Codex: Adepta Sororitas, what do you want to see in it ? Be specific.
Anyone who brings up it's release being a hoax, or how Chaos Marines deserve a codex more, will be burned for heresy.
HQ Saint Celestine: Currently $20, likely to get a new Clampack figure for $35
Uriah Jacobus: I don't know if he'll make it to the new codex. I feel he made it into the digital dex because of his existing model.
Canoness: Pretty much an auto include in a new codex, and a likely Clampack Figure
Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave: Arco Flaggelants, Death Cult Assassin, and Crusader. I don't know how likely they are to make it in the new codex. They'd be too expensive as clam packs, and not a likely candidate for a plastic box set.
Ministorum Priest: I never realy got why theses robed dudes ran around with power armored sister, especially when the role could have been filled with a powered army female model with the same special rules.
Sororitas Command Squad : Celestines with a couple special bits for the Hospitaller and Dialogus
TROOPS
Battle Sister Squad: A plastic 10 model squad that covers BSS and Celestines seems like a no brainer
Fraternis Militia: Why not ? Chaos have their cultists, Orks have grots, GSC has neophytes. Sororitas could use some cheap objective holding bodies.
ELITES
Repentia Squad: There is literally nothing elite about them. At least give them uncany relfexes, like the death cult assassin. Be prepared for additional special rules that make them suck less and a 5 model $40 box set.
Celestian Squad: So you can jam more sisters into a CADD, with slightly better stats. Hoping they are in a $40 10 model box set that pulls double duty with they battle sisters squad.
FAST ATTACK
Serephim: As long as they are in plastic and not prone to falling over we'll be good. I expect them to have some formation that allows them to turn 1 DS and assault.
Dominion Squad: Really hoping for a Dominion/Retributor 5 model box with 4 of each special/heavy choice.
Flyer: They could recycle the Death Watch one, and include the obligitory Adepta Sororitas Upgrade Sprue
HEAVY SUPPORT
Exorcist: too cool not to make again
Penitent Engine: Make them MC's and 3 to box on 50mm bases
Retributor Squad: Really hoping for a Dominion/Retributor 5 model box with 4 of each special/heavy choice.
As far as new units go, I think that differentiating Celestians, Dominions, and Battle Sisters beyond just different weapon options would make them each feel a little more special.
Beyond that though, I feel the SoB don't really need new models so much as GW needs to explicitly lay-out their theme and give them a new "gimmick".
I mean faith as a mechanic was kinda gutted down to the point of just being Ecclesiarchy flavored Canticles/Marine Doctrines/etc rather than a core defining mechanic of the army. The Sisters also had nearly all of their unique wargear handed off to C:SM to the point that they are almost just Salamanders who can take flamer/melta in every slot.
They really need new mechanics and wargear to make them shine more than anything.
Tell ya what, I wouldn't kick a plastic Penitent Engine out of bed, that's for sure. Only thing stopping me from getting that model right now is that it's not plastic.
adamsouza wrote: Battle Sister Squad: A plastic 10 model squad that covers BSS and Celestines seems like a no brainer
I'm pretty sure we'll get that, but it'll be a 5-man box. It'll still cost as much as a 10-man box though.
Doesn't matter what you want, you'll get a super-undercosted vehicle with MC rules that you'd be forced to buy in droves (for 89.90 each) to be somewhat on par with others. That's just how it works.
koooaei wrote: Doesn't matter what you want, you'll get a super-undercosted vehicle with MC rules that you'd be forced to buy in droves (for 89.90 each) to be somewhat on par with others. That's just how it works.
As much as I want to believe this heralds Sisters coming, I won't be celebrating until the codex is literally in my hands. Not a moment before then.
That said, the things I'd like most are not much. I don't believe that Sisters need a great deal more of new models or unit types. What we do need are more options, namely for Canonesses (jump pack, please!) and Celestians.
koooaei wrote: Doesn't matter what you want, you'll get a super-undercosted vehicle with MC rules that you'd be forced to buy in droves (for 89.90 each) to be somewhat on par with others. That's just how it works.
adamsouza wrote: Battle Sister Squad: A plastic 10 model squad that covers BSS and Celestines seems like a no brainer
I'm pretty sure we'll get that, but it'll be a 5-man box. It'll still cost as much as a 10-man box though.
