Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've been away from the game a long time, so I'm not familiar with current news or thinking.
Most seem to think all the First Born may disappear by 11th edition. So will lascannons and grav weapons go away too?
I can see lascannons getting a three man squad like Eradicators, but will grav weapons?

They will get a new unit with a ridiculous name but instead of being lascannons they'll be something completely arbitrary with a similarly ridiculous name and marginally different stats.

Eliminators have a smaller lascannon type weapon ( Las Fusil).

I don't recall any grav weapons in Primaris.

Sarigar wrote:
Eliminators have a smaller lascannon type weapon ( Las Fusil).

I don't recall any grav weapons in Primaris.

The techmarine has a grav pistol, and I think an ImpFist character has a shoulder mount one.

But that’s just a “well, actually” technically true answer.

In general, primaris lack grav, and only vehicle mount lascannons and the fusils on the eliminators.

I'd say grav as an army option will be goneoutsideof a sprinking of side arms or one off models that pose with a grav weapon. Lascannons aren't going anywhere they're already too well populated among the primaris range.

 Gibblets wrote:
I'd say grav as an army option will be goneoutsideof a sprinking of side arms or one off models that pose with a grav weapon. Lascannons aren't going anywhere they're already too well populated among the primaris range.

That's kind of what I've been thinking, but was wondering what others that have been around thought.

They don't seem to be in any hurry though. Just wondering if we will have to wait until 11th ED to see a lascannon squad or are there more opportunities to come in 10th?
I'm not familiar with how they do releases though out an editions nowadays.

I don't think it is easy to predict. If GW feel like they want to do a unit with grav they will do it. I'd be amazed if they didn't release a Primaris infantry lascannon squad at some point.

Expect a second wave of generic Space Marine releases towards the end of the edition.
The replacement of Firstborn is still gradual and this time around GW has pretty much replaced all the classic Marine units with only Tacticals and Devastators remaining from the traditional Company lineup.

Don'tcha figure they'll get added in another edition? They'll be 3-man squads with the heavy lascannon from the Field Ordinance Battery and they'll look like Silver Boys from RIFTS.

Or something along those lines.

 Gert wrote:
Expect a second wave of generic Space Marine releases towards the end of the edition.
The replacement of Firstborn is still gradual and this time around GW has pretty much replaced all the classic Marine units with only Tacticals and Devastators remaining from the traditional Company lineup.

I was wondering about the Grey Knight's Codex and if they might release any generic space marines with it..

Dai wrote:
I don't think it is easy to predict. If GW feel like they want to do a unit with grav they will do it. I'd be amazed if they didn't release a Primaris infantry lascannon squad at some point.

There already exist primaris models armed with grav weapons. The imperial fist special character for example. The problem is the "no model, no rule thing" and the limit of units per faction release per edition. If let say 11th had bikes as their first wave and then something like "venguard" as their second wave, we are not going to see primaris "devastators" for a long time. And it will get even worse, if GW realises that under the rule system they created, they can't just bring out a "devastator" primaris units. They have to lock every weapon option behind a different unit type. It may take marine players a long time to see "gravitonators". What is possible is an update to the intercessor kit. And giving it a hellblaster, pyroblaster, las talon and a MM as a weapon option. But to do that GW is probably going to phase out tacticals first.

 Tommygun1918 wrote:


I was wondering about the Grey Knight's Codex and if they might release any generic space marines with it..

Very unlikely I'd wager. Primaris have been kept out of GK so far with the lore reason being that Cawl never had access to their Geneseed so he couldn't enact improvements.
But we can never really know.

 Gert wrote:

 Tommygun1918 wrote:


I was wondering about the Grey Knight's Codex and if they might release any generic space marines with it..

Very unlikely I'd wager. Primaris have been kept out of GK so far with the lore reason being that Cawl never had access to their Geneseed so he couldn't enact improvements.
But we can never really know.

I’d guess that if we got anything useable for basic SM from a GK release it would be a vehicle. But suspect they will get kits re-cut and there won’t be anything.

Gravitus Marines, and Lasicus Marines. Both come in boxed with 3 models, a squad size is 3-6, and it's 150-300pts. Current Grav rules and stats apply.

Same with LCs, but they'd be given some dumb Primaris'd rule to make them +4 damage on specific targets, like the original Melta troops. Then, after much gnashing of teeth, and exactly 1 week after launch, it will be dropped to +2 damage. Making them pointless and inefficient.

What I want to see is the Primaris Terminator (Aggressor?) Brought back and really dialed up to 11. Give it Shoulder racks, Frag storm launchers, Swappable Hand gun kits, from Bolter, to Flamer, to Plasma, to Melta, to LC, etc. Then give it some form of Ancient model, that can be given MC gauntlets. or MC something.

I know this is all very silly, but I love the big stompy, and I'm sad they dropped it and never went anywhere with it more than, "Heres a SM inside a Castellan."

Easy way to get LCs back is a full suppressor kit. Should be a simple weapon swap, the ACs for light vehicles and infantry, LCs for hard targets.

I could see the hellblaster kit being redone (not that it’s bad) into a special weapon squad box with plasma/flamers/grav all in one box.

