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I have 2 squads of Night Lords in Rhinos. I am leaning towards bolters and 2 plasma guns. Can't assault out of a Rhino anyway. 1 Plasma is definately remaining in the squad. For the secondary weapon I am thinking Lascannon or Missile Launcher. Whats worked for you guys?

2 plasmas means you can fire both when you hop out, which you wouldn't be able to to with a heavy weapon. I would avoid heavy weapons altogether in a squad in a rhino since it appears you want to get up close and personal or you wouldn't buy the rhino.

I would go with the 2 plasma guns too. The rhino has a 1-2 turn lifespan in a 40K game so you want something with a range of, at least 24." That way you can shoot after you are forced to disembark. You will also want something that lets you move and shoot since rhino's always die where you don't want them too, that way your squad can shoot while moving to their objective.

Darrian

I like the EC with Blastmaster and plasma gun.

Oh hell yeah Lemartes. The best part of the EC marines is that they are fearless so they will not have to take pinning rolls when the rhino is destroyed. If the rhino explodes they will still be entangled though.

Darrian

Posted By DonkeyCannon on 07/17/2006 11:58 AM
I have 2 squads of Night Lords in Rhinos. I am leaning towards bolters and 2 plasma guns. Can't assault out of a Rhino anyway. 1 Plasma is definately remaining in the squad. For the secondary weapon I am thinking Lascannon or Missile Launcher. Whats worked for you guys?

Depends if you want to keep moving with that squad or set it up as a fire-base.  If the former, 2 plasma.  If the latter, Lascannon.  I still think, though, barring meltdowns, that the 2 plasma guns are also pretty good at anti-vehicle work, at S7. 

I would make sure to get a P-fist on the asp champ, and maybe even melta-bombs, when that enemy tank doesn't think you're a threat, and stays still 

Posted By Darrian13 on 07/17/2006 2:14 PM
Oh hell yeah Lemartes. The best part of the EC marines is that they are fearless so they will not have to take pinning rolls when the rhino is destroyed. If the rhino explodes they will still be entangled though.

Darrian

Correct me if I am totally wrong, but with V4, there is no "pinning" of units for vehicles being destroyed.  Any time a vehicle is made into a "wreck" or explodes, the passengers are entangled; fearless notwithstanding.

Sal.

Correct me if I am totally wrong, but with V4, there is no "pinning" of units for vehicles being destroyed. Any time a vehicle is made into a "wreck" or explodes, the passengers are entangled; fearless notwithstanding.

I think Darrian meant to say they won't have to take a pinning test if their Rhino takes a penetrating hit.

Chris is correct. The amazing thing about Bigchris1313 is that he knows so much about 40K but yet does not play the game. Actually, I am not sure he even owns a 40K army. I know he is a WFB player though.

Darrian

Try a couple of melta guns, I have pairs of plasma gunners in my word bearers and they can't wait to self immolate. Also the melta guns can fire as you charge, you will find that usefull against power armoured armies.

I wouldn't put a heavy weapon in a 10 man squad delivered by Rhino, the jobs they are likely to be doing for you will be mobile (otherwise why the rhino) so it may not get any shots off anyway.

When would you rather charge in with 2 meltas and a bunch of S4 AP- attacks when you could sit back and fire 4 Plasma shots and a bunch of AP5 shots?

Maybe if it was a very small squad with a tooled champ. That is an option. Crazy champ with meltas and the rest with BP + CCW

"When would you rather charge in with 2 meltas and a bunch of S4 AP- attacks when you could sit back and fire 4 Plasma shots and a bunch of AP5 shots?"

Ummm...when you want to get an extra 6" charge move, + either *more* movement from consolidation or being protected from plasma-fire during the enemy's turn?

I like my Plague Marine squads with twin Meltas, and a BP+PF champion. I seem to always fail the saves on Plasma overheats, and losing one or two 29-32 point model really hurts. By the time I get in charge range, I've lost a few guys so I'm not sacrificing that many bolter shots in order to fire 2 meltas + 1 bolt pistol and then charge.

Marines can usually hold their own in any situation. Problem is if I have your carnifex coming at me I would rather stand still for 2 turns and fire plasma at him and if by some chance he survives I still have that powerfist to take out the last wound on the fex. BTW have time for a game this week?

Of course I have a 40k army! The Tri-Falcon Ghost Warriors of Iyanden are waiting for their new codex in order to make the game fun again, and perhaps the army might even become viable. If Wraithguard become the new Terminators, I might even drop the Falcons for the 20 WG I have still in blisters. Who knows? When the Eldar codex comes out, I might even play 40k for the first time in a year.

Darrian, does Dennis still do gaming his garage every other Friday? And if so, when's the next one? (I've been working in NYC all summer, but I'm coming home next week)

'cannon: If you plink a 'fex with 4 plasma shots, that's an average of 3 hits, 2 wounds (S7 vs T6). And why would I charge my fex to land in range of your powerfist? I'd throw some gaunts at the Fist end to lock it, and bring the Fex in >2" away to clean up the guys scratching at it with their penknives

Charging with 2 meltas, you still get one or two wounds with shooting, and then *you* get to charge, get one extra 'Fist attack, and make sure that the Fist is in position to swing at the Fex.

