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Hi, I'm the chaplaingrabthar who used to hang out on Imperial Dakka, I've recently been semi-lurking here as the mysterious lost_limey, but I decided to delete that account with extreme prejudice and use the name that more dakkites would be familiar with.

Anyway, here's the situation. A little after the new Tyranid codex was released, I became disillusioned with GW and their fetishistic love of MEQ forces and subsequent hatred of non-MEQ forces, so I basically sold all my models and quit 'The Games Workshop Hobby'.

Unfortunately, I didn't get rid of my rulebooks and my resolve is rather weak, so when I was buying some paints for a scale model spitfire I had built, I happened to see something called Codex: Tau Empire in the corner of the hobby store. Since I've been a fan of Tau since their inception, it seemed liek a voice whispering to me seductivle 'join ussss, return to the hobby you loved, who needs food and healthcare and all that other frippery you've been wasting your money on.' So i gave in.

To cut this ramble short, I've come up with the following 1850pt Tau list, but I'm still in a little bit of an old codex/3rd edition mindset, so I'd greatly appreicate comments on how to turn this intoa viable take all comers at all levels (alpha, gamma, omega) force. I'm pretty flexible right now, as the sole model I own for thislist is an Ethereal. Here's the list.

 

<TABLE width="50%"> <TBODY> <TR> <TH colSpan=3>HQ 1</TH></TR> <TR> <TD>1</TD> <TD>Commander Shas'O</TD> <TD align=right>50</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD>Twin-Linked Missile Pods</TD> <TD align=right>18</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD>Plasma Rifle</TD> <TD align=right>20</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD>Hard-wired Blacksun Filter</TD> <TD align=right>3</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD>Hard-wired Multi-Tracker</TD> <TD align=right>5</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD> </TD> <TD align=right>96</TD></TR> <TR> <TD colSpan=3> </TD></TR> <TR> <TH colSpan=3>HQ 2</TH></TR> <TR> <TD>1</TD> <TD>Ethereal</TD> <TD align=right>50</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD> </TD> <TD align=right>50</TD></TR> <TR> <TD colSpan=3> </TD></TR> <TR> <TH colSpan=3>Elites 1</TH></TR> <TR> <TD>6</TD> <TD>XV25 Stealthsuits</TD> <TD align=right>180</TD></TR> <TR> <TD>2</TD> <TD>Fusion Blasters</TD> <TD align=right>4</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD> </TD> <TD align=right>184</TD></TR> <TR> <TD colSpan=3> </TD></TR> <TR> <TH colSpan=3>Elites 2</TH></TR> <TR> <TD>6</TD> <TD>XV25 Stealthsuits</TD> <TD align=right>180</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD> </TD> <TD align=right>180</TD></TR> <TR> <TD colSpan=3> </TD></TR> <TR> <TH colSpan=3>Troops 1</TH></TR> <TR> <TD>12</TD> <TD>Fire Warriors</TD> <TD align=right>120</TD></TR> <TR> <TD>1</TD> <TD>Devilfish APC</TD> <TD align=right>80</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD>Targetting Array</TD> <TD align=right>5</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD>Multi-Tracker</TD> <TD align=right>10</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD> </TD> <TD align=right>215</TD></TR> <TR> <TD colSpan=3> </TD></TR> <TR> <TH colSpan=3>Troops 2</TH></TR> <TR> <TD>12</TD> <TD>Fire Warriors</TD> <TD align=right>120</TD></TR> <TR> <TD>1</TD> <TD>Devilfish APC</TD> <TD align=right>80</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD>Targetting Array</TD> <TD align=right>5</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD>Multi-Tracker</TD> <TD align=right>10</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD> </TD> <TD align=right>215</TD></TR> <TR> <TD colSpan=3> </TD></TR> <TR> <TH colSpan=3>Troops 3</TH></TR> <TR> <TD>11</TD> <TD>Fire Warriors</TD> <TD align=right>110</TD></TR> <TR> <TD>1</TD> <TD>Shas'ui</TD> <TD align=right>20</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD> </TD> <TD