Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

hi guys

been working on this 1500pt list to represent a small force of inquisitional guardsmen from either an inquisition base or an inquisitors retinue. i would appreciate it if you could look over the list and the addendum at the end and let me know what you all think. so with out any further waffle:

The Alturian 1313th regiment (working title)

DOCTRINES
Grenadiers
Carapace armour
Iron discipline


HQ
Junior officer
Honorific imperialis (=I= orders)
Storm bolter + power weapon
Iron discipline
1 plasma gun
1 heavy bolter team
1 vet + medi-pac*
Carapace armour
Unit total 131

ELITES
Hardened Vets
Vet serg
Power fist + las pistol
2 meltas
7 shotguns
Frag grenades
Carapace armour
Chimera*
-Hull HB
-Turret AC
-Rough terrain
Extra armour Unit total 255

TROOPS
Grenadier squad 1
Vet serg
Storm bolter + power weapon
7 storm troopers
2 plasma
Unit total 136

Grenadier squad 2
Vet serg
Hell pistol + power weapon
7 storm troopers
2 melta
Unit total 131

Platoon Alpha
Junior officer
Bolt pistol + power weapon
Iron discipline
2 melta gun
2 flamer*
Carapace armour
Unit total 103

Squad 1 ? speed hump
Serg ? las pistol + cc
1 missile launcher
1 melta
7 lasguns
Carapace armour
Unit total 101

Squad 2 - holding force
serg ? las pistol + cc
1 missile launcher
1 plasma gun
7 lasguns
Carapace armour
Unit total 105


HEAVY SUPPORT

Leman Russ 1*
Sponson hb
Hull las
Rough terrain mod
Extra armour
Unit total 175

Leman Russ 2*
Sponson hb
Hull las
Rough terrain mod
Extra armour
Unit total 175

Leman Russ Demolisher*
Sponson plasma
Hull HB
Rough terrain mod
Extra armour
Unit total 175


ARMY TOTAL 1498


Items marked with * can be removed for the ability to field extra units. These Extras include:
Standard bearere for command squad ? same points
Lascannon for platoon HQ (remove the flamers) ? HQ now costs 116
2 russes with hull HBs (can be either standard or exterminators) ? russes 165 each, exterminators 145 each
1 basilisk ? 125 pts
2 Lascannon sentinels ? 110 for 2

In addition to this I can drop the chimera and add the Drop Troops doctrine allow the 2 grenadier squads and the hardened vets to deep strike (well teleport in to represent their =I= masters) assuming i can do this, failing that frees up points for hellhounds etc ,

as for the hardened vets squad, i would like to slap a HW weapon in but its hard enough to convert kasrkin without thinking about HWs <!--emo&<img src='http://www.dakkadakka.com/DesktopModules/NTForums/images/emoticons/biggrin.gif'>--><!--endemo--> but i might consider a 3rd special weapon

once ive ordered some more bits ill be starting a mini blog type affair over on the WIP message boards and on dakka in the modelling forum - link to follow soon - hope you can look in on that as well
cheers
millest

It is obvious to me that you are trying to make a "fluffy" kind of list rather than a purely effective list, so I'm not going to comment on how bad I think the Carapace doctrine is. Instead, I'm just going to point out a few things you should really consider trimming or chainging to make your army a bit better.


1) Take Close Order Drill and Drop Troops as your last two doctrines. They are free and quite helpful. I would definitely leave the Chimera at home and drop the Vets. Having one Chimera driving around the board means it will be targeted and destroyed rather quickly.

I also must add that Shotguns are particulary terrible weapons, but I'm guessing you're taking 'em for looks rather than effectiveness.


2) Your Command HQ is way too many points and is too immobile to provide the Ld bubble where you need it. You need to swap the Medi-pack for a Standard pronto, and get rid of the Heavy Bolter (if not the Plasma gun too). You have to keep your Command HQ out of LOS and alive to provide Ld to your army, so giving them weapons is kind of useless (as you'll need LOS to fire them).


3) Your Platoon Command suffers from a personality disorder. Does it want to kill troops or vehicles? And like the Command HQ if you pop them out from behind cover the enemy will target them first and easily eliminate them. Taking only the gear you need/must have on this unit is highly recommended.


