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I'm running an RPG set in the 40k universe. One of the PCs is a low level sanctioned psyker. I'm running a temptation story line with him (the other PCs don't know). What do you think he would know about the warp and the chaos gods through his training? What would he think about a voice that comes to him in his dreams offering knowledge of stuff ?

I've said that much is suppressed in terms of specific understanding of the chaos gods, but what's reasonable knowledge?

It's never really explained just what secrets the Scolastia Psykana tells or keeps from their recruits. The problem is that after the Blackships and the obviously high-powered and/or dangerous ones are weeded out, the useful ones have a set path for them. Not strong enough or old? Get fed to Emps. Low levl but not estremely useful- stare into the Emp Tardis and become an Astropath. The Iota through Delta-tier class Psykers are the ones strong enough/ have cool enough powers for IG to use them. For Example, Patience Kiss was no doubt powerful enough in her own way.. but moving small things around doesn't have much application on a battlefield vs. say, shooting lightning from your eyes.

I'd like to think the Imperium learned a lesson after Emps' screw up of not telling his kids about Chaos, but- this IS the Imperium, and the littler the average person knows, the better. However, it's implied that your basic guardsman knows/ has seen some form of Chaos, be it Marines, Daemons, or cultists. And as much as the grey Knights would like to wipe out EVERYONE who had fought vs Chaos, there are few G. Knights and a LOT of IG.

So, I would think the Scholastica has a basic training of "these are the big bads of the warp- don't mess with them" and not go into a lot of depth. I mean, having your tutor go "These are the 13 thrice-damned names of the Pleasure Daemonettes of Slannesh under no circumstances should you say these out loud:...." is TMI on SO many levels, but it'd be more like "Daemons psychically feel like all bad emotions wrapped up into one thing. Don't mess with them!"

They definitely know daemons exist. They will have a rough concept of the Ruinous powers, possibly even knowing their names. Or at least euphemisms of their names.

Sanctioned psykers also seem to often be subjected to a lot of highly painful techniques to inhibit possession and interaction with chaos. Going by the Sanctioning side effects in the FFG RPG the potential safeguards done range from hexagrammic wards being tattooed in your entire mouth(making it hard to speak the names of the Ruinous powers or speak of daemons in general) to being forced to chant certain litanies to even forcing you to commit suicide when possessed.

While these aren't universal for all sanctioned psykers, their existence seems to imply that sanctioned psykers do know at least some specifics about chaos.

In the Severina Rhaine Book, they seem to go to great lengths to ensure that santioned Psykers don't actually ever know more than they should. This includes periodic mind wiping, and directly keeping them physically isolated from command and control assets.

If you are talking about "forbidden knowledge" then yeah, they know almost as much as a Navigator, which is almost everything, Daemons, Chaos, Heretical gods/ruinous powers.

It's not as clear cut as that. Things In The Warp, yes but not specifically Daemons or the Dark Gods.
Unless they're a veteran combat psyker that is.
Knowledge of the Gods and the Daemonic is very much restricted.

I think that's just the Rub. Are we talking Sanctioned Psykers serving with the IG, or IG Sanctioned Psykers attached to the IG? For instance, the Santioned Psyker in the Rhaine books likely knows far more than say, the average Cadian Sanctioned Psyker, but far less than the personal Psyker of Amberly Vail.

TL;DR: They know as much as the author needs them to. I am not all knowing, but simple logic says if they can manifest daemonic warp craft, they have to know what daemons are in the first place, and to fear going too far. If they know that, ergo, they know there are ruinous powers.

I would imagine that at bare minimum, they get a "If something in the Warp starts talking to you, report it to your superior in the psychic ranks immediately. Bad things will happen otherwise." Whether they know much more than that is something that people can debate over. But at bare minimum, I would imagine that the Imperium would warn its psykers that there are things in the Warp that might talk to them, and that having anything to do with those things is dangerous. You don't necessarily need to get into the hows and whys of what exactly that voice might be a part of.

And then the higher up in question can perform an evaluation, and take the appropriate action (which, if caught early enough, probably just means isolating the psyker from whatever is talking to him or her).

