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a member of our gaming group was considering the implications of drop pods entering/scattering into buildings using the new cityfight book.<?

 

but his questions also have broader implications for drop pods entering difficult terrain (like forests) using the regular rules.

 

clearly...

drop pods are vehicles

vehicles that attempt to move thru difficult terrain take difficult terrain tests

drop pods are immobile

if a vehicle rolls an immobile result and is already immobile, it is considered destroyed

 

the results of a destroyed vehicle are a little trickier...

our group is using the "official?" GWS spanish faq that says that deep striking speeders count as moving "over 12" when deep striking in.  so we are "assuming/house ruling" that the drop pod have also moved "over 12", but that it has special rules that allow its occupants to disembark and shoot when landing. 

from that point, the chart in the book takes over for what happens when a vehicle is destroyed that has moved over 12"....

 

is there a gap in his logic? 

 

here were my counter arguments...

i pointed out that vehicles take difficult terrain tests during the movement phase and drop pods don't move in the movement phase, they arrive at the start of the turn before the movement phase.

 

the rules never call drop pods that arrive on the board as "moving".

 

i also pointed out that until drop pods land, they are clearly moving and not "immobile".  so perhaps they should only count as immobile during the movement phase, not during the period that they arrival on the board.  this one seems a stretch since i am trying to use real world logic in a game...

 

more to the point, how can immobile vehicles move?  if you can't move, why would you take a test for moving?

 

the only other thing i could think of is that GWS has published several battles using drop pods and they have never mentioned a drop pod being destroyed in arrival yet.  this assumes that GWS is using their own rules correctly and also assumes that they are telling us everything and not skipping over affects that didn't affect the game.  so maybe the drop pod player took difficult terrain tests and passed every single one.... 

 

additional rules? thoughts?  who is right?

Well the first issue is that Immobilized vehicles that take another Immobilized damage effect are not automatically destroyed. In this case, the second Immobilized result would go to a Weapon Destroyed result, as long as the vehicle had a qualifying weapon present. If there are no qualifying weapons available, then it goes to Vehicle Destroyed.

Sal.

And as stated, is placing the pod on the board movement? I don't see where it is.

Who cares anyway? If a 2nd immoblised result happens, all that would happen is the storm bolter gets destroyed. At BS2, who cares if that storm bolter gets destroyed? The squad inside are still gonna get out and rapid fire your face off.

Hard to argue with that!

I seem to recall somewhere that only main weapons are eligible for weapon destroyed, and it proceeds to immobilized. Is this correct?

I seem to recall somewhere that only main weapons are eligible for weapon destroyed, and it proceeds to immobilized. Is this correct?

Only weapons S4 and above are elligible for weapon destroyed. Basically, everything except the Lasguns on a Chimera.

the effects for vehicles entering difficult terrain and taking a dangerous terrain test is different from taking damage on the penetrating and glancing hits charts, please don't confuse the two, they are very different. page 61

for dangerous terrain tests, if the vehicle has moved over 12", you roll two dice and if you get double ones, the vehicle is destroyed. so we are not debating losing a stormbolter, we are debating destroying the vehicle, and re-rolling wounds for every member inside the vehicle.

that being said, i don't think drop pods move and they don't get placed during the movement phase. which means that forcing it to take movement penalties is silly.

my opponent pointed out that drop pods have to enter play during the movement phase because there isn't anything before movement.

the wording on the drop pods is that "they enter play at the start of the turn", which i read to be the very first action before all other actions.

but there are actions that take place before the movement phase (and drop pods entering would happen before those).

for example, in the blood angel codex, blood rage takes place before the movement phase. it specifically says "before".

another broken link in my opponent's chain of reasoning is that the word "move" is not used when describing how drop pods work. it says "enters play" and "is placed". my opponent thinks that this is rules-lawyerly, but GWS accidentally uses the word "move" when they don't mean "movement in the movement phase", so this strikes me as being deliberate (for example disembarking tells you to move your models "x" distance but doesn't count as movement).

lastly, he has to make two seperate guesses about "designer intent" for his argument to work. one, that drop pods move. two, that drop pods move either 6" or 12" when neither distance is ever hinted at.

either one i could give him. both seems to be looking for something that isn't there.