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FOR THIS POLL, PLEASE ANSWER HOW YOU CHOOSE TO PLAY THE GAME, NOT NECESSARILY WHAT THE RULES AS WRITTEN (RAW) SAY.

 

 

The Vehicle Damage to Passengers rules on page 67 of the rulebook say: "Passengers carried aboard a vehicle that is destroyed. . .must make an immediate disembarkation move."

The Disembarking rules on page 62 of the rulebook say: "When the unit disembarks, each model must be deployed within 2 [inches] of one of the vehicle's access points, and within unit coherency."

Note: The disembarking diagram on page 62 shows the allowable area to disembark and onto the vehicle is not displayed as an acceptable area.

The Wrecks rules on page 68 says: "[A Wreck] continues to block line of sight as if it were intact but counts as difficult terrain for infantry movement. . .it provides a 4+ Cover save for models on top of it or looking around it."

 

 

QUESTION: If a (closed-topped) transport vehicle is destroyed with an embarked unit onboard, do you play that the passengers may disembark directly on top of (into) their now wrecked transport vehicle?

 

 

OPTION A. No, the transported models must be placed within 2" of one of the vehicles access points and outside of the vehicle.

 

OPTION B. Yes, the transported models may be placed directly onto (into) the wreck of the transport vehicle they were on (provided they are still placed within 2" of where an access point on the vehicle was).

 

OPTION C. Yes, the transported models may be placed directly onto (into) the wreck of the transport vehicle they were on. The models may be placed anywhere on top of the vehicle model regardless of whether it is within 2" of an access point or not.

 

OPTION D. Something else entirely: reply exactly what it is below.

 

 

We actually played A for a long time, but having reread the rules and looked at ye old diagram, I am no longer putting up with that crap. You can't disembark from a wreck. You can't stand on top of a vehicle. So either they all get out of the hatches or they all stay inside and die. Whichever is fine with me.

RAW seems to indicate B, but A makes far more sense.
I mean honestly, if your tank has just been destroyed, are you going to hang around in the wreck waiting for it to catch fire (if it isn't burning already) and for the ammo to explode ? Not really.

A: If you are placed on the wreck, you never disembarked you cheater. You can always move back on the following round.

Looks pretty clear...

A.

You cant deply on top of fiery wreckage. Its meant to disperse your models. Placing them on top is just dumb.

I know its not raw, but I really think that it is the intent to disperse them up to two inches away, and not within the wreckage.

Ugh. I hope I never play someone who does B or C. Thats just a little extreme on the RAW.

Its a big argument on 40konline (or at least was). I can see RAW being B, especially for people lacking in the logical analysis department. However, spirit says you go into A.

I actually think the raw supports A a lot more. You can't even disembark from a wreck, so if the vehicle turns into a wreck before you disembark you aren't allowed to disembark.

The game'd be exciting if any time a vehicle died everything inside it died too!

"The game'd be exciting if any time a vehicle died everything inside it died too!"

You'll see the END of the rhino, chimera, wave serpent (to some extent) and others if this were the case.

C'mon I know sarcasm is hard to get across on the internet but it can't be that hard.

Posted By Longshot on 10/02/2006 7:23 PM


The game'd be exciting if any time a vehicle died everything inside it died too!

Which is why no one used transports in 2nd ed........

 

As previopusly stated, show me where you can disembark from a wreck. Can't do it?... then use the Disembark from a Vehicle rules, Option A.

Option A.

I did! Ogryn in Chimera. Chimera drives 25", rams a target, explodes. Ogryn fall out, take a wound, and open up with 2 sustained fire dice ripper guns at < 6" (so they auto-hit). Good times....

Posted By Longshot on 10/02/2006 7:23 PM
The game'd be exciting if any time a vehicle died everything inside it died too!

Welcome back to 2nd edition where no one ever ever ever ever (did I mention ever) used transports because they were just rolling death traps for anyone inside.

Back to the subject, I support A.  You have to disembark from the vehical before it becomes a wreck (since there are no disembarkment rules for wrecks) and as such you can't pop out on top of it as detailed in the diagram.

Posted By Janthkin on 05/16/2007 10:39 AM
I did! Ogryn in Chimera. Chimera drives 25", rams a target, explodes. Ogryn fall out, take a wound, and open up with 2 sustained fire dice ripper guns at < 6" (so they auto-hit). Good times....

I stand corrected.

Posted By Janthkin on 05/16/2007 10:39 AM

Which is why no one used transports in 2nd ed........

I did! Ogryn in Chimera. Chimera drives 25", rams a target, explodes. Ogryn fall out, take a wound, and open up with 2 sustained fire dice ripper guns at < 6" (so they auto-hit). Good times....