4) It is obvious from your list that you are playing your Russes WYSIWYG, but those vehicle upgrades (Rough Terrain Mod and Extra Armor) are both rather pricey and completely useless on these tanks. I have seen many, many, many an IG player use models that have the RT mod and Extra armor modeled on their vehicles, but they don't actually use them in the game. I have never, ever seen anyone complain about this because everyone pretty much understands that the IG vehicle upgrades are mostly all poop.

So in short, take those vehicle upgrades off your vehicles! Give your basic Russes Hull HB's to save points. If you're going to pimp out your Demolisher with Plasma Cannons then a Hull Lascannon isn't a bad investment either (but it's not crucial).


5) Your lack of Lascannons is troubling. I'm sure it's for modeling purposes, but an IG army without any Lascannons is like Ice Cream without a cone. It's just going to make your games that much more difficult to win. I would highly recommend that you consider giving your Platoon squads Lascannons instead of Missile Launchers.

Remember: Generally the Ordnance kills infantry while your Lascannons kill the vehicles!


So with the extra points you're saving from pulling the Vet Chimera, the Command HQ/Platoon Command Heavy/Special weapons, and stripping the Russes, you can put into upgrading your MLs into Lascannons, taking another unit of infantry and perhaps you should consider a small unit of Rough Riders? You could always model them as Jump Pack models, or guys on bikes, but RR's are quite a helpful unit to have around.

hmm ok ill try to answer some of the points and try to make some sense of my list.
at the moment yes im going for the fluff/image of the army. im a great beliver in background and imagery over 100% unbeatable armies, i like a challenge

point A1 - crap-apace, yes ive seen the points and on going over cityfight again and noting the 4+ cover i think this might be an option to possibly drop on most squads, though may keep for the vets with shotties and company HQ as their all modelled using kasrkin base models. we shall see but assuming i drop it from the platoon thats roughly 60pts saved already, enough for a lascannon sentinal!

so on to the rest of the points.

POINT 1
im begining to see the point on the chimera, its a bit of a relic from my armoured company (which is also where my platoon is coming from) so thought it might be useful, with a re-jig it now has autocannon and hull flamer but its still a bullet magnet. with the points i save from this i could field a second lascannon sentinal and a hellhound to bring the lascannon count and the antipersonel count up a bit more.
regarding the vets, i know their costly and the shotties arent too hot but i like the models (again converted kasrkin) and the idea of deep striking them next to my opponenets fire warriors and opening up is just tooooo amusing to pass up on. not to mention their fluffy and not in a cuddly way!

POINT 2
i think you have some valid points on the HQ especailly regarding the medic, and to a certain degree the heavy bolter, but looking at the heavy bolter totting kasrkin in front of me im sooooo tempted to leave him in the squad. it is expensive but i intend this squad to be in cover near the platoon offering moral and fire support. however any advice on a more cost effective and fluffy looking command would be great.

POINT 3
again thought of it from a city fight point of veiw, got to multitask in this day and age and these boys are no exception. however again im open to suggestions on a more suitable weapons fit.
would commisars be worth including in the force?

POINT 4
see the point about the russes, againt tau and marine theur poop anyway so ditched they will be.
re the hull weapons, the lascannons along side the possible sentinals are their for the AT help and the HB on the demo is their to cope with stealth suits and scouts who like it up close and personal, however i do have enough russ chassis' to mix it up a little with out any problems, might even try a varient with my conqueror in there.

POINT 5
at the moment you are right about the lascannons from a modelling point of veiw and for the fact the general concensus seems to be multipule shots in city fight is better then one hight powered shot, however with the russ and possibly 2 las cannon sentinals do i need anymore?
also if i need more is it worth attaching a special/heavy weapons sqaud to the company HQ for this? give me three teams?



so as things stand im considering adding:
2 lascannon sents
1 hellhound
1 anti tank squad

in exchange for:
most carapace armour
chimera
russ upgrades.

any more solutions or advice?
cheers
millest

You never mentioned that this was a cityfighting list. That changes a whole bunch of things!

It makes Carapace even that much worse an idea since in general you'll be using the cover save anyway.

Are you painting your Ksarkin with a camo pattern? If so, you could give them Cameoleoline instead for some guard who will really be able to stand up to a shoot-out in Cityfight.

I also think that 2 Russes and a Demolisher aren't very good for Cityfight. I think you are much better off taking 2 Demolishers and putting the extra points into one or two Hellhounds.

