One of my biggest pet-peeves is people that play with unpainted models, don't get me wrong some people take a while to paint, but if in a month you can't finish one squad then common. At are local gaming store we made a house rule that you need to have at least 3 colours and the base done if you want to play. Know one wants to see a army of primed models or the sea of grey.
How does everyone else feel about this, paint and play.?

I prefer to play with painted models myself. But as I'm an incredibly slow painter sometimes I'll play with unpainted stuff, but I make an effort to not play with something unless it is at least basecoated. If my opponent wants to play with unpainted minis that's their business, not mine. Would I prefer if everyone had painted stuff? Yes, definitely, but everyone hobby's in their own way.

Some people don't have time, some people just don't want to, and some people feel like they're too bad to paint.

I live in southern Ontario.

The warmest, balmiest part of Canada.

There are two three-month long windows in which the local weather might be friendly to spray-on primers. Which is further complicated if you don't plan on doing it piecemeal in the late hours after work or on the weekend.

No, I don't fault anyone for missing that window or not wanting to risk trying it during the humid, damp, or frosty months.

This topic comes up frequently. It almost always gets heated and eventually locked as it's hard to have the conversation without being insulting (either intentionally or not). Here is a thread that came up when I searched "unpainted".

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/650417.page

There have been many others.

 Matthew wrote:
Some people don't have time, some people just don't want to, and some people feel like they're too bad to paint.

everyone has time to paint, it's called being lazy and not wanting to that's the problem


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Captain Joystick wrote:
I live in southern Ontario.

The warmest, balmiest part of Canada.

There are two three-month long windows in which the local weather might be friendly to spray-on primers. Which is further complicated if you don't plan on doing it piecemeal in the late hours after work or on the weekend.

No, I don't fault anyone for missing that window or not wanting to risk trying it during the humid, damp, or frosty months.

go to the garage and prime there

 Captain Joystick wrote:
I live in southern Ontario.

The warmest, balmiest part of Canada.

There are two three-month long windows in which the local weather might be friendly to spray-on primers. Which is further complicated if you don't plan on doing it piecemeal in the late hours after work or on the weekend.

No, I don't fault anyone for missing that window or not wanting to risk trying it during the humid, damp, or frosty months.

Good primers are much less sensitive. I'll spray plastikote/valspar down to 3C (warming the can in water to waste less propellent).

Here's some more...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/651353.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/660110.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/618783.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/420990.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/611325.page

We can even go back a few years and find this thread...
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/400622.page

Funnily enough, year after year it's often the same people making the same arguments


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dman137 wrote:
everyone has time to paint, it's called being lazy and not wanting to that's the problem

And this is why these threads never end well...

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Here's some more...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/651353.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/660110.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/618783.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/420990.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/611325.page

We can even go back a few years and find this thread...
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/400622.page

Funnily enough, year after year it's often the same people making the same arguments


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dman137 wrote:
everyone has time to paint, it's called being lazy and not wanting to that's the problem

And this is why these threads never end well...

there's no excuse for not painting your models, everyone has time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dman137 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Here's some more...

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/651353.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/660110.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/618783.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/420990.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/611325.page

We can even go back a few years and find this thread...
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/400622.page

Funnily enough, year after year it's often the same people making the same arguments


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dman137 wrote:
everyone has time to paint, it's called being lazy and not wanting to that's the problem

And this is why these threads never end well...

there's no excuse for not painting your models, everyone has time.

but the point I'm trying to make is all stores should make the house rule that if you want to play it needs to be painted (at least 3 colours and based)

Last time someone told me they all need atleast two colors or I cant play. i simply informed them if I wanted a model painted as crappy as theirs maybe I would have more painted. But I like nice things.

When I was in a tornie and the said in the rules i out two nearly microscopic dots on the leg of all them they had two colours.

OgreChubbs wrote:
Last time someone told me they all need atleast two colors or I cant play. i simply informed them if I wanted a model painted as crappy as theirs maybe I would have more painted. But I like nice things.

When I was in a tornie and the said in the rules i out two nearly microscopic dots on the leg of all them they had two colours.

thats weak man common. And I'm surprised the event didn't just kick you out, I've been a T.O at events that people tried to bring unpainted stuff to and I just didn't let them play or if it was just one unit that essential painted then they didn't get to use that unit.

I enjoy games more if it has good terrain and if both armies are painted.
But painting is time consuming and most of us don't have that much free time to allocate at painting, so it is unreasonable to play only with 100% painted armies.

Here are some tough guidelines how I feel about it.

My own army
-> Regular models all painted
New models at least painted to the stage that they could pass off as low table top quality.
( everything has a color + some shading and minor highlight but no detail etc painted jet)
This is just so that I enjoy the game more. It is also a great way to avoid your own sculpts, scratch builds and casts to stand out. I don't like the view of them standing and painting them will avoid questions that I don't like to be asked while playing in a store. Having to tell players how to avoid buying the stuff the store sells in the store isn't fun at all.

Beginning players
-> Unpainted models are fine.

Veteran (tournament) players
-> Unpainted armies give me the idea that you don't care enough about me enjoying the game. I don't like these games.

it's not being lazy, once you buy miniatures they are yours its up to the owner if they ant to paint and if do awesome, if not awesome at least they aren't bringing an unopened box ad putting it on the table, ironically i dont play because more often thn not i paint on the sprue then make em, cept deadzone i build then paint diff story,its you to the owner to paint not their opponent

Dman137 wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
Last time someone told me they all need atleast two colors or I cant play. i simply informed them if I wanted a model painted as crappy as theirs maybe I would have more painted. But I like nice things.

When I was in a tornie and the said in the rules i out two nearly microscopic dots on the leg of all them they had two colours.

thats weak man common. And I'm surprised the event didn't just kick you out, I've been a T.O at events that people tried to bring unpainted stuff to and I just didn't let them play or if it was just one unit that essential painted then they didn't get to use that unit.

Three dots count as painted, so you have an imagined scale of how much must be painted in order to be considered painted? What about those who suck at painting. I find it nearly obscene to look at ugly things. Badly painted not properly highlighted and models not sharing a theme. Take alot a way from the experience and should be told they are imbarassing and told to leave the store.

OgreChubbs wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
Last time someone told me they all need atleast two colors or I cant play. i simply informed them if I wanted a model painted as crappy as theirs maybe I would have more painted. But I like nice things.

When I was in a tornie and the said in the rules i out two nearly microscopic dots on the leg of all them they had two colours.

thats weak man common. And I'm surprised the event didn't just kick you out, I've been a T.O at events that people tried to bring unpainted stuff to and I just didn't let them play or if it was just one unit that essential painted then they didn't get to use that unit.

Three dots count as painted, so you have an imagined scale of how much must be painted in order to be considered painted? What about those who suck at painting. I find it nearly obscene to look at ugly things. Badly painted not properly highlighted and models not sharing a theme. Take alot a way from the experience and should be told they are imbarassing and told to leave the store.

at least they tried to paint, and you can only get better with practice. Putting 3 dots on your army is being lazy and a weak excuse. If you have the time to put 3 dots on your guys and the time to bring it to a store or go to a event then you have time to fully paint a army, I work 50-60hour weeks and I still have time to paint.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 oldzoggy wrote:
I enjoy games more if it has good terrain and if both armies are painted.
But painting is time consuming and most of us don't have that much free time to allocate at painting, so it is unreasonable to play only with 100% painted armies.

Here are some tough guidelines how I feel about it.

My own army
-> Regular models all painted
New models at least painted to the stage that they could pass off as low table top quality.
( everything has a color + some shading and minor highlight but no detail etc painted jet)
This is just so that I enjoy the game more. It is also a great way to avoid your own sculpts, scratch builds and casts to stand out. I don't like the view of them standing and painting them will avoid questions that I don't like to be asked while playing in a store. Having to tell players how to avoid buying the stuff the store sells in the store isn't fun at all.

Beginning players
-> Unpainted models are fine.

Veteran (tournament) players
-> Unpainted armies give me the idea that you don't care enough about me enjoying the game. I don't like these games.

thats a good way to look at it. I feel like there should always be some progression, it shows that you care and are making a effort.

Dman137 wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:
I live in southern Ontario.

The warmest, balmiest part of Canada.

There are two three-month long windows in which the local weather might be friendly to spray-on primers. Which is further complicated if you don't plan on doing it piecemeal in the late hours after work or on the weekend.

No, I don't fault anyone for missing that window or not wanting to risk trying it during the humid, damp, or frosty months.

go to the garage and prime there

I live in an apartment in southern Ontario, and don't have a garage

Anyhow, What ends up happening (for me at any rate) is this just means I've got to time my building and painting around the summer.

Hunam0001 wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:
I live in southern Ontario.

The warmest, balmiest part of Canada.

There are two three-month long windows in which the local weather might be friendly to spray-on primers. Which is further complicated if you don't plan on doing it piecemeal in the late hours after work or on the weekend.

No, I don't fault anyone for missing that window or not wanting to risk trying it during the humid, damp, or frosty months.

go to the garage and prime there

I live in an apartment in southern Ontario, and don't have a garage

Anyhow, What ends up happening (for me at any rate) is this just means I've got to time my building and painting around the summer.

Painted models are obviously nicer, but I certainly wouldn't refuse to play against unpainted ones.

A lot of my models are unpainted, partially painted or painted in the wrong colours, mainly because I despise painting. I find it dull, tedious and repetitive.

 vipoid wrote:
Painted models are obviously nicer, but I certainly wouldn't refuse to play against unpainted ones.

A lot of my models are unpainted, partially painted or painted in the wrong colours, mainly because I despise painting. I find it dull, tedious and repetitive.

so your in this hobby because.??

Dman137 wrote:
so your in this hobby because.??

The game, strangely enough.

Dman, what if I don't want to paint? Also, your 'everyone has time' argument is really weird. Say I go to school, come home at 1700, eat dinner, do homework, do I have time? No.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why turn down a nice game because your opponent didn't paint?

 vipoid wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
so your in this hobby because.??

The game, strangely enough.

your better off then just buying painted models then

Dman137 wrote:
your better off then just buying painted models then

Thank you, Sherlock.

Dman137 wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
so your in this hobby because.??

The game, strangely enough.

your better off then just buying painted models then

That's pretty much what most of my friends do, they prefer to buy painted second-hand models rather than paint themselves. Kind of a shame really, but to each their own

 Matthew wrote:
Dman, what if I don't want to paint? Also, your 'everyone has time' argument is really weird. Say I go to school, come home at 1700, eat dinner, do homework, do I have time? No.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Why turn down a nice game because your opponent didn't paint?

you can set aside 20mins to paint, and if you have time to play then you have time to paint. If you want to play at home with your unpainted stuff then all the power to you. But if you want to play at a store then you should paint your models it looks better and it attracts more people, know one likes to look at a unpainted army it's just ugly and boring and shows no effort in the hobby.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 vipoid wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
your better off then just buying painted models then

Thank you, Sherlock.

then why don't you do that.? Instead of playing with unpainted stuff.?

 War Kitten wrote:
That's pretty much what most of my friends do, they prefer to buy painted second-hand models rather than paint themselves. Kind of a shame really, but to each their own

Do they manage to find consistent paint-schemes across the armies they buy, if you see what I mean?

I actually don't have time recently. I love painting, and paint very fast, I have over 6,000 points painted but if I want to add something to my army and it's unpainted primed or incomplete that's nobody's business but mine.

I think given that our club is generally made up of adults with jobs kids and lives than college kids who go to class 4 hours a day then have free time, a rule like that wouldn't really fly.

 War Kitten wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
so your in this hobby because.??

The game, strangely enough.

your better off then just buying painted models then

That's pretty much what most of my friends do, they prefer to buy painted second-hand models rather than paint themselves. Kind of a shame really, but to each their own

some people rather do that. I personally like to paint my own stuff, but if someone wants to just buy painted stuff then it's all good, that's better then playing with a primed army or all grey just built army

 vipoid wrote:

 War Kitten wrote:
That's pretty much what most of my friends do, they prefer to buy painted second-hand models rather than paint themselves. Kind of a shame really, but to each their own

Do they manage to find consistent paint-schemes across the armies they buy, if you see what I mean?

I understand what you mean perfectly, I'm just pointing out what my friends do. And no, not really. My friend who plays BA has an army that's a mix of yellow/black models, and white/black. Nearly all bought second hand. The rest of his army is still grey plastic

OP, I'm sure folks that don't have time to paint due to having lives are in absolute awe of you.

You should keep on being completely rational and winning people over with your stunning interpersonal skills.

"Play at the store" What store? Yours? GW's?

This isn't just a hobby, despite what GW (and many players) would have us believe; it's also a game. If I only have about 6 hours a month to dedicate to warhammer, as a gamer I'd rather spend those precious hours playing the game rather than painting.

Would I like to have fully painted models? Of course. But I'd rather buy new models than buy all the paint and accessories for painting, honestly.

Long story short, I have other interests. I, as well as others, have limited time and money to use on this interest and would rather spend that time playing than painting, and would rather see an addition to my army than a pile of paints I'll have to force myself to use.

the_scotsman wrote:
I actually don't have time recently. I love painting, and paint very fast, I have over 6,000 points painted but if I want to add something to my army and it's unpainted primed or incomplete that's nobody's business but mine.

I think given that our club is generally made up of adults with jobs kids and lives than college kids who go to class 4 hours a day then have free time, a rule like that wouldn't really fly.

all excuses, if you have time to play you have time to paint, I work 60 hours a week, have a kid and wife and I always find time to paint.

Oh my, I will discourage people from playing if I don't paint! You know what? No. I'd rather play than paint. I would never sacrifice play time for paint time. That's just weird.

Thorned_Lily wrote:
This isn't just a hobby, despite what GW (and many players) would have us believe; it's also a game. If I only have about 6 hours a month to dedicate to warhammer, as a gamer I'd rather spend those precious hours playing the game rather than painting.

Would I like to have fully painted models? Of course. But I'd rather buy new models than buy all the paint and accessories for painting, honestly.

Long story short, I have other interests. I, as well as others, have limited time and money to use on this interest and would rather spend that time playing than painting, and would rather see an addition to my army than a pile of paints I'll have to force myself to use.

no offence but that's a pretty lazy attitude. And you should try to put 100% effort into it. With how much GW stuff costs you want to make the best of it, know likes and primed army it's not fun to play against. If your local store allows it then that's there problem but it doesn't promote a positive hobby

Lol, nothing more than another troll thread by our favorite pal.

You're not gonna get any more discussion than his canned responses designed to provoke the most anger out of the least effort.

Just lock and move on. It amazes me how people like this and others don't get banned.

 Matthew wrote:
Oh my, I will discourage people from playing if I don't paint! You know what? No. I'd rather play than paint. I would never sacrifice play time for paint time. That's just weird.

then play at home, if more people refused to play against un painted army's then we would have a lot more pastured armies and it looks a lot better, not pairing your stuff is a pretty weak way to support the hobby, how will you ever play in events.?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
Lol, nothing more than another troll thread by our favorite pal.

You're not gonna get any more discussion than his canned responses designed to provoke the most anger out of the least effort.

Just lock and move on. It amazes me how people like this and others don't get banned.

it's amazing how you always comment but never actually contribute to a thread besides just being negative. If you don't like a thread then please don't comment

I'm unsure how I feel, in all honesty. Even some GW staff think ha-

Oh, it's you. Thank feth I checked the username.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
I'm unsure how I feel, in all honesty. Even some GW staff think ha-

Oh, it's you. Thank feth I checked the username.

takes to a GW employee not to long ago and they are seriously thinking now about bringing back the rule of only painted models at the store

Dman137 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
I actually don't have time recently. I love painting, and paint very fast, I have over 6,000 points painted but if I want to add something to my army and it's unpainted primed or incomplete that's nobody's business but mine.

I think given that our club is generally made up of adults with jobs kids and lives than college kids who go to class 4 hours a day then have free time, a rule like that wouldn't really fly.

all excuses, if you have time to play you have time to paint, I work 60 hours a week, have a kid and wife and I always find time to paint.