After seeing the GSC Acolyte/Metamorph box, I had the same thought. Since they are a power armored, I'm hoping they'll treat them like tactical marines.
RET CON All Sisters of Battle stuff and then watch the feminists lose their minds for a bit, then bring them back as an all male army and call it sissies of battle. Really just Ruin the game for all Social justice warriors
IN all seriousness I would just love to see more plastic models and updated rules, this is actually a good army that needs some TLC.
A few things I am hopeing they do is
1) Move Penitent Engines to Elites, SM dreadnoughts are, why are ours heavy support and....
2) Make Penitent Engines MC. If the GK Dreadknight MC, then they should be too.
3) Allow Celestians to equip like Vets. Can take 2-3 special and every one else can buy combis OR 2-3 power and everyone else CCW/BP. Right now they are just sisters with +1A and Ld, and a differnt AoF. That's not enough IMO to set them apart as elites. No reason to take them over a regualr squad.
Systemic roll-back to Acts of Faith. Bring back the army-wide pool of different Acts, not the mini-feats in the current book. It made the army feel unique and flexible on the tabletop in a way that's been slowly getting shaved away since.
Another tweak for Celestians that might be interesting is to give them all storm bolters, bolt pistols and chainswords. They're not that impressive in CC: even with Furious Charge and A2, they're still not as good as, say, Salamander Sternguard in CC (Sternies are I4 and have ATSKNF). But with storm bolters, they could fire a full volley of bolter fire, probably plus meltas/flamers, and then charge.
I'd second the option to swap the storm bolters for combis, too.
I want a Confessor to be a Customizable Character
Celestine to get EW (and keep her self rez)
Custom Living Saint??? (Would Be Cool)
Some new Relics
New Plastic Pentient Engines (and made into MCs)
Immolator to return
Exorcist to get a Plastic Remake
Jacobus to remain AWESOME (and get a new model)
Make Saint Celestine/Generic Living Saint like the one from Soulstorm. Greater Daemon of the Emperor. I want her to look like she actually could cut the head of a Daemon Prince instead of being stepped on. Especially with the Daemon Primarches coming the current model is extremely underwhelming considering shes pretty much an avatar of the Emperor.
Have Retributors or a new unit in either a mech or heavily armoured suit like a centurion. In fact I would really like to see Dominion, Celestian and Retributors all made distinct from just being veteran sister or sisters with MOAR guns.
Have legionary type squads where EVERY sister can take a flamer, storm bolter or meltagun.
Close combat seraphim with spears or swords. Or better still. Have Seraphim weapons be in-built into their gauntlets so they can still use close combat weapons.
Give Celestians either access to more powerful guns or access to close combat weapons. Swords, spears, flamer gauntlets, shields.
Keep the current armor design. Don't degrade their armor to 4+. Just no.
Some sort of insane armywide faith mechanic where the army gets better as it loses units. On a level that I dunno, final turn they get a normal save AND their invulnerable.
Penitent engines and repentia to be brought closer to the Sisters of Battle aesthetic and away from the creepy steampunk Witch Hunters stuff. Even a fallen angel is still an angel.
Some sort of heavier battle mech that the sisters use. More shooty instead of the penitent engine.
Some sort of elite artificer armored unit where they are sort of demi living saints.
Bigger version of the Immolator with more armor and carrying capacity.
....Bikes. As well as the option for a Canoness to take said bike or a jump pack.
In fairness I think the last rumor we had implied that it was going to be relatively basic. A few clampack characters and plastics for all the basic stuff. Although there was supposed to be a unit on big bases.
Also, I do think sadly that they are going to be £25 for 5 models. I was convinced they would never do that. But, after the Genestealer Hybrids I think they will make them a similar "mid price" multi kit unit with lots of weapon options; which also comes in squads of 20 and is dirt cheap points wise. This would be a real shame and I hope they literally look like they've stepped out of the artwork to justify that price tag.
