Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Okay so this is my 1st CSM list and I've been toying with a mixed Nurgle/ unmarked list. Without further ado the list

HQ (154 pts)
CSM Lord w/ d. stature, d. strength, d. flight, d. aura, d. mutation, Mark of Nurgle, spiky bits, great weapon and frag grenades

Elites (830pts)
(210 pts)
Obliterators (3 models)

(310 pts)
Possessed Marines (7 models) w/ d. flight, Mark of Nurgle, Aspiring Champ w/ d.strength, frags, and p. weapon (since unit is favored of nurgle asp champ upgrade is free)

(310 pts)
Possessed Marines same as above

Troops (285 pts)
(95 pts)
CSM squad (5 models) w/ Lascannon, Plasmagun

(95 pts)
CSM squad same as above

(95 pts)
CSM squad same as above

Fast Attack (218 pts)
(218pts)
Raptors (5 models) w/ 3x meltaguns, infiltrate, Aspiring Champion w/ p. fist

Heavy Support (360 pts)
(180 pts)
Defiler w/ Mutated Hull

(180 pts)
Defiler w/ Mutated Hull

Total 1847 pts


So the CSM squads provide antitank support. The defilers provide anti personnel fire support. The Raptors raid armor and heavy infantry.  The possessed rip into infantry. The lord rips into heavy infantry and armor. The obiliterators take up the slack. Only the CSM squads have to remain static to be fully effective. The obiliterators and the defilers slowly advance. The Lord, possessed, and raptors charge forward.

Quick Post Script question. Would this list be more effective if I replaced the mark of nurgle with the mark of  khorne?

Hello!

There are some weaknesses that I see here- mainly your unit sizes. 218 pts for a unit of 5 raptors is not good for you. They're going to have a hard time making their points back and you're more than likely giving your opponent points has he kills off the small unit, or just kills 3 and makes the rest fall back off the table, unable to regroup.

33 models if I've counted correctly, + 2 vehicles. Again, over half your forces have 5 csm, making them vulerable. 3 kills in any one of them = vp for your enemy AND they can't take table quarters. This list does well for shooting, but has little staying power and will be hard pressed defending anything.

Something else to consider: your defliers do not have indirect fire. This means you must rely on direct shots and places them in harms way. The mutated hull is helpful, but will only go so far. Defilers hiding behind cover are a pain to deal with, so having one configured for this would be toward your advantage.

An idea would be to give the non nurgle troops MoU. You'll need that re-roll if you plan on keeping the unit size low.

Fairly sure that the free champion is only in actual nurgle specific armies.

'fraid so. You only get the free champ from a favoured squad in Death Guard, not in a general list.

And yes, I think MoKh would be better on the flying possessed and the Daemon Lord. But MoN isn't bad. Definitely drop the Great Weapon on the Lord - he needs a Manreaper if he's MoN, a Glaive for MoKh (or a DreadAxe for either).

Drop a Possessed from each squad to get the points, and you should be able to up the Raptor squad a bit too.

I disagree about the Defilers. In my experience, indirect Defilers don't work very well - they have that annoying min. range, they scatter badly with no LOS, they're hard to hide due to model size, and they tend to get popped quite quickly by enemy speeders / deepstrikers. For only 5 more points, I much prefer an AV13 Defiler that can wade out onto the battlefield, take a few low scatter battlecannon shots, and attract TONS of antitank fire away from everything else (ie possessed, Daemon Prince). Especially with two of them, they're very effective fire magnets. With the daemonic possession they can often keep shooting 'till they're dead. They *will* die, but often not until turn 4 - and destroyed or not, they make great LOS blockers to run your CC troops up behind.

Can a HQ take Glave and wings? Or was it you can't take inflitrate? I don't have my codex at work...

Unfortunately you can't use special movement modes with the Glaive. Manreaper should be fine though. Winged Possessed seem like way more points than they're worth, but if they work for you go for it.

@ Moopy good points. I didn't consider how small units would give up VPs so easily.

@ Longshot and Strangelooper. yeah I missed the part about being from the death guard/ world eaters list. That changes the points load out abit.