Sorry to say your home life is lacking then. i have two kids and a wife, time work is done and I bring the kids to the park or for a walk there is 10 hours of the day gone from work and kids then there is house cleaning which is atleast two or more hours a day. Then sleep is eight hours, then that leaves a hour or two for me and the wife lets not forget cooking.

The weekends are even worse with more time for the kids and wife finish the cleaning I missed and then try to get some relaxing in. If you have kids and spare time your not spending enough time with them

"You must have fun my way, or you are not allowed to have any fun at all!"

Or, to quote Sheldon Cooper,

"I had to leave, they were having fun wrong."

Dman137 wrote:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
I'm unsure how I feel, in all honesty. Even some GW staff think ha-

Oh, it's you. Thank feth I checked the username.

takes to a GW employee not to long ago and they are seriously thinking now about bringing back the rule of only painted models at the store

That is never ever going to happen.

I play and socialise at WHW HQ and they don't insist on it being painted there. Any obstacle that stops GW selling "you can't buy that here and use it unless it's painted" is not going to happen.

We can summarise this topic, and we can all move on.
Dman: I have an opinion.
Everyone else: Other opinions are also valid.
Dman: No they aren't.
Everyone else: [Briefly fooled into discussion] Oh, it's you.

OgreChubbs wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
I actually don't have time recently. I love painting, and paint very fast, I have over 6,000 points painted but if I want to add something to my army and it's unpainted primed or incomplete that's nobody's business but mine.

I think given that our club is generally made up of adults with jobs kids and lives than college kids who go to class 4 hours a day then have free time, a rule like that wouldn't really fly.

all excuses, if you have time to play you have time to paint, I work 60 hours a week, have a kid and wife and I always find time to paint.

Sorry to say your home life is lacking then. i have two kids and a wife, time work is done and I bring the kids to the park or for a walk there is 10 hours of the day gone from work and kids then there is house cleaning which is atleast two or more hours a day. Then sleep is eight hours, then that leaves a hour or two for me and the wife lets not forget cooking.

The weekends are even worse with more time for the kids and wife finish the cleaning I missed and then try to get some relaxing in. If you have kids and spare time your not spending enough time with them

if that's the case then you don't have time for the hobby at all let alone playing or painting.

Buying modles keeps store in buisness, bitchin about paint shuts up kids. Who wins keeping in buisness or. Kids? Cause I for one have more models then I can paint in a few hours a day lol. Hell even if I painted 2 a day every day it would take me three or more years to get them all painted. And that is counting titans as a single model, maybe the problem is more your to poor to have more models then time to paint?

I've been using brush on primer since the weather's been colder.

Works a charm.

Mate, just realise that everyne has an opinion, and that doesn't mean they're wrong. Some people don't like painting. Some don't have time. Some haven't found a colour scheme.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
I'm unsure how I feel, in all honesty. Even some GW staff think ha-

Oh, it's you. Thank feth I checked the username.

takes to a GW employee not to long ago and they are seriously thinking now about bringing back the rule of only painted models at the store

That is never ever going to happen.

I play and socialise at WHW HQ and they don't insist on it being painted there. Any obstacle that stops GW selling "you can't buy that here and use it unless it's painted" is not going to happen.

We can summarise this topic, and we can all move on.
Dman: I have an opinion.
Everyone else: Other opinions are also valid.
Dman: No they aren't.
Everyone else: [Briefly fooled into discussion] Oh, it's you.

not having painted armies makes the hobby look bad, and if you think GW is going to sit there and just let people play with unpainted stuff then your wrong

Dman137 wrote:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
I'm unsure how I feel, in all honesty. Even some GW staff think ha-

Oh, it's you. Thank feth I checked the username.

takes to a GW employee not to long ago and they are seriously thinking now about bringing back the rule of only painted models at the store

That is never ever going to happen.

I play and socialise at WHW HQ and they don't insist on it being painted there. Any obstacle that stops GW selling "you can't buy that here and use it unless it's painted" is not going to happen.

We can summarise this topic, and we can all move on.
Dman: I have an opinion.
Everyone else: Other opinions are also valid.
Dman: No they aren't.
Everyone else: [Briefly fooled into discussion] Oh, it's you.

not having painted armies makes the hobby look bad, and if you think GW is going to sit there and just let people play with unpainted stuff then your wrong

So you think they're going to say to their customers that you can't come to the store unless you've painted, and not expect to lose customers? And also, don't stores have tons of displays? That should be enough. Besides, wouldn't your Grav bikers discourage people more than unpainted armies?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, GW isn't a hobby store, it's a company.

Guys this is a troll topic he is just trying for somethingg he will never have. People care about him

"GW" does not give two gaks if your army is painted, because they have already sold it to you.

Painted, eaten by the dog, sitting in the attic, it doesn't matter. There's no more money to be had from that plastic once it's gone through the store. Even paint is only brief profit as one pot lasts years.

Individual staff may have opinions. They don't set company policy.

 Matthew wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
I'm unsure how I feel, in all honesty. Even some GW staff think ha-

Oh, it's you. Thank feth I checked the username.

takes to a GW employee not to long ago and they are seriously thinking now about bringing back the rule of only painted models at the store

That is never ever going to happen.

I play and socialise at WHW HQ and they don't insist on it being painted there. Any obstacle that stops GW selling "you can't buy that here and use it unless it's painted" is not going to happen.

We can summarise this topic, and we can all move on.
Dman: I have an opinion.
Everyone else: Other opinions are also valid.
Dman: No they aren't.
Everyone else: [Briefly fooled into discussion] Oh, it's you.

not having painted armies makes the hobby look bad, and if you think GW is going to sit there and just let people play with unpainted stuff then your wrong

So you think they're going to say to their customers that you can't come to the store unless you've painted, and not expect to lose customers? And also, don't stores have tons of displays? That should be enough. Besides, wouldn't your Grav bikers discourage people more than unpainted armies?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, GW isn't a hobby store, it's a company.

they are a model company, they don't care about the game or the rules, and it's very easy for GW to tell you to start painting your stuff to play, you think they care if they lose customers, if they did then AOS would have never happend

text

Haven't we established AoS was an attempt to save Fantasy?

But who would be discouraged to play if you saw an unpainted army? All I would feel would be encouragement, since, I'd want to paint my stuff.

These topics really need a flowchart diagram at this point.

"If you don't agree with the OP, why post in a thread"

I have a ton of painted models, and I love painting. The vast majority of the time I do play with painted armies. But I understand unlike some people that others may not be in the exact same situation as me and want to enjoy my hobby. So I'm generally gonna opt to go for the "don't be a jerk because I can" option.

Dman137 wrote:
takes to a GW employee not to long ago and they are seriously thinking now about bringing back the rule of only painted models at the store

Did they feel they had too many customers or something?

Although I disagree with OP, I do feel a bit of a twinge when I see a 2000+ army that is completely unpainted.

 vipoid wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
takes to a GW employee not to long ago and they are seriously thinking now about bringing back the rule of only painted models at the store

Did they feel they had too many customers or something?

GW makes a lot of does a lot of things that don't make sense and only piss off everyone else, huge price increase, AOS, "totally balanced codexs" and best of all today the Black Friday sale where you don't really save on anything because what you do save is just random units you would never buy lol

Dman137 wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
takes to a GW employee not to long ago and they are seriously thinking now about bringing back the rule of only painted models at the store

Did they feel they had too many customers or something?

GW makes a lot of does a lot of things that don't make sense and only piss off everyone else, huge price increase, AOS, "totally balanced codexs" and best of all today the Black Friday sale where you don't really save on anything because what you do save is just random units you would never buy lol

What does this have to do with painting?

 Matthew wrote:
Although I disagree with OP, I do feel a bit of a twinge when I see a 2000+ army that is completely unpainted.

My friend owns roughly 22K of Imperial forces.
He has no interest in painting or modelling, and just builds and plays.

His custom and money is no less valid to GW than mine, so I'm quite live and let live.

 Matthew wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
takes to a GW employee not to long ago and they are seriously thinking now about bringing back the rule of only painted models at the store

Did they feel they had too many customers or something?

GW makes a lot of does a lot of things that don't make sense and only piss off everyone else, huge price increase, AOS, "totally balanced codexs" and best of all today the Black Friday sale where you don't really save on anything because what you do save is just random units you would never buy lol

What does this have to do with painting?

it's has to do with the fact that GW will invoke a rule like you need painted stuff or you can't play on there tables. It's really not that hard to get your stuff painted, it's just like when you want to lose weight, take some time and work out and don't be lazy same applys for painting your stuff, you paid a lot of money for something that's just going to stay black.? Show some effort and paint your stuff

Dman137 wrote:

 Matthew wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
takes to a GW employee not to long ago and they are seriously thinking now about bringing back the rule of only painted models at the store

Did they feel they had too many customers or something?

GW makes a lot of does a lot of things that don't make sense and only piss off everyone else, huge price increase, AOS, "totally balanced codexs" and best of all today the Black Friday sale where you don't really save on anything because what you do save is just random units you would never buy lol

What does this have to do with painting?

it's has to do with the fact that GW will invoke a rule like you need painted stuff or you can't play on there tables. It's really not that hard to get your stuff painted, it's just like when you want to lose weight, take some time and work out and don't be lazy same applys for painting your stuff, you paid a lot of money for something that's just going to stay black.? Show some effort and paint your stuff

How will GW benefit from enforcing that rule?

Dman137 wrote:
One of my biggest pet-peeves is people that play with unpainted models, don't get me wrong some people take a while to paint, but if in a month you can't finish one squad then common. At are local gaming store we made a house rule that you need to have at least 3 colours and the base done if you want to play. Know one wants to see a army of primed models or the sea of grey.
How does everyone else feel about this, paint and play.?

I think you should let people play even if it is not painted... Common man, they are all the same even if they are grey... Just play lol

 Matthew wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 Matthew wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
takes to a GW employee not to long ago and they are seriously thinking now about bringing back the rule of only painted models at the store

Did they feel they had too many customers or something?

GW makes a lot of does a lot of things that don't make sense and only piss off everyone else, huge price increase, AOS, "totally balanced codexs" and best of all today the Black Friday sale where you don't really save on anything because what you do save is just random units you would never buy lol

What does this have to do with painting?

it's has to do with the fact that GW will invoke a rule like you need painted stuff or you can't play on there tables. It's really not that hard to get your stuff painted, it's just like when you want to lose weight, take some time and work out and don't be lazy same applys for painting your stuff, you paid a lot of money for something that's just going to stay black.? Show some effort and paint your stuff

How will GW benefit from enforcing that rule?

paint sales. How did GW profit from AOS lol

I'm the type of person who's a complete perfectionist, AND, really, really slow at painting. Also doesn't help that I can no longer stay at it and focus on tiny details for more than an hour or so without feeling like crap due to the large number of concussions I suffered over the years playing competitive hockey.

I try to get my stuff done, but it's never going to get done in an arbitrary 'timely manner'.

If some people want to just play with unpainted stuff for whatever reason, that's fine. It's their hobby and their time investment. Sure fully painted always looks amazing, but trying to exclude people just because they don't hobby the way you do is pure elitism at it's finest.
GW actually changed up their old "must have fully painted models to play" rules from years and years ago, simply because it was costing them business.

They, sold a succesful starter kit, they opened up a market for younger players. But so many more people would not want to go toa GW store if they couldn't play. Many have 30 minutes to an hours drive there, who would spend that time to just buy something?

Experiment 626 wrote:
I'm the type of person who's a complete perfectionist, AND, really, really slow at painting. Also doesn't help that I can no longer stay at it and focus on tiny details for more than an hour or so without feeling like crap due to the large number of concussions I suffered over the years playing competitive hockey.

I try to get my stuff done, but it's never going to get done in an arbitrary 'timely manner'.

If some people want to just play with unpainted stuff for whatever reason, that's fine. It's their hobby and their time investment. Sure fully painted always looks amazing, but trying to exclude people just because they don't hobby the way you do is pure elitism at it's finest.
GW actually changed up their old "must have fully painted models to play" rules from years and years ago, simply because it was costing them business.

its not elitism at all, paint your stuff it's not hard, also you were one of many people that said you wouldn't play against competive eldar because there OP, that's the same kind of exclusion and elititisum

I'm fine with unpainted or just primed. I play against a lot of armies that are just 3 colours with no shading/highlighting and to me there's basically no difference between this and grey plastic as far as aesthetic appeal.

Dman137 wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
I'm the type of person who's a complete perfectionist, AND, really, really slow at painting. Also doesn't help that I can no longer stay at it and focus on tiny details for more than an hour or so without feeling like crap due to the large number of concussions I suffered over the years playing competitive hockey.

I try to get my stuff done, but it's never going to get done in an arbitrary 'timely manner'.

If some people want to just play with unpainted stuff for whatever reason, that's fine. It's their hobby and their time investment. Sure fully painted always looks amazing, but trying to exclude people just because they don't hobby the way you do is pure elitism at it's finest.
GW actually changed up their old "must have fully painted models to play" rules from years and years ago, simply because it was costing them business.

its not elitism at all, paint your stuff it's not hard, also you were one of many people that said you wouldn't play against competive eldar because there OP, that's the same kind of exclusion and elititisum

There's a massive difference between telling someone to feth off simply because their models aren't painted to your own pretentious standards, than there is refusing to play against a highly obnoxious list that will effortlessly table your non-optimised Chaos list within 2 turns.

Large portions of my forces for the games I play are unpainted, largely as I have little time to actually do any painting, and what time I could use for it, gets used on gaming. Jervis once spoke of the 'hobby pie' in white dwarf, is the proportion of enjoyment you gain out of the different aspects of the hobby. Mine would be 49.5% gaming, 49.5% building models, and 1% painting. I almost actively dislike painting models. If people want to miss out on a fairly fun game because they don't want to go against unpainted models, then I hope they enjoy playing with themselves, and if it's a store trying to force it, I hope they didnt want any of my money in the first place

Experiment 626 wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
I'm the type of person who's a complete perfectionist, AND, really, really slow at painting. Also doesn't help that I can no longer stay at it and focus on tiny details for more than an hour or so without feeling like crap due to the large number of concussions I suffered over the years playing competitive hockey.

I try to get my stuff done, but it's never going to get done in an arbitrary 'timely manner'.

If some people want to just play with unpainted stuff for whatever reason, that's fine. It's their hobby and their time investment. Sure fully painted always looks amazing, but trying to exclude people just because they don't hobby the way you do is pure elitism at it's finest.
GW actually changed up their old "must have fully painted models to play" rules from years and years ago, simply because it was costing them business.

its not elitism at all, paint your stuff it's not hard, also you were one of many people that said you wouldn't play against competive eldar because there OP, that's the same kind of exclusion and elititisum

There's a massive difference between telling someone to feth off simply because their models aren't painted to your own pretentious standards, than there is refusing to play against a highly obnoxious list that will effortlessly table your non-optimised Chaos list within 2 turns.

I don't think he mentioned anything about needing them painted to his standards, just that they need to be painted. Prime it, basecoat it, wash it, boom.

So what's the difference exactly? Both situations are refusing to play a game you won't enjoy...

I remember when the Oakville battle bunker first opened, and the last manager they had before GW did away with the whole, "your models must be 100% painted to play", would refused entry to people because they hadn't painted the eyes of their models.

Rihgu wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
I'm the type of person who's a complete perfectionist, AND, really, really slow at painting. Also doesn't help that I can no longer stay at it and focus on tiny details for more than an hour or so without feeling like crap due to the large number of concussions I suffered over the years playing competitive hockey.

I try to get my stuff done, but it's never going to get done in an arbitrary 'timely manner'.

If some people want to just play with unpainted stuff for whatever reason, that's fine. It's their hobby and their time investment. Sure fully painted always looks amazing, but trying to exclude people just because they don't hobby the way you do is pure elitism at it's finest.
GW actually changed up their old "must have fully painted models to play" rules from years and years ago, simply because it was costing them business.

its not elitism at all, paint your stuff it's not hard, also you were one of many people that said you wouldn't play against competive eldar because there OP, that's the same kind of exclusion and elititisum

There's a massive difference between telling someone to feth off simply because their models aren't painted to your own pretentious standards, than there is refusing to play against a highly obnoxious list that will effortlessly table your non-optimised Chaos list within 2 turns.

