts. The writing's on the wall: Firstborn units are staying and getting new sculpts and the codex will forever be larger than the next four factions combined.

The new 'assualt marines' are jump pack assault intercessors. We already have standard intercessors in the 'tactical' role, why would GW double up on that with 'tactical intercessors'? Yeah, I know, GW keep releasing marine units that are very slightly different in terms of flavour, so maybe I'm just wrong and they actually have no respect for the range or their player base...

Scouts and terminators are a special case. Scouts perform a specific role in the lore that hasn't been addressed in the primaris range until now. Terminators are their own brand of iconic and star in a separate game systerm (and plenty of video games) that none of the heavy armoured primaris units are suitable for. Could you imagine Space Hulk with centurions waddling down the corridors?

chaos0xomega wrote:
I kinda have a theory that they'll eventually release another round of Badab War content where Mk7 and some of the legacy SM kit can find a new home. Whether its part of the 30k ruleset, or 40k ruleset, or becomes a game of its own, etc. I don't know.

That's an interesting idea! Like an intermediary system between 30k and 40k. I kinda doubt they'd be able to sustain and support a third system, though, but if they were to do that, I wonder if they'd return to some of the zany paint schemes of the rogue trader days?

The absence of special and heavy weapons in Intercessor units prevents them from being a suitable replacement for Tactical marine squads. I had imagined that Sternguard Intercessors would end up having the special/heavy weapon options needed to be a more 1:1 replacement for Tactical Squads, but that does not appear to be the case.