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Hi all,

Looking for some advice on finding a game for my youngest. He is only 12, but loves WW2 as a setting and enjoys FPS games. He's got very into Hell Let Loose, but my wife in particular is not keen on the online aspect - especially given the level of co-ordination required over voice chat with a largely much older player-base. I've also got MOH: Airborne which he also loves - but it's also pretty damn intense. He tends to get very into his games, gets very shouty and sweary if things aren't going to plan, and it does feel like playing these has had an impact on him as a person. We do limit gaming time (1.5 hours a day, and not on school days) but even given this restriction his change in personality (irritability, volatility) is noticeable.

It's a difficult age - and he has an older brother who obviously gets to play all the cool older games that he can't. But can anyone recommend any games that might be close enough to scratch his WW2 FPS itch but are maybe a bit less grittily realistic??? Might be a hard ask I realise... Console-wise, we've got an XBox series X and a Switch. We do have PCs, but only laptops with integrated graphics so limited gaming functionality. Thanks in advance!

OK, so maybee a bit of perspective, a 12 year old playing "hell let loose" getting sweary and irritable beeing the problem?
Really. You could put 1 or 3 of his friends with him infront of a Wii with mariokart 8 at that age infront of him you'd get the same behaviour. NVM the online aspect is vastly overblown in gaming, if you really want to know what the problem there is it's social media addiction not gaming which contrary trains pattern recognition and other skills, including concentration, whilest social media does the contrary.
Any competitve- (team) game that has you rely on people will make people irritated when it isn't working out and outside of your controll.
(discipline and organisation are things he will learn at that time, what helps is a swear jar for the swearing).

Isonzo might be up his alley, it is WW 1, still accurate enough and if he loves history may be up his alley. Alternativly strategy games might be something he'd also like?

WW2?

At that age I was plowing through some very unfun sets, but for him the choice has really increased.

A great system you can both play together would be battlefront (check out the goonhammer review). Less complicated than 40k but more complex.

Even simpler would be the board wargames like Memoir '44.

Thanks for your thoughts guys.

Social media isn't in the picture, he's not on anything apart from whatsapp groups with his mates.

We have experienced exactly that with Mario Kart. He is deeply, deeply competitive and hasn't built up the resilience to cope with losing - and as his older brother is pretty damned good at Mario Kart, he always does lose. He basically won't even entertain the notion of playing Worms or Overcooked any more, they just get too nasty!

We have seen Isonzo and yeah he really wants to play it. Looks too similar to Hell Let Loose though, and I suspect my wife would have basically the same objections to Isonzo as she does to that. Have tried suggesting more strategic stuff like Company Of Heroes but they don't appeal. He does play the Star Wars Battlefront game - Star Wars seems to be the only exception to his no fantasy or sci-fi rule...

Sadly I think it might just come down to him needing to accept his age and the limitations that go with it, but it's something he continually pushes against.

Off the screens, he is getting into rugby at school and got a Bolt Action starter set for his birthday - but he does get fixated on stuff, and it seems Hell Let Loose is one of those fixations...

I may revisit MOH Airborne. If he's not playing online, and we turn the blood off, it's probably as unobjectionable as a WW2 FPS can get.

I'm with "Not Online" that its less of a game issue and more of a maturity

I recall many many years ago when we first got a PC and played games. I chose Staracraft (blood, war, everything) whilst my brother chose Football Manager.

The one of us that broke the keyboard spacebar by hitting it with frustration and got the most riled up and irate was - my brother.

The game was just football (heck mostly just spreadsheet sim ), but losing got him riled up and agitated really fast. It wasn't just that game either, boardgames and such would have similar results. Even Snakes and Ladders.




It's less about the game starting the behaviour and more that they've yet to learn how to deal with a frustrating situation in a less volatile manner.

