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My nicest looking army is my DA/Fallen army. It’s painted as a variant DA color scheme, not the same as the stock codex scheme. The original fluff is that it’s a Fallen-hunting expeditionary force operating on the edge of the Eye of Terror, out of regular contact with the chapter. All the regular marines are provisional members of the Deathwing (models all having DW shoulder pads), with the concept that before the junior members get back to the main chapter they’ll either be dead or fully inducted.

Since they’re operating far from regular logistical support, they often have to scavenge chaos gear. You can play “spot the chaos bitz” with my army; lots of random pieces of armor, shoulder pads with the chaos symbols defaced and painted over, helmets with the horns cut off, chaos bolters, etc. These have of course been ritually cleansed by the chaplain, and most of them have purity seals added to denote this.

The “chaosy” look, however, also gives me the opportunity to occasionally play them AS chaos. A lot of this year I fielded them as Fallen, using the rules for an Undivided CSM army, usually Word Bearers because I could take my chaplain and play him as a Dark Apostle. This year for Adepticon I stepped it up a notch, converting some icon bearers, painting a sexy banner, painting an obliterator in Deathwing colors, etc.

One of the other advantages to playing as chaos was that I could use the more flexible squad sizes, as I originally built the army prior to the new DA codex, and I was still painting up additional guys to have ten man squads, etc.

Anyway, I signed up for Baltimore and am trying to decide what to field. I can basically play either as DA, as chaos, or even potentially as vanilla marines. Vanilla are probably the strongest option at this point. Flexible squad sizes and lots of firepower with minimal painting work. Chaos is the sexiest-looking option, with more recent painting, more conversions and cool stuff. But I don’t really know if the models I have will allow me to make a list which can realistically compete with the no-comp GT metagame.

Here’s the most recent list I was thinking about for Chaos:

Sorcerer w/Jump Pack, Wind of Chaos = 150
10 CSM, Las/Plas =185
10 CSM, Las/Plas =185
8 CSM, Melta, Icon of Chaos Glory, champ w/fist = 180
Rhino w/extra bolter= 40
10 CSM, Plas/Plas, Icon of Chaos Glory, champ w/fist = 220
Rhino w/combi-melta= 45
8 Lesser Daemons = 104
8 Raptors w/2xMelta, Icon of Chaos Glory, Champ, Fist = 230
8 Havocs w/4 ML, Icon of Chaos Glory = 210
Vindicator = 125
1 Oblit = 75

1749

Anyone have any thoughts about whether this might have a chance, or whether I should try a different build, or even go Vanilla or DA? I can also post a model list if people want to tear it down from scratch.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. Any thoughts appreciated.

I haven't been playing against Chaos at this points level but it seems okay. I would recommend finding those difficult opponents to find the holes. You potentially can cause enough glances on an Eldar list but what about Nidzilla?

Orion

With all of the anti-tank your likely to face your lone Vindicator looks vulnerable to me. I would add another AV13 tank or lose it. Or find the points to add an empty rhino or two to protect it from enemy LOS.

Ok, so here's the thing. With chaos these days, you need your elite choices... they're by far the best thing in the chaos list... and you don't have any elite choices filled. Instead of having 20 guys with two plasma guns, and two lascannons be your anti-tank, you can have 15 chosen with infiltrate with 15 melta guns, or 15 plasma guns, or you can take terminators with combi-weapons and reaper autocannons.... in my opinion, the lascannon isn't even a viable option anymore, seeing as how it takes atleast 9 guys to fire the damn thing at a tank.... apparantly it takes the 8 guys standing around with bolters to lift it up while the one guy presses the button. So my advise is to drop the two ten man squads, freeing up 370 points, and spend these points on terminators or chosen

You can't go wrong with 50 something marines, so I think it'd be fine.

I don't think it's ideal, but good play would make it do fine. Rejiggering it would probably require a lot of changes.

It's a good list, but you're going to go up against some very nasty Nidzilla and Mech Eldar lists for sure at Baltimore. I ended up deciding not to go as I'm kind of disenfranchised with 40k tournaments, but I regularly play some guys who've done well in the circuit this year and their lists are not pleasant.

Well, think about Chosen squads equipped with las/plas:

6 Chosen w/ lascannon, plasma gun

And this squad can infiltrate! If you take these squads instead of your large las/plas squads,  you have almost enough points for another Obliterator. The Rhinos will not last long enough in order to benefit from their additional weapon. I'd drop them.
-------------------------------
Frankly, this army will hardly do well. I'd try this:

2 lash DPs with flight
3 las/plas Chosen squads
2 Khorne Berzerker squads in Rhinos
2 Obilerators
1 Havoc squad with missile launchers
1 Havoc squad with auto cannons

Good luck!