align=right>130</TD></TR> <TR> <TD colSpan=3> </TD></TR> <TR> <TH colSpan=3>Troops 4</TH></TR> <TR> <TD>12</TD> <TD>Kroot Carnivores</TD> <TD align=right>84</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD> </TD> <TD align=right>84</TD></TR> <TR> <TD colSpan=3> </TD></TR> <TR> <TH colSpan=3>Troops 5</TH></TR> <TR> <TD>12</TD> <TD>Kroot Carnivores</TD> <TD align=right>84</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD> </TD> <TD align=right>84</TD></TR> <TR> <TH colSpan=3>Fast Attack 1</TH></TR> <TR> <TD>1</TD> <TD>Vespid Strain Leader</TD> <TD align=right>22</TD></TR> <TR> <TD>5</TD> <TD>Stingwings</TD> <TD align=right>80</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD> </TD> <TD align=right>102</TD></TR> <TR> <TD colSpan=3> </TD></TR> <TR> <TH colSpan=3>Fast Attack 2</TH></TR> <TR> <TD>3</TD> <TD>Piranha Light Skimmers</TD> <TD align=right>180</TD></TR> <TR> <TD>3</TD> <TD>Decoy Launchers</TD> <TD align=right>15</TD></TR> <TR> <TD>1</TD> <TD>Fusion Blaster</TD> <TD align=right>5</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD> </TD> <TD align=right>200</TD></TR> <TR> <TD colSpan=3> </TD></TR> <TR> <TH colSpan=3>Heavy Support 1</TH></TR> <TR> <TD>3</TD> <TD>Hammerhead Gunship</TD> <TD align=right>90</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD>Railgun</TD> <TD align=right>50</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD>Smart Missile System</TD> <TD align=right>20</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD>Target Lock</TD> <TD align=right>5</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD>Multi-Tracker</TD> <TD align=right>10</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD>Decoy Launcher</TD> <TD align=right>5</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD> </TD> <TD align=right>180</TD></TR> <TR> <TD colSpan=3> </TD></TR> <TR> <TH colSpan=3>Heavy Support 2</TH></TR> <TR> <TD>3</TD> <TD>Hammerhead Gunship</TD> <TD align=right>90</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD>Ion Cannon</TD> <TD align=right>15</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD>Gun Drones</TD> <TD align=right>20</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD>Decoy Launcher</TD> <TD align=right>5</TD></TR> <TR> <TD> </TD> <TD> </TD> <TD align=right>130</TD></TR> <TR> <TD colSpan=3> </TD></TR> <TR> <TH colSpan=2>GRAND TOTAL</TH> <TH align=right>1850</TH></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

So, help an oldbie/newbie out, legions of dakka devotees!

Well, the old codex 4th edition 'power force' was 3 Railheads, kroot, and lots of suits. No-ones entirely sure what the empier codex 'power force' is, but the old style force will work very well still.

I thought the title said 1850 Tau Empire List for CC. Hence I thought you used things that were good in CC in your tau army. I answered as I was under the impression there were none. Turns out i'm still right.

Chuck

Hopefully I can be a little more helpful. I've played Tau since they were first released under 3rd Ed. so I would consider myself a veteran of the Tau, though I am still learning new tricks and tactics with the new codex.

1) Personally I would drop the Ethereal. He used to be an effective and cheap HQ choice in the old codex, but the new one nerfed his rules enough that I won't even consider one as a points filler now.

2) Your Elites and Shas'el (the term you were looking for) are solid, however I am just curious why you don't include more crisis suits, as they can provide your anti MEQ firepower and assist in taking down light armor.

3) Your troops are solid, I'm not a huge fan of Kroot myself but that is just personal tastes.

4) I'm concerned that your vespids won't have enough numbers to really be effective. Also Piranhas are...iffy. They are quite expensive and while very cool, I have a hard time trying to define their role in the army. I think the best use of them is to move 24" down the board and have someone launch a seeker missile from them into the side armor of enemy tanks.