That's just it, it's taken on literal faith that the Psyker is telling the truth upon debrief. They can open themselves to anything in the warp, and there is no one there who can tell, except for another psyker, that they've crossed the line. All the BS tests that Commissars run are just mental stress tests to see if they break. There is no way to "detect taint" unless you are an extremely powerful psyker, (Farseer level). Base level humans just don't have the ability to tell if their Sanctioned Psykers are lying/gone rogue, until they go full blown Chaos. Grey Knights are said to be able to "sense" it in one of their books, like a foulness, but even that is by admittedly one of their most powerful members in a generation.

I think something to bear in mind here is that the vast majority of sanctioned psykers are deliberately weakened to reduce their susceptibility to Warp-taint. The majority undergo the Soul Binding ritual, where they are imbued with the essense of the Emperor to ward against taint. From what I understand, this typically dulls their own power. In addition, most sanctioned psykers also have implanted limiters and wards to protect against the Warp.

Further to this, most sanctioned psykers seem to live short, miserable lives. Partly this is due to the intense scrutiny and mistrust they are under- people such as commissars constantly observe psykers,and will execute them at the slightest sign something is amiss. I am sure that normally this is just superstition, and probably many, many untainted psykers are executed for each tainted one picked up early. In addition, it appears the majority of psykers do not have the strength of will to survive extended use of their powers, and get burnt out and die fairly quickly. Plus, most psykers do not have the strength of will to survive psychic feedback events, like mass casualties nearby.

When you put this together, I doubt the vast majority of sanctioned psykers live long enough to be affected by the subtler taint of Chaos. Meanwhile, the less subtle taint manifests more obviously- remember that most daemons are not particularly intelligent or subtle creatures. Unless the psyker has attracted the attention of a rare greater daemon or daemon prince or herald, it is not particularly likely that their taint is going to be subtle.

The powerful sanctioned psykers that are not subject to the above are much more likely to be found in institutions that can realistically detect Warp-taint early where they will be found amongst powerful peers. Institutions like the Inquisition, Space Marine Libraries, the Grey Knights, and high-ranking members within the Adeptus Astra Telepathica or Skolastica Psykana. Of course, sometimes idividuals slip through and only get detected when it is too late and their treachery causes harm to others, but it probably doesn't happen often.

 Haighus wrote:
I think something to bear in mind here is that the vast majority of sanctioned psykers are deliberately weakened to reduce their susceptibility to Warp-taint. The majority undergo the Soul Binding ritual, where they are imbued with the essense of the Emperor to ward against taint. From what I understand, this typically dulls their own power. In addition, most sanctioned psykers also have implanted limiters and wards to protect against the Warp.

Further to this, most sanctioned psykers seem to live short, miserable lives. Partly this is due to the intense scrutiny and mistrust they are under- people such as commissars constantly observe psykers,and will execute them at the slightest sign something is amiss. I am sure that normally this is just superstition, and probably many, many untainted psykers are executed for each tainted one picked up early. In addition, it appears the majority of psykers do not have the strength of will to survive extended use of their powers, and get burnt out and die fairly quickly. Plus, most psykers do not have the strength of will to survive psychic feedback events, like mass casualties nearby.

When you put this together, I doubt the vast majority of sanctioned psykers live long enough to be affected by the subtler taint of Chaos. Meanwhile, the less subtle taint manifests more obviously- remember that most daemons are not particularly intelligent or subtle creatures. Unless the psyker has attracted the attention of a rare greater daemon or daemon prince or herald, it is not particularly likely that their taint is going to be subtle.

The powerful sanctioned psykers that are not subject to the above are much more likely to be found in institutions that can realistically detect Warp-taint early where they will be found amongst powerful peers. Institutions like the Inquisition, Space Marine Libraries, the Grey Knights, and high-ranking members within the Adeptus Astra Telepathica or Skolastica Psykana. Of course, sometimes idividuals slip through and only get detected when it is too late and their treachery causes harm to others, but it probably doesn't happen often.

Couple this with the likely fact that most commissars are barely worth their sash, and too scared to actually know what to do in a proper situation like a psyker losing Control. Rhaine is extremely outside the line in her story where she overlooks things most would have shot Lydia on site for. Cain, Gaunt, and even Rhaine, are all teddy bears compared to the other commissars the schola pushes out. Beige comes to mind, from the Cain books, Scared, incompetant, fixated on Emperor worship. The other side is the commissar in the Cadia Stands books that follows Lesk around, and shoots troopers for looking at him funny. "Sanctioned" psykers rarely live long enough to learn many secrets because of their idiotic and cruel masters.