I don't think he mentioned anything about needing them painted to his standards, just that they need to be painted. Prime it, basecoat it, wash it, boom.

So what's the difference exactly? Both situations are refusing to play a game you won't enjoy...

I've played with and against unpainted or just bare primed stuff plenty of times. It doesn't make the game any less fun, it just doesn't look as visually pleasing as fully painted would have.
On the other hand, when you end up facing off against someone who's brought their soul crushing tournament stomping list and all you've got is a purely 'for fun' list, only one person is going to have any kind of fun.

And I never said I'd refuse to play against Eldar in general Dman... Only that I wouldn't play against the kind of specific spam lists of Scatbikers/Wraithknight/D-spam that tends to cheddarise every single Kraftworld Tournament list.

Why? Because my armies aren't built in any way to compete against that. It wouldn't be fun for me, and outside of being TFG, it wouldn't be fun for my opponent to auto-win at the army list stage either.

Dman137 wrote:
everyone has time to paint, it's called being lazy and not wanting to that's the problem.... there's no excuse for not painting your models, everyone has time ... but the point I'm trying to make is all stores should make the house rule that if you want to play it needs to be painted (at least 3 colours and based)

As someone who has a sizable eldar collection and enjoys painting his own models, no, not everyone who wants to paint has time.

In the last year I've worked 750 to 800 hours of overtime, holiday time, double time, or some other combination thereof. For those of you not wanting to/not caring enough to do the math, that's between 18.75-20 weeks, or 4.5 to 5 months extra of work on a 40 hour work week.

To put that in perspective, that's 15.5 to 16 months of work in an 11 month period.

I also have a future wargammer on the way, due in Feb.

So no, Dman and anyone else who is of similar opinion, sometimes there isn't time. Granted, the argument could be made that maybe I shouldn't be involved in a hobby, and were I to pick up warhammer today I'd agree with you. But I've been playing for the last 3 or so years, and life has steadily marched on since then.

So unless you are willing to tell me, and all others who potentially fill my shoes, that I need to liquidate my entire collection and then enjoyment I derive from playing the occasional game when possible because the combination of my work and home lives offends your sense of aesthetics in a casual pick up game (not tournament or competition setting, that's separate), then I will kindly tell you to grow up.

deathmagiks wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
everyone has time to paint, it's called being lazy and not wanting to that's the problem.... there's no excuse for not painting your models, everyone has time ... but the point I'm trying to make is all stores should make the house rule that if you want to play it needs to be painted (at least 3 colours and based)

As someone who has a sizable eldar collection and enjoys painting his own models, no, not everyone who wants to paint has time.

In the last year I've worked 750 to 800 hours of overtime, holiday time, double time, or some other combination thereof. For those of you not wanting to/not caring enough to do the math, that's between 18.75-20 weeks, or 4.5 to 5 months extra of work on a 40 hour work week.

To put that in perspective, that's 15.5 to 16 months of work in an 11 month period.

I also have a future wargammer on the way, due in Feb.

So no, Dman and anyone else who is of similar opinion, sometimes there isn't time. Granted, the argument could be made that maybe I shouldn't be involved in a hobby, and were I to pick up warhammer today I'd agree with you. But I've been playing for the last 3 or so years, and life has steadily marched on since then.

So unless you are willing to tell me, and all others who potentially fill my shoes, that I need to liquidate my entire collection and then enjoyment I derive from playing the occasional game when possible because the combination of my work and home lives offends your sense of aesthetics in a casual pick up game (not tournament or competition setting, that's separate), then I will kindly tell you to grow up.

Exalted

 War Kitten wrote:


Exalted

Appreciated! Hope you had a great holiday!

Dman, comparing not painting to cheese Eldar is like comparing an AK 47 to a cheese grinder. They're both different things.

Although I only play with painted minis, and prefer only to play against painted minis I actually disagree with the OP.

He states it isn't hard to paint an army, and this is what I disagree with.

Despite the fact I won't use a miniature until it is painted, I actually think it is very hard to paint a model, even to a basic standard. It takes a lot of concentration to neatly block in the base coat, let alone adding shading and highlighting.

Doing this several dozen times is daunting, tiring and time consuming, especially if you need to unpack/pack your painting station each time.

Dman137 wrote:
I no people that have the same all primed or even just built army's and refuse to paint them because they don't have time, but they somehow have time to play games lol if you have time to play a 2 hour game take that time and paint instead

I play less than 10 hours of 40k a year. It's something I keep hoping to change, but work doesn't allow it.

10 hours a year isn't really a whole lot of time to get painting done. Especially when my army is Orks, who use a fethton of models to begin with.

Experiment 626 wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
I'm the type of person who's a complete perfectionist, AND, really, really slow at painting. Also doesn't help that I can no longer stay at it and focus on tiny details for more than an hour or so without feeling like crap due to the large number of concussions I suffered over the years playing competitive hockey.

I try to get my stuff done, but it's never going to get done in an arbitrary 'timely manner'.

If some people want to just play with unpainted stuff for whatever reason, that's fine. It's their hobby and their time investment. Sure fully painted always looks amazing, but trying to exclude people just because they don't hobby the way you do is pure elitism at it's finest.
GW actually changed up their old "must have fully painted models to play" rules from years and years ago, simply because it was costing them business.

its not elitism at all, paint your stuff it's not hard, also you were one of many people that said you wouldn't play against competive eldar because there OP, that's the same kind of exclusion and elititisum

There's a massive difference between telling someone to feth off simply because their models aren't painted to your own pretentious standards, than there is refusing to play against a highly obnoxious list that will effortlessly table your non-optimised Chaos list within 2 turns.

Dman's got a point here. You wouldn't play against a person that has very different views about how the game should be played. He's saying the same.

He has a point, and I've interpreted this point to be "You don't invest as much effort as I find acceptable into this hobby and your reasons, regardless of what they are, are wrong."

That's not an issue of a difference of opinion on how the hobby is played, like rules v fluff or hardcore v casual. That's just a sour position to take on *anything,* hobby or not.

I happen to really like painted models and think that a painted board (not a mat), painted terrain, and two painted armies makes the best game, casual or otherwise. But that's not what I'm reading him putting up here. I'm reading that he, and others like him, feel that you as a player are inherently enjoying things that you've purchased incorrectly because it's not living up to a painted standard.

This isn't about the awesomeness of painted miniatures, it's about the scrub-ness of those who don't have them. That's what I have a problem with.

Experiment 626 wrote:
Sure fully painted always looks amazing, but trying to exclude people just because they don't hobby the way you do is pure elitism at it's finest.

I see. So I'm obligated to accept a game that I'm probably not going to enjoy very much, and even refrain from criticizing my opponent, just to satisfy some arbitrary demand to not be elitist?

deathmagiks wrote:
He has a point, and I've interpreted this point to be "You don't invest as much effort as I find acceptable into this hobby and your reasons, regardless of what they are, are wrong."

That's not an issue of a difference of opinion on how the hobby is played, like rules v fluff or hardcore v casual. That's just a sour position to take on *anything,* hobby or not.

I happen to really like painted models and think that a painted board (not a mat), painted terrain, and two painted armies makes the best game, casual or otherwise. But that's not what I'm reading him putting up here. I'm reading that he, and others like him, feel that you as a player are inherently enjoying things that you've purchased incorrectly because it's not living up to a painted standard.

This isn't about the awesomeness of painted miniatures, it's about the scrub-ness of those who don't have them. That's what I have a problem with.

That actually sounds a lot like the hardcore vs. casual conversation...

 Peregrine wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
Sure fully painted always looks amazing, but trying to exclude people just because they don't hobby the way you do is pure elitism at it's finest.

I see. So I'm obligated to accept a game that I'm probably not going to enjoy very much, and even refrain from criticizing my opponent, just to satisfy some arbitrary demand to not be elitist?

You're not obligated to do anything. You can say whatever you like to that person, just like you're 100% welcome to tell someone they're wrong for driving or owning a car with a sub-par painting scheme because it's an insult to the industry. (Hell, that car might cost less than someone's army depending on the make, model and year...)

That is your right. My right is to point out how much of a you're acting like for doing so.

deathmagiks wrote:
My right is to point out how much of a you're acting like for doing so.

And, again, I'm a if I don't accept a game that I'm not going to enjoy very much? Why are we acting like everyone is entitled to play a game against any opponent they want, and calling people TFG for declining to play?

If i had a choice between a grey army or a half assed 3 color coated painted army that took like 3minutes i rather play with the grey army.

though obvious exceptions to be made.

I rather people take there time and do things the way they want to rather than what everyone else wants them to do.

I rate this thread a 5/10. You can do better, Dman137.

Personally, I don't care if you haven't gotten your army fully painted, or even partially painted. Sure, it's always nice to play a fully-painted army, and some tournaments require armies to be fully painted, but people have other things going on in their lives. I know I sure do, which is why my current Eldar army isn't fully painted.

This might have something to do with the fact that I can't paint beyond table-top standard. There's a reason you don't see my Eldar in the Gallery section...

 Peregrine wrote:

deathmagiks wrote:
My right is to point out how much of a you're acting like for doing so.

And, again, I'm a if I don't accept a game that I'm not going to enjoy very much? Why are we acting like everyone is entitled to play a game against any opponent they want, and calling people TFG for declining to play?

You are entirely within your reason to refuse a game for any reason. Anyone who begrudges you that to the point of direct challenge has their own issues. No one is entitled to anything at anyone else's expense.

Regardless of how true that is however, if your reasoning for not enjoying a game consists chiefly of your opponent being an unpainted-army-sporting pleb then... well I honestly cannot see how that's an acceptable social behavior. For anyone. In any situation. Hobby-related or not.

"You're beneath me" is not an inherently illegal or forbidden demeanor, but it is reprehensible.

Ultimately table top lives or dies on the community. Rolling dice by yourself is much less fun.

**Edit: Grammar and context**

deathmagiks wrote:
"You're beneath me" is not an inherently illegal or forbidden demeanor, but it is reprehensible.

That's not the reasoning at all. It's "I don't enjoy playing with or against unpainted armies".

It's not elitist to want to play with painted armies. It's the basic point of tabletop figure wargaming rather than some other form of games.

Boardgames, map games and video games all offer different advantages compared to toy soldier games, but only toy soldiers gives you that visual and tactile appeal.

People can do what they want with their models. For me, I have to paint my stuff before I feel okay about using it. As a kid though, I remember we hardly got 25% of our armies painted, if even completely finished assembling. I wouldn't turn down a game with someone if they hadn't painted. I might be unenthusiastic about a game with someone proxying a lot of models, however.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
It's not elitist to want to play with painted armies. It's the basic point of tabletop figure wargaming rather than some other form of games.

Boardgames, map games and video games all offer different advantages compared to toy soldier games, but only toy soldiers gives you that visual and tactile appeal.

Exactly. And this is especially important in a game like 40k, where the rules are an unbalanced mess and the game isn't worth playing at all if you replace the beautiful models with cardboard tokens.

 Peregrine wrote:

deathmagiks wrote:
"You're beneath me" is not an inherently illegal or forbidden demeanor, but it is reprehensible.

That's not the reasoning at all. It's "I don't enjoy playing with or against unpainted armies".

And that's perfectly ok! My concern is the judgement of the worth of the person in relation to the hobby. I don't judge you for wanted to play against painted armies. I understand that, and happen to agree with you (and hope you haven't taken anything I've said personally). I just find the position you've taken tends to lack in empathy to fellow players, something I feel like this community sorely needs sometimes.

Not wanting to play against unpainted armies is nothing to do with empathy. It's simply a preference.

A player's reasons for not having a painted army don't change that preference.

I agree with the first statement, but would argue against the second.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
I live in southern Ontario.

The warmest, balmiest part of Canada.

There are two three-month long windows in which the local weather might be friendly to spray-on primers. Which is further complicated if you don't plan on doing it piecemeal in the late hours after work or on the weekend.

No, I don't fault anyone for missing that window or not wanting to risk trying it during the humid, damp, or frosty months.

I feel you. It's cold up here. I like the cold, but it does make this hobby extra difficult.

Only playing with painted models is great if you have a painted army already, sucks if you don't. After a year of being back in the hobby I am only now able to field a fully painted army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have no problem playing against unpainted armies, because I can remember when I was building my army up and players with fully painted armies went up against mine without complaint.

 Gamgee wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:
I live in southern Ontario.

The warmest, balmiest part of Canada.

There are two three-month long windows in which the local weather might be friendly to spray-on primers. Which is further complicated if you don't plan on doing it piecemeal in the late hours after work or on the weekend.

No, I don't fault anyone for missing that window or not wanting to risk trying it during the humid, damp, or frosty months.

I feel you. It's cold up here. I like the cold, but it does make this hobby extra difficult.

I love winter as well. It just sucks when you're nothing but 100lbs of skin & bone and live barely a few km's from the lakeshore, meaning that even 6 freaking layers don't keep you warm... and that's in November! (-40 in January really blows)

Also sucks when you have a house with no garage, as it's damn near impossible to spray prime any models for nearly 8 months of the year.

Having a cat who's into playing with your models the second you turn your back also makes life entertaining. (my poor, poor Skaven army... )

Experiment 626 wrote:
Having a cat who's into playing with your models the second you turn your back also makes life entertaining. (my poor, poor Skaven army... )

I don't like to laugh at the misfortune of others, but there's something amusing about a cat playing with your skaven.

I don't particularly like playing myself with unpainted models. I love the spectacle of my men arrayed on the table. However, here's my problem.
I rarely get to game at all. Like, I'd say I could get about 4 games a year. I haven't found many FLGS in my area, and my younger brother has hit the stage where he prefers video games to a bit of dice rolling. Fair enough for him.
But am I still expected to roll up with a completely painted list, even though my hobby life is dying out? Is there even a point for me to be so obsessed with painting, even though I rarely do anything with the models in the first place?
In my state, I'd be happy to play against anyone, regardless of painting.
Dman, I'm really trying not to sound like a complete here, but with your attitude and the way it seems to be headed, I think you should be very glad you still get games. Just my thoughts.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:
I live in southern Ontario.

The warmest, balmiest part of Canada.

There are two three-month long windows in which the local weather might be friendly to spray-on primers. Which is further complicated if you don't plan on doing it piecemeal in the late hours after work or on the weekend.

No, I don't fault anyone for missing that window or not wanting to risk trying it during the humid, damp, or frosty months.

I feel you. It's cold up here. I like the cold, but it does make this hobby extra difficult.

I love winter as well. It just sucks when you're nothing but 100lbs of skin & bone and live barely a few km's from the lakeshore, meaning that even 6 freaking layers don't keep you warm... and that's in November! (-40 in January really blows)

Also sucks when you have a house with no garage, as it's damn near impossible to spray prime any models for nearly 8 months of the year.

Having a cat who's into playing with your models the second you turn your back also makes life entertaining. (my poor, poor Skaven army... )

The cold's never really bothered me too much lol. Granted I'm definitely not skin and bone. I don't have a garage but I do have a wood stove in a shack away from the house, but spray paint and stoves don't mix well. So I'm out of luck as well. I could try do it in the basement with all the windows open or something but I would need to spray pain asap and there's always the chance the fumes linger in the house which I wouldn't want. The problem with that though is a bunch of folks in the house have asthma including myself and I'm worried it would bother us ect.

I certainly prefer playing against painted armies, and I myself never field units until they're fully painted, but I won't stop anyone from playing unpainted. Painting is a large time investment, and maybe they want to play a game before they have the time to get their models painted. Heck, I've even played against people who didn't have all the limbs on their models yet. (Though, to be fair, this is because they painted their models piecemeal, and they were doing a damn good job of it, too. Like the kind that would take hours just to finish an arm.)

 Gamgee wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:

 Captain Joystick wrote:
I live in southern Ontario.

The warmest, balmiest part of Canada.

There are two three-month long windows in which the local weather might be friendly to spray-on primers. Which is further complicated if you don't plan on doing it piecemeal in the late hours after work or on the weekend.

No, I don't fault anyone for missing that window or not wanting to risk trying it during the humid, damp, or frosty months.

I feel you. It's cold up here. I like the cold, but it does make this hobby extra difficult.

