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In a trait marine list ( non-Templars ) and one force org. chart can you take 3 LRCs as Heavy support options?

I was playing with Army builder and made a 2000 point list with 3 of these badboys in it.

I know its a stupid question but, I wanted to ask.

Thanks lots.

Does the codex list the Land Raider Crusader as a '0-1' choice? If not, why wouldn't you be able to take three of them?

I thought the "0-1" was still in effect.
I might put 2 in the list as 3 would be alot of points.
I still use assault termies and having 16 furiouscharging guys running out of 2 raiders would be a site to see.

Thanks for helping.

Don't trust army builder, check your codex.

Posted By snooggums on 08/03/2006 10:46 AM
Don't trust army builder, check your codex.

Uh, if you would notice that AB was correct in this case and agrees with the codex.

Posted By Ghaz on 08/03/2006 10:48 AM

Posted By snooggums on 08/03/2006 10:46 AM
Don't trust army builder, check your codex.

Uh, if you would notice that AB was correct in this case and agrees with the codex.

His original post was "Army Builder lets me do it, is it legal?" I didn't question or post contrary to the legality of the selection, I was pointing out that you shouldn't trust Army Builder in general, you should always check your codex.

Except once again, Army Builder was right and is right more often than not.

As Land Raiders can be taken as dedicated transports, and dedicated transports do not take up any force org chart selections (see top of page 35 in the SM codex) you can in theory take 8 Land Raiders in a standard FOC. Assuming the term "Land Raiders" includes LR Crusanders...

Posted by Lewzor The Grate on 08/04/2006 8:09 PM
Assuming the term "Land Raiders" includes LR Crusanders...

'Land Raiders' and 'Land Raider Crusaders' are two distinct units with their own army list entries. When the rules refer to a 'Land Raider', then that is what they mean.

If the "Land Raider Crusader" isn't a Land Raider why isn't it just called a Crusader? And why does its entry in the codex repeatedly refer to it as just a Land Raider:
"Weapons: the Land Raider is armed with a hull-mounted twin-linked assault cannon... "

By the same argument Terminator Command Squads cannot use drop pods, as the drop pod rules state "any Command Squad" and "any Terminator Squad" but not "any Terminator Command Squad." If a Land Raider Crusader isn't a Land Raider, then a Terminator Command Squad isn't a Command Squad either.

One for the FAQ, if it comes out during our lifetimes...

A Land Raider is a 'Land Raider' whereas a Land Raider Crusader is a 'Land Raider Crusader'. The terms are not interchageable.

As Ghaz is noting, they are separate units and have completely separate listings in the force org chart. If they were the same, the listing would be similar to the V4 version of the speeder, allowing upgrades to a different type.

So are you trying to say that you can't assault out of a Land Raider Crusader if it moved?

Posted By skyth 08/07/2006 4:50 PM
So are you trying to say that you can't assault out of a Land Raider Crusader if it moved?

Where did you get that from?

From saying that a land raider crusader isn't a land raider...(Unless the LRC has the special rule of being able to assault from it in it's own profile)

From page 62 of the Warhammer 40,000 4th edition rulebook:

After disembarking, models may shoot... but may not assault unless the vehicle has 'open-topped' noted in its profile, is a Land Raider (or one of its variants) or did not move before the passengers disembarked.

I think it's pretty clear that the Land Raider Crusader, while not actually a 'Land Raider' is indeed a variant of a Land Raider.

Space Marines Scouts are variants of Space Marines.

If the Crusader notes it grants the assault ability then it has it, if not it does not.

Ghaz are you able to access the marine codex currently and note if the LRC denotes language stating its a variant (thus putting this to bed)?

In the LRC entry, the terms "Land Raider," "Crusader," and "Land Raider Crusader" are used interchangably. I think that's sufficient evidence to prove that the LRC is indeed a LR.

The fact the name 'Land Raider Crusader' contains the words 'Land Raider' should be sufficient evidence it is a Land Raider variant. See also Forgeworld variants, Helios Land Raider, and Land Raider Promethius Command Tank. Arguing otherwise is daft, a Land Raider Crusader is hardly a Rhino variant, is it?

I guess the "squad numbering 5 models or less" bit might be a clue that the designers didn't intend Crusaders to be used as dedicated transports (as they can take 8 termies.) Or maybe its just an oversight because the Crusader was added relatively late in the design process.

I'm still not certain whether termie command squads in prop pods are technically legal or not. The TCS entry in the codex does refer to them as a command squad once, but it could still be argued a TCS is a seperate entry from the command squad, and therefore not included on the list of those that can use pods.