In cityfight it is also much less important that your Demolishers have the longer range that Plasma Cannons provide, so I'd ditch 'em and stick with x3 Heavy Bolters.

In Cityfight the Rough Terrain modification is actually a really good purchase for your vehicles, so I retract what I said about that (although the extra armor is still completely uneeded).

I also agree that I've seen much less vehicles in Cityfight, so the need for Lascannons is greatly reduced (especially if you're Deep Striking some melta toting vets onto the board).

Especially if you end up taking Cameoleoline you could consider leaving the HB in your Command HQ and just keeping them in some nice 3+ cover saves. Just know they're still going to be the #1 enemy target because they are a small pricey unit. You definitely need to take a Standard Bearer instead of the medic, no matter what.

I would never take Commissars. They are just too expensive for what they can provide. You've already got a tiny force, you're going to need to try to pack in some models where you can.

Just a quick note carapace are an all or nothing doctrine, either all have it or none do.

I agree on having a 4+/3+ cover save for half the cost...

so taking some of those veiws and ideas in to account ive decided to have another go at the list working heavily towards a city fight army but ive hopefully created an alround IG force as well. this list is using all the models i currently have (not nessecarily built) and hopefully making the best use of them.
all storm troopers and vets are using kasrkin models to represent inquisitional troopers leading the inducted guard even though for this army list they arent inquisitonal troops, once its all painted you'll see why.
so heres the list:

DOCTRINES
Grenadiers
Carapace armour
Iron discipline
Close order drill
Drop troops


HQ
Junior officer
Honorific imperialis (=I= orders)
Storm bolter + power weapon
Iron discipline
1 plasma gun
1 heavy bolter team
1 vet + medi-pac*
Carapace armour
Unit total 131

ASSIGEND SUPPORT
3 sentinals
1 lascannon
2 flamer 40
armoured crew comps
Unit total 180

ELITES
Hardened Vets
Vet serg
Power fist + las pistol
2 meltas
7 shotguns
Frag grenades
Carapace armour
Unit total 155

TROOPS
Grenadier squad 1
Vet serg
Storm bolter + power weapon
7 storm troopers
2 plasma
Unit total 136

Grenadier squad 2
Vet serg
Hell pistol + power weapon
7 storm troopers
2 melta
Unit total 131

Platoon Alpha
Junior officer
Bolt pistol + power weapon
Iron discipline
2 melta gun
2 flamer*
Unit total 83

Squad 1
Serg ? las pistol + cc
1 missile launcher
1 plasma gun
7 lasguns
Unit total 85

Squad 2
serg ? las pistol + cc
1 missile launcher
1 plasma gun
7 lasguns
Unit total 85

Squad 3
serg ? las pistol + cc
1 heavy bolter
1 grenade launcher
7 lasguns
Unit total 78



FAST ATTACK

Hellhound*
Rough terrain mod
Unit total 120



HEAVY SUPPORT

Leman Russ Demolisher*
Sponson plasma
Hull HB
Rough terrain mod
Unit total 170

Basilisk*
Indirect fire
Armoured crew compartment
Unit total 145


ARMY TOTAL 1506

a few points over but im unsure as what to keep or lose to lower the cost, mind you once people have had a look other ideas might arise.


again Items marked with * can be removed for the ability to field extra units. These Extras include:
Standard for command squad ? same points - not doing yet a no decent kasrkin based models about
Lascannon for platoon HQ (remove the flamers) ? HQ now costs 116
2 russes with hull HBs (can be either standard or exterminators) ?russes 165 each, exterminators 145 each
chimera for the vet squad 100pts
might drop meltas in HQ for normal troopers



in addition to this lot I will also need to model the following armoured fist squads for my armoured company im currently building (shown as normal squads in the other list) shown below at a later date, but in addition to this I will no doubt model a second platoon command squad so the models can be used as a second platoon if I drop their chimeras.

Here ate the Armoured fist of the squads I intend to model:
*****Squad 1 - rapid response*****
vet serg - plasma pistol + close combat weapon
1 melta gun
8 lasguns
chimera - auto cannon, hull HB, HK and smoke

*****Squad 2 - holding force*****
vet serg - storm bolter and close combat weapons
1 missile launcher
1 plasma gun
7 lasguns
chimera - autocannon, hull HB, HK and smoke

any veiws on these two squads as well?
cheers
millest