Escallation will bone the list as far as the daemons are concerned. The only icon you have on in Escallation is the one on the havoks, which will start in the backfield. That means the daemons will have to walk a long ways if they come in turn 2-3.

• Drop one of those 10-man squads with las/plas, get either a second vindicator or 2 additional oblits. 
• I have not seen the new chaos book, did they get rid of the vehicle upgrades?  If not, you gotta put the possession on the vindys so they ignore shaken/stunned.  I am assuming they dropped those by your omision.
• Use points left over to make the first rhino squad match the second.  2x10 w/ plas/plas, champ w/ fist, icon, rhino w/ combi melta

The 10 man squad and havocs can anchor your line/deployment zone, the raptors and sorceror do their thing, the two rhino squads secure objectives, oblits tank hunt/deepstrike, demons do their thing.  Solid! 

Of course, I feel you should stick with DA theme, but I understand the pull of chaos.  Perhaps you should purge yourself of your corruption so you no longer have your priorities out of order.

Thanks for the feeback, guys.


Here's a new list concept, come up with by a friend of mine. What do you think of this?

150 -Lord w/ Daemon Weapon & JP
220 -8x Raptors, 2x Meltagun, AC w/PF
254 -8x Chosen, 2x Plasmagun, Lascannon, AC w/PF, Icon of Chaos Glory
239 -8x Chosen, 2x Plasmagun, Missile Launcher, AC w/PF, Icon of Chaos Glory
183 -6x Chosen, 2x Plasmagun, Lascannon, ICON:Glory
145 -5x CSM, AC /PW, Flamer, Rhino
120 -5x CSM, AC /PW, Plasmagun, Rhino
210 -8x Havocs, 4x Missle Launchers, Icon of Chaos Glory
125 - Vindicator
165 - Pred Ann Turret & Sponson Lascannons
---
1846

Looks much better. The Chosen are nasty, and congrats to the Lord (he's viable without lash).
The Vindi could benefit from PotMS (trading it for the Preds lascannon sponsons?).

Just played two 1750 test games for the Baltimore GT last night, against two different variations on shooty loyalist vanilla marines.

Both were on fairly open tables, though the second had a bit more cover.

For the first game I used that second list, though we realized it was accidentally an 1850 list, so I had to trim it down a bit as follows. This game was against the friend who designed the list.

Lord w/ Daemon Weapon, Meltabombs, Jump Pack - 155
6x Raptors, 2x Meltagun, AC w/PF - 180
8x Chosen, 2x Plasmagun, Lascannon, AC w/PF, ICON:Glory - 254
8x Chosen, 2x Plasmagun, Missile, AC w/PF, ICON:Glory - 239
6x Chosen, 2x Plasmagun, Lascannon, ICON:Glory - 183
5x CSM, AC /PW, Flamer, Rhino - 145
5x CSM, AC /PW, Plasmagun - 120
6x Havocs, 4x Missle, ICON:Glory - 180
Vindicator - 125
Pred Twin Las Turret & Sponson Lascannons- 165
--- 1746

My opponent had two preds (all-las annihilator and all-dakka destructor), a vindicator, two AC/HB tornados, a dread with las/ML, a dread in a pod with AC, a ten man Las/plas tactical w/fist and attached techmarine, an eight man las/plas tac w/fist, a ten man squad with flamer and thunder hammer in a pod, and an Epistolary w/Fury leading a five man command squad with two heavy bolters. I think that was all.

In this game we played Take & Hold at Gamma, and with a relatively open table he just took me apart. I was tabled in five turns. Even though my list has good amount of firepower, he simply had more, and more units/maneuver elements. In this long table edge DZ mission, I was unable to really flank him using Infiltrate to get side armor shots, and the only unit of mine that made it into HTH was the lord. I do like the lord with undivided daemon weapon though. He throws a lot of attacks at WS6, and with S5 can actually deal out the wounds. Rolling the 1 will suck when it eventually happens, but for now I like him.

--------------------------

For the second game I tried out my first list. If you count, I actually have 66 infantry models plus the four vehicles. It's a ton of guys, really.

We played Seek & Destroy, also at Gamma.

My opponent had an epistolary with termie honors and the basic power and a 2W chaplain, who both attached to a seven man assault squad with Fist. This was his counterassault element. He had two eight man tac squads with rhinos, fists, and missile launchers- one had a flamer, the other a meltagun. He had two six man las/plas tacticals, and a five man las/plas tactical. And a scout squad w/4 snipers and a HB. An annihilator w/las sponsons, annihilator w/HB sponsons, and whirlwind rounded out his heavies.