I love winter as well. It just sucks when you're nothing but 100lbs of skin & bone and live barely a few km's from the lakeshore, meaning that even 6 freaking layers don't keep you warm... and that's in November! (-40 in January really blows)

Also sucks when you have a house with no garage, as it's damn near impossible to spray prime any models for nearly 8 months of the year.

Having a cat who's into playing with your models the second you turn your back also makes life entertaining. (my poor, poor Skaven army... )

The cold's never really bothered me too much lol. Granted I'm definitely not skin and bone. I don't have a garage but I do have a wood stove in a shack away from the house, but spray paint and stoves don't mix well. So I'm out of luck as well. I could try do it in the basement with all the windows open or something but I would need to spray pain asap and there's always the chance the fumes linger in the house which I wouldn't want. The problem with that though is a bunch of folks in the house have asthma including myself and I'm worried it would bother us ect.

This is what you guys want. Spray painting indoors is now not a problem. You can find them as cheap as $50 if you hunt about.

Somebody answer me this.

Why do players play 40k if they don't like painting?
We all bitch and moan about the lack of balance and terrible rules, so why 40k? There are better games out there, but i thought it was the cool models that drew people in?

Imo unpainted is fine IF the opponent is making progress on them. Otherwise unpainted i find just takes away from the experience. So in essence, yes i'd rather not play, and go do something else.

ITT: predictable rage and calls of "paint snob" from people who don't paint and feigned disgust and calls of "lazy kids" from people who do paint.

Seriously, if playing someone who doesn't paint their stuff offends you, don't play them. If you never bother to paint your stuff, don't act like anyone is obligated to give you their time for a game they may not enjoy.

Any game I've played with unpainted models are always the case where they're making progress. It does seem a bit strange to buy models without the intention of painting them ever. I never actually thought that was something someone would do.

I can understand someone wanting to play a mini wargame but not being into painting. Yes, I also know GW is bad at making a good game, but the ITC exists and really 40k is the only mini wargaming that's big enough to encounter somewhat easily if you don't have a gaming group. It's the same with a lot of video games, the better games don't always take off because there are mediocre ones that are ok enough and have enough recognition to keep drawing people in.

That being said, I'm surprised people don't proxy more often in testing games.

 eskimo wrote:
Somebody answer me this.

Why do players play 40k if they don't like painting?

Because they like playing 40k?

 vipoid wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
Having a cat who's into playing with your models the second you turn your back also makes life entertaining. (my poor, poor Skaven army... )

I don't like to laugh at the misfortune of others, but there's something amusing about a cat playing with your skaven.

In this case, the standard tactic of 'send more slaves' availed me not.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
Having a cat who's into playing with your models the second you turn your back also makes life entertaining. (my poor, poor Skaven army... )

I don't like to laugh at the misfortune of others, but there's something amusing about a cat playing with your skaven.

In this case, the standard tactic of 'send more slaves' availed me not.

Protip: buy a dog. Cats are a-holes

Dogs are more chew-y though. I'd be much more nervous having a dog around my minis than a cat. Sure, a cat might bat around my models, but any dog I'd want might swallow them, and I wouldn't want my dog to choke.

 Peregrine wrote:
I see. So I'm obligated to accept a game that I'm probably not going to enjoy very much

No, you aren't.

and even refrain from criticizing my opponent

Yes, you should.

just to satisfy some arbitrary demand to not be elitist?

No, because criticizing people in the context of the hobby you're both doing for leisure is being a dick and you shouldn't be a dick.

If the argument stopped at "I don't want to play against unpainted models because playing against painted models is more fun" then I don't really think there's a problem. Where it turns in to a vitriolic exchange is when people start criticizing other people by calling them lazy and telling them they shouldn't be in to wargaming at all if they don't embrace painting and whatnot.

It's enough of a put down to just be turned down for a game, so leave it there, no reason to be a judgemental douche about it too.

 Matthew wrote:
Some people don't have time, some people just don't want to, and some people feel like they're too bad to paint.

I can see what you mean, I'm by no means a painter. My models make mediocre painters cringe. I still paint em anyways

Thing is, painting models is the only way to get better at painting models. I get that people might be embarrassed, but they could just set aside a couple models to practice on and just base the others.

 Vitali Advenil wrote:
Thing is, painting models is the only way to get better at painting models. I get that people might be embarrassed, but they could just set aside a couple models to practice on and just base the others.

I play Grey Knights, Harlequins, Sisters of Battle, and Dwarfs. Being useless for anything else I do, my Assault on Black Reach Models have gone through a ton of paint schemes

You could always start up a small SM allied detachment. That's what I'm doing with my DE, allied to my Eldar

Dman137 wrote:
At are local gaming store we made a house rule that you need to have at least 3 colours and the base done if you want to play.

Colour minimum is such a stupid house rule, my nids are bone purple and then nuln oil'ed since its a swarm army. Isn't the best looking but it looks a lot better than grey. Shouldn't mean I don't get to play with them.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Colour minimum is such a stupid house rule, my nids are bone purple and then nuln oil'ed since its a swarm army. Isn't the best looking but it looks a lot better than grey. Shouldn't mean I don't get to play with them.

That would be three colors. Or you could highlight the edges a lighter shade of purple. Or paint the eyes. Etc. I don't think there's a single model in 40k that can be painted adequately without using at least three colors.

 eskimo wrote:
Somebody answer me this.

Why do players play 40k if they don't like painting?
We all bitch and moan about the lack of balance and terrible rules, so why 40k? There are better games out there, but i thought it was the cool models that drew people in?

Imo unpainted is fine IF the opponent is making progress on them. Otherwise unpainted i find just takes away from the experience. So in essence, yes i'd rather not play, and go do something else.

Because I like other parts of the hobby (modelling and conversions). Also I still have fun playing 40k even if the rules are unbalanced and terrible.

Just because my army is in progress doesn't mean I won't play. I try to basecoat most of my stuff before it hits the table though. Then I go and do something crazy like deciding to field an army composed of nearly 95% different miniatures than what I have completed currently(only Pedro Kantor, a Scout Squad, a Land Speeder Storm, and a Stormtalon were done). I have a long ways to go before the army will be fielded at 100% completion.

 CrownAxe wrote:
Because I like other parts of the hobby (modelling and conversions).

I just don't get this, at all. What's the point of putting all the work into converting a model and then leaving it bare plastic? If you love the model and aren't just assembling it as quickly as possible to get a game piece then why not finish it?

 Peregrine wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
Because I like other parts of the hobby (modelling and conversions).

I just don't get this, at all. What's the point of putting all the work into converting a model and then leaving it bare plastic? If you love the model and aren't just assembling it as quickly as possible to get a game piece then why not finish it?

Because i don't care about pretending that my models are actually have a little tiny battle. when they are unpainted it feels like its my models and that im doing something.

As far as im concerned it is finished

 CrownAxe wrote:
As far as im concerned it is finished

So you paint all of your models then?

I don't paint my models because I don't enjoy painting. I find it boring, slow, and it hurts my neck and upper back. I even got a bar table and a drafting chair with an adjustable height to try to fix that last part, and it helped a bit with the neck and upper back pain, but not much. I've tried putting on music, and putting on TV shows to listen to, and it helped for a few sessions but eventually that wore off. I've tried painting for 45 minutes a day, but eventually I stopped because I'd rather be doing things other than painting.

I will not even try to use lack of time as an excuse for myself, because I don't work and I don't go to school as a result of a medical disability, which gives me pretty much all day to myself.

As for how I got into a tabletop wargame where the models don't come pre-painted, I had previously been playing MageKnight when I stumbled across one of my friends playing 40k with his friends. It looked like fun, so I bought a box of Dire Avengers a few months later with my saved allowance money. When I got the box home and opened it was when I found out that the models didn't come pre-built or pre-painted. And then for the first couple of years, I actually did enjoy painting the models. But that changed at some point.

 Peregrine wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
As far as im concerned it is finished

So you paint all of your models then?

Nope. I edited my post please read it again

 CrownAxe wrote:
Because i don't care about pretending that my models are actually have a little tiny battle. when they are unpainted it feels like its my models and that im doing something.

And now I'm completely confused here. Painting your models keeps you from thinking that you're doing something and they're your models?

Also, if you don't want to pretend that your models are having a tiny battle then why put so much work into converting them? I can understand how people who just want to play a game would assemble their game pieces as quickly as possible and never bother to paint them, just like they'd punch the cardboard tokens out of their sheet to play a board game. I can't understand how they could be masochistic enough to pick 40k as their game, but I can understand the lack of interest in treating the models as anything other than really expensive game tokens. But I can't understand at all how someone could care enough about their models to invest time and effort into converting them and treating them like works of art, but not care enough to actually finish their models.

 Pouncey wrote:
I don't paint my models because I don't enjoy painting. I find it boring, slow, and it hurts my neck and upper back. I even got a bar table and a drafting chair with an adjustable height to try to fix that last part, and it helped a bit with the neck and upper back pain, but not much. I've tried putting on music, and putting on TV shows to listen to, and it helped for a few sessions but eventually that wore off. I've tried painting for 45 minutes a day, but eventually I stopped because I'd rather be doing things other than painting.

I will not even try to use lack of time as an excuse for myself, because I don't work and I don't go to school as a result of a medical disability, which gives me pretty much all day to myself.

As for how I got into a tabletop wargame where the models don't come pre-painted, I had previously been playing MageKnight when I stumbled across one of my friends playing 40k with his friends. It looked like fun, so I bought a box of Dire Avengers a few months later with my saved allowance money. When I got the box home and opened it was when I found out that the models didn't come pre-built or pre-painted. And then for the first couple of years, I actually did enjoy painting the models. But that changed at some point.

It sounds like you're leaning forwards to bring your eyes closer to the model. You need to get closer by lowering your chair instead.

Many people sit too high, you have to go quite low even with good eye sight. A draftsmans chair is generally not ideal because they're quite tall.

 Peregrine wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
Because i don't care about pretending that my models are actually have a little tiny battle. when they are unpainted it feels like its my models and that im doing something.

And now I'm completely confused here. Painting your models keeps you from thinking that you're doing something and they're your models?

Also, if you don't want to pretend that your models are having a tiny battle then why put so much work into converting them? I can understand how people who just want to play a game would assemble their game pieces as quickly as possible and never bother to paint them, just like they'd punch the cardboard tokens out of their sheet to play a board game. I can't understand how they could be masochistic enough to pick 40k as their game, but I can understand the lack of interest in treating the models as anything other than really expensive game tokens. But I can't understand at all how someone could care enough about their models to invest time and effort into converting them and treating them like works of art, but not care enough to actually finish their models.

Do you paint chess pieces? I like the ascetic that using chess pieces feels like which is an abstract form for which I am playing a game. Painting my models just adds more degrees of separation from that.

Also do you paint LEGOs? I like modelling because its fun to do and play with exactly like LEGOs. I'm just putting cool stuff together I'm not looking at making a grand masterpiece.

 CrownAxe wrote:
Do you paint chess pieces? I like the ascetic that using chess pieces feels like which is an abstract form for which I am playing a game. Painting my models just adds more degrees of separation from that

Of course I don't paint chess pieces, but I also don't convert my own custom chess pieces to match the story I've invented about how awesome they are. Nor do I use chess pieces that are intended to be literal representations of "real" soldiers instead of abstract shapes. If I had a chess set made out of 40k characters I'd paint the pieces (even if it's just in a monochrome black and white like they're meant to be sculptures instead of "real" soldiers) because they're no longer just abstract tokens.

Also do you paint LEGOs? I like modelling because its fun to do and play with exactly like LEGOs. I'm just putting cool stuff together I'm not looking at making a grand masterpiece.

No, because LEGOs are temporary things that will probably be torn apart and turned into something else soon. Painting them and treating them as one-time projects to build defeats the whole purpose of buying LEGOs in the first place. If I want to build something I'll get a model kit and then finish it by painting it.

Lol, so you're telling me dboy that if I was playing with your group *shudders* that even if every week I came in with 5-7 newly painted models, showing progression constantly towards getting an army done, you.. players wouldn't allow me to play? Thank goodness. I'm sure many a 40k players get saved by such a grace.

I personally will only field painted models, but I have a very relaxed attitude towards the game. I am ok with pretty much every proxy there is and will often proxy in my own things as well. Thankfuly my gamer group shares this attitude.

I would never field an army of unpainted guys, but I would happily play someone who didnt paint his at all. I am just happy to play the game with people. Only thing I really care about is the person I am playing with. If you are a nice guy I am perfectly fine with you proxying in your Ork Trukk as a landraider.

Now if you only bring top tier play to win lists then thats another story...

I try to get my stuff painted, but I am glacially slow about it. I would probably never get a game if I had to have everything painted. I just get distracted way too easily by other things. I feel less bad about this condition because at my FLGS most players have some (or all) of their armies unpainted. Usually at tournaments I see about 25% of the armies fully painted, but there's usually one or two that have very few, if any, painted miniatures. I don't think this is a good thing by any stretch of the imagination, but even if my stuff was fully painted I would still play with those guys, as most of them are nice people and fun to play with.

On a side note, I usually like to pick up painting tips from the people with fully painted armies. Any bit helps!

Experiment 626 wrote:
In this case, the standard tactic of 'send more slaves' availed me not.

 eskimo wrote:

Why do players play 40k if they don't like painting?
We all bitch and moan about the lack of balance and terrible rules, so why 40k? There are better games out there, but i thought it was the cool models that drew people in?

Because 40k is the game my friends play, and so far they've been disinclined to try anything else.


Also, just going to throw in my hat as someone else who hates painting but likes converting. Go figure.

It's the moment after building/ converting a model where I go "this looks nice, time ruin my vision for it by applying paint"' where I always end up dissatisfied with the outcome. If I pay to get them painted, I'm dissatisfied I didn't do it. I am become barrel of hipocrasy. Also I don't enjoy painting on the whole.

A guy local to me raised what I consider a very valid point recently.
What about players with disabilities, minor or severe?

If a player buys a £75 starter set, the £60 rules and barely has enough physical coordination to assemble the models, never mind paint them (dysgraphia, physical disabilities, some forms of back and neck injury), what are their options if we would only allow painted figures?

Pay a studio.
Find a friend capable of painting for them.
Be refused games.

It's not an unusual scenario. I have friends who physically cannot paint, and if they did, half of you would be wincing or laughing at their efforts.
But they want to play, and they should not have to justify or pay extra to do so.

 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:
It's the moment after building/ converting a model where I go "this looks nice, time ruin my vision for it by applying paint"' where I always end up dissatisfied with the outcome. If I pay to get them painted, I'm dissatisfied I didn't do it. I am become barrel of hipocrasy. Also I don't enjoy painting on the whole.

I'm similar, but a little different.

I can usually stand painting my converted characters. They're unique, so I always know that I don't have to repeat this (which is always nice), and they're also the models I care most about - so I'm willing to actually spend some time on them. I doubt my painting will win any awards, but I can at least get them to a standard I'm happy with:




However, when it comes to larger conversions or squads, I find that my enthusiasm quickly dies away. Hence my converted grotesques still look like this:



Admittedly, in this case, I have another reason for keeping them dark in that it helps hide my horrible green-stuff molding.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
A guy local to me raised what I consider a very valid point recently.
What about players with disabilities, minor or severe?

If a player buys a £75 starter set, the £60 rules and barely has enough physical coordination to assemble the models, never mind paint them (dysgraphia, physical disabilities, some forms of back and neck injury), what are their options if we would only allow painted figures?

Pay a studio.
Find a friend capable of painting for them.
Be refused games.

It's not an unusual scenario. I have friends who physically cannot paint, and if they did, half of you would be wincing or laughing at their efforts.
But they want to play, and they should not have to justify or pay extra to do so.

That's a whole other thing.

No way i judge anyone if they are unable to- end of.

I don't enjoy painting much at all. I like basing and modelling sometimes- it's the end result i like.
This is why i'd rather play a bad looking army painted by the player than a good looking army painted by someone else (comissioned job).

I think 40k is 50/50 in terms of hobby/gaming.
Plenty of other games out there that are less painty and better ruled.
But each to their own.
So thanks for those who answered my earlier question.