AnomanderRake wrote: Systemic roll-back to Acts of Faith. Bring back the army-wide pool of different Acts, not the mini-feats in the current book. It made the army feel unique and flexible on the tabletop in a way that's been slowly getting shaved away since.
I full agree. Make it the D6 per turn. Have a Canoness add D6 so would make it her worth taking over the named. Maybe bring back the Palatine (minor canoness from 3rd Ed) that adds D3.
Make Saint Celestine/Generic Living Saint like the one from Soulstorm. Greater Daemon of the Emperor. I want her to look like she actually could cut the head of a Daemon Prince instead of being stepped on. Especially with the Daemon Primarches coming the current model is extremely underwhelming considering shes pretty much an avatar of the Emperor.
I think she looks fine size wise, but she does need wither EW or can always get back up
Have Retributors or a new unit in either a mech or heavily armoured suit like a centurion. In fact I would really like to see Dominion, Celestian and Retributors all made distinct from just being veteran sister or sisters with MOAR guns.
No to mechs IMO, too many right now, no need for every faction to have them
Have legionary type squads where EVERY sister can take a flamer, storm bolter or meltagun.
Could do this with Celestians, but everyone with a special is just an uber Dominon squad, and we already got them
Close combat seraphim with spears or swords. Or better still. Have Seraphim weapons be in-built into their gauntlets so they can still use close combat weapons.
Not a bad idea, but seraphin have always been dual BP, they were the original gunslingers AFAIK back to 3rd WitchHunters
Give Celestians either access to more powerful guns or access to close combat weapons. Swords, spears, flamer gauntlets, shields.
I agree that they need something to make them worth wanting. Let everyone take a power or special like SM veterans
Keep the current armor design. Don't degrade their armor to 4+. Just no.
ABSOLUTLY ESSENTIAL that they keep their power armor 3+ and SoF 6+
Some sort of heavier battle mech that the sisters use. More shooty instead of the penitent engine.
A shooting PE would not be too bad. Maybe just give the PE the option to upgrade their HF to HB or MM?
....Bikes. As well as the option for a Canoness to take said bike or a jump pack..
C'mon guys. I've only been playing for about 4 years now, and I think there's been a 'credible' plastic sisters rumor like 6 times in that period. Like curran12, I'll believe that plastic sisters are inbound when they are on store shelves, and not a moment before.
Because basing your expectations on a one-line joke (a pretty funny one, at that) in a 2 minute joke video is just setting yourselves up for failure.
Our friendly librarian from DoW, Isador, said it best: "Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
TBH I am not sure if Saint Celestine will be getting a new model. GW has generally speaking been avoiding clam packs for individual special characters. Kharn was a huge exception to the rule of the past few years and he wasn't really presented as a normal clampack model. They seem to generally prefer either to not do them, as was the case for Deathwatch and Cultists; or find excuses to make them bigger kits like Santa.
I mean the last rumor was for three clampacks. So at a guess...
Canoness
Priest
Hospitaller
Which would imply shes either being dropped, going to get released later on, or possibly will keep her old model. A good comparison would be Vect. He was dropped because he didn't have a current model that fit the new design and will also probably get released later at some point.
I think if they made her just a pinch bigger than Alarielle (less beetle) and added loads of energy stuff swirling around her that would probably be enough. She wouldn't have to be quite as a big as in Soulstorm.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kap'n Krump wrote: C'mon guys. I've only been playing for about 4 years now, and I think there's been a 'credible' plastic sisters rumor like 6 times in that period. Like curran12, I'll believe that plastic sisters are inbound when they are on store shelves, and not a moment before.
Because basing your expectations on a one-line joke (a pretty funny one, at that) in a 2 minute joke video is just setting yourselves up for failure.
Our friendly librarian from DoW, Isador, said it best: "Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
Atia seems to think they are getting released and I can't recall her ever being wrong before; so...