He deployed in a castle formation, with the eight man squads in front of their rhinos, and the assault marines hiding behind the two rhinos end-to-end as a wall. Two little tac squads were a few inches to the right of this formation (one in a wood with the all-las pred), and the other little las/plas squad was to the left of the formation, with the other pred anchoring that end of the line. We had a large L3 building not far from the front of his lines, kind of dividing his force's firepower into two main areas.

Most of my stuff went to the right, while my vindicator, lord, and Raptors feinted left (facing the Anni w/HB, snipers, and eight man ML squad, and small las/plas squad). I leapfrogged my Rhinos, and the Raptors went back right just behind, and my Lord was able to hop straight over the building and just make it into assault by himself against the left big tac squad. He arrived at the same time as the lesser daemons, and they engaged both the left big tac squad (including the fist) and the right one. My opponent's firepower didn't quite stop the Rhinos (smoke and some poor rolls), and his counter assault did kill my Lord and most of the daemons, but left him stuck there against one daemon while my ten man dual plasma CSM squad and Raptors counter-charged in return. My Oblit deep struck and twin-link melta'd the right predator. From there I was in assault, and my weight of models really told.

Overall I don't think this list is super-strong, but the high model count and better mobility really feels like a better fit for my play style so far.

I think I need to tweak this list a bit, especially to address the problem Skyth noted- I need an icon or two further forward on the table in case of escalation!

I'm thinking to maybe give one of the big walking tacticals an icon, and swap the other for a Chosen squad with icon. Next list incarnation upcoming...

Feedback?

Changing the list to look like this you get 2 Rhinos (more mobility and moble terrain)
a more flexible CSM unit.

Lord w/ Daemon, Meltabombs, Weapon, Jump Pack - 155
6x Raptors, 2x Meltagun, AC w/PF - 180
8x Chosen, 2x Plasmagun, Lascannon, AC w/PF, ICON:Glory - 254
8x Chosen, 2x Plasmagun, Missile, AC w/PF, ICON:Glory - 239
6x CSM, AC /PW, Flamer, Rhino - 195
10x CSM, AC /PF, Plasmagun, Lascannon, Rhino - 255
6x Havocs, 4x Missle, ICON:Glory - 180
Vindicator - 125
Pred Twin Las Turret & Sponson Lascannons- 165
1648

To get more guys, the next option would be to drop the Pred for the
oblit, freeing up 90 point for bodies.... However I think the 2 AV13's
are needed.

Thoughs?

Looks pretty solid. Still a little light on bodies, but it?s Chaos, so there?s not really a lot to be done about that. I should play a couple more test games with this, so I can get a better feel for it.

Yeah, I think it is. The things I don't like about it are the 6 Havoks. Would really like to see them at 8 as that squad has a lot of guns in it and maybe more Raptors. I think the 2nd Rhino will help give the Raports something to jump behind and live longer tho..

The only option to get these bodies that I see is to pull the Pred or modify to Chosen to 6 man w/o an AC, making them dedicated fire support, thus beefing up the 2nd CSM for a more active assault role as needed.

I should be free for atleast one game Tuesday 10/16 at 324. I'll bring the SM's again.

Hey, I went through and it appears we're over points for the little 6 man squad. So there are a few points there.

I ran through the numbers dropping the Pred, tweaking one Chosen squad to just shooty, and spending those extra points, and got my model count up to 63 and the daemons back. I'm bummed to lose the lascannons from the Pred, but realistically most armies should be able to suppress its fire pretty quickly anyway.

Lord w/ Daemon Weapon, Personal Icon, Jump Pack - 155
8x Raptors, 2x Meltagun, AC w/PF, Icon of Chaos Glory - 230
8x Chosen, 2x Plasmagun, Missile Launcher, AC w/PF, Icon of Chaos Glory - 239
8x Chosen, 2x Plasmagun, Lascannon, Icon of Chaos Glory - 215
8x CSM, Icon of Chaos Glory, AC /PW, Flamer, Rhino – 200
10x CSM, AC /PF, Plasmagun, Lascannon, Rhino – 260
9 x Lesser Daemons - 117
8x Havocs, 4x Missile, Icon of Chaos Glory - 210
Vindicator - 125
1750

How about that?

Really sold on those daemons ....?

Sorry about the points being off. It's what I get for trying to do it from memory while at work and doing other things.....

No worries.

I really like daemons. For me they're a significant part of what makes a chaos list chaos, instead of just marines. If I wasn't using them, I'd honestly be tempted to just go DA. I also feel like I'm not getting full value out of my Icons if I don't use them for summoning. The ability to get a relatively cheap but numerous assault unit to a variety of places on the table after the game is already underway can be a big deal.