Ummm, there were no results that allowed you to just take a wound, they either survived or died. And on Hull damage (most likely type with ramming), a 1 meant survives (except the vehicle driver), 2-3 killed individual crew members on a 4+, and 4-6 killed everyone on board, no wounding, no saves, just "They're dead, Jim". So there was a 50% chance of killing everyone in a trasnport if you could damage the hull.

I play it as A.

But then it gets even trickier. What if the vehicle is surrounded or in terrain that blocks the exits.

At a recent tournament the judge stated that if the the exits are blocked (on enclosed vehicle) you may do an emergency disembark and deploy anywhere within two inches of the vehicle. The rulebook supports this. But it then goes to say if they still can't disembark due to troops or terrain that they don't didembark. It doesn't say they die or are destroyed, it simply states they don't disembark. He ruled they just stayed in the wreck until the surrounding troops moved away (which would deny the kill points for the passengers) Page 67 of rulebook

I disagree with his ruling I believe if they can't get out they are destroyed no getting on top no hanging out in a dead vehicle.

Y'know, since I started playing again in 3rd ed., I never deployed troops on top of wrecked vehicles...never made any sense to me, so I just didn't do it.

Option A. The vehicle becomes difficult terrain specifically in the rules after the models are forced to disembark. As such the vehicle is still a model when the passengers have to disembark, making it impassible terrain. You are not allowed to disembark onto impassible terrain, thus you cannot disembark on top of your transport.

Voted A.

IIRC the vehicle doesn't actually become a wreck until the disembark step has occurred. With an Open Topped vehicle I'm not sure, but to play it safe I would probably disembark as normal, then most likely move into the wreck as cover as soon as I'm able to.

DoW

A: when the rules are clear it is best to play by the rules.

A: Wouldn't going on to the top of the vehicle require extra 'movement' which can only be done in said phase?

It seems like an attempt to get around being destroyed due to being unable to deploy (as is the case when the transport is surrounded by enemy units). I voted A. I just don't think it's feasible.

Lynch wrote:A: Wouldn't going on to the top of the vehicle require extra 'movement' which can only be done in said phase?

Yes...another point to support option A (which is what I have always played.), is that deploying a unit ON TOP of a wreck works well for many Imperial vehicles...but what about Tau and Eldar? Good luck trying to fit a squad of Fire Warriors on top of a Devilfish, or even better (for you Imperials out there!), imagine trying to fit a 40 models on top of a Stormlord...

I've never seen it played in any way except A.

Mephet'ran wrote:RAW seems to indicate B, but A makes far more sense.
I mean honestly, if your tank has just been destroyed, are you going to hang around in the wreck waiting for it to catch fire (if it isn't burning already) and for the ammo to explode ? Not really.

Hellfury wrote:A.

You cant deply on top of fiery wreckage. Its meant to disperse your models. Placing them on top is just dumb.

I know its not raw, but I really think that it is the intent to disperse them up to two inches away, and not within the wreckage.

Ugh. I hope I never play someone who does B or C. Thats just a little extreme on the RAW.

These made me laugh, you are saying that logically they wouldn't go on top of a burning wreck, even though the rules say you can go on top of a burning wreck in subsequent turns.

I think the RAW is A, I would be willing to play it as either A or B though.

I vote for A (I mean if my vehicle got wrecked I wouldn't want to be standing around on top of it, I would want OUT)

They can get back on top later if they want to. The rules seem pretty clear in this case, if the transport wrecks, pile out, check if your pinned, later on, the wreck (probably quit burning by now) can be used as cover.

Its B

Mephet'ran wrote:RAW seems to indicate B, but A makes far more sense.
I mean honestly, if your tank has just been destroyed, are you going to hang around in the wreck waiting for it to catch fire (if it isn't burning already) and for the ammo to explode ? Not really.

Hellfury wrote:A.

You cant deply on top of fiery wreckage. Its meant to disperse your models. Placing them on top is just dumb.

I know its not raw, but I really think that it is the intent to disperse them up to two inches away, and not within the wreckage.

Ugh. I hope I never play someone who does B or C. Thats just a little extreme on the RAW.

It doesnt matter if it makes sense or not. If you want to *house rule* it then go ahead, but RAW is you can get out on the wreck.

The vehicle becomes a wreck the second you go to get the minis out of your pack. The time while the vehicle is destroyed and the minis are in your hand ready to be placed. This isn't MTG where every action is defined and finite.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also what I dont get is this crowd screaming "OMG FLUFFERS SAYS YOU DONT STAND ON A WRECK IT MIGHT BLOW FORGET RAW!" but then next turn its ok to jump back on it???

RAW says that the unit disembarks first, then the vehicle turns into a wreck. It's really very clearly written.

What willydstyle says is correct, there is a specific order it happens in. Until the models are disembarked, the vehicle is impassible terrain and thus you can't disembark onto it.