It might be a joke but the purpose seems to have been to build hype and end on a shock reveal. That seems too deliberate to be a joke.
I would guess they will do an army wide AOF system like Power From Pain - Emperor protect us from a random chart though.......
A Nagash / AOS style giant Living Saint Model would be something I would love - I quite like her being relatively small but loads of bits and pieces floating around her would be ace. We already have Cherubs holding her wings.....
A Close Combat with blades and one shot flamers would be fun
Artificer armour option for Canoness + auto Rosarius
A scenery piece / Superheavy would be awesome if unlikely as the moving fortress shrine models pictured before and mentioned again in Shield of Baal!
Anyone who brings up it's release being a hoax, or how Chaos Marines deserve a codex more, will be burned for heresy.
CSM will get it's 'dex as always with the new edition,
They don't get codex in every edition and they don't get them in any specific time frame(early or late) so hard to predict there. Appropriately release schedule of chaos codex is very much unpredictable.
Melissia wrote: Yeah Sisters aren't coming, and I'll continue to refuse to believe they're coming until I hold the new miniatures and codex in my hands.
Of course, they might just give us yet another bland boring reprint instead of a real codex. THAT I can believe.
Melissia wrote: Yeah Sisters aren't coming, and I'll continue to refuse to believe they're coming until I hold the new miniatures and codex in my hands.
Of course, they might just give us yet another bland boring reprint instead of a real codex. THAT I can believe.
Self-denial is strong in this one.
It's not self-denial. It's realism.
We've been waiting since fething second edition to get a new range of minis. The largest our mini range ever was was in third edition. We actually currently have less variety in our miniature range than we had in second.
Simply put, until there's actual tangible evidence, rather htan baseless rumors and in-jokes amongst the GW staff, there's literally no reason to believe the update's going to happen. we've had well over a decade of people pushing rumors that turned out to have no basis in reality. There's no reason to think this one is any different yet.
Arguing whether the rumours are true are ultimately irrelevant to the topic at hand. We've all seen the same video, some of us see reason to hope, others don't, and the only thing that will change anybody's mind will show up in the News and Rumours board instead of this one.
This is a wishlist thread. A place for hopes and dreams.
That said, the rumours rumours suggest there will be a walker/monstrous creature sized kit which seems most likely to be the penitent engine, which means the 3x50mm unit is still up in the air...
Personally I wouldn't mind sororitas in centurion armour...
Melissia wrote: Yeah Sisters aren't coming, and I'll continue to refuse to believe they're coming until I hold the new miniatures and codex in my hands.
Of course, they might just give us yet another bland boring reprint instead of a real codex. THAT I can believe.
Self-denial is strong in this one.
It's not self-denial. It's realism.
We've been waiting since fething second edition to get a new range of minis. The largest our mini range ever was was in third edition. We actually currently have less variety in our miniature range than we had in second.
Simply put, until there's actual tangible evidence, rather htan baseless rumors and in-jokes amongst the GW staff, there's literally no reason to believe the update's going to happen. we've had well over a decade of people pushing rumors that turned out to have no basis in reality. There's no reason to think this one is any different yet.
Yeah we just have person with pretty much 100% accuracy(don't dare to put 100% claim but I don't know any false statement...White dwarf has bigger mistake ratio!) with statements what is coming confirming along with GW themselves.
What I really want is not an Adepta Sororitas Codex, but an Ecclesiachy Codex. That will make it more "Army of the Imperial Cult" an less "Female Spess Mehereens"
In particular what I really want is:
-Celestian can equip melee weapon
-A tank comparable with the Predator and the Leman Russ
-A flyer transport (the Aquila Lander would be PERFECT!)
-Frateris Militia
-Cheaper Repentia, so they can do their kamikaze job without problems
-An Exorcist miniature that combine the grimdarkness of the GW one with the realism of the FW one.
-Generic Living Saint (with a kit similar to the Celestant-Prime of AoS)
-Arch-flagellant as Elite and not QG
Kap'n Krump wrote: C'mon guys. I've only been playing for about 4 years now, and I think there's been a 'credible' plastic sisters rumor like 6 times in that period. Like curran12, I'll believe that plastic sisters are inbound when they are on store shelves, and not a moment before.