BTW- Just noticed I can use icons as homers for the oblit if I deep strike it. That's cool too.

Redid the math. We were off on the Chosen, to the tune of 5pts and 4pts, respectively. Just dropped a daemon to fit them:

Lord w/ Daemon Weapon, Personal Icon, Jump Pack - 155
8x Raptors, 2x Meltagun, Icon of Chaos Glory, Champ w/Fist - 230
8x Chosen, 2x Plasmagun, Missile Launcher, Icon of Chaos Glory Champ w/Fist ? 244
8x Chosen, 2x Plasmagun, Lascannon, Icon of Chaos Glory - 219
8x CSM, Flamer, Icon of Chaos Glory, Champ w/Power Weapon, Rhino ? 165
in Rhino ? 35
10x CSM, Plasmagun, Lascannon, Champ w/Fist, Rhino ? 225
in Rhino ? 35
8 x Lesser Daemons - 104
8x Havocs, 4x Missile, Icon of Chaos Glory - 210
Vindicator - 125
1746


Slight variation:

Lord w/ Daemon Weapon, Personal Icon, Jump Pack - 155
8x Raptors, 2x Meltagun, Icon of Chaos Glory, Champ w/Fist, - 230
8x Chosen, 2x Plasmagun, Missile Launcher, Icon of Chaos Glory, Champ w/Fist ? 244
6x Chosen, 2x Plasmagun, Lascannon, Icon of Chaos Glory - 183
10x CSM, Melta, Flamer, Icon of Chaos Glory, Champ w/Power Weapon = 205
in Rhino ? 35
10x CSM, Plasmagun, Lascannon, Champ w/Fist, Rhino ? 225
in Rhino ? 35
8 x Lesser Daemons - 104
8x Havocs, 4x Missile, Icon of Chaos Glory - 210
Vindicator - 125
1750

So I played another test game last night against the mechanized vanilla marines. Got a win in Omega Take & Hold with a moderately-terrained table, using the latter list. My lord actually never made it into HTH, but the Raptors did really sterling work, accounting for the last two models from a tac squad, an annihilator, the gun off a vindicator, a dreadnought, and a techmarine. My daemon pack accounted for an eight man marine squad in a pod, and a landspeeder tornado, and were still just over half at the end. The vindicator died early.

Based on how that game went, I?m thinking of tweaking just a bit further, to the following.

Lord w/ Daemon Weapon, Personal Icon, Jump Pack - 155
8x Raptors, 2x Meltagun, Icon of Chaos Glory, Champ w/Fist - 230
6x Chosen, Lascannon, 2x Plasmagun, Icon of Chaos Glory - 183
6x Chosen, Lascannon, 2x Plasmagun, Icon of Chaos Glory - 183
10x CSM, Meltagun, Flamer, Icon of Chaos Glory, Champ w/Fist - 215
in Rhino ? 35
10x CSM, Lascannon, Plasmagun, Icon of Chaos Glory, Champ w/Fist ? 235
in Rhino ? 35
5 x Lesser Daemons ? 65
5 x Lesser Daemons ? 65
5 x Lesser Daemons ? 65
8x Havocs, 4x Missile, Icon of Chaos Glory - 210
Obliterator - 75
1750

Having the three cheap units of daemons gets me up to 10 scoring units, and gives me more reliable summoning. There?s only a 1/8 chance that I won?t get any daemons on turn 2, and a 50/50 shot of getting two packs.

The Chosen are now dedicated shooting units (and summoning points), without any points spent on extra HtH capacity.

and now the deathwing comes into play!

first, free some points:

-kill one chosen unit, vs some armys they are just wasted points or expensive lascannons (one is ok but 2 is not that good!)
-"10x CSM, Lascannon, Plasmagun, Icon of Chaos Glory, Champ w/Fist – 235" this is a jack of all trades unit and its not that brilliant (point-effective) i would drop it to 6 man wit plasma or melta without champ but with rhino or take 8 with pf-champ and one spezial weapon of your choice (even a flamer ^^ )
- 2 small units of "lurkers in the dark" (lesser deamons)! they have their uses but sometimes they just arent good... so i would take 2x6 maybe deamonettes if you dont want to make "lurker" modells

now we have around 270 pts to spend on:

2 units of 3 terminators with various weapons (i run mine with 2 combi plasma and a reaper for 125p without icon but its all about personal preferences)

or 1unit of 5 terminators with various weapons and maybe even an icon of your choice (belials battlestandard ^^)
+ 1 more obliterator (2 seperate units ofcourse)

you can just put those spezial weapons on the terminator bases to represent the combi weapons...

gl&hf with the army

(if you ever again want to field a chaos vindicator it should be possessed its much better that way trust me ^^)

greetings Badger