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How do!

Hopefully a rapid fire one, and not my usual verbal midden.

But I think we can all agree Orks in the background are great. The greatest thing since sliced heretics.

Whilst utterly alien in approach to everything and everyone else? They are if nothing a surprisingly stable society. Everyone knows and kinda accepts their place within it, knowing they’re only one good punch up be bracket from ascending or descending a step.

Yet it’s their tek that fascinates me. In a setting of technological stagnation, Orks are noted for their rough and ready and ‘have you tried believing it’ll work’ approach.

And so we see all their war machines as actually…a bit crap, unreliable, and occasionally a work of absolute genius. But it’s that first bit, the ‘bit crap’ I want to address.

See, other than Ghaz and possibly other Warlords and Warbosses (and to differing degrees), it seems Ork can’t, perhaps won’t, think about more than the next glorious punch up. Which would mean, unlike the Imperium who make inordinate efforts to recover, repair and maintain ancient things, or the Eldar who just seem stuck in a rut of ‘we can make it new, but what’s innovation, precious?’, the Orks really don’t care if their buggy, trukk or whatever makes it through.

If it does? It’s clearly well good. If not, you’re either all perished and ded, or the Orks won the battle, and so you can scrounge up enough scrap, Teef, and guns to go get it tinkered with and repaired and made betterer. And the owner will keep getting it tinkered with by the Meks until they’re dead, it’s utterly obliterated (and so also they’re dead), or it becomes so snazzy it can’t be destroyed (until it is, see ‘they’re dead).

What a glorious incarnation of short termism. What a fantastical life view. Short and brutal for most, but for those who survive, ever more fun. Especially when that flash git over there gets stomped. Double especially when that flash git over there gets stomped outside his wheels, so you can nick them.

Orks. What a species!

Oh No, they let the doc slip out from his cell!

Mostly agreed that a thread to praise the orks is a fun idea.

Waaagh!

I'd say Orks actually have affection for their fings. Be it Uthak's princess, or Grizguts shoota for which he killed his earlier self to have two, or Mozrogs White squig, or Daisy in DoW2. However, Orks don’t worry about losses (either of equipment, fellow boyz and grots) for long which makes them the happiest Species.

The "their tech works on belief!" thing hasn't actually been definitively stated anywhere though, it's an in-universe theory from some of the Mechanicus, that typically has some caveats that make it questionable when it's mentioned.

Like, the piece of lore that first mentioned it in 3rd edition was from a guy who was outright stated to "speculate too much" and he was basing his idea on conjecture.

I really love how the skirmish game Gorkamorka gave us the whole Mad Max/ Dieselpunk look we currently have- and the Red Gobbo, but the game got relegated to the bargain bin pretty quickly. Old 80's/ 90's ork models and aesthetics... did not age well:



I loved how in "Prophet of da Waaagh" Nate Crowley describes Ghaz's old back banner to a "T". Scale creep is one thing, but by base size, it looks like old Ghaz would only come up to 2.0's waist, and 3.0's knees!

Anyhoo- I love Orks because they are the only ones having fun in 40k. All other races' cultures are on the decline (Or, in case of Tau- woefully naïve) but Orks were made for the ass-kicking business, and business is booming!

I do miss the Kultur rules, but hopefully the codex next year will change that, and add some more new models. (He sez, converting an optimus prime into a battlewagon/ Morkanaut..)

But the authors of black library also have fun and the audiobooks are great! I especially like Mike Brooks and Guy Haley, who have continuing characters and add to the background. Some have even gone beyond "This is a 40k novel, so we need some Marines to kill Orks" and given more character to the Orks vs. the old giant mass of green.

3 Things automatically say WH40k to me: a Servo skull, a Space Marine (as they are the posterboys) and any Ork metal glyph. From any one of those, you can get the flavor of the setting: that it's futuristic medieval fantasy/ scifi.

I find them especially interesting as a species because their mindset and outlook on life is so alien to us.

