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Hi,

A random question just occurred to me that I cant seem to find the answer to.
When did SM scouts first appear? I recall them in Space Crusade? Space Hulk? or one of their supplements.
If so is this the first sighting of them? I cant recall them being in RT and I don't have my copy to hand.
Were they featured in WD?


Also. I'm sure that in the beginning they were post implant juveniles. Which always struck me as odd for an infiltrating and behind enemy lines kind of unit. Space Wolves had them as veteran 'scouts' . Did other chapters have them as veterans or has this version of background been adapted for other Chapters?


Thanks.

The original plastic scouts were in Advanced Space Crusade:


I think some of the metal ones pre-dated them, but not by much.


Lexicanum suggests they were introduced in White Dwarf 132 (UK) in December 1990 - I'll see if I've got a copy handy.

Were they in the lore before then or were they an addition?

The earliest reference to Space Marine Scouts I can find is in White Dwarf 113 (May 1989), where three miniatures were advertised.

Advanced Space Crusade was released sometime in 1990. They are described as marines who have received their surgical implants and training, but must prove themselves before they can earn their place among the Battle Brothers.

Scouts got rules for 40K in White Dwarf 159 (March 1993), where it is stated that their training and biochemical enhancement is still incomplete.

 Pariah Press wrote:
The earliest reference to Space Marine Scouts I can find is in White Dwarf 113 (May 1989), where three miniatures were advertised.

Advanced Space Crusade was released sometime in 1990. They are described as marines who have received their surgical implants and training, but must prove themselves before they can earn their place among the Battle Brothers.

Scouts got rules for 40K in White Dwarf 159 (March 1993), where it is stated that their training and biochemical enhancement is still incomplete.

Thanks for that.

 Mr. Burning wrote:
Also. I'm sure that in the beginning they were post implant juveniles. Which always struck me as odd for an infiltrating and behind enemy lines kind of unit. Space Wolves had them as veteran 'scouts' . Did other chapters have them as veterans or has this version of background been adapted for other Chapters?

If you look at the photo in beast_gets’ post, you can see there are three veteran scout sergeants. They’re the ones with non-mohawk haircuts and two great big power armour style shoulder pads. That’s one senior sergeant for every four neophytes, which is the standard size for a scout squad. Veteran sergeant is a specific rank above sergeant, and for 20 years IRL it was immediately below captain so these are very well-led squads. If you want you can think of it as one Rambo with four elite cadets giving him super accurate cover fire.

As for using veterans, it takes a few seconds to think about. All marines are paratroopers or rangers etc, the standard use of them is a 40-50 marine demi-company trying to go through 800+ enemy troops. Scouting is the only job that’s available for neophytes because the penalty for a scout squad messing up is just five marines being killed or having to withdraw. The penalty for any other squad messing up is that the entire company can get overwhelmed by superior numbers, 50 marines get routed or killed, they fail a crucial objective, and it’s a disaster because there were might be only 160 marines in that entire solar system.

So neophytes are given these probing missions. Since they have to be super elite just to become marines they can take care of themselves just fine. They just can’t be trusted to watch the backs of a whole company.

There is also this book that says some scout squads in some codex chapters are full battle brothers. It’s Insignium Astartes

Scouts are physically the same as other Space Marines but in many Chapters the 10th Company has a vital role as a training battalion and new recruits are inducted into the Scouts before graduating to the Battle and Reserve Companies. In other Chapters the individual Companies have a responsibility for this training and the 10th Company includes many Marines with decades of experience.

So like the space wolves and the crusade era marines, chapters can put neophytes in power armour right away if they want. The ones that use neophytes as scouts specifically choose to use them in this less crucial infiltrator role.

This is by Alan merret who was officially head of IP for GW. Unfortunately the book also disagrees with almost every other book on things like the size of terminator squads and I’m not confident he ever had much to do with creating any background.

The 1999 codex Blood Angels says that particularly ferocious marines transfer back to the scout squads so they can cut throats. This was in the text if a rule allowing no more than one scout squad to carry sniper rifles.

Anyway it’s a question of some critical thinking. For marines, the regular squads’ job is more demanding and elite than scout squad jobs are.

IIRC from the 4th edition codex Scouts were initiates who had received all their implants except for the Black Carapace, which they would receive upon completing their tour of duty as a scout. Whatever that entailed or meant varied from chapter to chapter and how many spaces there are available in a chapter.

beast_gts wrote:
The original plastic scouts were in Advanced Space Crusade:

Spoiler:

I think some of the metal ones pre-dated them, but not by much.


Lexicanum suggests they were introduced in White Dwarf 132 (UK) in December 1990 - I'll see if I've got a copy handy.

I remember that box very fondly; it was birthday money very well spent.

Real talk here for a moment:

I have never ever brought, painted, added to a list or played with any form of SM Scouts in any of the 40K Marine armies I have had over 30+ years.

I think I have had a blind spot for them.

 Pariah Press wrote:
The earliest reference to Space Marine Scouts I can find is in White Dwarf 113 (May 1989), where three miniatures were advertised.

Advanced Space Crusade was released sometime in 1990. They are described as marines who have received their surgical implants and training, but must prove themselves before they can earn their place among the Battle Brothers.

Scouts got rules for 40K in White Dwarf 159 (March 1993), where it is stated that their training and biochemical enhancement is still incomplete.

Fascinating! Do you happen to know if those 40K rules were reprinted in any rules compilation book? I'm assuming these rules were either for 1st or 2nd edition.. most likely 1st?

I did find two painted models with caption "Space Marine Scout" next to them in the Eavy Metal section of issue #113 - were those the ones you were referring to? They were shown next to some Confrontation miniatures, which also looked dope.. That was the current iteration of Necromunda, wasnt it?

TIA

PS: A new user registered on Dakka a few weeks ago, who said they are working on a modern fork of Advanced Space Crusade rules. Sounded awesome to me, very much looking forward to it! ASC was a fun game, I never understood why Jervis let it die..

Probably because ASC wasn't fully owned by GW; it was published by Milton Bradley iirc.

 tauist wrote:
Fascinating! Do you happen to know if those 40K rules were reprinted in any rules compilation book? I'm assuming these rules were either for 1st or 2nd edition.. most likely 1st?

They were not reprinted in a compilation book. The rules were for 1st edition, but it wasn't long before 2nd edition (October 1993) was released, and Scout Squads got rules in the "black codex."

I did find two painted models with caption "Space Marine Scout" next to them in the Eavy Metal section of issue #113 - were those the ones you were referring to?

There was an ad later in the issue that had those two minis, as well as one armed with a lasgun and a punch dagger.

They were shown next to some Confrontation miniatures, which also looked dope.. That was the current iteration of Necromunda, wasnt it?

Yeah, it was a precursor to Necromunda. I've never tried playing it, but it from all accounts the rules were really, really complex. A lot of the Confrontation background material was lifted wholesale and used in the first edition of Necromunda.

I found an even earlier space marine scout in WD 107, on page 47! Just a picture of a miniature labeled "SPACE MARINE SCOUT."

 RaptorusRex wrote:
Probably because ASC wasn't fully owned by GW; it was published by Milton Bradley iirc.

Space Crusade was published by Milton Bradley, with Citadel miniatures and GW background material.
Advanced Space Crusade was a GW game.

Same deal as with Heroquest and Advanced Heroquest.

Did you know that someone has made Advanced Space Crusade into a TTS asset? I was pleasantly surprised to see it there.. Have to give it a go as soon as other people in my gaming group get onboard with TTS