Because basing your expectations on a one-line joke (a pretty funny one, at that) in a 2 minute joke video is just setting yourselves up for failure.
Our friendly librarian from DoW, Isador, said it best: "Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
I know, but still hard not to perk up and wish everytime we hear them. I have been playing SoB, then Witchhunters, since the end of 4th, and there have been multiple rumors over the years about them doing plastic. I will continue to "Plan for the worst, but hope for the best"
-An Exorcist miniature that combine the grimdarkness of the GW one with the realism of the FW one.
What's unrealistic about launching salvoes of missiles from a pipe-organ? I already have 3 of them so I am set even if they do make a new one. Would have to be super-awsome to make me replace them.
*edit* If we get a proper codex, can you imagine what kinda of formations we'll get for excorcists?
Ezr91aeL wrote: What I really want is not an Adepta Sororitas Codex, but an Ecclesiachy Codex. That will make it more "Army of the Imperial Cult" an less "Female Spess Mehereens"
In particular what I really want is:
-Celestian can equip melee weapon
-A tank comparable with the Predator and the Leman Russ
-A flyer transport (the Aquila Lander would be PERFECT!)
-Frateris Militia
-Cheaper Repentia, so they can do their kamikaze job without problems
-An Exorcist miniature that combine the grimdarkness of the GW one with the realism of the FW one.
-Generic Living Saint (with a kit similar to the Celestant-Prime of AoS)
-Arch-flagellant as Elite and not QG
See I am the exact opposite. I feel there's already lots of armies with zealots in rags. Chaos cultists, Genestealers cults etc Then you also have all the crazy steampunk stuff in admech and skitari. So I just would not care for them adding Fraetaris. The appeal for me is that they are an army of female Paladins in power armor and detracting from that theme just isn't worth it. Plus, lore wise they really aren't supposed to have any men under arms, random angry mobs and ancient torture engines are really just exceptions and loopholes. The churches standing army is the Sisters so any Codex Ecclesiarchy should be almost entirely about them.
I'm going to be waiting until I see an actual damn release before I get excited.
As for a wishlist, to try to stay on topic? I don't know if it's even functional any more, but I had a full on 5th edition fandex full of ideas out there in a couple places on the interwebs.
Variations on Exorcist ammunition for example, a flier transport, acts of faith that are more similar to the third edition codex, and so on.
There's actually a pretty nice 7e fandex on 1d4chan that I can't find any serious flaws with. It's strong, though not excessively so, it has interesting options including a few new models (which, conveniently, have third-party models or straightforward kitbashes available), and it has everything you'd expect for a modern codex. They even added two different kinds of AA (a flyer and an AA tank, plus the existing Forge World options, but of those, they say "See Forge World"), an assault transport and the ability for the Canoness to be useful.
The only thing I thought was a little OP was the changes to the Repressor, and even that is not game-breakingly OP, just "moderately too strong for its points" OP. (Ravenwing Black Knights, not Wraithknights). But, 85 points for a 13/11/10 3HP/6++ assault transport (capacity 10) with a heavy flamer and storm bolter, that can exchange the heavy flamer for any Sisters heavy weapon and the storm bolter for any Sisters special weapon , while still having two top fire points and three on each side, is quite undercosted. That's more like 110 or so: it's definitely in the same tier as the Wave Serpent or Ghost Ark. (Especially since, as a Dedicated Transport, there is a unit that can give it Scout, which is always powerful on transports)
Melissia wrote: Yeah Sisters aren't coming, and I'll continue to refuse to believe they're coming until I hold the new miniatures and codex in my hands.
Of course, they might just give us yet another bland boring reprint instead of a real codex. THAT I can believe.
Self-denial is strong in this one.
It's not self-denial. It's realism.
We've been waiting since fething second edition to get a new range of minis. The largest our mini range ever was was in third edition. We actually currently have less variety in our miniature range than we had in second.