They don’t just love fighting, they [i]need[i] to fight, just as we need to eat, drink, breathe and procreate. It’s so ingrained into them, they simply cannot conceive that other species don’t necessarily enjoy a punch up.

Their Oddboyz are idiot savants, yet capable of creating things which utterly baffle other species. And are still capable of innovation.

Their overall approach of “if you’re ‘ard enough, you’ll survive” also extends to their slaves. In that an argument can be made that they just don’t understand suffering the way other species do. And so their cruelty is more a by-product of their culture, rather than a concerted, deliberate effort to make someone else’s life awful. In that argument, the Ork just cannot conceive of someone being broke in spirit, or not wanting to fight back.

Two vids I like are How Orks saved my Life. and Ork Zen mastery, both by Gajin Goomba- which, as I discussed on another thread, Mario Goombas= orks. They're tusked fungus!

At any rate, apart from the fact I wear blue all the time, I chose Deathskullz because they are looters. It's the long running joke of "any vehicle is an Ork vehicle". But, I also take that to heart with kitbashing and models. For example, I have an old Catachan sprue and some VERY old Necromunda Goliaths... So, yeah I made some "Armageddon Ork Hunters" that are in too deep. They all have camo on, and all have red bandanas, and I'm going to run them as Kommandos. Interestingly enough, the Goliath bodies are big enough that I didn't have to change much when gluing ork arms on, just file down the claws!

I Also love the ramshackle/ junkyard look that can go so many directions (and I intend to): Borderlands, Mad max, 50;s biker culture, WWII flyboys, savages with guns, etc, etc. I've written a whole light novel type thingy for my "Deffskullz" and how they picked up various other tribes and pieces of Waaghs- literally scaveging the scraps of other ork groups.

Just today I sat down and figured out a list for a 1k army. I thought I was going to have a lot of ladz.. buuut, it's mostly vehicles. That's okay- my old multipart kits have the 25mm bases, and though I'm going to print and mould the size adjusters, it ticks me off I put all that work into pre-making bases, and now I gotta do it all over again!

Strangely enough, my other army (Sort of) is the exact opposite of Orks: harlequins. All the paint and pretty colors! But, I refuse to put together a force until the Space elf Klowns (Or Ynnari) are actually a viable option!

And, Tis the Season:



Happy Sanguinala!

I’m wondering now if part of my affinity for Orks is rooted in the British class system?

Given that’s a political topic, let’s all agree to just skim the atmosphere of it and not worry about the minutiae.

Orks are the working or under class. Easily written off as crude and uncultured, yet possessed of an undeniably resilient spirit. And certainly far more capable of just living in the moment and enjoying themselves than those worried about etiquette and protocol.

I thing that's a common theme - because it'd be ideally suited in french culture as well with nobles vs grunts, and it still is very much a theme you'll come across today.

Considering the satirical origins of 40k, even unknowningly, they might very well have come to tackle such a topic.

Well, it would have been rubbed off as the orks progressed and became more of a comical relief.

I'd bounce back on you dok underlining how the ork mindeset is alien. I coudln't agree more. I mean, for all the efforts of GW to paint us a picture of the eldar or necrons, even oldcrons in a way, being alien to us, well they pretty much aren't. They're stiff arrogant mindset cranked up to eleven but that's relatable and they could be human characters as well.

Paradoxally, the orks have been built around a theme and leitmotiv so ridiculous and in spite of logic that they end up being the actual aliens. Because it is not really a human nor a humanly logic thing to accept opprossion of the strongest and neither escape nor fight back. A human who likes war is at best mad. We cherish our past and link stuff to it emotonally... Well, everything the orks can't do or understand. They function on a totally different hardware, despite being painted with relatively basic ideas.

And that's the genius of there character building as an alien protagonist.

