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Hi all!

The only example of space marines pirates I can think of is Huron Blackheart and his red corsairs. I don’t think they are referred to as pirates rather they are renegades/CSM that indulge in Piracy.

But I do see references to space marine pirates here and there that got me thinking, wouldn’t piracy be somewhat beneath traitor marines. By which I mean flying around the galaxy and attacking space ships and taking their stuff and just existing as pirates.

The fluff regularly represents space marines incredibly powerful and capable of taking on hundreds of not thousands of enemies for every unit.

If space Marines decided to leave the imperium surely, as a minimum, they would take over a large settlement or space station. Or if was a whole chapter they could take over a whole system if they only have to take on the PDF.

Got to equip, arm and feed yourself somehow. Whilst preying on civilian shipping is unlikely to furnish you with Bolt rounds, Chainswords and replacement Power Armour parts directly? You’re still going to end up with plenty of stuff to trade for those items.

And any Pirate group lead by Astartes. Or even a single Astartes, may well have a distinct edge over their competition, if only thanks to many decades more experience and discipline that your baseline human.

The freedom of piratical lifestile, roaming the galaxy unbound and at your will, has an interest of its very own for a being whose existence as a space marine was confined in the very restraint boundaries of its chapter. Even if he hasn't gone the chaos route and is simply a rogue marine or group of marines.

Piratical empires or enclaves are absolutly a thing though, from where raid can launch into the wider galaxy for all the riches they want or stuff they would need. As with all fluff in 40k, Huron's piratical empire should be a justification of YOUR piratical empire should you want to imagine one.

While surely, it is beneath traitors marines fighting the long war in terms of badassness, under a dark crusade in terms of firepower, I they still are totally a threat to be reckoned with, unlike minor baseline human pirates.

As long as the stronghold is somewhere very hidden, then a stronghold can exist.

The Red Corsairs rule in the Maelstrom, which is notoriously full of raiders and pirates. Their strength doesn't come from their Astartes but the insane fleet they command captained by Astartes, mortals, and Xenos alike.
The Ashen Claws live on the very fringes of Imperial space, scratching out an existence on the newly founded colonies and forgotten worlds in the void.

Other examples of traitor marine pirates:
* The Night Lords are basically doing some piracy in the early parts of the Night Lords Omnibus.
* There are those guys who show up in a few short stories and cameo in Path of the Outcast.
* The Dragon Warriors in the Salamanders Omnibus are sort of pirates. Or at least, they seem to recruit xenos to their cause with promises of piracy.

Sometimes you just need fresh water, air, or recruits and the easiest way to get them is to take them from someone wandering around far from planetary defenses.

Traitor marines could absolutely take over bases, stations, or even planets. The issue is that doing so tends to make you very visible and result in the imperium (eventually) sending a bunch of dudes to wipe you out. Whereas being fleet-based means you're harder to pin down and force into a one-sided fight.

My own CSM lord's MO is to conquer planets, do his best to give the locals a taste of hedonistic freedom, then leave with supplies and recruits before imperials arrive to retake the place... Or before his daemonic allies open a warp rift. Either way.

Wyldhunt raises a valid point.

If you have a ship, and a fightin’ crew? One can indulge in a spot of Piracy now and again, without said Piracy coming to define you.

Given Astartes are, so far as anyone knows on account of “until a hideously violent death” functionally immortal? A group of Renegade Astartes could do a century or two of Piracy, and that still be but a fraction of their overall activity. Yet, to their proper mortal victims? They quickly become a long term threat, despite their predations being comparatively limited in their own lifetime.

Carcharadons are also "pirates" in the sense they demand tribute from the populace they just saved. But it's usually young inmates that aren't productive to that society anyway- but I could see them asking for more materiel like armor, fuel, etc. And are you going to say no to the big termie armored chapter master who may/may not be wearing Corax's claws?

I was just looking over various SM color schemes and there are a lot of cool CSM chapter color schemes we never get to see, as they are not of the "Big Four" gods. But that got me wondering why renegades HAVE to drink the Kaos Koolaid. The Badab war was much more interesting with marine chapter fighting each other over an administratum slip-up, but Huron going Oops, all Chaos? That was a bad ret-con IMHO. All these reasons is why I loved the Blackshields in HH- you have marines from both groups independently doing their own things and so they have to raid traitor and loyal bases for supplies.

Piracy is crime, the Carcharadons have full legal writ to enact the Red Tithe.

A marine who has abandoned their oaths to the Imperium is almost certainly not going to consider piracy beneath them. They're not going to be in the best mental state, as clearly the semi-brainwashing of Imperial propaganda and their chapter has broken, and they will be somewhat without purpose. A skilled and armed fighter who has lost any and all moral compass and is free to indulge in desires they have not been able to before.

The best part of all is that they can abuse their status as a marine. Not just as a combat asset, but in tricky ways. Rock up to some fringe Imperial installation and tell them you need supplies. In all likelihood they'll just give you stuff just because you are a space marine, obviously you are a loyal servant of the Emperor and need those supplies more than they do. And if they don't well you can just take them.

This sort of trickery could go pretty far. Obviously you'd need to avoid more mainstream areas just to avoid the chance that someone in the crowd who notices an Astartes might actually know something, but you could move around and deal with the common people in a limited fashion. Maybe even convince a gullible ship captain to let you hitch a ride from place to place. This would work till you can get in with some proper mercenaries or pirates.