I don't think there is any evidence that commissars are systematically too scared to do anything about concerning psykers. I am confident that the vast majority of the time commissars shoot psykers first and ask questions later. They are taught the right thing to do is a bolt to the brain, and thats a pretty well-trained reflex for most commissars.

Most people figure out a psyker has gone too far by the sheer fact that a daemon pops it's head out of their neck. That tends to unnerve even the most battle hardened of soldiers. Now compare that with a rookie commissar who's never seen a daemon, and yes, they will likely start shooting, but they will also likely go through trans-human dread. There is more than enough evidence in the lore of Commissars losing their nerve in the face of true chaos, or break through. Commissars aren't any more or less special than an regular human with a fancy hat. They just know what the stakes are if they fail.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
That's just it, it's taken on literal faith that the Psyker is telling the truth upon debrief. They can open themselves to anything in the warp, and there is no one there who can tell, except for another psyker, that they've crossed the line.

Why wouldn't another psyker be involved in the de-brief?

Eumerin wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
That's just it, it's taken on literal faith that the Psyker is telling the truth upon debrief. They can open themselves to anything in the warp, and there is no one there who can tell, except for another psyker, that they've crossed the line.

Why wouldn't another psyker be involved in the de-brief?

If one is available they might. But sanctioned psykers are incredibly rare assets. Having more than one would be very unusual.

And their rarity naturally would make a Commissar reluctant to execute them without absolute proof of corruption. Common soldiers are cheap, a psyker is expensive. The danger they pose is of course real, but while it is unlikely a commissar would get in trouble if he jumped the gun a bit it isn't impossible.

No one is really in their own capability to question a Commissar's judgement on that though. The commissar said they saw the twitch/tell/giveaway, and fired. They're not in the IG chain of command. Unless they have a lord commissar hanging around, there is literally no one that can call that commissar out for choosing to blam the Psyker. Because they are then part of the inquiry. And no one wants to be on THAT list.

Commissars aren't Inquisitors. Yes, they are on paper outside the normal chain of command. But commissars exist in fairly large numbers and I would expect at least some paperwork for the summary execution of a Sanctioned Psyker. They could definitely face some scrutiny at least from other Commissars.

Certainly if it happens multiple times there might be questions. Though the rarity of psykers does at least make it less likely that will happen a second time.

Yeah, commissars can and do get challenged, but I think they are not going to struggle to justify killing a psyker unless that psyker was crucial to a battleplan or was unusually politically connected. It will be a bit different for astropaths as core communication nodes, but most astropaths seem to be pretty weak psykers anyway and rarely possessed in normal circumstances.

The Imperium on the whole hates psykers, they are superstitious zealots who are taught that sanctioned psykers are mutants that are one step away from heresy. Even regiments that routinely fight alongside battle psykers typically distrust them.

As Grey Templar says, a commissar might get into trouble if they develop a track record of offing attached psykers, but I suspect it would rare and they'd probably just be rotated to a regiment without psykers.

For the record, I think there are typically warning signs before the daemon pops out of the head. I don't think this is normally immediate from fine a moment before.

I’m not sure on that.

The ends justify the means is the watch word of The Imperium.

Sanctioned Psykers may be a comparatively rare resource, but when they go pop? It’s not just them that pays the price. Anything from a squad being wiped out to “whoops, Daemonic portal, now we’re really in trouble.”

Now, if a given Commissar habitually offs every Sanctioned Psyker that ends up anywhere near him? Yeah, I can imagine some kind of comeuppance might be on the cards. But so long as it can be played off as “better safe than sorry” I can’t imagine any punishment, if sentence, would be particularly severe.

Overall, a Commissar has more to fear from his or her Regimental charges than the Commissariat itself.

Like has been said, the fear is never that the commissar WILL pull the trigger, it's that they will hesitate to pull the trigger, and possibly doom and entire planet. Which again, Rain does with Lydia a shocking number of times....