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:

Paradoxally, the orks have been built around a theme and leitmotiv so ridiculous and in spite of logic that they end up being the actual aliens. Because it is not really a human nor a humanly logic thing to accept opprossion of the strongest and neither escape nor fight back. A human who likes war is at best mad. We cherish our past and link stuff to it emotonally... Well, everything the orks can't do or understand. They function on a totally different hardware, despite being painted with relatively basic ideas.

And that's the genius of there character building as an alien protagonist.

Actually it is a very human thing to accept oppression by might, and has been so throughout most of human history. The main difference is the Orks don't try to cloak it in ideology or religion and simply view it as the natural state of things without requiring further explanation. There are also people who do have antisocial personality that engage in reckless behaviour because they genuinely feel bored when not doing so, and also because they don't seem to feel fear at the possible risks and consequences. That seems to perfectly describe Orks, who are described as being bored and listless when not engaged in war. That is why they do other things like race in an attempt to temporarily relieve their boredom.

What is a key feature of the Orks IMO is their casual cruelty though this is not so much from deliberate malice as from innocent ignorance of the fragility of others. Punching another Ork and knocking out some teeth is no big deal for the one hit, but it could be lethal for a normal human to be punched in the face by an Ork (and any teeth lost are permanent).

Yeah, saying we don't accept oppression by light might be a tad too much but I think you completed my post well. Thanks

I think with my first reply I totally misunderstood what this thread is about

So, what I like about Orks?
They're actually more clever than the mechanicus. They built death Stars the Imperium tried to copy. They have their gestalt field, connecting all Orks in the galaxy subconsciously and making them feel when it's time for Waaagh. They're fungus you can hardly kill. They're seemingly programmed to know how to build complex stuff. They have no real ethics and will eat you and laugh when your eyes pop out in a funny way.
That's the serious, unsettling and properly sci-fi stuff about them.

But they're also silly monkeys and Hooligans that ride on boars and dinosaurs to hit tanks with their axes.
For me that's what's so great about them. The internet often focusses on the silly parts, resulting in people not familiar with them wondering how they fit into the grimdark. A friend of mine totally dislikes orks because he only knows memes about them about how Red goes fasta and it works cause they believe it and so on. But, that's just one aspect and even a debatable one.

Even the silly parts make sense when you realise war is fun to them.

Their, I dunno, riding a boar into battle, and hitting tanks up close with a rocket tied to a stick isn’t something they’d see as a necessarily good idea. But it is a fun one. And of course, extra daring. Because to survive all that you must be well ‘ard.

It’s swashbuckling, it’s derring do. It’s showing off.

And Orks being Orks, even if it fails and you get run over, gored by your boar and then the Rokkit goes off in your pocket? The other Boyz at least get a good laugh, and perhaps a memory they’ll cherish until they witness the next spectacular death.

Much less not understanding the risks, as perhaps not caring about them.

Examples of the "alien Mindset" the orks have is the time Guard made a show of force where they were weak and made it look like there was little/ no men where they were dug in and strong. Any other tactician would go "Hit them where (we think) they are weak!", But no- the Orks went and attacked where the show of force was, cos dat's a grood krumpin dat iz.

There's also in the beginning of Brutal Kunnin where Bozgat is looking at a forgeworld (I think it was Metalica) totally made of metal and was like "Typical Oomies, they make a planet out of metal wot's got the shiney bitz, then they get fashed when yez come and try to nick all da loot!"

My favorite instances of the strange minds of Orks are when Talker when he's lucid from the Guy Haley stories. Things like a Mek fixing a Knight and talker putting in “Caution must be taken when interfacing ionic technologies, especially those that originate with alien species whose consciousness wavelengths are incompatible with the psychically motivated etheric generators of the krork,” Then of coure the others tell him to shut up and he just replies with "Wibble".

It'd be real scary if more Madboyz like Talker were clear 100% of the time, and/or if individual orks survived long enough to become more like The Beast(s).. Ghaz is trying, but to me his "Mork" essence is tied up in Makari.

So much of the game has been changed or evolved and retconned over the decades, just look at the heresy. It’s fine from a story about a bunch of the emperors best mates betraying him, to the family drama we have today spanning a gazillion books.

