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Hello all! I'm new to this forum so idk if this is the right spot for this, but I didn't really see another spot where I thought it would go, so I decided to put it here to see what y'all think of this idea, and see if I can get help filling it out. If a mod moves it, no worries

If you know about the Cosmere, your input would be especially helpful, but anyone is welcome to respond and give ideas and feedback on balancing and how to represent certain things in the game rules!


The idea of the codex is that thanks to cognitive mumbo jumbo, much of the cosmere has been transported to a world in the outskirts of the Warhammer galaxy. They are forced to band together and work together despite their differences across time, cultures, and religion. People from all times and planets are represented. No one has seen Kelsier and they're all worried about it.

Anyway, on to the codex (or at least what I have so far. I expect I'll eventually update this with a big doc)

Cosmere Alliance:

Faction Ability: Investiture

You may spend Investiture at the beginning of a phase to make a unit Invested for a phase. Invested units gain Lethal Hits, and may have other abilities that trigger when they are Invested

Certain units will have the key word Reserve X. At the beginning of your command phase, gain X Investiture where X is the number of instances of Reserve among units you control

Detachments

Heroic Vanguard

While a CHARACTER model is attached to a unit, models in that unit get +1 to Ld and +1 to OC. CHARACTER models’ melee attacks get +1 Strength and +1 Damage

[i]Enhancements

Inspiring Captain: Units led by the bearer reroll failed Battleshock tests and get +1 to wound against enemies with greater Toughness

Elite Strike Force: Units led by this character have Infiltrators and Stealth

Shardic Champion: This model adds 1 to its Reserve ability. At the beginning of the Fight Phase, if the bearer is Invested, any enemy units in Engagement Range take D3 Mortal Wounds

Ancient Oaths: At the end of any phase, spend 1 Investiture to heal D3 wounds to any damaged models in the bearer's unit

Stratagems (Need to be formalized)

Resurrect a Character by spending investiture

A unit that charged gets critical hits on 5+, Character models get 4+

6" reactive move when a enemy unit moves within 9"

A character's leader ability can apply to another Infantry unit without a leader

When a unit passes a battle shock test, treat them as being Invested until they fail one/next command phase/end of turn?

Unit gets 5+++ Feel No Pain

Welcome! FYI, this would normally go in the Proposed Rules section.

Not familiar with the Cosmere Alliance, but here are some scattered thoughts going purely off of mechanics and what you have so far:
 

Negative_Null wrote:

Cosmere Alliance:

Faction Ability: Investiture

You may spend Investiture at the beginning of a phase to make a unit Invested for a phase. Invested units gain Lethal Hits, and may have other abilities that trigger when they are Invested

Certain units will have the key word Reserve X. At the beginning of your command phase, gain X Investiture where X is the number of instances of Reserve among units you control

This seems like it should work and has room to be interesting. Baseline, it's sorta kinda similar to the CSM pact mechanic, but less random and with more limited access to the relevant resource.

Detachments

Heroic Vanguard

While a CHARACTER model is attached to a unit, models in that unit get +1 to Ld and +1 to OC. CHARACTER models’ melee attacks get +1 Strength and +1 Damage

Personally, I don't find Ld and OC bonuses to be that useful for most armies. Unless your Ld is subpar to begin with, being 6+ on most units is already quite good. And having more OC than the enemy only matters if your units are either durable or cheap enough to throw onto objective marker to deny your opponent points for a turn or out OC them in a prolonged exchange. But how useful those are will depend on the specifics of your datasheets.

+1 Strength and Damage is a small red flag for me. Depending on your datasheets, increasing damage might completely change what kind of role your character fills. A beatstick with A5 S4 D1 can kill some eldar, but isn't going to kill more than 1 or 2 intercessors. Bump that up to S5 D2, and now he might actually be a significant threat to some intercessors. Normally, you'd see this kind of unit-redefining buff as an enhancement because you'll have a pretty good idea of the optimal datasheet to stick it on and can set a points cost accordingly.

Also, minor note for the anti-synergy between lethal hits and +1 strength.

Enhancements
Inspiring Captain: Units led by the bearer reroll failed Battleshock tests and get +1 to wound against enemies with greater Toughness

So the battleshock part of this is double-dipping on the Leadership bonus your unit is already going to have from the detachment rule. It's a very passive benefit, but it also makes a mechanic that's already often considered too unimpactful (battleshock) and makes it even less likely to matter. So I'm iffy on the first half for those reasons.

I'm iffy on the second half because to-wound modifiers can quickly make the game's math wonky. Someone paying points for Toughness 12 on a landraider is suddenly having that land raider pinged on 5+ by bolter equivalents or on 4+ by plasmagun equivalents. And as you already have an army-wide rule to provide access to lethal hits, you're functionally double-dipping on mechanics that make enemy Toughness less valuable. Not saying you necessarily need to change it, but it's definitely something to be wary of as you design datasheets.

Elite Strike Force: Units led by this character have Infiltrators and Stealth

Should be fine as long as you prevent this from being available to units that suddenly become a problem with either of those rules.