@ Crawling chaos Aha I see the loophole you've noted! While the glaive does not allow steeds, blood frenzy does not allow daemonic flight or bikes. Blood frenzy is essentially an erratic fleet of foot move. That does not however exclude daemonic speed since the standard movement phase move remains the same (only the assault phase move is different). But that may be just how I read it.

All these comments have helped me to get a better read on the list changes I need to make. I'll post a changed list shortly.

Demonic speed + infiltrate is nasty and can be done with Nurgle I believe. Get that 12" hide going and you can be quite happy.

New List is no longer Nurglesque

HQ
(151pts) CSM Lord w/ d. stature, d. strength, d. speed, MoKh, Berserker Glaive, Infiltrate, frags

Elite
(210 pts) 3 Obliterators

(375 pts) 8 Possessed w/ d. flight, MoKh, Chainaxes, Asp Champ w/ D. strength, P.weapon, and frags

Troops
(137 pts) 8 CSMarines w/ lascannon, plasmagun

(137 pts) 8 CSMarines w/ lascannon, plasmagun

(144 pts) 6 CSMarines w/ MoKh, Infiltrate, Chainaxes, frags

Fast Attack
(331 pts) 8 Raptors w/ Infiltrate, 3x meltas, Asp Champ w/ P. fist

Heavy Support
(180 pts) Defiler w/ mutated hull

(180 pts) Defiler w/ mutated hull


So its 1850 on the dot with no free champs and Marks of khorne instead of Nurgle. I dropped one unit of possessed and beefed up the remainder of my units' strength with marines. The Lord now has speed and infiltrate. One of my CSM squads are now Khorne berserkers with chainaxes that can infiltrate.

Model count: 41 infantry, one monstrous creature (lord), two walking tanks

Hate to be a kill joy but the MoKH does not work well with D. Flight. It negates that ability. It's on page 47 of the Codex(bottom left). Basically, this is wasted points. If you are bent on Khorne mark for your possessed use Talons instead. With the extra attack for the Mark, you get more chances to roll sixes and rend. Often people will take a champion with Talisman of Blood. Or you can put them in a rhino(not a first choice). Instead of Talons use Mutation. Five attacks on the charge with saves no better than 4+ will scare even the most hardened termies. Just something for you to consider.

@ spreshong  I wouldn't call the MoKh with D. flight wasted points. While the blood frenzy move is inapplicable MoKh still provides: Fearless,  one more attack, and access to chainaxes. They can routinely move faster than  blood frenzied infantry and still shoot. I did seriously consider d.mutation but I think I'd have to combine it with infiltration (combined they are the same cost as d. flight) to allow them to close quickly with the enemy and not suffer too long to shooting. A rhino is a deathtrap that would still cost 10 points more if I replaced flight with  mutation.  Chainaxes are more reliable than rending talons on heavy infantry and cheaper to boot.

While combining the Mark of Khorne with Infiltration is technically legal, be prepared for dirty looks and low comp scores.

I did not mean to say it was a total waste.... only a waste when it comes to flight. Also, on page 26 of the Codex it says they may not have any veteran skills. Kind of like Crawling Chaos says. In the context of how your army is set up talons make more sense because you are trying of close on someone while your other troops give supporting cover fire. The same with the raptors. I have seen talons work time and time again though I do like mutation. It is the same point cost as flight. Look at the Librarium Online website. It give much more in depth coverage than I could. It will give you several options.

Speed + glaive is not allowed. As Crawling Chaos pointed out, no special movement mode is allowed with the glaive. The rule that says this is in the description of the glaive in the third printing version of the chaos codex.

@ Flavius   What distinguishes a 3rd printing from a 1st? I've got a copy of the CSM and have read it several times. There is nothing in mine which indicates what edition it is. And the RAW for a berserker glaive specifies only characters on steeds cannot be chosen. While the rules for blood frenzy also clearly identify which movement modes will not benefit from the additional movement (dreadnoughts, bikes, d.flight, and vehicles). Unless someone can clarify the disconnect or point out where the edition number is labeled I don't see any real problem with the glaive as is.

@ spreshong I'll check it out.

@ crawling chaos Comp scores? I don't need no stinking comp scores!