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Hello everyone, I got another rule up. I really like it and played it once as if this post. Forgot to apply it at time tho XP. I like to get more input and perspective because it isn't refined.

The rule reads as follow

Each phase, a model can only be targeted for attacks up to X times which is their size.

If size is not stated, use the model's official one-tenth base size or the longest dimension of the body of the model in mm or [Base size]/10

The main goal of this is to not have bigger and heroic models get ganged up by shooting, which is a persistent issue. This also buffs anti-tank/anti-monster weapons as you want to use stronger weapons against them, the low shot rating isn't as much of a debuff compared their more rapid fire counterparts. This also buffs Blast, as they already can only hit once per model.

Example 1,
An exterminator autocannon targets a Techmarine. The techmarine has a 40mm base, so it size will be 4. The EAC has Heavy 6 but because the marine is size 4, the cannon only fires 4 shots.

Example 2,
A 60mm Abaddon was recently attacked by a autocannon which was 2 shots, now a squad of five Intercessors fires their boltrifles at Abaddon, with 2x5 shots (10), but because Abaddon was already received 2 shots, the Intercessors will only roll 4 as 6(Size) - 2(Previous shots) = 4

Example 3,
A squad of 10 Guardsman fires their lasguns at 4 chaos terminators (40mm = 4 size), they are within half range so they have 20 shots, but because there are only 4 terminators, 4 shots will be allocated to each of them, the guardsmen roll 16 shots, 4 of them succeed, so 3 wounds must be allocated to 1 terminator and and wounding another.

Does this affect melee?

Regardless of whether it does or not, I don’t think it’s a good change.

 JNAProductions wrote:
Does this affect melee?

Regardless of whether it does or not, I don’t think it’s a good change.

it does effect melee, and it effectively restart as it would be on a different phase

That sounds absolutely awful then.

Edit: It also doesn't buff Blast at all. It's either a nerf or does nothing.

As an Imperial Knights player, I selfishly love this idea.

I can effectively nerf the sea of Tau shooting.

How do you keep track? If it is a nightmare to keep track of it does not make the game more fun.

How does it make sense? If it makes the game make less sense then it does not make it more fun.

Weapons with higher BS stats are less affected, BS5+ units need to fire twice as many shots to get the same number of hits a BS3+ weapon needs. If for fluff reasons a weapon has twice the shots, but hafl the BS your rule unfairly targets that weapon. The same thing applies to haywire which has the same role as lascannon, countering the heaviest enemy vehicles, but it just has more shots and less damage per individual shot.

Look into Apocalypse, because you don't take saves before everything is over you are incentivised not to focus fire something until it is 100% dead like in 40k. It also has fewer dice rolls for damage, like you suggested in your other thread.

Not a fan.

Mechanically - this creates a ton of balance issues around already hard to balance units. You're basically making it even harder to deal with something like a daemon primarch or a knight army.

In Terms of Fluff - the only enemy in sight is a greater daemon stomping towards my lines. If it reaches me, my troops will be torn apart, and we'll all die horribly. So why am I telling my guys to *not* shoot the extra lascannons that might save everyones' lives?

If your goal is to keep a whole army from shooting at a single unit (which I agree can be a bit of an issue), I think you probably want to look for a more flavorful solution with more counterplay. Some ideas I've been kicking around:

* Minimum ranges for long-ranged weapons. So once you get close to a basilisk or a sniper rifle, they're no longer able to brought to bare.

* Terrain rules that make units in the terrain untargetable outside of X". So everyone on your left flank can probably make out the enemy in the trees, but your right flank might be unable to pick out targets.

* Screening rules. I think there's probably a reasonable way to let cheaper, more expendable units make it harder to hurt nearby expensive units. Maybe a strat that imposes a severe debuff to attacks made against the screened unit representing the screen taking up protective positions, etc.

* Blinding weapons that reduce the range of units they hit for a turn.

* Deployable shield generators, smoke grenades, psychic powers, etc. that let you put up a temporary line of sight blocking/shortening wall.

Stuff like that creates interesting decisions for a shooty army and doesn't just arbitrarily preven them from stopping Angron before he reaches their lines.

 vict0988 wrote:
How do you keep track? If it is a nightmare to keep track of it does not make the game more fun.

How does it make sense? If it makes the game make less sense then it does not make it more fun.

