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So has GW ever given a reason why up grades don’t cost points any more ?

And why some upgrades do still cost points (looking at you sentinel chainsaw)

Where do you see points costs for sentinel chainsaws?

I haven't seen them explain themselves in-depth (although I'd love to). My guess/understanding/interpretation is that they decided trying to balance the old system with points was an unwinnable battle, so they've opted to try a different approach.

In the old system, you inevitably ended up with options that were straight up better than others, sometimes even in the same roles. And how "good" an option was could vary based on who was wielding it, what other options they took, etc.

So rather than trying to make a power sword cost X points on an aspiring champion, Y points on a chaos lord, and Z point son a chaos lord with a Mark of Khorne... they instead tried the approach of flattening all of a datasheet's options into a single cost, and then removing a lot of customization options. So instead of having 20 different builds for a dark eldar archon and trying to make his points reflect every possible build (each with its own level of points efficiency), they just said,

"An archon costs this much. We removed every option that would make him cost significantly more or less than that."

Which while not ideal for those of us who like customization, makes a certain amount of sense. Except they left in some options that *should* change unit costs but don't. Ex: a squad of scourges with carbines really isn't in the same ballpark as a squad with dark lances. A hunter killer missile isn't really an "option" so much as it's an auto-include that you have to remember to include on your army list because why wouldn't you take the free bonus weapon?

If they want to keep this general system but refine it a bit, I could see them doing something similar to what I've pitched here: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/812887.page

It was done so they don't have to spend time and money on figuring out how much each and every upgrade should cost.
It would be OK if they knew how to balance all the options but that is unlikely.

Brickfix wrote:
Where do you see points costs for sentinel chainsaws?

Not sure now, I’m guessing I need to stop doing army lists on the train after a night out lol

I personally think the best would be a middle ground. Not paying for single upgrades, but packages... 2 examples:

Imperial Guard infantry
-Basic upgrades (free): flamer, grenade launcher, HB, Autocannon, Mortar, Missile Launcher chainsword (for sargent), bolt pistol, sniper...
-"Premium" upgrades (you pay a fee to get access to the whole bunch. or perhaps pay for each weapon?): plasma rifle, melta, plasma pistol, power weapon, power fist, lascannon,...

Leman Russ:
-Basic upgrades (free): heavy bolter/flamer, lascannon, stubber/
-Basic sponsors (small fee): heavy bolter/flamers
-Premium sponsors (this would make Russes as expensive as they currently are): heavy melta, plasma cannons

Note: NOT ALL UNITS Need this kind of Wargear upgrade packages. A transport like a Chimera and many other units like it with more balanced weapon options is not worth the effort doing this. In fact, most units would remain the same.

 Guillérmidas wrote:
I personally think the best would be a middle ground. Not paying for single upgrades, but packages... 2 examples:

Imperial Guard infantry
-Basic upgrades (free): flamer, grenade launcher, HB, Autocannon, Mortar, Missile Launcher chainsword (for sargent), bolt pistol, sniper...
-"Premium" upgrades (you pay a fee to get access to the whole bunch. or perhaps pay for each weapon?): plasma rifle, melta, plasma pistol, power weapon, power fist, lascannon,...

Leman Russ:
-Basic upgrades (free): heavy bolter/flamer, lascannon, stubber/
-Basic sponsors (small fee): heavy bolter/flamers
-Premium sponsors (this would make Russes as expensive as they currently are): heavy melta, plasma cannons

Note: NOT ALL UNITS Need this kind of Wargear upgrade packages. A transport like a Chimera and many other units like it with more balanced weapon options is not worth the effort doing this. In fact, most units would remain the same.

Like I said: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/812887.page

Ultimately, the main issue has always been that wargear has always been the thing that gets minned in order to max. Boys over toys and the like has always held true because its very hard to justify increasing the offensive capability of a model without durability raising to match. Quantity is its own quality after all.

Personally, the lesson I'm glad they took from this is the need to diversify target profiles to create useful roles for weapon options. There's definitely places where they failed to make meaningful choices and places where there's some pointless nonchoices to support legacy builds that really don't need to be that way. We all get that Hunter Killer Missiles aren't modeled. It's okay to just say they have them.
 

 Guillérmidas wrote:
I personally think the best would be a middle ground. Not paying for single upgrades, but packages... 2 examples:

DW Vets kind of work like this. There are a good number of specific configurations available to make for a a number of specific styles of loadout choices. For the most part I think it works pretty well though the lack of a proper DW Shotgun profile is disappointing since its one of the main features of the kit.