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Made in us
Stealthy Kroot Stalker





So had a discussion between two people today on 2+sv in cover with differing views and just wanted to know if there was a definitive ruling on this.

The debate was if a unit with a 2+ sv in cover is hit with an AP-1 attack, if they would retain their 2+ sv because of cover, or that cover could not make a sv better than 3+

The rule states "Does not apply to models with a Save of 3+ or better against attacks with an AP of 0." One person argued that since the attack does not have AP 0, they would get their cover save, making it a 2+; the other person said that since since the save is now 3+ they don't get the benefit of cover and that the text specifically states "3+ or better", and because a 2+ save would never get a benefit from being in cover against AP 0 it wouldn't be specified as part of the rule if it didn't apply in the way they thought.

It was a civil discussion and we just want to know for sure. While I've only seen it played one way, I've been wrong about stuff that I was sure about in the past.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2025/05/24 22:34:32


Armies:  
   
Made in us
Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle





In My Lab

You only do not get the cover bonus if both of the following are true:

-The defending model has a save characteristic of 2+ or 3+
-The attack had an AP of 0

Or if the attack has Ignores Cover.

Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne! 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Also, AP and cover modify *save rolls* not the saves themselves.

So 2+ out of cover hit by AP-1 still have a 2+ save, but you’re at -1 to the dice so they now roll 1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (I.e. a natural 2 is now a 1 so fails).

Getting the benefit of cover adds +1 to the roll which counteracts the -1 so a natural 2 passes again.

The no benefit vs AP0 for 3+ or better rule is mainly there so that 3+ saves don’t double in effectiveness vs small arms in cover (which was a bit much in previous editions).

It’s generally irrelevant for 2+ saves, outside of some nice situations where they get -1 save from other means.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Minnesota

The save remains at 2+, though it could be worded more clearly.

I think there's some Nurgle rust thing that gives -1 to armor saves? In that case if a terminator was rusty and shot by a bolter in the forest he would only get a 3+ save. Very uncommon though.

Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
 
   
 
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