Weapons with higher BS stats are less affected, BS5+ units need to fire twice as many shots to get the same number of hits a BS3+ weapon needs. If for fluff reasons a weapon has twice the shots, but hafl the BS your rule unfairly targets that weapon. The same thing applies to haywire which has the same role as lascannon, countering the heaviest enemy vehicles, but it just has more shots and less damage per individual shot.

Look into Apocalypse, because you don't take saves before everything is over you are incentivised not to focus fire something until it is 100% dead like in 40k. It also has fewer dice rolls for damage, like you suggested in your other thread.

1. That's my biggest issue with the rule, you have to keep track. Like I said, I forgot at times. A good method is to look at one model you want to shoot, see what weapons you want to shoot and add up to the max number of targets.

2. The logic behind it is that as shots fire, there can only be a number of bullets within a given space, and as the target endures shots, they get knocked back or take cover as access shots shoot out. Granted, this rule is more fantastical than realistic. It shreds heroics from focus action economics, something that's not usually in heroic fantasy.

I really don't think most armies are putting out so many shots from so tight an angle that we need to start modeling bullets bumping into eachother.

Respectfully, Niv, I think this is a bad concept executed poorly.

I have to say I really don't understand the motivation behind this rule. Being able to pump a mad amount of shots into the approaching monster/bad guy is sorta the behavior I expect to see.

 Insectum7 wrote:
I have to say I really don't understand the motivation behind this rule. Being able to pump a mad amount of shots into the approaching monster/bad guy is sorta the behavior I expect to see.

Look at the first post, I stated my goal after the quote.

How do you shoot at tiny models on clear plastic flight stands?

You can only attack them once, because you are measuring the model, not the base?

 Quixote wrote:
How do you shoot at tiny models on clear plastic flight stands?

You can only attack them once, because you are measuring the model, not the base?

Considering I don't think flight bases are a good metric, as they don't correlate with the model's size and many flying models of varying sizes use the same base, I think you should use the body of the model, which I am not a big fan of.

As for tiny units only being able to be attacked once, that makes sense.

 NivNeos wrote:

 Quixote wrote:
How do you shoot at tiny models on clear plastic flight stands?

You can only attack them once, because you are measuring the model, not the base?

Considering I don't think flight bases are a good metric, as they don't correlate with the model's size and many flying models of varying sizes use the same base, I think you should use the body of the model, which I am not a big fan of.

As for tiny units only being able to be attacked once, that makes sense.

Does it?
A Commissar is on a base that's less than 30mm wide. So you'd get two shots at them. A full-sized person, two shots.

I think you'd be better off implementing a Size stat and tying that in to Hit rolls in some way.
A Great Unclean One is currently exactly as easy to hit as a Grot, and that's just silly.

You do not shoot a grot, you shoot a mob of 10-30 Gretchin.

Declaring targets before rolling incentivises splitfiring more which might let more cool vulnerable units live as it does not make sense for units to fire sequencially until a Techmarine dies with almost no overkill, then switch targets.

 NivNeos wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
I have to say I really don't understand the motivation behind this rule. Being able to pump a mad amount of shots into the approaching monster/bad guy is sorta the behavior I expect to see.

Look at the first post, I stated my goal after the quote.

Heh. I mean I don't understand why that is a goal. Like I said, it feels unnatural.

Guardsman: Sir! Sir! There's an Eversor Assassin about to charge our lines!

Colonel: Hold your fire, Soldier! We've already fired at a couple of times... target that empty drop pod on the hill instead.

JNAProductions wrote:

 NivNeos wrote:

 Quixote wrote:
How do you shoot at tiny models on clear plastic flight stands?

You can only attack them once, because you are measuring the model, not the base?

Considering I don't think flight bases are a good metric, as they don't correlate with the model's size and many flying models of varying sizes use the same base, I think you should use the body of the model, which I am not a big fan of.

As for tiny units only being able to be attacked once, that makes sense.

Does it?
A Commissar is on a base that's less than 30mm wide. So you'd get two shots at them. A full-sized person, two shots.

I think you'd be better off implementing a Size stat and tying that in to Hit rolls in some way.
A Great Unclean One is currently exactly as easy to hit as a Grot, and that's just silly.

I agree, a size stat is the best way, but of course it some work as you have to give every unit a stat. The base is like a placeholder for testing. I'm hoping maybe just have some stated base size for exceptions, like swarmers should have a higher size.