5) One railgun? I don't like this. Railguns are some of the Tau's best assets. I would include atleast 2 in a force this big.

6) You don't have any markerlights in this force. The new codex really gave markerlights a big boost. They can really help stealth suits out, and with as many as your taking I would strongly advise you find some points to get a couple in there.

Hope that helped.

Shas o with twin-anything is not a good deal. He misses 16% of the time, and with missiles that isn't even a good deal, fusion I can see, just in case, but not missiles. (The default a lot of people are using now is a shas'el with targetting array, plasma and missiles and a HW multi ending at 97 pts)

Stealths with fusion equal stealths people can see. Not a good combination.

Troops are okay, but if you are going to take the ethereal, take out the Shas'ui and put the ethereal in and have them be an honor guard. BS4.

If you take a unit they should be outfitted to kill the same thing. Stealths with fusion means you kill tanks and termies with 2 models and scores of GeQ with the others. Not a good thing. Piranhas have the same issue.

I would drop the fusion from the stealths and go with a unit of crisis suits. Give em plasma + fusion if worried about MeQ, or fireknife (plas/missile). 1 or 2 suits is fine.

Piranha team can get turned into 2 teams easily. A loner with fusion for tank-hunting and the other two with BC so they can harras infantry.

10 Kroot is fine for most things and easier to place.

I don't bother with an Ioncannon until I have at least 2 railguns, I would recommend finding the way to do it.

The list is not bad. It is drawing on the generalist playstyle that Tau can have (units can do a little of everything in some spots) but it is not concentrating on its weaknesses. You have exactly 5 AP2 or better guns and 7 AP3. Your output of fire that can kill units with certainty in critical situations is dependant on 3 12" range guns and a single plasma and railgun. This can really hurt you.

My 1850 list sports 9AP 2 or better and 7AP3. Those 4 guns make a huge difference. I sometimes think I need some more AP2+ guns.

Right, the consensus among those who seem to want to help is that I should add more Crisis and re-jigger my HQ around a a bit. (It is a Shas'el and not a Shas'O, but I hope y'all figured that from the 50pt cost), and that I need to increase my Ap2 & Ap3 capabilities, to that end, should I dump the Piranhas and trim the Kroot in order to swith to 2 Railheads & a broadside team, or am I better off shoehorning seeker missiles and the like everywhere?

Are Crisis really that good now, considering how they were universally lauded as being crap compared to Stealtth under the old dex?

True. But Dakka Tau discussion has evolved over the past two years, moving from a situation where Stealth Teams were considered the optimal Tau elite choice unit, almost to the exclusion of Crisis Teams, to the present situation where Crisis Teams are looked at far more favourably and all-Crisis armies are currently under discussion. This is not to say we got it wrong ? the Stealth Unit is very good! Rather, the development has occurred with the arrival of Warhammer 40,000 IV.

i) New Terrain rules, where 25% terrain is demanded, and the introduction of Size categories, have enabled the large Crisis Suit to find more hiding places, enabling better and more distributed placement.

ii) The ending of transport ?rushing? has enabled Crisis Suits to sit behind terrain for extended periods. In 3rd edition a determined opponent could ?rush? them out of cover, driving them into the open where they could be instantly killed by heavy weapons. Stealth carried their terrain with them. This in my books is key.

iii) The relative de-powerment of indirect weapons. A Basilisk can still, of course wipe out a squad of Crisis in one blow, but its now much harder, with 2 dice on the scatter. Despite there being more terrain, the change in indirect rules and arrival of escalation has resulted in less indirect being played nowadays.

And course Tau empire makes Crisis cheaper, especially the missile pod variants.

Still not convinced about the Deathrain. The lack of the Fireknife's Plasma Punch (tm) and its versatiliity seems too limiting in this configuration.

Definetely need another hammerhead or ASSides.

Leave the stingwings at home

Split the Pirahnnas into separate units.