But while all the change has gone on through the galaxy, the ORK background hasn’t really changed. A few new ideas added or extrapolated on (I fully ignore everything in the beast arises series, that was an abomination to all things orky) but if you read the first edition ORK books, and I recommend you all do for they are AMAZING, you will see all the current lore is in there. They haven’t massively changed, they are a constant in the hobby just like they are a constant ever present threat in the galaxy.

When it comes to ORKS I’m a purist, been playing them for 34 years, and the trilogy or 1st edition books are the only place you need to look for ORK facts. Some of the meme-ification of ORKS that many accept as gospel now irks me a bit, but it’s a big galaxy, if that is how their ORKS are that’s fine.

Which book is Talker the Mad Boy in?

Feel like I need to read that one.

Andykp is also correct that Orks have barely changed since their Waaargh! The Orks heyday.

Some stuff has been fleshed out, but only a little has been added. For instance, Orks getting physically larger the more they fight and win. That I think first landed, certainly in terms of models, in 3rd Ed. And the still hypothetical breeding and “works because they think it does” came about around GorkaMorka.

I do wish they’d treat us to a Made To Order Waaaargh! The Orks. Maybe even a bumper edition to fold in ‘Ere We Go and Freebooterz. There’s just so much glorious Orky nonsense the wider fandom deserves to own.

The quote from Talker is from "Engine of Mork", but it's only available as an E-Book.. I got the "Prophets of Waaagh!" audio drama from Guy Haley downloaded on.. *ahem* "A Bay of the Freebootaz", and it has some of the same characters, including Talker. (Also a nice instance of Orkish spoken and then translated. Talker's name is "Gob Gob Lots" in Orky.. )
Nate Crowley also talked about one story of the Blood Axes on "Adeptus Ridiculous" called "Enemy of my enemy" or somesuch. I want to get that one eventually- gist is Blood Axes and Guard are fighting, and 'Nids show up...

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Which book is Talker the Mad Boy in?

Feel like I need to read that one.

Andykp is also correct that Orks have barely changed since their Waaargh! The Orks heyday.

Some stuff has been fleshed out, but only a little has been added. For instance, Orks getting physically larger the more they fight and win. That I think first landed, certainly in terms of models, in 3rd Ed. And the still hypothetical breeding and “works because they think it does” came about around GorkaMorka.

I do wish they’d treat us to a Made To Order Waaaargh! The Orks. Maybe even a bumper edition to fold in ‘Ere We Go and Freebooterz. There’s just so much glorious Orky nonsense the wider fandom deserves to own.

Still got my original ere we go and freebooterz but have to rely on a pdf of waargh the ORKS. Would love a re-release.

One of my thinks about Orks, if the lore from the original Necron codex is in-universe accurate, and assuming the Krork became the Orks.

They, if you squint a bit? And maybe have a half dozen pints? Act like a Galactic Immune System.

They’re actively drawn to conflict. The more resistance they meet? The more Orks rok (deliberate) up looking to give whatever a damned good kicking. And, like an immune system, what doesn’t kill them teaches them new tricks to put down that ‘sauce of bovver’ down with minimal effort next time.


To take this loose hypothesis to probably silly levels? Maybe that’s why trophy racks holding the skulls or helmets of particularly fighty foes are favoured. Not just to assure your Boyz you is ded ‘ard, but that you’ve kicked all the girly teeth out this particular foe before, and so if the just follow you, they can get some top notch trophies of their own.

I feel that the Old Ones were hard-pressed when they made Krorks, and made them with certain traits in mind: IE: No soul that can be eaten by the C'tan, Tech that can't be assimilated by the Necrons, and a "cloud" system that backs up warrior's memories when they respawn (literally), and a rapid growth and maturation rate. Of course, as frantic as they were to get green 40 foot juggernauts out onto the galaxy, THEY FORGOT THE DAMN OFF SWITCH!!