Shardic Champion: This model adds 1 to its Reserve ability. At the beginning of the Fight Phase, if the bearer is Invested, any enemy units in Engagement Range take D3 Mortal Wounds

As a rule of thumb, you usually want there to be a failure point on damage output. Most if not all mortal wound generating mechanics have at least a small chance of doing no mortal wounds. So a typical mortal wound mechanic might say something like,

"Roll a d6. On a 2-5, all enemy units within Engagement Range take d3 Mortal Wounds. On a 6, they take 3 mortal wounds instead."

Ancient Oaths: At the end of any phase, spend 1 Investiture to heal D3 wounds to any damaged models in the bearer's unit

Probably ought to cap this at once per turn. You most likely don't want to let people spam heals multiple times across a single turn.

Stratagems (Need to be formalized)

Resurrect a Character by spending investiture

A unit that charged gets critical hits on 5+, Character models get 4+

6" reactive move when a enemy unit moves within 9"

A character's leader ability can apply to another Infantry unit without a leader

When a unit passes a battle shock test, treat them as being Invested until they fail one/next command phase/end of turn?

Unit gets 5+++ Feel No Pain

These seem fine. On the second one, note that this is a third stackable way (a triple dip) on mechanics that make you devalue enemy Toughness. Again, it's hard to say without seeing datasheets, but something like a squad of guardsmen would be ignoring Toughness with 2/3rds of their successful hits (18 lasguns = 6 lethal hits), then wounding a land raider on a 5+ with the other 3 lasgun hits, then doing another wound or to with something like a plasma gun, then the character is going to be chipping in some lethal hits and then some wounds with +1Strength and better-than-default-damage.

Again, not saying that you necessarily need to change it, but you're tripling down on this one variety of mechanic, and it's a potentially frustrating mechanic for opponents that paid points for higher toughness units. So it's something to be aware of as you design your datasheets.

Wyldhunt wrote:Welcome! FYI, this would normally go in the Proposed Rules section.

Got it, thank you!



As a general response to most of your points (thank you so much for the feedback), this army would largely be a bunch of cheap, T3 1 Wound models with some killy but fragile characters, probably playing similarly to Genestealer Cults or Guard, so I was really worried about them being able to punch up in a galaxy of tanks and power armor, but you're right that having that many rules, especially in one detachment, devoted to that might be a little too much. I didn't even realize how many times I had written that until you pointed it out. Also looking back I think I was overfocused on Leadership as well, although that's partly just because it's the first thing to come to mind when I think of heroic leaders.
A lot of that probably can be reworked to hit roll buffs, do you think?

The basic infantry profile probably would be something similar to a Guardsmen so, if I can format this right
6" T3 4+ Sv 1W 2 OC 7+Ld
Close Combat Weapon
Light-guns 18" 1A BS4+ S3 AP0 D1, if they're Invested maybe get Rapid Fire 1?

And maybe split that profile into a melee-ish and shooty-ish unit with heavy weapons like Guardians or Emperor's Children, the intention being that this is your basic workhorse unit that most characters can attach to, and you customize them to how you want, the rest of your army kind of filling in the gaps with some heavy melee infantry, some mobile point getters, and maybe a smaller monster (like T8 would be the maximum I think)

Hmm. Sounds like the intent is to be pretty squishy overall. Between that and not hitting veyr hard baseline, I think you'd have to make these guys extremely horde-y to have a chance.

For someone not familiar with the source material, what's the elevator pitch of what these guys are/what makes them effective?

In an elevator pitch? The heroes and artificers of this faction can draw upon godly powers and use them as a science so everyone can apply them a little bit.
Longer explanation I guess?
That makes them sound a lot like Chaos Cultists, but their deities are at least a little more orderly and benevolent. In some of the books the resident god might be Honor, Devotion, Preservation, or Ruin, and their different devotees have different powers, but all expressions of the same magic system.
In the story of the books, most factions are on the verge of discovering space travel, so that gives you an idea of the technology level I'm looking at, and why I think relying on Investiture to punch up is a good way to show that.
Some examples of their powers are swords that sever the soul, flight, energy blasts, teleportation, bringing inanimate objects to life, emotional manipulation, changing gravity, controlling metal, stuff like that. The most dramatic powers are limited to the heroes, but any random infantryman might have a random quirk that can give them a slight edge. I think hordey works, supported by the characters. But maybe I am leaning too hard into the fluff to make it playable

Hmm. Nah. I think the concept is workable. It reminds me a bit of the humans-lead-by-slightly-trained-psykers concept I've worked on in the past.

It sounds to me like the main strength of the faction is their ability to leverage abilities of their magic guys and spread those benefits around the rest of the squad. So with that in mind, I don't think you want to build the army around "character" and unimpressive basic squads; I think you want to build datasheets that represent squads lead by magic dudes.

So don't have a basic squad and then a character who gives them the ability to fly; build a datasheet where everyone has fly and the guy allowing them to fly is baked in as a sergeant type. Then give the squad a special rule and some wargear that ties into them being able to fly.

