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FOR THIS POLL, PLEASE ANSWER HOW YOU CHOOSE TO PLAY THE GAME, NOT NECESSARILY WHAT THE RULES AS WRITTEN (RAW) SAY.

The Mystic rules on page 15 of the Daemonhunter codex say: "If a unit of Daemons, Greater Daemon or a Deep Striking unit enters play within 4D6 [inches] of an Inquisitor with a Mystic Henchman (roll when each unit enters play), both he and the rest of the retinue may immediately take a 'free' shot at them. These shots are taken before the enemy unit moves, as an exception to the normal turn sequence, and the unit counts as stationary. Aside from this, the normal shooting rules apply."

 

The Drop Pod Assualt rules on page 21 of the Space Marine codex say: "[Appropriate units in the army list] may be equipped with a drop pod. . .Such units remain in reserve and arrive by drop pod, even if the Mission being played does not normally allow Reserves or Deep Strike.

When units in drop pods arrive you may place the drop pod anywhere on the table. . .

Once the drop pod has landed the htaches are blown and all passengers must immediately disembark. The passengers may not move (other than to disembark) or assault in the turn they land. They may shoot but count as moving."

QUESTION: Do you play that an Inquisitorial retinue with Mystics can take a 'free shot' against a Space Marine unit (from the Space Marine codex) arriving via Drop Pod Assault?

OPTION A.  I play the rules as written: since the Drop Pod Assault rules are not technically the same thing as a "Deep Striking", Inquisitorial Mystics have no ability to target the Drop Pod or the unit arriving embarked upon it.

 

OPTION B.  I follow the unofficial GW ruling posted in the past on their forum: the Inquisitorial retinue with Mystics allow the 'free shot' to be taken after the unit arriving via Drop Pod disembarks. At that point, the 'free shot' may be taken at either the Drop Pod or the disembarking unit but not both.

OPTION C.  I play that the Drop Pod counts as arriving via Deep Strike but not the unit embarked upon it. That means the 'free shot' may be taken only upon the Drop Pod model and not until after the unit aboard has disembarked.

OPTION D.  I play that the Drop Pod counts as arriving via Deep Strike but not the unit embarked upon it. That means the 'free shot' may only be taken upon the Drop Pod model and is resolved after the Drop Pod arrives but before the passengers onboard disembark from it. Therefore, if the Drop Pod is destroyed by the 'free shot' the passengers onboard take damage and become entangled before disembarking.

OPTION E.  I play that the unit arriving aboard the Drop Pod counts as "Deep Striking" but not the Drop Pod model itself. That means the 'free shot' may only be taken upon the transported unit after it disembarks from the Drop Pod.

OPTION F. Something else entirely: reply exactly what it is below.

 

Could you please include the drop pod rules in the dark angels codex?

This will affect my decision.

And that is another problem in upon itsel: Drop Pods that seem to be identical for Marines, yet subtle word changes in newer codexes.

It rarely comes up where I play, but pretty accepted that DH Mystics will allow shooting at the Drop Pod as it comes into play.

Posted By onlainari on 09/13/2007 12:41 AM
Could you please include the drop pod rules in the dark angels codex?

This will affect my decision.

This poll is for Vanilla Space Marine Pods in particular. I decided to keep it seperate from a potential DA/BA pod question because I think there would just be too many poll choices (i.e. I play this way with BA/DA drop pods and that way with vanilla drop pods, etc).

But FYI the Dark Angel drop pods say that they "enter play using the Deep Strike rules", so the DA pod rules are clear that at least the pod itself arrives via Deep Strike. However the embarked unit inside is still rather unclear by the RAW.

 I may well do a separate DA drop pod poll at a later date.

 

 

And the short FAQ attached to the end of the BA online codex states that BA units using Drop Pods "enter the battle by Deep Strike"...............

I voted F, but realized that I would do D straight up afterall. Can't change my vote though

- Salvage

Everyone around here plays it as your choice to shoot the pod or squad, but i know people who try to say only the pod can be shot.

As they would never be MY Drop Pods (I don't play loyalists), and they *could* be my mystics, I choose A as the least advantageous option. (As a bonus, it conforms to RAW, and doesn't require my SM opponent to be aware that once upon a time, there was an unofficial FAQ, posted by a GW dev who no longer works there, and which I can't show him, as it's no longer there.)

Option A

Anything else is making stuff up.  The rules are concise.

Furthermoer, it is incredibly humorous to me, how this issue is treated by most people (ok to invent some rules) especially in the absence of a FAQ, when the opinion on Psicannons vs turbo boost (another well defined rule) was vehemently defended. Why isnt this one, they cant shoot them guys.

For the record I own both units (Mystics and a Pod Army) and this situation is a such a rare mix I have never seen it, not once.  Nearly academic.

Its not academic at all, i see this happen all the time.