Ah ah no way this will go out of hand.

Ever.

What I really enjoy is that the wacky, punch-em-up, ridiculousness of orks actually starts making sense in 40K.

Their backstory is slotted into the needs of the universe almost perfectly:

They can recover and reconquer even if they are entirely wiped out--keeping them a threat even when decisively defeated.

Individual orks can be stitched (or stapled) back together (even stapled onto another ork's body)--allowing recurring characters AND character deaths.

They are attracted to conflict, rather than avoiding it--allowing them to show up in any fights when it would be 'sensible' to avoid massive conflicts.

They have ingrained knowledge--avoiding a need to preserve specialists, traditions, lore, or rare, irreplaceable equipment.

They sense pain, but don't seem to experience any other negative emotions with it--allowing them to be recurrent, determined foes that cannot be easily cowed.

They don't have any sort of familial structure* (they don't pair bond, or raise children, or nurture young)--so they can't be manipulated with threats to non-combatants, or disruptions to 'peaceful' life.

The other species in 40K are all fighting to beat the galaxy into the shape of the kind of life they would prefer. Eldar want a certain type of society, Dark Eldar another, humans another, Necrons want a different one too. Orks seem specifically constructed to embrace the galaxy exactly as it is--and prosper.


*I also have an entire TED talk about how an intelligent species that never had to nurture children might not even be able to understand those types of bonds--which enables orks to be incredibly cruel to the weak and young (from a human perspective) and not deliberately cruel (from their own perspective, which sees smaller humies as just humie grots, and grots don't 'develop' into orks with nurture).

There’s definitely a pretty strong argument that Orks aren’t deliberately malicious.

As a species, we know they grow and thrive from fighting and surviving. With seemingly little upper limit on how many Boyz can get big. And to my mind, the size limit is likely directly linked to how many things out there can give you a kicking or at least a run for your money. Which explains why they like fighting Beakies so much.

That’s a unique mindset. As noted above, they likely lack any particular concept that other species are just never going to be as resilient as even the weediest Ork Boy. As such, it just won’t occur to them than properly feeding and resting any subjugated population is better in the long run.

We can also consider why they subjugate populations. First off, no self-respecting Ork that’s not a Spanner or Mek is keen to spend all day making stuff. And going back to Waaargh! The Orks, when not at war, Boyz and Nobs alike are described as being very lazy. Just eating, sleeping, drinking and looking for punch ups. And so they make for a poor labour force.

Grots can be bullied into making munitions, and certainly have the intelligence to run a production line. But they’re likely to skive off or otherwise bodge the job unless someone is wrangling them - and again, that’s not a job most Orks are going to be interested in doing.

Humies though? Just Right. They have existing factories, and know how to run them. And, if you promise you definitely wont use what they produced for you against them, are likely to do a much better job than Grots. Even better, if they’re churning out bullets and vehicles which can be Orkified into proper Trukks? Your Meks can crack on making the really fun stuff.

Best of all? You are of course going to use what they produced against them. Because that’s just funny.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
The "their tech works on belief!" thing hasn't actually been definitively stated anywhere though, it's an in-universe theory from some of the Mechanicus, that typically has some caveats that make it questionable when it's mentioned.

Like, the piece of lore that first mentioned it in 3rd edition was from a guy who was outright stated to "speculate too much" and he was basing his idea on conjecture.

And we see in some fluff (e.g. Cain) that humans can use Ork tech just fine. So it running on belief is unlikely.

On that? Remember insight we have into 40K is through a flawed lens.

A Magos Biologis being unable to make Ork weapons work just means they didn’t understand the principle of that weapon. And so offered a “probably just psychics and that” explanation.

It doesn’t meant the items being studied definitely didn’t work ever. For all we know, the weapons had genetic palm readers, to ensure nobody could nick that Orks favourite Shoota and get it to work. It could be it ran off a cabled power source, possibly even hooked up to something installed internally.