I think, out of my whole collection, I've painted 10 models. This includes my WMH collection.

I just pay someone to paint everything for me. I'm not a big fan of art projects in general, and don't much care for the modeling side of the army. I like the game for the game. If there was a computer game that was 100% true to the tabletop, I would never pull my models out again.

It would have to allow house rules though, the way GW is going.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:
Having a cat who's into playing with your models the second you turn your back also makes life entertaining. (my poor, poor Skaven army... )

I don't like to laugh at the misfortune of others, but there's something amusing about a cat playing with your skaven.

In this case, the standard tactic of 'send more slaves' availed me not.

You often have interesting stories. You mentioned one of your cats likes to jump on the side of the door and the other imitates and fails at it. I always imagine that one as barely grabbing the top of the doorway and flying through the air doing flips meowing and then splatting on the wall outside. The idea makes me laugh.

I used to paint but then my painting skill got better and I got a lot more colors. It doesn't help when you have OCD with those sorts of things. Either I suffer through bouts of OCD and perfectionist issues and paint imperial guard, skaven and vampire counts (why do I tend to go for horde armies?) or I just leave most of them unpainted and just paint when I can. Chances are at least 97% of my skaven army are still gray (or metal, resin, etc.) and some aren't even put together anymore. I used to love building models but sometimes the thrill of that is gone esp. since I work at a plastic molding company and trim plastic all day. Not to mention if the models are core units of something nobody tends to get excited about anyway (the million and a half guardsmen or ork boy) it just gets tedious. Doesn't help the cadian aesthetic (or at least their armor) looks like in their fiction the cadians came off an assembly line (not just the plastic dudesmen but in the lore too).

Dman, I thought that for once you had actually started a good thread that was not just another joke troll attempt but you have disappointed me.

All three of my Guard platoons are fully painted with only a couple of exceptions and all bar three sections and 4 CCS models are based.
My Skaven... Well that is another story (I am working through them).
That said I do not expect my opponent to play with everything done to competition standard. Some people do not have the time and others lack the inclination. Should they wish t play with greys I will not have too much of a problem, I do prefer to face painted armies but that does not matter when it comes to the game.

Once more Dmn you are showing this asshat elitist attitude which everyone dislikes.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
A guy local to me raised what I consider a very valid point recently.
What about players with disabilities, minor or severe?

There's always someone who plays the disability card when painting little plastic men is brought up. If you have a legit disability, then fine. No one's going to make fun of or exclude someone with a disability. But the list of disabilities that allow you to sit and assemble tiny pieces but somehow lack the ability to hold a paintbrush is pretty narrow, yes?

So, let's not bring up the 1% or less of gamers who suffer from such maladies in these discussions. Cripes, I know more personal details about some of you than my own family.

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
A guy local to me raised what I consider a very valid point recently.
What about players with disabilities, minor or severe?

There's always someone who plays the disability card when painting little plastic men is brought up. If you have a legit disability, then fine. No one's going to make fun of or exclude someone with a disability. But the list of disabilities that allow you to sit and assemble tiny pieces but somehow lack the ability to hold a paintbrush is pretty narrow, yes?

So, let's not bring up the 1% or less of gamers who suffer from such maladies in these discussions. Cripes, I know more personal details about some of you than my own family.

You do know you can have someone assemble your army for you pretty quickly as it doesn't take that much time to glue the models together, painting on the other hand is a much bigger time sink.

Don't forget, paint and brushes is also expensive, which I know is silly in a game as expensive as 40k, but that basic amount of paint can easily be another box of models or an upgrade from a small box to a big box, which is pretty big when you're starting the game.

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
A guy local to me raised what I consider a very valid point recently.
What about players with disabilities, minor or severe?

There's always someone who plays the disability card when painting little plastic men is brought up. If you have a legit disability, then fine. No one's going to make fun of or exclude someone with a disability. But the list of disabilities that allow you to sit and assemble tiny pieces but somehow lack the ability to hold a paintbrush is pretty narrow, yes?

So, let's not bring up the 1% or less of gamers who suffer from such maladies in these discussions. Cripes, I know more personal details about some of you than my own family.

We were not sat picking hypothetical issues out if the air.
This was a common enough issue in our town for it to occur to us as a real circumstance.
I just gave common examples of people with hidden disabilities that would struggle to paint.
Having spent a lot of time socialising, travelling and occasionally freelancing with the wider wargaming scene, that "1%" is total bunkum.

Okay, I'll ask again: what physical or mental limitation allows one to assemble little plastic figures but not hold a paintbrush? For that matter, what financial limitation allows one to purchase wargaming models, but not paint and brushes?

 the_Armyman wrote:
Okay, I'll ask again: what physical or mental limitation allows one to assemble little plastic figures but not hold a paintbrush?

Colour-blindness immediately springs to mind.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 master of ordinance wrote:
Dman, I thought that for once you had actually started a good thread that was not just another joke troll attempt but you have disappointed me.

You did?! He picked probably the most flamebait issue on Dakka, one that consistently brings out the same uncompromising views from the same handful of shouty people, and you thought for a moment that he was being sincere?

 the_Armyman wrote:
Okay, I'll ask again: what physical or mental limitation allows one to assemble little plastic figures but not hold a paintbrush? For that matter, what financial limitation allows one to purchase wargaming models, but not paint and brushes?

And I'll tell you again, a person might not be able to do either, but it's significantly easier to get someone to build some models for you than it is to get someone to paint them. Also, anything that causes shaking hands, since you can manage to slot things together with time, but painting is pretty much impossible, unless you are really into abstract postmodernist art.

What financial limitations? There are a ton. If you're trying to build a list, there's literally no benefit to having painted models if you can't buy the whole list, not everyone buys their army in one large lump, a lot of people buy a little at a time, and when they're doing that, spending 25$+ or more on a can of primer, a single brush, and 3 paints is a big difference. Sure you can get a paint set from GW for like 50$ but that's the difference between having the Commander your list needs or not.

Don't forget, it's also an aspect of time, and if you don't believe you'll have enough time to really paint, that financial investment in paint all of a sudden because that much more undesirable. Oh, and yes, I'm sure you'll say something like "But if you don't have time to paint, you don't have time for 40k" and no, that's not the case, because they could have time for one or the other, but not both, and they probably don't want to sacrifice playing the game for painting.

These are my favorite threads >

Paint your minis, hippie.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
I don't paint my models because I don't enjoy painting. I find it boring, slow, and it hurts my neck and upper back. I even got a bar table and a drafting chair with an adjustable height to try to fix that last part, and it helped a bit with the neck and upper back pain, but not much. I've tried putting on music, and putting on TV shows to listen to, and it helped for a few sessions but eventually that wore off. I've tried painting for 45 minutes a day, but eventually I stopped because I'd rather be doing things other than painting.

I will not even try to use lack of time as an excuse for myself, because I don't work and I don't go to school as a result of a medical disability, which gives me pretty much all day to myself.

As for how I got into a tabletop wargame where the models don't come pre-painted, I had previously been playing MageKnight when I stumbled across one of my friends playing 40k with his friends. It looked like fun, so I bought a box of Dire Avengers a few months later with my saved allowance money. When I got the box home and opened it was when I found out that the models didn't come pre-built or pre-painted. And then for the first couple of years, I actually did enjoy painting the models. But that changed at some point.

It sounds like you're leaning forwards to bring your eyes closer to the model. You need to get closer by lowering your chair instead.

Many people sit too high, you have to go quite low even with good eye sight. A draftsmans chair is generally not ideal because they're quite tall.

I got a bar table too, as you might've read. Bar tables are quite tall. And my drafting chair has an adjustable height. Combined, I got them to a balancing point between having my face close to the models, and being able to see the parts and paints on my desk without standing up.

 Las wrote:
These are my favorite threads >

Paint your minis, hippie.

That's it! I'm turning my painting and modeling blog into one where I acquire professionally painted models and re-paint them a grey to specifically look like unpainted models!

 Tinkrr wrote:

 Las wrote:
These are my favorite threads >

Paint your minis, hippie.

That's it! I'm turning my painting and modeling blog into one where I acquire professionally painted models and re-paint them a grey to specifically look like unpainted models!

I recommend using a non-GW semi-gloss grey primer spray. But it's not perfect, you'll want to apply some glossy varnish to small areas near part joins to simulate glue stains.

 Pouncey wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:

 Las wrote:
These are my favorite threads >

Paint your minis, hippie.

That's it! I'm turning my painting and modeling blog into one where I acquire professionally painted models and re-paint them a grey to specifically look like unpainted models!

I recommend using a non-GW semi-gloss grey primer spray. But it's not perfect, you'll want to apply some glossy varnish to small areas near part joins to simulate glue stains.

Don't forget to add to add tiny bits of greenstuff to some parts to simulate realistic mold lines!



I could never bring myself to playing with unpainted miniatures. I don't care if it takes years before I get my army ready for its first game, everything will be painted, always.
I do mind if other people don't paint their miniatures too, but not so much as to refuse to play with them. I'll happily play against your gray plastic legion of doom. I am just of the opinion that if you don't paint, you are better off playing video games. The point of a miniatures game is the miniatures, after all.

Dman137 wrote:

 Matthew wrote:
Some people don't have time, some people just don't want to, and some people feel like they're too bad to paint.

everyone has time to paint, it's called being lazy and not wanting to that's the problem

Um, what?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Captain Joystick wrote:
I live in southern Ontario.

The warmest, balmiest part of Canada.

There are two three-month long windows in which the local weather might be friendly to spray-on primers. Which is further complicated if you don't plan on doing it piecemeal in the late hours after work or on the weekend.

No, I don't fault anyone for missing that window or not wanting to risk trying it during the humid, damp, or frosty months.

go to the garage and prime there

[color=cyan]Not everyone can afford/have access to a well ventilated garage with space./color]

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:

 Las wrote:
These are my favorite threads >

Paint your minis, hippie.

That's it! I'm turning my painting and modeling blog into one where I acquire professionally painted models and re-paint them a grey to specifically look like unpainted models!

I recommend using a non-GW semi-gloss grey primer spray. But it's not perfect, you'll want to apply some glossy varnish to small areas near part joins to simulate glue stains.

Don't forget to add to add tiny bits of greenstuff to some parts to simulate realistic mold lines!



I could never bring myself to playing with unpainted miniatures. I don't care if it takes years before I get my army ready for its first game, everything will be painted, always.
I do mind if other people don't paint their miniatures too, but not so much as to refuse to play with them. I'll happily play against your gray plastic legion of doom. I am just of the opinion that if you don't paint, you are better off playing video games. The point of a miniatures game is the miniatures, after all.

Funnily, that's pretty much exactly what I've been doing. : D

I've put in 2 months of playtime on my main character in World of Warcraft alone since the new expansion came out about 14 months ago. With a total of over a year across all of my characters combined since 2007, not counting the ones that got deleted at various points.

That's in addition to the 2,000+ hours I've spent playing Star Trek Online since 2013, as well as hundreds of hours in Planetside 2 and yet more time in various other video games I've tried.

Along with the countless hours I've spent browsing and posting on various forum sites. Tens of thousands of posts in the past decade across a few different websites.

 the_Armyman wrote:
Okay, I'll ask again: what physical or mental limitation allows one to assemble little plastic figures but not hold a paintbrush? For that matter, what financial limitation allows one to purchase wargaming models, but not paint and brushes?

I already named dysgraphia. Hand tremors. Injuries that cause pain when focused over a desk for any great time.

We both know that a great many of the kits lock into place whilst being assembled. Apart from resin, it's surprisingly difficult to put the kits together entirely wrong if you do it in the right order.

I don't know what you're trying to prove, or why, but it's extremely tedious.

Yes some people over exaggerate. I know a great many who do not.

Also, if we're talking about people who are physically unable to paint then it's pretty likely that their assembly isn't going to be the highest quality. It's very easy to put plastic kits together if you aren't too concerned about precise details like mold line removal or conversions, and it's quick enough that it's probably not too hard to get someone to do it for you at that level. I doubt there are very many people making beautiful professional-level conversions and then saying "I can't paint this".

I personally love my painted models, and will only field an unpainted one if I really need to. I don't mind how painted my opponent's army is (Though it is way cooler when theirs is painted too). But personally I paint everything that's going on the table.


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 the_Armyman wrote:
Okay, I'll ask again: what physical or mental limitation allows one to assemble little plastic figures but not hold a paintbrush? For that matter, what financial limitation allows one to purchase wargaming models, but not paint and brushes?

Well, If you look at each paint pot being 2.5 quid, and good brushes being up to 10, you can actually buy something like a Tactical Squad with the same money one would spend on a decent range of paints.

TBH, I don't bother removing mold lines, and apart from some minor unsteadiness and clumsiness resulting in dropped parts, I don't have a physical or mental problem building models. I do take a pair of clippers to the vents and more serious flash though.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
A guy local to me raised what I consider a very valid point recently.
What about players with disabilities, minor or severe?

If a player buys a £75 starter set, the £60 rules and barely has enough physical coordination to assemble the models, never mind paint them (dysgraphia, physical disabilities, some forms of back and neck injury), what are their options if we would only allow painted figures?

Pay a studio.
Find a friend capable of painting for them.
Be refused games.

It's not an unusual scenario. I have friends who physically cannot paint, and if they did, half of you would be wincing or laughing at their efforts.
But they want to play, and they should not have to justify or pay extra to do so.

I've got a disability, I have colour vision defect. It's not notifiable though there are various professions I am barred from because of it.

It doesn't stop me painting, just some of my models are not well received.

 TheManWithNoPlan wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
Okay, I'll ask again: what physical or mental limitation allows one to assemble little plastic figures but not hold a paintbrush? For that matter, what financial limitation allows one to purchase wargaming models, but not paint and brushes?

Well, If you look at each paint pot being 2.5 quid, and good brushes being up to 10, you can actually buy something like a Tactical Squad with the same money one would spend on a decent range of paints.

When I first started playing at age 13, it took me 3 months to save up my allowance enough to get a box of Dire Avengers. I used the Testors paints and brushes that I already had for quite a while.

I didn't have a Codex for another three months, nor did I ever own the main rulebook for the entire edition (it was Third, if you were wondering).

 the_Armyman wrote:
Okay, I'll ask again: what physical or mental limitation allows one to assemble little plastic figures but not hold a paintbrush??

My girlfriend can't paint much, but still plays a bit. She doesn't have a condition with a technical name as the doctors have never been able to figure out what exactly is wrong with her, and they've been trying for nearly 30 years.

If she focuses too hard on trying to observe tiny details on small things, it gives her headaches which can progress into vertigo attacks. She can spend days laid up doing little more than sleeping, drinking water, and crawling from the bed to the bathroom so that she can puke in the toilet; as getting up to walk will result in her puking on the floor. When she does paint (which she does every now and again) she can spend maybe half an hour on it every few days but will still get a headache. And she plays nids.. So she has a couple of painted gaunts, but little else.

I myself have some lower back pain and also don't have an ideal painting location. So whilst I can paint for much longer stretches of time (a couple of hours) it comes at the cost of physical pain and discomfort which will persist for a substantial amount of time afterwards. I'm also something of a perfectionist, despite my painting not being anything amazing. So I'll spend time highlighting the rises in clothing, skin, and boots; lightly weathering every gun, grenade, and melee weapon. I have an army which has about 150 'cannon fodder' models in my troop slots, another 50+ to man stationary arty pieces, and then between 10-20 semi-elite fodder which is an escort for my HQ units.

No one who didn't play the old monkey skaven has a right to say paint your army..... I still cry at night.

things to glue 2 part chest/ waist/ 2 arms /tail/ to base /shield
Then paint 200+ who all look so much the same after the first 50 you are not sure if it is a endless nightmare or you died somewhere in between. talk about a limbo

My armies are typically painted well, only thing is that most of my troops are not based. Purely personal preference there.

I don't really have a problem fighting against unpainted armies. I do recommend that people prime/spray paint their armies with their preferred base color, even without details filled in the one color does add a lot more character to a force than unpainted plastic. For example I have a Tau opponent, his painted forces feature a winter pattern, anything he fields that isn't fully painted is typically primed white. I feel that just this priming alone adds a lot to the force, adding a surprising amount of character.