Now I will agree if they play a game that allows, or might even encourage, outbursts then its going to reinforce that behaviour. Again it doesn't matter what game or community, only that its not discouraging the bad nor encouraging more positive behaviour.



It might be worth breaking out other games for family time and trying to help teach him how to cope with a losing situation. Something like a "Swear Jar" could indeed be part of that. It's a negative association for undesirable behaviour and if you're in the same room when he's gaming then you can ensure that its an instant result*.

The other side is finding ways to reinforce desirable behaviour in a positive way. This could be something as simple as devising a means by which they can get a pay-out from the swear jar if they either use more appropriate terms; or don't swear at all in a situation etc...

It's important to have quick responses to behaviour and to both discourage the negative and encourage the positive.


Another aspect to consider is that outbursts and frustrations can sometimes also be linked to personal self confidence. If they have low self confidence/esteem then there's a greater chance that starting to lose can set them off much faster. To go back to an earlier example, a low self confidence person might lash out more the first time they go down a snake in Snakes and Ladders. It doesn't matter that its a recoverable situation in most cases; its that first negative "not going my way" and with low self confidence they reach the frustration/lashout point way faster. I can't say how to instil this, but I can say don't go for the "let them win every time" approach. That doesn't actually work, that just avoids the issue. Sure it might be part of helping build confidence early on, but its not a tool to rely on.


As to the original question of a fps ww2 game I can't help. I've always leaned more toward RTS so I'd be more likely to suggest Company of Heroes which is entirely different.

*Of course work with the game, having them stop play to put money in the jar right there and then won't actually work; but you can certainly tally up and announce it and have them pay at the end of the match etc...

Yes I think you've basically hit the nail on the head there. There are some underlying self-confidence issues and he is a very harsh self-critic. We are trying to foster resilience and curb his self-criticism but it's tough. Doesn't help that his brother is super-smart, has a nice group of friends, and has cruised comfortably through school like the proverbial swan - all serene above water but you can't see the flapping feet under the surface... Ah, parenting...

Crispy78 wrote:
Thanks for your thoughts guys.

Social media isn't in the picture, he's not on anything apart from whatsapp groups with his mates.

Good.

We have experienced exactly that with Mario Kart. He is deeply, deeply competitive and hasn't built up the resilience to cope with losing - and as his older brother is pretty damned good at Mario Kart, he always does lose. He basically won't even entertain the notion of playing Worms or Overcooked any more, they just get too nasty!

Ah, there we are, frustration.

We have seen Isonzo and yeah he really wants to play it. Looks too similar to Hell Let Loose though, and I suspect my wife would have basically the same objections to Isonzo as she does to that. Have tried suggesting more strategic stuff like Company Of Heroes but they don't appeal. He does play the Star Wars Battlefront game - Star Wars seems to be the only exception to his no fantasy or sci-fi rule...

Sadly I think it might just come down to him needing to accept his age and the limitations that go with it, but it's something he continually pushes against.

Off the screens, he is getting into rugby at school and got a Bolt Action starter set for his birthday - but he does get fixated on stuff, and it seems Hell Let Loose is one of those fixations...

I may revisit MOH Airborne. If he's not playing online, and we turn the blood off, it's probably as unobjectionable as a WW2 FPS can get.

If you let the kid play Hell let lose or MoH with or without blood then i am sorry the train has went already out of the station and as you said he is smart, hence it won't at all be an issue with him either. Certainly smart enough to differ between real world and lalaland. So i am sorry for saying this but your wife seems to lack a degree of perspective and behaves like a moral panic liberal/ conservative and honestly seems to mistrust him, a beeing that fundamentally has already started to develop the capability to judge at 12 and will be treated in most nations accordingly for good reason.
It's also that time in which a boy will push boundaries, but you won't solve that by either pacifying him and coddling him. And most certainly not by setting boundaries that are frankly illogical and that would be a boundary that is illogical. The real issue is the behaviour associated with swearing and the meltdown.

