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FOR THIS POLL, PLEASE ANSWER HOW YOU CHOOSE TO PLAY THE GAME, NOT NECESSARILY WHAT THE RULES AS WRITTEN (RAW) SAY.

 

 

The Instant Death! rules on page 27 of the rulebook say: "If a creature is wounded by soemthing which has a Strength value of double their Toughness value or greater and fail their save, they are killed outright and removed as a casualty."

The Creatures With More Than One Wound rules on page 27 of the rulebook say: "When a unit contains several multiple-Wound models, and those models take wounds, you must remove whole multiple-Wound models from the unit as casualties where possible -- wounds may not be 'spread around' to avoid removing models."

QUESTION: When a unit that contains several multiple Wound models suffers wounding hits (some of which cause Instant Death!), how do you play that those wounds have to be allocated?

SAMPLE SITUATION: A unit of 5 Ogryn (T4, 3W) has a single model with only 2 Wounds remaining from previous shooting.

Example #1:  The Ogryn unit suffers a single Brightlance (S8) wound. Which model may/must the owning player allocate the wound to?

Example #2:  The Ogryn unit takes a single Brightlance (S8) wound and three Starcannon (S6) wounds. Which models may/must the owning player allocate the wounds to?

OPTION A. The player follows the "building towards" principle (see the "Part 1" thread), except when dealing with potential Instant Death wounds. These wounds must  be allocated to cause the maximum amount of damage to the unit: Essentially, Instant Death wounds always go on unwounded models when possible.

Example #1: The S8 wound must be allocated to one of the unwounded Ogryn (causing Instant Death), leaving the already wounded Ogryn alive.

Example #2: The S8 wound must be allocated to one of the unwounded Ogryn (causing Instant Death). The owning player then removes the previously wounded Ogryn (with two S6 wounds) and puts the remaining wound on any other Ogryn.

 

OPTION B. Since Instant Death! isn't calculated until a wound is actually allocated to a model, Instant Death plays no part in the casualty removal restrictions. This player also doesn't follow the "building towards" principle (see the "Part 1" thread).

Example #1: The S8 wound may be allocated to the already wounded Ogryn (which then causes Instant Death), leaving the remaining 4 Ogryns un-wounded.

Example #2: The owning player may choose to allocate one S6 wound to the already wounded Ogryn and then the S8 wound to the same Ogryn (the wound would cause Instant Death, but it happens to be the model's third wound). Since the remaining two S6 wounds aren't sufficient to remove a casualty, the owning player is free to allocate the two wounds to seperate Ogryn models.

 

OPTION C. The player always follows the "building towards" principle (see the "Part 1" thread), including the allocation of potential Instant Death wounds. This player always allocates his potential Instant Death wounds first ( to be "fair" ), but since he follows the "building towards" principle, these wounds tend to go on already wounded models.

Example #1: Following the "building towards" principle, the S8 wound must be allocated to the previously wounded Ogryn (causing Instant Death), leaving the remaining 4 Ogryns un-wounded.

Example #2: The S8 wound must be allocated first onto the previously wounded Ogryn (causing Instant Death). The owning player then removes another Ogryn due to the remaining three S6 wounds. This leaves three unwounded Ogryns in the unit.

 

OPTION D. As long as the owning player removes the maximum amount of casualties from the current enemy unit's shooting, he is free to allocate the wounds how he sees fit.

Example #1: Since the maximum number of casualties that can be removed from a single wound that will cause Instant Death is 'one', the owning player is free to allocate the wound to either the previously wounded Ogryn or on an unwounded Ogryn (either way a single casualty is removed). 

Example #2: Since no matter how the wounds are allocated the maximum nubmer of casualties that can be inflicted is 'two', the owning player is free to allocate the S8 wound to the already wounded Ogryn (causing Instant Death) and then remove another Ogyrn for the remaining three S6 wounds.

This player could, if he wanted (say the previously wounded Ogryn was a "Bone 'ead" he wanted to keep alive), put the S8 wound on an unwounded Ogryn (killing him outright), and then remove another Ogryn with the three S6 wounds (leaving the "Bone 'ead" alive with two Wounds); as either way, two casualties are removed from play.

 

OPTION E. Something else entirely: reply exactly what it is below.

I'd say D, without this
clause.
Basically, imo, you have to place the wounds so, that there are maximum casualties.

Posted By Mephet'ran on 10/07/2006 1:00 AM
I'd say D, without this

This player could, if he wanted (say the previously wounded Ogryn was a "Bone 'ead" he wanted to keep alive), put the S8 wound on an unwounded Ogryn (killing him outright), and then remove another Ogryn with the three S6 wounds (leaving the "Bone 'ead" alive with two Wounds); as either way, two casualties are removed from play.

clause.
Basically, imo, you have to place the wounds so, that there are maximum casualties.

Then you're talking about option A then. Option A is the "maximum damage" choice.

I think A is how my group plays this situation.

We resolve potential Instant Death situations before the remainder of the wounds, on the condition that wounded models mat not have such a wound allocated to it.

CK

I honestly think it is C, and here is my reason.


I like to point you to my two pieces of evidence in the rulebook.





While one can say that it is for torrent of fire, one can reasonablly say that it can be applied to regular shooting as well. Therefore in the first example the wounded model can be removed, since you as the owning player is allowed to choose which model to accolate the wound to and meets the whole model requirement. (If they had diffrent toughness values then things would be diffrent.)

In the second example, you can opt to have the instant kill shot hit the wounded ogryn. and then remove another model since you must remove whole models where possible and still choose what models take what wounding hits.

Its simple to me, the entire point of the rule is in the justiifcation for application, YOU CAN"T AVOID REMOVING MODELS. If this is true, then maximal damage has to be applied when suffering wounds. That is why I chose A. The key isn't in the rules per se, but the justification for how multi wound targets suffer wounds in a unit.

Option A

OK, just what does "whole model" mean? Does it mean you can't use that one over there missing an arm or does it mean unwounded.....?? Option A.

Poor Ogryn. Their only use in the current edition is as exmaples in multiwound death scenarios.

I like C (as opposed to B). It seems to mesh best with the "no model takes a second hit until every model takes a first hit" rule and the "remove whole models" rule for multiwound units, coupled with the "player decides who gets hit" rule.

B seems to be a direct violation of the rules. Shooting rules state that no model can be assigned a second hit until ever model has been assigned on. So there is no way to assign a s6 hit and then a s8 to one model unles there are enough shots to hit all the models in the unit +1. But then again that whole building towards thing could screw it all up.

That aside, I think C is the closest answer.