I guess this raises the question: Do we need LCs back? In a world where MSU is king, and no one really plays tank rush anymore, and the basic melta profile can easily do a better job? The Las Fusil is a better replacement, for long range stuff, can be equipped on Light infantry, and doesn't take an entire special weapons squad. The LC, much like the AC, is an antiquated relic that really serves no purpose in it's current state, unless it's renamed and given a USR. And in that case, is it really a LC anymore?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I guess this raises the question: Do we need LCs back? In a world where MSU is king, and no one really plays tank rush anymore, and the basic melta profile can easily do a better job? The Las Fusil is a better replacement, for long range stuff, can be equipped on Light infantry, and doesn't take an entire special weapons squad. The LC, much like the AC, is an antiquated relic that really serves no purpose in it's current state, unless it's renamed and given a USR. And in that case, is it really a LC anymore?

Mechanically? Maybe not. The fill the role of long range AV. But map sizes being what they are, is that a role that needs to be filled?

Fluff/background? LCs are a core piece of equipment in the SM arsenal. It would feel wrong for them not to be there.

And the meta shifts. While tanks might be on the out now, they might be in vogue again in a few months. Who knows. And SM should have the tools that they have historically have had to deal with them. It would not be right for the tabletop to have such a massive disconnect with the years of history and background.

In my local meta (three guys, so ...) we play with at least 3 tanks, I took a pure tank list once. Tyranids would give a lot for a Lascannon equivalent.

Metas can shift, editions change. I would like a Lascannon Primaris unit to see that base covered. Nice five man unit, or as an alternative to the Autocannon from the jump pack guys would be nice

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Gravitus Marines, and Lasicus Marines. Both come in boxed with 3 models, a squad size is 3-6, and it's 150-300pts. Current Grav rules and stats apply.

Same with LCs, but they'd be given some dumb Primaris'd rule to make them +4 damage on specific targets, like the original Melta troops. Then, after much gnashing of teeth, and exactly 1 week after launch, it will be dropped to +2 damage. Making them pointless and inefficient.

What I want to see is the Primaris Terminator (Aggressor?) Brought back and really dialed up to 11. Give it Shoulder racks, Frag storm launchers, Swappable Hand gun kits, from Bolter, to Flamer, to Plasma, to Melta, to LC, etc. Then give it some form of Ancient model, that can be given MC gauntlets. or MC something.

I know this is all very silly, but I love the big stompy, and I'm sad they dropped it and never went anywhere with it more than, "Heres a SM inside a Castellan."

lolwut? Vehicles are dominant this edition.

Brickfix wrote:
In my local meta (three guys, so ...) we play with at least 3 tanks, I took a pure tank list once. Tyranids would give a lot for a Lascannon equivalent.

Metas can shift, editions change. I would like a Lascannon Primaris unit to see that base covered. Nice five man unit, or as an alternative to the Autocannon from the jump pack guys would be nice

Man, jump pack LC Marines? That sounds silly scary.....They would have to take some form of super penalty to shooting.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Brickfix wrote:
In my local meta (three guys, so ...) we play with at least 3 tanks, I took a pure tank list once. Tyranids would give a lot for a Lascannon equivalent.

Metas can shift, editions change. I would like a Lascannon Primaris unit to see that base covered. Nice five man unit, or as an alternative to the Autocannon from the jump pack guys would be nice

Man, jump pack LC Marines? That sounds silly scary.....They would have to take some form of super penalty to shooting.

How scary are suppressors?

With the range to reach across the table, the extra movement is not going to be like fast melta, where it’s required because you need to be right up in their face for max results.

It will help you get good angles, so LoS issues are mitigated.
It will let you move back to keep the range open, to avoid melee (while you have table space to do so)

And fast moving marines are generally not tough. And primaris don’t get ablative wounds, like a dev squad. So you are going to end up with a eggshell fragile glass hammer, with speed and distance being the only thing keeping them alive.

If you want a tough static LC platform, the pred annihilator is still an option, or the firestrike for those on a budget.

Knowing how GW likes duel kits I think the suppressor model is likely, as they need to do something with them anyway, so it seems a logical extension.

 Nevelon wrote:


Knowing how GW likes duel kits I think the suppressor model is likely, as they need to do something with them anyway, so it seems a logical extension.

If that's their plan, GW is being really, really patient about a suppressor model release then.
I keep wondering if they might drop them next edition with so little attention to them?
GW does seem to like keeping their squads limited to one weapon type now to make play balance easy though.
A three man gravis armored squad with Lascannons seems possible to me.
And yes, meta changes all the time. They may not be needed now, but will again in the future.

Just be careful what you wish for. "Primaris unit with missile launchers" got us...



... this.

 Nevelon wrote:


And fast moving marines are generally not tough. And primaris don’t get ablative wounds, like a dev squad. So you are going to end up with a eggshell fragile glass hammer, with speed and distance being the only thing keeping them alive.

If you want a tough static LC platform, the pred annihilator is still an option, or the firestrike for those on a budget.

Knowing how GW likes duel kits I think the suppressor model is likely, as they need to do something with them anyway, so it seems a logical extension.

Also the main problem with the unit, even in a perfect scenario, is that outside of a detachment that counted them as not having moved their one hot lascanons/lastalons/etc would be hiting on a +4, with 3 shots per unit. They would have to be very cheap or cheap&resilient to beat out eliminators in an impulsor, even before the whole double shoting thing.