Simply put, until there's actual tangible evidence, rather htan baseless rumors and in-jokes amongst the GW staff, there's literally no reason to believe the update's going to happen. we've had well over a decade of people pushing rumors that turned out to have no basis in reality. There's no reason to think this one is any different yet.
Yeah we just have person with pretty much 100% accuracy(don't dare to put 100% claim but I don't know any false statement...White dwarf has bigger mistake ratio!) with statements what is coming confirming along with GW themselves.
It's not realism. Just denial.
Im going to go with this being credible, this video is the first of its kind and it is a totally NEW direction for GW in how they market their materials. A complete 180 from their previous secrecy, and you can see it in the new white dwarf as well. I cannot in any way see them making that as a "joke" when the whole purpose of the video was to show you models in production.
That aside, I want to see a new transport vehicle that "replaces" the repressor but keeps its general style (i.e. a gothic tank with a huge ram) and something like the melta ram on the mastadon on it. I want to also see them get Infernus Pattern Predators or at least get some use out of the melta cannons from Devil Dogs (why do guard only have that?)
Lady Atia herself has said it is true. I mean if you don't believe that when she has predicted basically all of this stuff then your one stubborn person.
If this is true, I plan on buying $10 per week of store credit to save for buying some Sisters, plus a percent of what I earn for painting. It's so exciting to see rumors of new plastics.
It's obvious to me GW is doing these pre announcements now so that you can plan a lot more. This lines up with rumors from before how they were moving in a direction where you would have more time to plan your orders for the year. Well announcing Sisters of Battle 6 months out counts to me.
Thanks GW. I hope they keep it up with all their releases and let us know whats coming.
When it comes to models, I'd want to see a Flier (Corvus Blackstar would be great), a plastic 10-sisters box with a variety of special and heavy weapons (can make most squads with this), Plastic Seraphim box, Plastic Repentia, and plastic Penitent Engines. That would be 3 new infantry kits and one larger kit.
As for rules:
1. drop the average sister by one point, make special and heavy weapons cheaper.
2. Penitent Engines to Elites.
3. Add the Corvus Blackstar as a Heavy choice.
4. Acts of faith become not only useful, but flavorful again.
5. Actually find a use for Repentia. Perhaps let them be infiltrators and have FNP?
I have this feeling that the average sister without acts of faith should edge-out guardsmen. A Sister with Acts should rival a Space Marine (for a lower points cost).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Does anyone else remember the "Special" Last Chancers rules from 3rd edition?
One of the Characters (Hero) had a rule that allowed him to live for one turn after he died due to his hard-core determination. In this turn he could not be killed or harmed in any way. I wonder if such a rule would work (because of faith) for the Sisters? Maybe not as an army-wide special rule, but maybe just for Repentia and a once-per-game special ability for a character.
cuda1179 wrote: When it comes to models, I'd want to see a Flier (Corvus Blackstar would be great), a plastic 10-sisters box with a variety of special and heavy weapons (can make most squads with this), Plastic Seraphim box, Plastic Repentia, and plastic Penitent Engines. That would be 3 new infantry kits and one larger kit.
As for rules:
1. drop the average sister by one point, make special and heavy weapons cheaper.
2. Penitent Engines to Elites.
3. Add the Corvus Blackstar as a Heavy choice.
4. Acts of faith become not only useful, but flavorful again.
5. Actually find a use for Repentia. Perhaps let them be infiltrators and have FNP?
I have this feeling that the average sister without acts of faith should edge-out guardsmen. A Sister with Acts should rival a Space Marine (for a lower points cost).
Automatically Appended Next Post: Does anyone else remember the "Special" Last Chancers rules from 3rd edition?
One of the Characters (Hero) had a rule that allowed him to live for one turn after he died due to his hard-core determination. In this turn he could not be killed or harmed in any way. I wonder if such a rule would work (because of faith) for the Sisters? Maybe not as an army-wide special rule, but maybe just for Repentia and a once-per-game special ability for a character.