Posted By Janthkin on 09/13/2007 3:19 PM
 posted by a GW dev who no longer works there

 

So any codex or rule set written by someone who has since left the company is no longer valid?? Just because someone no longer works there does NOT invalidate anything done while they did work there. And they are still available, all you gotta do is look for them.

http://www.ageofstrife.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=244

Posted By Augustus on 09/13/2007 3:22 PM

Option A

Anything else is making stuff up.  The rules are concise.

No, instead of "making stuff up", we're merely trying to play as the studio has said that the rule is supposed to be played. And to incorporate the additional information since provided by GW in BA/DA codexes, that both the Pods and the unit are considered to be deep striking. If the rules were that concise, there would be no debate.

Augustus-Fine, people are just making rules up. However, it is not the point of this poll.

Posted By Augustus on 09/13/2007 3:26 PM

Furthermoer, it is incredibly humorous to me, how this issue is treated by most people (ok to invent some rules) especially in the absence of a FAQ, when the opinion on Psicannons vs turbo boost (another well defined rule) was vehemently defended. Why isnt this one, they cant shoot them guys.

For the record I own both units (Mystics and a Pod Army) and this situation is a such a rare mix I have never seen it, not once.  Nearly academic.

I think we have a slightly different scenario here.

First of all, while the rules may be concise in this particular case (vanilla Drop Pods vs. Mystics) the overall issue is cloudy for many reasons. While DA/BA codices are clearly separate from the vanilla SM codex rules, the fact that their Drop Pod rules clearly utilize the Deep Strike rules is obviously going to leave a sour taste in many players who can easily recognize that a Space Marine drop pod from one chapter probably should function the same way as a drop pod from another chapter.

Furthermore, there is a pretty strong indication that when GW changes a rule for a particular unit from one codex to the next they are usually doing so to make some sort of intentional change in the game. . .so again, to many players it probably seems clear that GW originally intended for SM drop pods to count as deep striking but (as usual) they flubbed with the actual writing of the rules in the SM codex; an error they saw fit to correct in the subsequent DA/BA codices.

From the early indications of this very poll, most players allow Mystics retinues to fire at Drop Pods in some capacity so clearly the majority of players do not see the issue as black-and-white as you do.

I shall ask the forgiveness of the thread for potentially misdirecting, it did clearly say, not RAW.  So my stance is overbearing.  I apologize.

I am playing devil's advocate somewhat in the interests of a good debate and using the psicannon/TB strawman to illustrate a related ironic point.

I would love to see consistent rules.  I would like people to play by what is written.

Should drop pods all work the same? sure.

Should mistics fire at them? yes.

(But thats not what they wrote.)  Also remember rhinos aren't even the same accross codices either and we are not talking about standardizing them, even though they are obviously the same concept accross those codices, but with variant rules in each army, as just one example.

I agree pods ought to deepstrike, the current historical evidence makes a strong case.  I just want to close with a caution about being critical of players who play by raw, and the mildly hipocritical irony of playing strict raw, in some cases, and relaxed in others.

Drive on Gentlemen.

Posted By don_mondo on 09/14/2007 3:26 AM

Posted By Augustus on 09/13/2007 3:22 PM

Option A

Anything else is making stuff up.  The rules are concise.

No, instead of "making stuff up", we're merely trying to play as the studio has said that the rule is supposed to be played. And to incorporate the additional information since provided by GW in BA/DA codexes, that both the Pods and the unit are considered to be deep striking. If the rules were that concise, there would be no debate.

I don't think my opinion holds any weight or anything, I just wanted to add on that apart from the haines stickies GW further addressed this in the 40k GW UK GT FAQ (10/10/06). (it seems to have disappeared off the radar since (I'm looking forward to a chortle at this years hopefully)

Second question in.

Q./ Mystics: Do mystics allow free shots at the drop pod, the squad, both or not at all?
A./ The unit may fire at the drop pod before the models inside have disembarked.The drop pod counts as a vehicle that has travelled over 12".
Hope it helps.
KMB

That UKGT FAQ had some pretty questionable rulings and since it was created by the events department you certainly can't hold it up as anything official beyond the GT itself.

F: ... this not RAW in any way more what i think should happen ...
the drop pod deeps strikes ... mystics take a free shot at it ...if destroyed or explodes then treat it like any other vehical with troops in...
this is the only way this make sence

Mystics still get a free shot at it, it has just had the usual crap write-up by GW, i have had this before, and i have no problem losing a pod or 2.

now, how many people here saying this is crap and mystics cant give a free shot collect an army that contains 1+ pod?

and also, not on topic, but not to worry. (it isnt much an wont have an effect on posts)
the issue with the psycannon Vs eldar bikes, can someone pm me a link to it please.

Tri, what you describe is 'option D'.

And this has since been clarified by the DH FAQ.