Since you said he had some selfesteem issues and is smart i reccomend the following: Next time he has a meltdown, ask him if that impotent rage will improve his statistic or make him look good for other people, nvm help him and his team win the game? The answer if he is indeed smart will be that he will calm down and focus on improving. If need be you can throw contemplations from marc aurel at him if he is really smart. Basically instead of getting frustrated point out that it is an opportunity to actually learn from someone, which is easier than to learn yourself.

However as a oldschool BF veteran you can't take the rage out completely and it is statistically proven to be catarthic aswell, nvm some people play FPS like snakes aswell. The same will apply to team sports either.

One thing I can suggest when it comes to dealing with situations - don't rely on one tool.

Dealing with anger could be resolved via logic as Not Online points out; it could be dealt with a physical outlet (get angry go exercise after); it could be meditation/relaxation techniques etc...


There's always a range of options and sometimes its about not just relying on one as the answer, but introducing more over time and giving him experience with them and choice/options. He might well respond to one better than the others and giving different options means that if/when the one that does work stops working so well; he's already got some others to fall back on.


One risk with a lot of behaviour elements is focusing on one method. Which can be ok when it works but isn't when it fails. It can also mean that they get through a phase with one method and if that method ever stops working then they hit a wall.

So be open to other options and introduce them steadily




Also don't forget the basics "hey I know you're annoyed but the other people you play with deserve respect too and they don't want you swearing like that."

You could try Enlisted and War Thunder.

They are online games, but there isn't integrated voice chat(only text) and it can be disabled/hidden. But even then its very mild most of the time. They are Free to Play with microtransactions, but they are perfectly fun to play without spending a penny and the grind is not actually that bad. The games will also run just fine on more limited GFX settings.

War Thunder especially, low tier is just as fun if not more than the higher tiers. Enlisted does push the microtransations a little more(same developer) so take that as you will. If you are down to join him, these games can be played together as well. You can join up and help each other in the fights.

Will take a look, thanks!

 Grey Templar wrote:
You could try Enlisted and War Thunder.

They are online games, but there isn't integrated voice chat(only text) and it can be disabled/hidden. But even then its very mild most of the time. They are Free to Play with microtransactions, but they are perfectly fun to play without spending a penny and the grind is not actually that bad. The games will also run just fine on more limited GFX settings.

War Thunder especially, low tier is just as fun if not more than the higher tiers. Enlisted does push the microtransations a little more(same developer) so take that as you will. If you are down to join him, these games can be played together as well. You can join up and help each other in the fights.

As a War Thunder player (unfortunately), and a parent as well, if one of my kids showed interest in the game, first thing I'd do is turn off chat. As it's a 100% online game, and a competitive one, it is perhaps one of the most toxic games I've ever come across.

If you think War thunder is toxic, i hope for your sake that you never play LoL or dota.

With random teams; daily reward quotas and often gameplay that reward selfish rather than team actions - a LOT of games like that encourage a toxic level of play in the random matches and random teams.

Players are against the clock often trying to beat their daily target during their allotted game time and they certainly don't want to lose. That the gameplay often uses things like experience bound to the player not the team means that people get stressed out if others "steal their kill" or reward and such.


Despite being team games they have very selfish mechanics.

Organised teams are often much better because there's social contact and interaction outside of the game session and a longer term impact of player behaviour.
Random teams with thousands of players - most who don't care what you say or just mute you - can easily encourage poor player behaviour.

I am just stating event time is the time where the most NaCl is around in Warthunder.

Not Online!!! wrote:
If you think War thunder is toxic, i hope for your sake that you never play LoL or dota.

Yeah. War Thunder is honestly squeeky clean compared to other games. Or the good old COD lobbies. Not saying it can't have some toxicity, but this is nowhere near the worst. But you can disable that if you are concerned.

Maybe its just because I play Realistic battles mostly. The people in Realistic are way less chatty than Arcade mode.