Equally, the Magos in question could’ve been absolutely correct - for those weapons only. Especially if they perhaps belonged to a Madboy, where all bets are off.

Which is all part of the Orky appeal. They’re a bizarre, demented race which makes little sense to outsiders. Yet…they’re massively successful. Arguably the most successful species indigenous to our Galaxy. Sure we’ve no accounts of them using sun killing weapons or other legendary if not mythical Lunacy Tech? But….they don’t appear to need it. Because when we boil it down? If they are indeed the descendants of the ancient Krork? They’re a species which has been partying for many, many millions of years, and survived every “oh you’re my galaxy now, Dave” species ever since.

And I absolutely adore them. If I had to be anything in 40K? I’d be an Ork. At least I could guarantee I’d have a great time!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
And I absolutely adore them. If I had to be anything in 40K? I’d be an Ork. At least I could guarantee I’d have a great time!

Yep! They are the only ones having fun... as scary as they could be for everyone else.

It’s also why you can’t really negotiate with Orks. I mean, if you’re at whatever you do for fun or relaxation, would you stop just because some stick in the mud complained?

For instance. I’m in the pub, enjoying some pints and a chat with friends, or even just reading your book and enjoying the hubbub. And in walks a person really into temperance comes in and asks me to stop drinking right now. Am I going to listen to them? No. I’m going to ignore them.

Granted I’d not be rude about, because unlike an Ork I’m capable of appreciating their point of view. But the chances of me stopping my life enjoyment because someone else doesn’t enjoy that are zero.

Note someone being ejected from a pub for being drunk and a pain isn’t the same. That’s more akin to the Warboss deciding you’ve had enough fun for now.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s also why you can’t really negotiate with Orks. I mean, if you’re at whatever you do for fun or relaxation, would you stop just because some stick in the mud complained?

For instance. I’m in the pub, enjoying some pints and a chat with friends, or even just reading your book and enjoying the hubbub. And in walks a person really into temperance comes in and asks me to stop drinking right now. Am I going to listen to them? No. I’m going to ignore them.

Granted I’d not be rude about, because unlike an Ork I’m capable of appreciating their point of view. But the chances of me stopping my life enjoyment because someone else doesn’t enjoy that are zero.

Note someone being ejected from a pub for being drunk and a pain isn’t the same. That’s more akin to the Warboss deciding you’ve had enough fun for now.

Thinking about it, but you actually can negotiate with the Orks... to an extent. Even if it is "those guys would be more fun to fight than us, please do so".

I mean, there are Ork mercenaries and stuff.

 AldarionTelcontar wrote:


I mean, there are Ork mercenaries and stuff.

Well of course, what's wrong with not just fighting, but getting someone to point you in the direction of good fights, and giving you extra loot for fighting; something you were going to do anyway. More fights, and more teef/shootas/etc which allow you to get into even biggerer fights. I suppose it takes a special kind of ork to not just up and kill the one hiring them, but that's how one becomes a kunnin' and brutal boss. And if some of the boyz don't make it, thats just more loot for everyone else, winning all round.

True, but I’d argue that’s more bargaining than negotiating.

Bargaining involves bribery, offering stuff etc. whereas negotiation is coming to a mutually agreed settlement with a bit of give and take.

Background wise? Many have bargained with Orks with….limited success. Because they’re just as likely to take whatever materials and weapons were part of that bargain, and turn them on you. If for no other reason than it was funny.

But actively negotiate? Not to my knowledge.

Yes a wily mind can use them as pawns. Craftworld Eldar, for instance, can influence where a given Hulk might re-enter real space. Kryptman tried his gambit. But I don’t think anyone has actually negotiated with Orks. At least, nobody seems to have survived to tell the tale.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, music wise?

Two songs by the same artist which seem to sum up Orky Kultur? It’s Andrew W.K.

1. We Want Fun
2. Party Hard.

Especially Party Hard. We do what we like, and we like what we do. We know what we want, and we get it from you.

That’s the Orky life view right there.