I am curious on why you would want a corvus over the Aquila lander. I'm sorry, but I don't see a bunch of sisters riding in an ordo xenos transport when you can fly around in the most blatant symbol of the empirium.
A friend of mine who works at a GW in England told me something about some 2015 thing where redesigns were mentioned. Super vague, I know, and don't take my word for it.
But if so, they have the potential to become my absolute favourite army. If not, they will continue to be something I will not buy.
I'm pretty confident SoB are really happening. I do tend to believe it will be one of the more "mini" sized codices, thus I don't believe we'll see more than one or two new units.
There are a lot of obvious things I want to see that will happen just because they're being done... like plastic penitent engines.
Less obviously I want to see more distinctively SoB vehicles that account for how they fight... they should have a vehicle that can hold their larger sized squads.
To be honest I dont see that there would be a major need for a bunch of new units. Just having new models will promote a lot of sales, plus the new sprues could be used to add a few new options.
I see the result more like Grey Knights or Deathwatch, just enough in each slot to give a little choice, which the Sisters already have. Alliances with Inquisition and Astra Militarium cover most everything else we might expect in a Sisters army. Maybe something like Genestealers where a few AM units are copied directly over.
So yeah, plastic kits, new options, but probably not new, never before seen units.
I really enjoyed the link with Witch Hunters. I'd love seeing a return to the weird and unique forces of the Inquisition.
Inquisitors (+lords), Assassins, retinues, Stormtroopers, Land Raiders, and esoteric miscellany.
Sisters of battle units should still form the core, and it should be possible to build a powerful list from just these units. However I need my =][= fix!
I know this can be achieved through allies, but I'd love a gothic and unusual army rather than pure Sororitas.
I'd also like to see sisters get a plastic Avenger Strike Fighter. Its got the fluff to back it up, its an insanely cool looking and fun to play with flyer and its just the kind of oomph the sisters need to really have some fun. plus theres lots of other imperial armies who would love to play with it and would instantly sell out if they ever bothered
CadianXV wrote: I'm probably going to be reviled for this but...
I really enjoyed the link with Witch Hunters. I'd love seeing a return to the weird and unique forces of the Inquisition.
Inquisitors (+lords), Assassins, retinues, Stormtroopers, Land Raiders, and esoteric miscellany.
Sisters of battle units should still form the core, and it should be possible to build a powerful list from just these units. However I need my =][= fix!
I know this can be achieved through allies, but I'd love a gothic and unusual army rather than pure Sororitas.
Not reviled. I just don't think GW will revisit any of the inquisition until they're ready to revisit all of it. I think GW's mindset is that SoB should and can stand on their own and that everything else should just be incorporated as allies.
CadianXV wrote: I'm probably going to be reviled for this but...
I really enjoyed the link with Witch Hunters. I'd love seeing a return to the weird and unique forces of the Inquisition.
Inquisitors (+lords), Assassins, retinues, Stormtroopers, Land Raiders, and esoteric miscellany.
Sisters of battle units should still form the core, and it should be possible to build a powerful list from just these units. However I need my =][= fix!
I know this can be achieved through allies, but I'd love a gothic and unusual army rather than pure Sororitas.
Nope, I'm with you 100%. While it makes far more sense fluff-wise to go this route, from a "sell crap tons of mini-codices and models" it's better for GW to make every single whisper of fluff into its own full army. Back in 2nd edition they had fully intended to release "Imperial Agents" as a codex. In White Dwarf and some of the early codices they said flatly "...and you'll see this option when Imperial Agents is released..." etc. Obviously this never happened.
Players would get sooo much more bang for their buck with an Imperial Agents style codex. An Inquisitor leading a small retinue, a large contingent of Sisters of Battle assisting with the occasional assassin and Grey Knight squad (they should have never become their own army). It would be far more fluffy and look much cooler on the table.
I have no vested interest in Sisters of Battle (they're pretty cool, but I'm not a collector of them). I would be sad to see the classic Sisters of Battle themes perverted into completely new and ridiculous things as we're seeing with other armies. I'm afraid you'll see some huge new walker, a completely new line of tank, or sisters in terminator armour etc.