Again though, I don't really have any issues with unpainted. When I make the above recommendation I do it in a friendly manner, I don't put anybody's stuff down or anything like that.

things to glue 2 part chest/ waist/ 2 arms /tail/ to base /shield
Then paint 200+ who all look so much the same after the first 50 you are not sure if it is a endless nightmare or you died somewhere in between. talk about a limbo

Lol! I know a bit of that pain. I play Imperial Guard, and frankly, the basic foot soldier can get to be quite boring!

Elemental wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
Okay, I'll ask again: what physical or mental limitation allows one to assemble little plastic figures but not hold a paintbrush?

Colour-blindness immediately springs to mind.

Colorblind people are not blind in the strictest sense. Plenty of colorblind people dress themselves and don't look like a mismatched mess. They also have friends or family they can ask if they question their own color choices. Not an excuse.

Buttery Commissar wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
Okay, I'll ask again: what physical or mental limitation allows one to assemble little plastic figures but not hold a paintbrush? For that matter, what financial limitation allows one to purchase wargaming models, but not paint and brushes?

I already named dysgraphia. Hand tremors. Injuries that cause pain when focused over a desk for any great time.

One of my best friends' hands shake terribly. He still manages to put three colors on his minis. You do not need to be bent over a table in an uncomfortable position to paint. Three colors and a wash is pretty easy to achieve from half an arm's length away. People with these disabilities have to compromise and realize that eyes and lenses might be a bit out of their reach. Not an excuse.

We both know that a great many of the kits lock into place whilst being assembled. Apart from resin, it's surprisingly difficult to put the kits together entirely wrong if you do it in the right order.

Some pieces lock into place like torsos. Arms are often a different story and can be a little challenging for people with good eyesight and steady hands. It's not a hobby for everyone. Again, if you can put them together, you can slop paint on them. Not an excuse.

I don't know what you're trying to prove, or why, but it's extremely tedious.

I'm sorry this discussion is so tiring for you, dear. I'm "trying to prove" that those with disabilities rarely make as many excuses for themselves as others who claim to have their best interests in mind.

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 the_Armyman wrote:
Okay, I'll ask again: what physical or mental limitation allows one to assemble little plastic figures but not hold a paintbrush? For that matter, what financial limitation allows one to purchase wargaming models, but not paint and brushes?

Well, If you look at each paint pot being 2.5 quid, and good brushes being up to 10, you can actually buy something like a Tactical Squad with the same money one would spend on a decent range of paints.

 the_Armyman wrote:


You can get a set of brushes and a dozen pots of craft paint at most craft stores for less than $20. You don't need to buy GW paints and tools, and the larger pots of craft paints will last a long time if not wasted. Not an excuse.

So I can either buy paint, or two Crisis Suits on Ebay for 20$, I wonder which is more beneficial to a new player on a budget trying to play a game of 40k, some aesthetic things for the army, or things in the army itself.

 Tinkrr wrote:
So I can either buy paint, or two Crisis Suits on Ebay for 20$, I wonder which is more beneficial to a new player on a budget trying to play a game of 40k, some aesthetic things for the army, or things in the army itself.

The things to finish their models. They can always play smaller games, but putting off painting just means more work to do when they finally get around to it and/or fewer people willing to play against them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 the_Armyman wrote:
Again, if you can put them together, you can slop paint on them.

This is blatantly false. Assembling models is much easier than painting them, unless by "slop paint on them" you literally mean "dip them in a jar of paint". Painting to even a minimal standard requires a lot more focus and fine control than gluing the parts together.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
So I can either buy paint, or two Crisis Suits on Ebay for 20$, I wonder which is more beneficial to a new player on a budget trying to play a game of 40k, some aesthetic things for the army, or things in the army itself.

The things to finish their models. They can always play smaller games, but putting off painting just means more work to do when they finally get around to it and/or fewer people willing to play against them.

What if people don't want to play smaller games? Not the person with the unpainted army, but the people around them, or they want to play in tournaments which have set point limits?

I personally prefer painted armies, but I think it's something extra, like a skin in a MOBA, you need to get the base number of champions first before you go out and buy luxury aesthetics.

 Tinkrr wrote:
What if people don't want to play smaller games? Not the person with the unpainted army, but the people around them, or they want to play in tournaments which have set point limits?

Then play a team game to add up to the required points, borrow models, etc. And if people genuinely never want to play anything but tournament practice the hypothetical poor player is screwed anyway. They can't afford to keep up with tournament gaming so they're going to lose every game by huge margins. At least if they put some effort into painting their models they'll have a better experience when they find a new group to play with.

I actually really enjoy playing against unfinished armies. I played my daemons against a30k mechanicum army today. I had all my models very nicely painted (in my own opinion), except for a finecast Bloodthirster and LoC that are stand ins until I get my new model built a painted and a squad of flamers and screamers about 80% done. He had 40 very nicely painted tech thrall an unprimed arch something boss and large robots and small treaded robots unprimed. One of the large robots was just legs and half the treaded ones had only the gun arms instead of both.

It's much easier to talk specifics about the other aspects of the hobby, like modeling and painting, when unfinished models are being used.

I was much happier playing the larger game with the units we wanted and seeing both our armies as a work in progress is great. I'm excited to show up next time with an epic looking Bloodthirster worthy in appearance of the dozens of skulls he reaped in the last two games.

 Peregrine wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 the_Armyman wrote:
Again, if you can put them together, you can slop paint on them.

This is blatantly false. Assembling models is much easier than painting them, unless by "slop paint on them" you literally mean "dip them in a jar of paint". Painting to even a minimal standard requires a lot more focus and fine control than gluing the parts together.

A cadian model can literally be three colors (black, green, flesh) and a wash, and assuming you really hate painting, shouldn't take more than 20-30 minutes to paint (minus drying time). Chaos demons, space marines, eldar guardians, and fire warriors are equally easy with basic techniques. If I'm clipping one of those minis from a sprue, making a small effort to remove visible mold lines, and then glue those parts together, it takes 10-15 minutes. Are we really debating how difficult the whole process is if done to basic standards? We're mincing words over minutes?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In case people missed my original post: I don't care if you paint your mins or not. It's not my time and it's not my money. What I take exception to are all the reasons and excuses people make for not doing it. Just be honest, say you don't care to paint, and be done with it!

 the_Armyman wrote:
A cadian model can literally be three colors (black, green, flesh) and a wash, and assuming you really hate painting, shouldn't take more than 20-30 minutes to paint (minus drying time). Chaos demons, space marines, eldar guardians, and fire warriors are equally easy with basic techniques. If I'm clipping one of those minis from a sprue, making a small effort to remove visible mold lines, and then glue those parts together, it takes 10-15 minutes. Are we really debating how difficult the whole process is if done to basic standards? We're mincing words over minutes?

Oh FFS, it's that easy for people with no disabilities that get in the way of painting. Did you forget the context of the statement I was objecting to?

 Peregrine wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
A cadian model can literally be three colors (black, green, flesh) and a wash, and assuming you really hate painting, shouldn't take more than 20-30 minutes to paint (minus drying time). Chaos demons, space marines, eldar guardians, and fire warriors are equally easy with basic techniques. If I'm clipping one of those minis from a sprue, making a small effort to remove visible mold lines, and then glue those parts together, it takes 10-15 minutes. Are we really debating how difficult the whole process is if done to basic standards? We're mincing words over minutes?

Oh FFS, it's that easy for people with no disabilities that get in the way of painting. Did you forget the context of the statement I was objecting to?

Nope, I read you loud and clear. I do not see people in wheelchairs or people with carpal tunnel or people with serious cognitive disorders at my FLGS, local conventions, or tourneys. Where they exist in our hobby, they are a tiny minority. No one is saying the person with MS is lazy for not painting his minis. I'm just trying to reconcile the number of people who don't paint their minis against this small minority of disabled gamers.

Or are you saying our hobby attracts a disproportionate amount of people with disabilities?

 the_Armyman wrote:


Or are you saying our hobby attracts a disproportionate amount of people with disabilities?

Actually yes, table top games as a whole attract more disabled people than other hobbies as a whole. The reason for this being that most of them are turn based so they don't have the same issues as video games or hobbies that require either quick or precise reaction times. More so, in a table top game it's possible to have an assistant do certain things for you, that you might not be able to do yourself, without them giving you a tactical or strategic advantage, unlike in a large portion of all other competitive activities.

The format is simply more beneficial to people with physical disability than most other things.

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
A cadian model can literally be three colors (black, green, flesh) and a wash, and assuming you really hate painting, shouldn't take more than 20-30 minutes to paint (minus drying time). Chaos demons, space marines, eldar guardians, and fire warriors are equally easy with basic techniques. If I'm clipping one of those minis from a sprue, making a small effort to remove visible mold lines, and then glue those parts together, it takes 10-15 minutes. Are we really debating how difficult the whole process is if done to basic standards? We're mincing words over minutes?

Oh FFS, it's that easy for people with no disabilities that get in the way of painting. Did you forget the context of the statement I was objecting to?

Nope, I read you loud and clear. I do not see people in wheelchairs or people with carpal tunnel or people with serious cognitive disorders at my FLGS, local conventions, or tourneys. Where they exist in our hobby, they are a tiny minority. No one is saying the person with MS is lazy for not painting his minis. I'm just trying to reconcile the number of people who don't paint their minis against this small minority of disabled gamers.

Or are you saying our hobby attracts a disproportionate amount of people with disabilities?

Well, computer programming used to be a profession that had an extremely disproportionate number of people with schizoid personality disorder, along with forest rangers and one other profession I forget. It was because for decades, computer programming was a solo thing where the programmer didn't have to deal with many people, often writing entire products by themself. More recently it's become a more social profession, often requiring teams of programmers and interaction with a growing number of people not directly involved in the work. Social interaction, especially with strangers, is not something that schizoids handle well, and the changing social nature of the job has caused many problems, such as in my dad's case where he ended up having to use all of his banked sick leave and a total of a few years off from work.

Also, you'd be surprised how common physical and mental issues are. For example, did you know that schizophrenics such as myself make up about 1% of all humans?

So it's not inconceivable that tabletop gaming draws a disproportionate number of people with certain health problems.

 the_Armyman wrote:
I'm just trying to reconcile the number of people who don't paint their minis against this small minority of disabled gamers.

Could you provide some examples of people claiming that people with disabilities are a majority (or even a significant minority) of the people who don't paint their models? So far all I've seen is people pointing out that some of the people who don't paint have legitimate reasons for not being able to do so. And "yes, they exist" is not at all the same as "they're the majority".

 Peregrine wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
I'm just trying to reconcile the number of people who don't paint their minis against this small minority of disabled gamers.

Could you provide some examples of people claiming that people with disabilities are a majority (or even a significant minority) of the people who don't paint their models? So far all I've seen is people pointing out that some of the people who don't paint have legitimate reasons for not being able to do so. And "yes, they exist" is not at all the same as "they're the majority".

Hypothetically, if someone showed up for a pick-up game with an unpainted army, would you not enjoy the game or refuse to play them unless they went into detail about how their disability makes painting unfeasible?

 Pouncey wrote:
Hypothetically, if someone showed up for a pick-up game with an unpainted army, would you not enjoy the game or refuse to play them unless they went into detail about how their disability makes painting unfeasible?

What does their disability have to do with it? I'm not going to enjoy the game more just because they have a good reason for doing things I don't like. The real issue here is whether it's appropriate to call someone lazy for not painting and assume that nobody could possibly have a good reason.

And let's be honest here, the vast majority of people who don't paint their armies do not have a disability that prevents them from doing it. They don't paint their armies because they don't want to paint. There is no impossible obstacle in their path, they've simply chosen to spend their time and money on other things.

 Peregrine wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
I'm just trying to reconcile the number of people who don't paint their minis against this small minority of disabled gamers.

Could you provide some examples of people claiming that people with disabilities are a majority (or even a significant minority) of the people who don't paint their models? So far all I've seen is people pointing out that some of the people who don't paint have legitimate reasons for not being able to do so. And "yes, they exist" is not at all the same as "they're the majority".

Then why bring them up? If they're not significantly impacting the point of discussion, why do people feel the need to bring them into the discussion. Because they exist? Everyone here realizes that some people in the hobby have a disability. Some of those people with disabilities can participate in all aspects of the hobby, some of them can't. What was the purpose of bringing them into the discussion if not to strengthen one side of the argument? I've simply rebutted this point with my own observations.

So, in conclusion:

1. There are people who choose to not paint their minis. True.
2. Some of these people, may have a disability. True.
3. Some of these people may have a disability that prevents them from painting their minis. True.
4. This population of people who have both a disability and do not paint their minis are a significant enough subset of the population that they need to be accounted for to answer the question: why don't people paint their minis? False.

I think I've said everything I'm going to say on the matter lest it devolve into something unintended.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
Hypothetically, if someone showed up for a pick-up game with an unpainted army, would you not enjoy the game or refuse to play them unless they went into detail about how their disability makes painting unfeasible?

What does their disability have to do with it? I'm not going to enjoy the game more just because they have a good reason for doing things I don't like. The real issue here is whether it's appropriate to call someone lazy for not painting and assume that nobody could possibly have a good reason.

And let's be honest here, the vast majority of people who don't paint their armies do not have a disability that prevents them from doing it. They don't paint their armies because they don't want to paint. There is no impossible obstacle in their path, they've simply chosen to spend their time and money on other things.

I think I quoted the wrong person. : /

 the_Armyman wrote:
Or are you saying our hobby attracts a disproportionate amount of people with disabilities?

I think it probably does. Several of my mates started the hobby because of an injury that stopped them playing sports and I reckon there's probably a disproportionate number of wargamers who have long term disabilities that have stopped them doing other things.

I don't think there's too many people with disabilities completely stopping them, but I think there's a lot of people with issues that makes it very unpleasant to the point of it being a legitimate excuse. I myself get inflammation in my hands very easily that prevents me working on models for a long period. I think I'd really struggle to paint an army these days since it's gotten worse over the past few years. I do still paint though, but I tend to paint one-offs rather than entire armies (my painted armies are all from years gone by). It's not uncommon to hear of people with similar complaints.

One of the best modellers I know has issues with his hands that make it hard for him to work on models for any period. He tends to only build large stuff these days because of it.

 Peregrine wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Colour minimum is such a stupid house rule, my nids are bone purple and then nuln oil'ed since its a swarm army. Isn't the best looking but it looks a lot better than grey. Shouldn't mean I don't get to play with them.

That would be three colors. Or you could highlight the edges a lighter shade of purple. Or paint the eyes. Etc. I don't think there's a single model in 40k that can be painted adequately without using at least three colors.

They count shades as colors? If so i'm good then, but no chance ill be painting hundreds of gaunts with more than my basic paintjob, way too much time investment to hit some silly requirement.

OgreChubbs wrote:
No one who didn't play the old monkey skaven has a right to say paint your army..... I still cry at night.

things to glue 2 part chest/ waist/ 2 arms /tail/ to base /shield
Then paint 200+ who all look so much the same after the first 50 you are not sure if it is a endless nightmare or you died somewhere in between. talk about a limbo

*Shudders* Please dont, I still have nightmares about these. My old Skaven will be finished one day but I just gave in after Clanrat #218 and have only been able to paint a few every now and again ever since. I have several units done but they are a nightmare to do and even my GUard where better because I needed no where near as many.

For me, it is very simple- Nobody has the rights to tell what I should do in my spare time. I have no such rights either. Ofcourse that playing with painted models is better, but snobbism,elitarism and hostility are not a good price to pay for that. It is a hobby after all, something that you do in your spare time and should be enjoyable for the person that is doing it. If anyone is too snobbish about playing against unpainted models, he is probably not worth playing against.

Luckily, I love painting and have painted 70+ models this year alone. But sometimes I don't feel like painting. Sometimes I would like to play with the model(s) I've just bought or want to try a radically different list than the painted one I am playing with. I am in the hobby for fun ,so I would like you to get off my lawn and take all your ideas about how I should spend my free time with you(not talking about anyone in particular here).

I live in a three-room apartment and my wife has categorically forbidden me to paint indoors, leaving... the balcony. It's about to get -20 outside.

Sea of gray it is for me!

