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If a vehicle fails its difficult terrain check and is immobilized when it is attempting to enter terrain, does it stop before it enters the terrain, when a very small portion of it is in the terrain (even so much as a millimeter); or when it is fully, but only barely within that terrain?

I believe option B, because if the vehicle is immobilized before it enters the terrain, then it has not entered the terrain, and therefore is not subject to being immobilized by that difficult terrain - a logical endless loop. Therefore, I understand the rule to be that at least a tiny portion of the vehicle must be inside the terrain before the test is made, and therefore would remain there upon immobilization. Thoughts?

It stops at the edge of the terrain, so it should stop with the edge of the main body even with the edge of the terrain piece. Does the possibly overlapping 1mm or logical conundrum of wether it entered yet to cause the roll affect gameplay in any way?

Very much. If you are in the terrain, at all, you can be shot at by people on the other side fo the woods - if you are outside of that terrain, then you cannot - even if the terrain is only an inch deep.

It effects gameplay if the terrain is area terrain less than 6" wide.

I'm not sure about this one. Is the edge considered to be part of the terrain? At first glance, I would say yes. (of course I also play WM/Hordes, where the edge of something is clearly included in "within" statements per official clarifications)

The edge of the terrain is an infinitessimally thin line which the vehicle is touching at at least one point (tangent). Is that point part of the terrain?
If the answer is yes, then the vehicle is within the terrain.

In that case the edge of the terrain is simply a boundary and the model does not count as being in the terrain. Touching does not mean in/on because if it did then when your bases touched in assault you would count as being "overlapping another base" which is not allowed. 

dude you answered your own question in the rules you quoted from

"immobilized when it is attempting to enter terrain"

it is immobilized as it makes the attempt to enter

therefore it is not actually in the terrain but stops at the edge of said terrain piece it attempted to enter.

yet another reason you should always take a dozer blade/terrain modifier etc..

I know the game lacks logic but it seems impossible to get bogged down in difficult terrain without actually entering the terrain. A horse can refuse a jump but a tank cannot.

It makes about as much sense as being able to see into 6" of terrain, but not through 1" of terrain.

Besides, if it's imperial tanks we're musing about, maybe the machine spirit could refuse to jump into some trees.

Posted By Moz on 07/26/2006 1:23 PM
It makes about as much sense as being able to see into 6" of terrain, but not through 1" of terrain.

Besides, if it's imperial tanks we're musing about, maybe the machine spirit could refuse to jump into some trees.

If the machine spirit gets really angry it could reverse the flushing mechanism in the Land Raider's lavatory.

So, you would say that area terrain counts as essentially being a "brick wall" - the tank slams into it and stops?

There are some unclear points about area terrain - say you have a foot infantry moving 5" through clear terrain, and then 1" in area terrain. By RAW, you roll 2d6 and move the higher. So, if you roll two ones, you move 1" (still fully in the clear) and stop. Not that I ever see it played that way, but that is the correct way. So perhaps I can be convinced of the "brick wall" theory - but as Blue Loki points out, does the vehicle then count as being on the other side of the terrain, or being a part of it as being "on the edge"?

Posted By Antonin on 07/26/2006 2:40 PM
So, you would say that area terrain counts as essentially being a "brick wall" - the tank slams into it and stops?

There are some unclear points about area terrain - say you have a foot infantry moving 5" through clear terrain, and then 1" in area terrain. By RAW, you roll 2d6 and move the higher. So, if you roll two ones, you move 1" (still fully in the clear) and stop. Not that I ever see it played that way, but that is the correct way. So perhaps I can be convinced of the "brick wall" theory - but as Blue Loki points out, does the vehicle then count as being on the other side of the terrain, or being a part of it as being "on the edge"?

Actually I'm just saying what the rules say, the vehicle stops at the edge of the terrain for whatever reason the rules decide that to be. Your infantry examples are correct but have nothing to do with the vehicle rules. The fluff for the infantry is that a cautious approach is the reason for their lack on movement even if they don't enter the terrain, not becuase they are slowed climbing through it.

I've got players in my group that don't want to roll difficult terrain tests to hop over a regular wall but to do so for a "broken" wall (same thing with a chunk out) because "logically" a foot soldeir knows how to jump over a wall but not if it has been damaged apparently. Real world common sense isn't so common.

Well, that's exactly what we're discussing. Does "stop at the edge of" mean on the edge, or does the vehicle stop before entering? That's why I was trying to elucidate further your point, but your last post negates my attempt. So, is the tank on the line, or stops immediately before it?

The rules say exactly "If it [the vehicle] was attempting to enter difficult terrain it stops just outside" (on failing the test.)

That's conclusive. It may not be logical or realistic but it's what the rules say.

Posted By Antonin on 07/26/2006 3:42 PM
Well, that's exactly what we're discussing. Does "stop at the edge of" mean on the edge, or does the vehicle stop before entering? That's why I was trying to elucidate further your point, but your last post negates my attempt. So, is the tank on the line, or stops immediately before it?

As per my first post, not overlapping/inside/occupying/on/in or any other variation of being "in" the area terrain, but touching the edge. I attempted to give the bases touching example of how I thought it would be placed since since vehicles don't always have bases to touch, maybe it was not clear enough.

No, the vehicle is not in the terrain for any gameplay reason.

Well, then, reversing your vehicles around is really the sound tactical way to play.

Posted By Antonin on 07/27/2006 11:40 AM
Well, then, reversing your vehicles around is really the sound tactical way to play.

 

well if your refering to after you failed your difficult terrain test it isn't going anywhere unless you have a tech marines to fix it or it is a rhino that can re-start on a 6+ since it counts as immobilised for the rest of the game.

 

a better tactic is to put hat nice cheap dozer blade upgrade on your tanks so you can re-roll that 1

Yes, but the best tactic is to put the dozer blade on and still drive backwards.

@mughi, it only works when moving <6" so although useful on Preds/Land Raiders etc. it is useless on Rhino's