Such marines obviously don't need to fall to chaos, but it is certainly more likely that they would. Even if its more of a "Screw you Imperium" then a "I actually like Chaos" thing. The more nefarious pirates in the Galaxy are already often dabbling in heresy as it is, so getting exposed to the pull of chaos eventually is all but guaranteed if a marine is working with/commanding a pirate crew. Not to say that you couldn't reject it, but there is definitely going to be bias towards renegades turning to it eventually.

Agree with what folks have said.

Renegade Marines still need stuff- food, water, weapons, spare parts. Piracy is the easiest (and often safest*) way to do that.

Operating as pirates is the default for CSM warbands, even warbands from the 1st founding legions. The Red Corsairs are an outlier only in their scale- they are unusually powerful for recent renegades and rival even the legions.

*Any fixed stronghold will be targeted by the Imperium eventually if found.

 Gert wrote:
Piracy is crime, the Carcharadons have full legal writ to enact the Red Tithe.

So- they have letters of Marque? I'm sure the Spanish considered Sir Francis Drake a pirate, even when he was a hero to England. Just the same, with how rare it is to see SM in 40k (let alone a specific chapter) I'm pretty sure the local populace that gets helped by Carchadons are at the least a little intimidated when the big scary men "ask nicely".
But-semantics. I guess I've just always seen the Shark Daddies as off on their own, doing their thing and (once more) it's the Imperium's concrete duality of With us/ Against us that would get them placed in the latter.

It's part of their Pact with the Imperium.

The Carcharadons patrol the fringes of space, dealing with the worst horrors imaginable and in return, they have the Red and Grey Tithes.

The Grey Tithe sees the Chapter trade valuable archeotech with the Mechanicus for supplies and equipment.

The Red Tithe gives the Chapter leave to enact a gathering of a population, though this is not a free pass to do as they please. They don't just raid Imperial shipping or take every single person on a planet. Individuals belonging to one of the Adeptus also cannot be taken as part of a Tithe.

 TheChrispyOne wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Piracy is crime, the Carcharadons have full legal writ to enact the Red Tithe.

So- they have letters of Marque? I'm sure the Spanish considered Sir Francis Drake a pirate, even when he was a hero to England. Just the same, with how rare it is to see SM in 40k (let alone a specific chapter) I'm pretty sure the local populace that gets helped by Carchadons are at the least a little intimidated when the big scary men "ask nicely".
But-semantics. I guess I've just always seen the Shark Daddies as off on their own, doing their thing and (once more) it's the Imperium's concrete duality of With us/ Against us that would get them placed in the latter.

\

this is more a letter to a military detachment granting them leave to requsition stuff. a letter of marque applies to only raiding the enemy after all

BrianDavion wrote:

 TheChrispyOne wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Piracy is crime, the Carcharadons have full legal writ to enact the Red Tithe.

So- they have letters of Marque? I'm sure the Spanish considered Sir Francis Drake a pirate, even when he was a hero to England. Just the same, with how rare it is to see SM in 40k (let alone a specific chapter) I'm pretty sure the local populace that gets helped by Carchadons are at the least a little intimidated when the big scary men "ask nicely".
But-semantics. I guess I've just always seen the Shark Daddies as off on their own, doing their thing and (once more) it's the Imperium's concrete duality of With us/ Against us that would get them placed in the latter.

\

this is more a letter to a military detachment granting them leave to requsition stuff. a letter of marque applies to only raiding the enemy after all

Agreed. Although as it happens, it appears Space Marines in general do have something equivalent to letters of marque and can salvage gear from enemies they defeat. Imperial Armour Volume 2 talks about how most Space Marine chapters extensively salvage equipment from battlefields old and new to top up their otherwise fairly limited supplies.

Logan Grimnar is a famous example- his axe is a weapon captured from a Chaos champion and reconsecrated into Imperial service.

Strikes me the main difference between the Carcharadons and other Chapters is their far roaming nature, necessitating the Red and Grey Tithe.

Other Chapters will of course have a defined Home World, or vassal worlds they use for recruitment. And they’ll have pacts with Forgeworlds to rely on when their own facilities can’t replace or repair stuff.

Carcharadons…not so much. Not in the same way.

The Tithes may not be as “heavy” as we might think. Any young male being accepted as a would-be Astartes is still a great honour. And given at absolute worst they’re only needing to fill a few hundred slots? That level of recruitment just isn’t going to bleed even the most sparsely populated world of the flower of its male youth, and so prestige outweighs objections.


Likewise as written above? The Grey Tithe may be something actively sought after by the Mechanicus, as it’s the Marines taking all the risk, and the Mechanicus getting all the toys. Again even a small Forgeworld shouldn’t have too much difficulty equipping a Marine task force, so it may well be a beneficial trade.

Ideally, the Red Tithe is only a portion of a population in the same way any other Chapter would collect serfs/slaves/aspirants.

The major difference is that the Carcharadons have no safe haven. They are in self-imposed exile far from the Imperium's refit yards, supply depots, and Forge Worlds.
When the Tithe is called upon, the Carcharadons take what they need because there isn't much other choice.

The Grey Tithe, as MDG has said, is highly sought after by the Adeptus Mechanicus.
Many Explorator Fleets get lost in the deep void and many hordes of ancient and powerful technology can still be found in the fringes of the galaxy.
The Carcharadons still reap the rewards for this and it's why they can deploy such units as Contemptors and the more venerable patterns of vehicles.
Conversely, their exile means much of their armour and equipment is also hundreds, if not thousands of years old, with much of the Chapter bearing arms and armour that date back to even the Great Crusade.