I'm completely honest about it. Yes I could get all my armies painted if I really wanted to, but I only paint when I feel like it.
I'm not going to force myself doing something against my will for the enjoyment of elitists that can't enjoy a game unless people satisfy their made up terms and conditions.

The amount of fully finished armies that regularly come on the table at the GW I frequent can be counted on one hand and my Necrons are one of them.

 the_Armyman wrote:

Elemental wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
Okay, I'll ask again: what physical or mental limitation allows one to assemble little plastic figures but not hold a paintbrush?

Colour-blindness immediately springs to mind.

Colorblind people are not blind in the strictest sense. Plenty of colorblind people dress themselves and don't look like a mismatched mess. They also have friends or family they can ask if they question their own color choices. Not an excuse.

I'm sorry but that statement reeks of ignorance.
How is being colourblind not a valid excuse for not wanting/being able to paint? This is LEAGUES apart from dressing yourself.

I could ask my friends or family about their opinions about my color choice. But wouldn't it be a waste of both my time and money to buy/use paints I myself cannot tell apart? Isn't it first and foremost important that I like my own army regardless of how others see it?
I try my dearest when I'm painting but being colorblind is a big deal when you're painting. Suggesting otherwise just shows your ignorance on the subject.

I have shakey hands and it really helps me drybrush quickly, if not particularly neatly!

That said, it is a massive pain for everything else.

Over the decades I have learnt techniques to minimise the effect, but it is still a problem for detail work.

Alcibiades wrote:
I live in a three-room apartment and my wife has categorically forbidden me to paint indoors, leaving... the balcony. It's about to get -20 outside.

Sea of gray it is for me!

There are no fumes from water-based paint... The glue does produce fumes though - that's okay?

But if she's insisting then:



Problem solved.

I don't see very well. I use glasses where the lenses are -14 dioptres strong, and they steal a lot of lux. It's really difficult for me to paint in the winter when there's limited daylight, because when I'm not working in daylight I have difficulties seeing the fine details.

I prefer to assemble my models in the winter and paint in the spring and summer. Unfortunately, this spring my father passed away suddenly and I couldn't get myself to paint much.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
I live in a three-room apartment and my wife has categorically forbidden me to paint indoors, leaving... the balcony. It's about to get -20 outside.

Sea of gray it is for me!

There are no fumes from water-based paint... The glue does produce fumes though - that's okay?

But if she's insisting then:



Problem solved.

Very few paints are purely water based. The hobby paints we use do have fumes, but not a lot, you'd have to be quite sensitive to have a problem with it.

I don't think exhausting the air would be a great plan if it's -20 outside, surely it'd massively increase your heating bill.

On thing that I've seen mentioned a few times here, but doesn't make sense to me, is that people aren't ok with unpainted models, but will then say things like "just slop some paint on so they aren't unpainted" and all of a sudden it's ok?

I understand that not everyone is a great painter, heck if you look at my blog you'll notice I'm not that good either, but why is it ok if someone doesn't care about painting just throws on some paint almost at random and not if they just leave it unpainted?

 Tinkrr wrote:
I understand that not everyone is a great painter, heck if you look at my blog you'll notice I'm not that good either, but why is it ok if someone doesn't care about painting just throws on some paint almost at random and not if they just leave it unpainted?

Nobody is saying that. When they say "slap some paint on it" they mean "paint it quickly with basic techniques", not literally "put some random blobs of paint on the model so it's technically not bare plastic".

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
I understand that not everyone is a great painter, heck if you look at my blog you'll notice I'm not that good either, but why is it ok if someone doesn't care about painting just throws on some paint almost at random and not if they just leave it unpainted?

Nobody is saying that. When they say "slap some paint on it" they mean "paint it quickly with basic techniques", not literally "put some random blobs of paint on the model so it's technically not bare plastic".

That's exactly what people are saying when they're discussing people who don't like painting but want them to paint the minis. Those people will probably go for something in mind but will do it so quickly it'll be indistinguishable from their original intent and it will make them dislike the aspect even more, thus reducing the quality.

As for no one saying that, you even quoted a person who said that:

e. Again, if you can put them together, you can slop paint on them. Not an excuse.

Oh dman I really can't take you seriously. I'm painting striping alot of my stuff plus I have Around 80 cultists atleast to paint. Sorry for not shading or high lighting I don't have time for it plus due to ADHD I have a short attention span soo

While I don't like playing my own models unpainted, I do when I don't have them ready (really slow painter and also hate painting).

I do prefer playing against people with painted armies; looks so much better and is easier (for the most part) to tell what things are too. I'm not going to browbeat someone over not painting, but it is not hard to paint the odd guy or two every now and then almost regardless of any other demands on your time or ability.

 Tinkrr wrote:
On thing that I've seen mentioned a few times here, but doesn't make sense to me, is that people aren't ok with unpainted models, but will then say things like "just slop some paint on so they aren't unpainted" and all of a sudden it's ok?

I understand that not everyone is a great painter, heck if you look at my blog you'll notice I'm not that good either, but why is it ok if someone doesn't care about painting just throws on some paint almost at random and not if they just leave it unpainted?

Yes, it might seem strange, but there is it. People seem to recognise and appreciate if a guy has put some effort into his figures, even if they aren't technically very good.

Personally I think that's elitist. These days I don't even assemble my models. I just put the box on the table. You can create any army much more quickly and the modern box artwork is really a lot more attractive than my painting skill.

Oh if only I could do that. My GW has a PE unpainted model policy which makes people have to paint to avoid being penalized. Priming gets you off the hook.

I have started to paint but being a full time student devotes a lot of my attention away from having an army done in a month.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:
On thing that I've seen mentioned a few times here, but doesn't make sense to me, is that people aren't ok with unpainted models, but will then say things like "just slop some paint on so they aren't unpainted" and all of a sudden it's ok?

I understand that not everyone is a great painter, heck if you look at my blog you'll notice I'm not that good either, but why is it ok if someone doesn't care about painting just throws on some paint almost at random and not if they just leave it unpainted?

Yes, it might seem strange, but there is it. People seem to recognise and appreciate if a guy has put some effort into his figures, even if they aren't technically very good.

Personally I think that's elitist. These days I don't even assemble my models. I just put the box on the table. You can create any army much more quickly and the modern box artwork is really a lot more attractive than my painting skill.

I assume you're being sarcastic... but I do find it odd why people care so much if another player is making progress even if it's impossibly slow and they'll never get anywhere with it or they are painting so poorly and despise it so much that the army is going to look like gak. It almost seems sadistic to me, like "I suffered through this, so you have to as well"

I'm largely indifferent if I play against a half painted army or a badly painted army or an unpainted army. They all look similarly bad on the table as far as I'm concerned, if I come up against such an opponent I just roll with it and try and enjoy the game.

Most people probably do recognise if someone is making the effort to get their army painted even if it's slow going.

I've played against people who apologised for not having yet finished their army due to time pressure, etc, and had a good game.

The question of playing someone with a grey army has never arisen in my experience, though.

Without putting any moral attitude to it, I think everyone would agree that people who want to play wargames with painted armies do not want to play with unpainted armies, and there's no reason to expect them to.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Most people probably do recognise if someone is making the effort to get their army painted even if it's slow going.

I recognise the effort, I just don't expect the effort. I guess that's what I find a bit strange, the expectation that people have to be progressing their army even if it's unreasonably slow, they hate doing it or looks like gak. If people are painting slowly but still enjoying it and enjoying watching their army grow then I respect that. It took me 3 years to assemble and paint my Tyranid army (though I didn't play any games in its unfinished state because I had other models to use), so I respect that.

It's just if I'm lowering my standard to the point of playing with an unpainted, half painted or poorly painted army, it doesn't really affect me whether the person is making progress or just not trying at all, it still looks like gak on the other side of the table to me

Without putting any moral attitude to it, I think everyone would agree that people who want to play wargames with painted armies do not want to play with unpainted armies, and there's no reason to expect them to.

Of course, if someone doesn't want to play against an unpainted army that's fine by me. I just find it an odd attitude when people are willing to accept partially painted armies as long as someone is making progress even if it looks like gak and/or the person hates doing it and/or they aren't going to get it finished in my life time.

It's not that I don't understand the viewpoint, I do, people are giving concession for perceived effort... I just find it a little bit amusing that it has become the default position of so many people to operate that way when in some cases (of course not all, probably not even most) it almost seems sadistic when the opponent doesn't have the desire to make time for it for whatever reason.

I find it odd how many people get hung up on "you play the game, why not paint the minis", but no one seems to mind those who paint, but don't game. Why is one okay and not the other?

If you're arguing that it's prettier to see a painted army on the tabletop than a grey one, then it's also prettier to see a well painted army on a tabletop with scenery and another army, than just leaving it on a shelf.

I don't really give a feth. If you wanna paint, paint, if you don't, don't. Totally appreciate and respect a nice looking army, but also know that it's not everyone's cup of tea. Be a good opponent and everyone's going to have a good time.

Whittlesey40k wrote:
I find it odd how many people get hung up on "you play the game, why not paint the minis", but no one seems to mind those who paint, but don't game. Why is one okay and not the other?

If you're arguing that it's prettier to see a painted army on the tabletop than a grey one, then it's also prettier to see a well painted army on a tabletop with scenery and another army, than just leaving it on a shelf.

I don't really give a feth. If you wanna paint, paint, if you don't, don't. Totally appreciate and respect a nice looking army, but also know that it's not everyone's cup of tea. Be a good opponent and everyone's going to have a good time.

That one makes more sense to me because a painted army that sits on a shelf doesn't personally affect me, however an unpainted army that is on the gaming table does.

Also I do like the look of a fully painted army and I think it looks just as good on the shelf as it does on a table, so if people want to leave it on the shelf that makes sense to me.

Paint, don't paint, I don't care. Just don't be TFG when we play. I could care less about whether you paint or not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
A cadian model can literally be three colors (black, green, flesh) and a wash, and assuming you really hate painting, shouldn't take more than 20-30 minutes to paint (minus drying time). Chaos demons, space marines, eldar guardians, and fire warriors are equally easy with basic techniques. If I'm clipping one of those minis from a sprue, making a small effort to remove visible mold lines, and then glue those parts together, it takes 10-15 minutes. Are we really debating how difficult the whole process is if done to basic standards? We're mincing words over minutes?

Oh FFS, it's that easy for people with no disabilities that get in the way of painting. Did you forget the context of the statement I was objecting to?

Nope, I read you loud and clear. I do not see people in wheelchairs or people with carpal tunnel or people with serious cognitive disorders at my FLGS, local conventions, or tourneys. Where they exist in our hobby, they are a tiny minority. No one is saying the person with MS is lazy for not painting his minis. I'm just trying to reconcile the number of people who don't paint their minis against this small minority of disabled gamers.

Or are you saying our hobby attracts a disproportionate amount of people with disabilities?

*Read the title, skimmed the first page, went to the second to last page* Yep, this is about what I expected.

Thankfully all the old farts in my club point blankly refuse to use any unpainted figures in games, so the issue never arises. Its not even a rule... The use of unpainted figures just isnt something that anyone has ever thought of doing.

Perhaps its the fact that we play historical as well as fantasy/sci-fi we have that attitude, but even the guys who dont do historicals have the same attitude.

For us its all about the visual aspect and the total experience of the hobby. We dont all have the same amount of time to paint, but we all seem to get armies done. It just takes time, such as my Dwarf army that took 11 months to complete.

I guess the advantage to us is we have no need to play unpainted stuff as while painting the new army we have other stuff painted that we play with. So as one army gets finished, it gets played with and the next army joins the painting queue.

As I say, it works for our group as everyone has the same mindset and its never even arisen as an option. Even our boardgames, such as Imperial Assault get painted before use.

But I suspect we are something of an oddity in general, but even those gamers from other clubs who visit from time to time, only have painted stuff.

Do I expect others to do the same? No I dont. Its a personal hobby and what other people do is none of my business. Would I play someone with an unpainted army... No, I probably wouldnt to be honest. For me the whole experience is about the spectacle. In the same way, I will only game with decent terrain on a table. To me, a wargame is two fully painted armies on a good looking terrain table.

Is that elitist?

Dunno... Dont care. Its the way I do my hobby and thats all that matters. Couldnt careless what others do or what they think of the way I do my hobby. It matters not a jot to me.

Whittlesey40k wrote:
I find it odd how many people get hung up on "you play the game, why not paint the minis", but no one seems to mind those who paint, but don't game. Why is one okay and not the other?

I personally don't understand the people who paint but have no intention of ever playing. It's like, sure, they might look good on a shelf, but if you just get some guys who look cool, it just seems like a waste of time and money to me. I just don't get it. At least model cars/planes and such have some public knowledge, like you can put it somewhere for other people to see and they can understand a car.

Big P wrote:
Thankfully all the old farts in my club point blankly refuse to use any unpainted figures in games, so the issue never arises. Its not even a rule... The use of unpainted figures just isnt something that anyone has ever thought of doing.

Perhaps its the fact that we play historical as well as fantasy/sci-fi we have that attitude, but even the guys who dont do historicals have the same attitude.

For us its all about the visual aspect and the total experience of the hobby. We dont all have the same amount of time to paint, but we all seem to get armies done. It just takes time, such as my Dwarf army that took 11 months to complete.

I guess the advantage to us is we have no need to play unpainted stuff as while painting the new army we have other stuff painted that we play with. So as one army gets finished, it gets played with and the next army joins the painting queue.

As I say, it works for our group as everyone has the same mindset and its never even arisen as an option. Even our boardgames, such as Imperial Assault get painted before use.

But I suspect we are something of an oddity in general, but even those gamers from other clubs who visit from time to time, only have painted stuff.

Do I expect others to do the same? No I dont. Its a personal hobby and what other people do is none of my business. Would I play someone with an unpainted army... No, I probably wouldnt to be honest. For me the whole experience is about the spectacle. In the same way, I will only game with decent terrain on a table. To me, a wargame is two fully painted armies on a good looking terrain table.

Is that elitist?

Dunno... Dont care. Its the way I do my hobby and thats all that matters. Couldnt careless what others do or what they think of the way I do my hobby. It matters not a jot to me.

I'd be interested to hear how many newcomers your LGS gets. Honestly, that attitude sounds terrible and I'd rather not play there, painted or not if that's the attitude of most of the gamers at your club.

Whittlesey40k wrote:
I find it odd how many people get hung up on "you play the game, why not paint the minis", but no one seems to mind those who paint, but don't game. Why is one okay and not the other?

If you're arguing that it's prettier to see a painted army on the tabletop than a grey one, then it's also prettier to see a well painted army on a tabletop with scenery and another army, than just leaving it on a shelf.

I don't really give a feth. If you wanna paint, paint, if you don't, don't. Totally appreciate and respect a nice looking army, but also know that it's not everyone's cup of tea. Be a good opponent and everyone's going to have a good time.

If I have to play against unpainted miniatures it greatly lessens the fun and enjoyment of 40k. I know this is true for many other people as well. On the other hand, if someone collects, paints and doesn't play, no one is affected by that.

Let us compare 40k to a cake competition. The goal is for everyone to make a delicious cake, then everyone will eat from the cakes and judge wich one is the best. People who bring unpainted armies are like the people who just bring a cake bought in the supermarket to the competition. It takes away the fun of the competition for those people who put in a lot of effort to bake a cake themselves.

Actually, a person painting and not playing does affect their local gaming scene. It affects them by depriving them of a potential opponent. Although it's not really any different in that regard than choosing to game at a different location, or not being into tabletop gaming at all.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

Whittlesey40k wrote:
I find it odd how many people get hung up on "you play the game, why not paint the minis", but no one seems to mind those who paint, but don't game. Why is one okay and not the other?

If you're arguing that it's prettier to see a painted army on the tabletop than a grey one, then it's also prettier to see a well painted army on a tabletop with scenery and another army, than just leaving it on a shelf.

I don't really give a feth. If you wanna paint, paint, if you don't, don't. Totally appreciate and respect a nice looking army, but also know that it's not everyone's cup of tea. Be a good opponent and everyone's going to have a good time.