Personally, I'd lascannon/missile the bejesus out of fexes at range rather than try to melta/plasma them, unless I could bring two squads to bear. Two turns of a Dev squad or all-las predator should drop any fex.

No time for game this week - I have a date tonight, then I've got to go out of town Thurs/Fri. We should definitely set up a game for next week though! I'm busy next Tuesday, otherwise I'm free. Email my rinks account.

@Bigchris, Yes Dennis still does open gaming every Friday night. I will make sure that there is some WFB for next Friday if you are gonna show up.

Darrian

I won't be home until a week from this Saturday. I might want to show up the next week just to watch 40k. These Eldar rumors have my interest piqued.

Has anyone just sat in the wreckage of the rhino for cover saves while firing? The only units I have used in a rhino have been berskerkers and we know they can't sit still.

I do like the idea of plasma in a rhino squad too. 2 plasma attacks, possibly 4, that can still fire plus all those bolter shots. The melta shots are banking on getting close enough to fire / assault to make it worth it.

Strangelooper, why not use a plaguesword instead of a pf? I know the str 8 powerweapon is nice but doesnt the auto-killing most units have appeal? I ask because Im thinking about a squad of Nurgle marines in my black legion that infiltrate with meltas and the champ having a plaguesword. I must be honest though, after sitting and painting a couple of the plague marines I am drawn to the grandfather now.

Must. Resist. More. GW. Models. Im hoping my LATD army fills my need.

Plaguesword blows. St8 powerweapons already autokill everything that's important anyways and they only need 2+ to wound, even without any other upgrades. A plaguesword costs what 25 points, plus you need DS, furious charge, and probably mutation to make it worthwile, coming out to a 33-43 point item, while a fist costs 15, and a fist with mutation costs 25, or a darkblade costs 25 and with the same upgrades you give to a plaguesword makes the model ST8, I5, instant killing anything that matters, plus wounding big models on better anyways.

I was under the impression that the plaguesword was about 15 points for champs. It just seemed like a funny way to deal with carnifexes. 4+ isnt too hard to get on a dice roll. The initiative of pf's always bothered me. If you actually get a chance to swing the fist and kill something with it, wouldnt that mean that either you are very lucky or the unit you are fighting is almost not worth the powerfist?

Plaguesword is 15 pts for champs, Fist is 25 pts. But I always take a Fist on my ACs, except for the Daemonhost. He gets the Plaguesword and Daemonchains, so I resist possession as long as possible, to have an S7 Powerweapon that kills outright half the time. And then once he dies, it's GUO as a bonus (until killed by instability).

Basically, I find that the Fist gives more versatility. I'd much rather have an S8 power weapon that goes last, than an S4 (or even S5 with Daemonic Strength) Power Weapon that *may* cause extra wounds if it manages to wound in the first place - and has no threat value vs vehicles. Once the Plaguesword pops up to S7 (due to the GD's strength coming through the 'host) the Plaguesword wins out though.

Most things with multiple wounds have high toughness - any hit with the Fist is pretty sure to wound. With the S4 or S5 Plaguesword, getting that first wound in order to even get the chance to roll for the kill-outright can be difficult. The Plaguesword is probably better against low toughness characters, in that you only need him to fail one invulnerable save in order to get a 50% kill-outright chance. But against Fexes etc, the Fist is better.

The thing about Deathguard is that with T5/Sv3+, you can almost always be sure to survive until Init1 to throw the Fist.

Plaguesword is only 15 pts, vs 25 for the Fist.

With Deathguard's T5/Sv3+, the AC is usually still around to throw the Fist at Init 1. And the Fist will more consistently wound high-toughness models, and vehicles. The Plaguesword can't wound vehicles/dreads, and will often have trouble making its to-wound roll in order to even get the 50% chance of outright-killing. If you *do* take the Plaguesword on an AC, make sure to give him Dstrength, to make it S5. But that makes the cost equal to the Fist.

I give Fists to all my ACs, except the Daemonhost. With the GUO's S7, the 'host can make much better use of a Plaguesword. Odds are he'll get more than one wound on a character, which means he may get one that doesn't get invulnerable-saved. And he can threaten high-toughness creatures and vehicles. And when he dies, you get a GUO popping out for more fun! I always take Chains for the 'host, to keep the GUO in until the host dies.

Give him Furious Charge for an S8 Plaguesword if you've got extra points kicking around...

WHoops, double post. Thought I'd lost the first one due to having a Mac at work.

I guess this makes it a triple! Dur...I'll stop now.

As a general rule, it's less efficient to mix different types of weapons in a squad.

But, chaos marines in a rhino are an exception: they actually work well with a flamer and a meltagun (plus a powerfist and the rest with bp & ccw). They can threaten the heaviest vehicle, and they can threaten a horde. Against MEQs packed into cover, the flamer does more damage than a plasma. The fraction of an MEQ kill that you give up by not taking two plasmas is more than compensated by the cost savings, flexibility, and the fact that nobody overheats.

Only really applies to rhino squads, though.

fist is 15 pts. 25 for characters.