Your emotion manipulators might have better-than-usual Leadership stats, and then also have a special rule that forces nearby enemies to charge at them. And then you give them flamers so that they're good at overwatching those enemies they've goaded into charging.

Your inanimate objects might be a squad of scrap golems that lose efficacy if they're too far from an animator. Your teleportation guys might serve as shock troops/assassins equipeed with stronger short-ranged weapons.

Your metal controllers might be equipped with heavy weapons that shoot ballistic ammo so they can bend the projectiles towards their targets or create cover by pulling loose metal into a makeshift fortification, etc.

I think you can report your own post and ask Mods to move it to the right forum.

I’m at work, but will offer commentary later.

Negative_Null wrote:
In an elevator pitch? The heroes and artificers of this faction can draw upon godly powers and use them as a science so everyone can apply them a little bit.
Longer explanation I guess?
That makes them sound a lot like Chaos Cultists, but their deities are at least a little more orderly and benevolent. In some of the books the resident god might be Honor, Devotion, Preservation, or Ruin, and their different devotees have different powers, but all expressions of the same magic system.
In the story of the books, most factions are on the verge of discovering space travel, so that gives you an idea of the technology level I'm looking at, and why I think relying on Investiture to punch up is a good way to show that.
Some examples of their powers are swords that sever the soul, flight, energy blasts, teleportation, bringing inanimate objects to life, emotional manipulation, changing gravity, controlling metal, stuff like that. The most dramatic powers are limited to the heroes, but any random infantryman might have a random quirk that can give them a slight edge. I think hordey works, supported by the characters. But maybe I am leaning too hard into the fluff to make it playable

I think you've left something important out of your pitch. Especially for those not familiar with the source material.
And that is..... What are these guys? Humans? Aliens of some sort? Robots? What minis am I looking at to field them?

So, +1 Strength and +1 Damage can (on a D1 weapon) both double the actual damage inflicted on average against some targets.
However, +1 Strength is much less valuable (and therefore easier to give) than +1 Damage.

If your Characters have a S4 AP-1 D1 profile option, adding +1 Strength increases damage by...

33% against T4
50% against T5
100% against T8 and T9

Adding +1 Damage increases damage by...

100% against anything with an even number of Wounds
50% against W3
67% against W5

At a glance, one might suspect +1 Strength to be only slightly less valuable, but the thing is, T8 and T9 models are both (1) not super common and (2) your damage is pitiful against them even WITH doubling it.
Whereas +1 Damage doubles damage against a LOT more targets, like any MEQ, and you're more likely to do adequate damage to start, making doubling a bigger issue.

Negative_Null wrote:
Detachments[i]

Heroic Vanguard

While a CHARACTER model is attached to a unit, models in that unit get +1 to Ld and +1 to OC. CHARACTER models’ melee attacks get +1 Strength and +1 Damage

I would rate this as a bad detachment ability. It seems to me that it places army critical rules into the detachment rather than on the datasheets. This means you lose them if you change the detachment. How do you expect the army to function with a different detachment that doesn't have these abilities?

JNAProductions wrote:I think you can report your own post and ask Mods to move it to the right forum.

I’m at work, but will offer commentary later.

Good to know, thank you!

ccs wrote:

Negative_Null wrote:


I think you've left something important out of your pitch. Especially for those not familiar with the source material.
And that is..... What are these guys? Humans? Aliens of some sort? Robots? What minis am I looking at to field them?

Lol, good question. They are mostly humans, with a few alien races alongside them

Wyldhunt wrote:Hmm. Nah. I think the concept is workable. It reminds me a bit of the humans-lead-by-slightly-trained-psykers concept I've worked on in the past.

It sounds to me like the main strength of the faction is their ability to leverage abilities of their magic guys and spread those benefits around the rest of the squad. So with that in mind, I don't think you want to build the army around "character" and unimpressive basic squads; I think you want to build datasheets that represent squads lead by magic dudes.

That's a great idea actually. Thank you so much everyone for your feedback. I think that idea might work better, although I would then be worried about having a basic Battleline unit and not just a bunch of elite infantry

Has the Cosmere RPG been released yet? I'd look into that. I think Wyldhunt's idea works each unit has mastered up to one type of investiture, then a variety of character units with access to a few different types of investiture. You might have a Windrunner Squad with squires led by a full Radiant, a Peasant Mob which can be upgraded to include a couple of guys that can control the mob and enemy units emotions.

Personally I think Detachments should focus on playstyles rather than lists. So avoid too many buffs that force you into a specific list or spamming a few datasheets only. I would look at the systems from the books to inspire the kinds of gameplay each detachments brings.

Nalthis/Unbroken Brigade - Survival, getting objectives and growing stronger in the long term but not through slaughtering enemies.

Roshar/Merciless Legion - Straight conflicts and area of effect abilities with no concern for ally or foe.

Scadrial/Harmonious Delegation - Using trickery, theft and speed.

Sel/Devoted Flock - Adhering to a strict plan to get benefits.