If I have to play against unpainted miniatures it greatly lessens the fun and enjoyment of 40k. I know this is true for many other people as well. On the other hand, if someone collects, paints and doesn't play, no one is affected by that.

Let us compare 40k to a cake competition. The goal is for everyone to make a delicious cake, then everyone will eat from the cakes and judge wich one is the best. People who bring unpainted armies are like the people who just bring a cake bought in the supermarket to the competition. It takes away the fun of the competition for those people who put in a lot of effort to bake a cake themselves.

Some people want to enter a cake competition, some people just want to eat cake.

 KharnsRightHand wrote:

Whittlesey40k wrote:
I find it odd how many people get hung up on "you play the game, why not paint the minis", but no one seems to mind those who paint, but don't game. Why is one okay and not the other?

I personally don't understand the people who paint but have no intention of ever playing. It's like, sure, they might look good on a shelf, but if you just get some guys who look cool, it just seems like a waste of time and money to me. I just don't get it. At least model cars/planes and such have some public knowledge, like you can put it somewhere for other people to see and they can understand a car.

Apparently they make up 50% of sales says GW.

And having worked for the great enemy I can tell you that is an absolute crock, the "collectors" were one in a hundred.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Pouncey wrote:
I don't paint my models because I don't enjoy painting. I find it boring, slow, and it hurts my neck and upper back.

Try painting a different style then. Speed washing is highly effective and doesn't take much, models take 15-30 minutes. I completed an entire death guard army in 12 hours and came in 3rd at a 50 person tournament. It works on guard, orks, nids, and nurgle anything the best.

Here's the death guard example:

Prime White
Watered down loren forest for armour, watered down red for the boltgun, watered down brow for gloves/pouches. Make it so you have the paint flow into the recesses.
Dry brush bone
Paint metals
Agrax earth shade

Done. 15 minutes a model.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:
I don't paint my models because I don't enjoy painting. I find it boring, slow, and it hurts my neck and upper back.

Try painting a different style then. Speed washing is highly effective and doesn't take much, models take 15-30 minutes. I completed an entire death guard army in 12 hours and came in 3rd at a 50 person tournament. It works on guard, orks, nids, and nurgle anything the best.

Here's the death guard example:

Prime White
Watered down loren forest for armour, watered down red for the boltgun, watered down brow for gloves/pouches. Make it so you have the paint flow into the recesses.
Dry brush bone
Paint metals
Agrax earth shade

Done. 15 minutes a model.

I play Sisters of Battle... with vanilla Space Marine allies.

And when I was painting my Lizardmen, I did base colors, washed and drybrushed the raised scales of Saurus Warriors, painted the base a single color, applied flocking, and that was it. It took me more than 45 minutes per model. I know the time exactly because I put on an episode of Stargate SG-1 on DVD before starting each one, and it always took longer to finish the model than it did the episode to end.

Also, I'm not good at getting paint only where I want it. Going faster would make that much, much worse.

And pretty much every time I paint that I'm not unusually motivated to paint something special, I spend the whole time thinking about how much more fun it would be to just play some video games, or post on forums instead.

In all honesty painting is the one aspect of the hobby that I struggle with the most. I've had a few armies that have died out over the years because I couldn't motivate myself enough to paint them. Eventually they were sold off to fund the next project. I've gotten better over the last few years, and 2 of my 3 current armies are nearly fully painted, and my Eldar are getting there. I can't blame people for not painting, God knows I struggled with it a lot, even though I now prefer to have everything painted I would never say anything if someone has an unpainted army or models, because I remember being in that same position myself. My 2 cents

 Pouncey wrote:


I play Sisters of Battle... with vanilla Space Marine allies.

And when I was painting my Lizardmen, I did base colors, washed and drybrushed the raised scales of Saurus Warriors, painted the base a single color, applied flocking, and that was it. It took me more than 45 minutes per model. I know the time exactly because I put on an episode of Stargate SG-1 on DVD before starting each one, and it always took longer to finish the model than it did the episode to end.

Also, I'm not good at getting paint only where I want it. Going faster would make that much, much worse.

And pretty much every time I paint that I'm not unusually motivated to paint something special, I spend the whole time thinking about how much more fun it would be to just play some video games, or post on forums instead.

Try airbrushing and mirco pens. Airbrushes do wonders and micro pens make armour plates quick and easy.

The point Im making is that try different methods, most people are stuck in the hell that is block layering.

 Ravenous D wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:


I play Sisters of Battle... with vanilla Space Marine allies.

And when I was painting my Lizardmen, I did base colors, washed and drybrushed the raised scales of Saurus Warriors, painted the base a single color, applied flocking, and that was it. It took me more than 45 minutes per model. I know the time exactly because I put on an episode of Stargate SG-1 on DVD before starting each one, and it always took longer to finish the model than it did the episode to end.

Also, I'm not good at getting paint only where I want it. Going faster would make that much, much worse.

And pretty much every time I paint that I'm not unusually motivated to paint something special, I spend the whole time thinking about how much more fun it would be to just play some video games, or post on forums instead.

Try airbrushing and mirco pens. Airbrushes do wonders and micro pens make armour plates quick and easy.

The point Im making is that try different methods, most people are stuck in the hell that is block layering.

I'll keep that in mind, thanks.

I do recall looking into a hobby air compressor at one point, but it was for my GW spray gun shaped like a hand flamer, not an airbrush. I think I could only find ones intended for power tools, which were much too powerful and far too expensive for my liking.

Micropens sound up my alley though, if they're what my mind is imagining. Would probably prove useful for rivets and the edges of armor on my Sisters, especially that annoying row of spikes on their backpacks.

Iron_Captain wrote:

Whittlesey40k wrote:
I find it odd how many people get hung up on "you play the game, why not paint the minis", but no one seems to mind those who paint, but don't game. Why is one okay and not the other?

If you're arguing that it's prettier to see a painted army on the tabletop than a grey one, then it's also prettier to see a well painted army on a tabletop with scenery and another army, than just leaving it on a shelf.

I don't really give a feth. If you wanna paint, paint, if you don't, don't. Totally appreciate and respect a nice looking army, but also know that it's not everyone's cup of tea. Be a good opponent and everyone's going to have a good time.

If I have to play against unpainted miniatures it greatly lessens the fun and enjoyment of 40k. I know this is true for many other people as well. On the other hand, if someone collects, paints and doesn't play, no one is affected by that.

Let us compare 40k to a cake competition. The goal is for everyone to make a delicious cake, then everyone will eat from the cakes and judge wich one is the best. People who bring unpainted armies are like the people who just bring a cake bought in the supermarket to the competition. It takes away the fun of the competition for those people who put in a lot of effort to bake a cake themselves.

That's not really a good comparison though.... it would be a good comparison in a 40k PAINTING competition where someone shows up with commission painted models.

It's more like having a cake eating contest and people show up with cakes that don't have icing on them

Pouncey wrote:Actually, a person painting and not playing does affect their local gaming scene. It affects them by depriving them of a potential opponent. Although it's not really any different in that regard than choosing to game at a different location, or not being into tabletop gaming at all.

Yeah that's pretty abstract, that would be like saying the 7.124 billion people on earth who don't play wargames are depriving their local wargames communities In a horrible dystopian world where people are forced to game with the wargaming models they've painted I'm sure those people would simply swap to models that aren't wargaming models

Pouncey wrote:I play Sisters of Battle... with vanilla Space Marine allies.

And when I was painting my Lizardmen, I did base colors, washed and drybrushed the raised scales of Saurus Warriors, painted the base a single color, applied flocking, and that was it. It took me more than 45 minutes per model. I know the time exactly because I put on an episode of Stargate SG-1 on DVD before starting each one, and it always took longer to finish the model than it did the episode to end.

Also, I'm not good at getting paint only where I want it. Going faster would make that much, much worse.

And pretty much every time I paint that I'm not unusually motivated to paint something special, I spend the whole time thinking about how much more fun it would be to just play some video games, or post on forums instead.

What sized brushes were you using? One of the best methods for speeding up your painting is to simply use appropriately large brushes. Even though I own an airbrush, my speed painted models I don't use it for anything but the base coat (or not at all if I can do the base coat with a spray can, which is even faster than the airbrush).

But 45 minutes. It's actually not THAT bad if it includes assembly. For me to do a Saurus Warrior takes around 10 minutes to assemble, a couple of minutes to base coat, a couple of minutes for first wash, a couple of minutes for 2nd wash only on the scales, a few minutes to paint the base and flock it, then another 10 or so minutes to pick out the details (even if I only do basic details). So you're looking at about 30 minutes.

There's not too many models I can do from sprue to finished model in under 30 minutes. My Cadians take me just under 30 minutes, largely because I use the snap fit ones which are faster to assemble, if using the multipart ones it's just over 30 minutes.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
What sized brushes were you using? One of the best methods for speeding up your painting is to simply use appropriately large brushes. Even though I own an airbrush, my speed painted models I don't use it for anything but the base coat (or not at all if I can do the base coat with a spray can, which is even faster than the airbrush).

But 45 minutes. It's actually not THAT bad if it includes assembly. For me to do a Saurus Warrior takes around 10 minutes to assemble, a couple of minutes to base coat, a couple of minutes for first wash, a couple of minutes for 2nd wash only on the scales, a few minutes to paint the base and flock it, then another 10 or so minutes to pick out the details (even if I only do basic details). So you're looking at about 30 minutes.

There's not too many models I can do from sprue to finished model in under 30 minutes. My Cadians take me just under 30 minutes, largely because I use the snap fit ones which are faster to assemble, if using the multipart ones it's just over 30 minutes.

I used either a Large or Standard brush for painting the scales/skin, a Wash brush for the wash, and some sort of Drybrush for the drybrushing. I may also have used a Detail brush to do the eyes if I did them at all. Might've used a Detail brush for things as small as the metal tail cap, but I'm pretty sure I used a Standard brush for anything bigger than that.

They'd already been assembled and primed days before each 45 minute session started.

Oh, I forgot to mention that I painted, washed and drybrushed their shields a different color than their scales.

Also, I really have to learn to thin my paints...

Oh, and this kind of paintjob:

http://i.imgur.com/vz481VT.jpg

Took me at least 10 hours to do, just for the paint after the black primer coat. I spent that much time on it because it was a very special model for a birthday gift for a dear, dear friend. Assembly took another 4+ hours, including 2 hours of picking sprues out of my collection of spares that have parts I might want to use, then the rest of the time involved putting it together, realizing my first concept leaned WAY too far forward (the front tips of the first version's storm bolter probably could've reached to the model behind the model that is itself behind the model it was in base contact with, like, seriously, worse than Hormagaunts), taking it apart, having a think, then clearing my new idea with the recipient, then hacking things apart to make the thunder hammer and to make the device attaching the stormbolter to the backpack, then finally re-assembling it, but I enjoy building and converting models.

Nice looking model, but yeah, 10 hours is a long time to do it. I would have guessed 2 to 3 or maybe 4 hours for the paint job at most.

Some people just aren't as quick with their hands. I know I'm not tremendously fast because I've sat next to my sister packing envelopes for a charity thing and she could do them almost twice as fast as me. It wasn't the method or anything like that, she was just so much faster with her hands.

I don't think it's physically possible for me to paint a model in less than about 25 minutes (including assembly) unless I decide to ignore mould lines and just spray it and wash it ignoring all the details. Even then it probably only goes down to 15-20 minutes.

When people say they get a model table top ready in under 20 minutes I think they are either lying, haven't actually timed it to know, have *very* low standards or are freaks who are insanely fast with their hands.

Usually when I play with unpainted models it is to test them on the table top before devoting time to actually playing with them.

Also, Battlefront, Fallout 4, Halo just came out, I raid in WoW three nights a week, and work full time doing night security at an airport.

That, and every model, including scouts and other line troopers need to look good, so if my models are not painted, it is because they are being tested, in the queue, or are a drop pod.

Because feth drop pods, Amirite?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Nice looking model, but yeah, 10 hours is a long time to do it. I would have guessed 2 to 3 or maybe 4 hours for the paint job at most.

Some people just aren't as quick with their hands. I know I'm not tremendously fast because I've sat next to my sister packing envelopes for a charity thing and she could do them almost twice as fast as me. It wasn't the method or anything like that, she was just so much faster with her hands.

I don't think it's physically possible for me to paint a model in less than about 25 minutes (including assembly) unless I decide to ignore mould lines and just spray it and wash it ignoring all the details. Even then it probably only goes down to 15-20 minutes.

When people say they get a model table top ready in under 20 minutes I think they are either lying, haven't actually timed it to know, have *very* low standards or are freaks who are insanely fast with their hands.

That or they are only counting paint time, and not assembly time.

OP is clearly just trolling.

I paint all of my models, I like my army to have a colour theme throughout it to tie it together and I spend ages on the detailing to make it so.

However, I also possess common sense. Some people cannot paint, whether because of physiological reasons, or they don't want to ruin their models with their perceived lack of paintbrush skill. Or, they want to play the game and don't want to paint at all.

Just because I spend that time painting, does not mean I can force the same on someone else. Would I prefer two painted armies facing off to play into the narrative in my head? Yes.

But I also enjoy having a fun game and a good time. The only reason the concept of "3 colours and base" even exists is because GW need to upsell to shift more product (namely, their own paint range!).

How exactly, does the legion of Grey hurt you? Do you have a investment in citadel/vallejo/armypainter/Coat d'arms paints or something?

Izural wrote:
OP is clearly just trolling.

I paint all of my models, I like my army to have a colour theme throughout it to tie it together and I spend ages on the detailing to make it so.

However, I also possess common sense. Some people cannot paint, whether because of physiological reasons, or they don't want to ruin their models with their perceived lack of paintbrush skill. Or, they want to play the game and don't want to paint at all.

Just because I spend that time painting, does not mean I can force the same on someone else. Would I prefer two painted armies facing off to play into the narrative in my head? Yes.

But I also enjoy having a fun game and a good time. The only reason the concept of "3 colours and base" even exists is because GW need to upsell to shift more product (namely, their own paint range!).

How exactly, does the legion of Grey hurt you? Do you have a investment in citadel/vallejo/armypainter/Coat d'arms paints or something?

Exalted!

Izural wrote:
OP is clearly just trolling.

I paint all of my models, I like my army to have a colour theme throughout it to tie it together and I spend ages on the detailing to make it so.

However, I also possess common sense. Some people cannot paint, whether because of physiological reasons, or they don't want to ruin their models with their perceived lack of paintbrush skill. Or, they want to play the game and don't want to paint at all.

Just because I spend that time painting, does not mean I can force the same on someone else. Would I prefer two painted armies facing off to play into the narrative in my head? Yes.

But I also enjoy having a fun game and a good time. The only reason the concept of "3 colours and base" even exists is because GW need to upsell to shift more product (namely, their own paint range!).

How exactly, does the legion of Grey hurt you? Do you have a investment in citadel/vallejo/armypainter/Coat d'arms paints or something?

Exalted

I do admit I personally can say there is a stage worse than unpainted.
After assembly and basing comes the matt black prime.
NEVER leave it at that stage, neither you or your opponent can tell what weapons the little guys are using without impressive lighting.
Have some mercy and at least get a blob of color on the weapon.

I prefer fully painted for myself but stating anything more strongly does get "snobbery" thrown about.
I still have my first 40k painted models, yes they are a bit rough but keeping them around prevents that "snobbery" when I see where I was and where I am at.

I STRONGLY suggest just get painting, you would be missing an important element of the hobby that is rewarding for all involved.

Izural wrote:
How exactly, does the legion of Grey hurt you? Do you have a investment in citadel/vallejo/armypainter/Coat d'arms paints or something?

Because it ruins the aesthetic side of the game. And if we're not going to have nicely-painted models to appreciate then what's the point of playing such a terrible game?

Talizvar wrote:I STRONGLY suggest just get painting, you would be missing an important element of the hobby that is rewarding for all involved.

I've never found painting armies to be all that rewarding. I've always found painting individual models rewarding, armies are just a painful slog and by the time I get half way through I'm sick of the scheme I chose and my standard has improved to the point where I want to repaint everything.

Peregrine wrote:...then what's the point of playing such a terrible game?

Lots of reasons, don't be so narrow minded

Is this topic done now?

Untill the enxt time...