I don't want to see any Inquisition stuff. Inquisition has their own Codex now that's specifically designed to be incorporated into all Imperial armies, there's no reason to have Witch Hunter stuff in the Sisters of Battle Codex and it would actually be harmful when new Inquisition or Sisters of Battle updates are issued and the units in each are not the same anymore.
I want the models to have a significant amount of boobs, hips and butt. Not because I want to perv out on them. If I wanted to perv out on Sisters of Battle, I do have access to a lot of WH40k pornography and Sisters of Battle are a very common subject in WH40k porn. No, I want those exaggerated secondary sexual characteristics because they're female. "But Pouncey, they can be just as female if their armor were gender-neutral!" Frankly, no they can't. Humans need those characteristics to be present to identify a humanoid character as female. My proof? My proof consists of almost every non-human species in fiction and reality.
I'll explain.
When humans create a non-human humanoid species in fiction, such as elves, orcs, aliens, etc. we almost always give their females human-like secondary sexual characteristics. They almost always have boobs, wide hips, a large posterior, and a face reminiscent of human women. We make their men equally human-like in their appearance. So what's the big deal with that? Real life. Terrestrial animals don't tend to have human secondary sexual characteristics. Even most mammals don't have large breasts on their females. Their mammaries are almost flat. The reason human women have enlarged breasts and a large butt is a result of runaway sexual selection that is very unique and specific to humans. The idea that a species unrelated to humans developed similar characteristics is almost ridiculous in how unlikely it is. Yet almost every time we create a humanoid alien species in sci-fi, science fantasy, or fantasy, their women have enlarged breasts like humans do. This is true even for alien species that don't feed their young with milk and shouldn't even have any sort of milk gland to begin with. Think of all the alien humanoids in Star Trek and Star Wars which have women with breasts.
The conclusion is inevitable. To view a humanoid woman as female, human secondary sexual characteristics must be noticeable. Sisters of Battle are women, and they are the most human kind of humanoid. Their secondary sexual characteristics should be noticeable, and since they wear plate armor, they need boob armor.
If some of the current rumors are true, it's possible we will see in the next edition a 'Grand Alliance' book consisting of the forces of the Imprium including lists of Sisters, all flavours of loyalist Marines, the Guard, the Inquisition, Mechannum, Knights, etc.
If this is the case, there is little sense in trying to fill 'gaps' in the Sisters as they will have easy access to allies that can take care of it for them.
Jefffar wrote: If some of the current rumors are true, it's possible we will see in the next edition a 'Grand Alliance' book consisting of the forces of the Imprium including lists of Sisters, all flavours of loyalist Marines, the Guard, the Inquisition, Mechannum, Knights, etc..
Couple of brand new models would be awesome but what I really want are formations and stat changes.
First increase int or WS by 1 across the board on everyone but celestine.
Drop Cannoness down to 40 pts or give her a butt-ton of buffing abilities. She's the same price as a libby for christ sake.
Increase Celestine by 15 points give her EW, bolt pistol, AP2.
5 point per unit drop of every other unit and vehicle.
Formations that A) Increase Melta weapons range 6" B) give flamer's Torrent C) Increase the power of AOFs.
Decurion makes all weapon upgrades free and adds +2 S to all template weapons and makes all melta weapons with the Heavy type salvo 1/3. Throw on obsec for flavor.
Exorcists on squads of 3 get D6+3 shots instead of just D6.
ERJAK wrote: Couple of brand new models would be awesome but what I really want are formations and stat changes.
First increase int or WS by 1 across the board on everyone but celestine.
Drop Cannoness down to 40 pts or give her a butt-ton of buffing abilities. She's the same price as a libby for christ sake.
Increase Celestine by 15 points give her EW, bolt pistol, AP2.
5 point per unit drop of every other unit and vehicle.
Formations that A) Increase Melta weapons range 6" B) give flamer's Torrent C) Increase the power of AOFs.
Decurion makes all weapon upgrades free and adds +2 S to all template weapons and makes all melta weapons with the Heavy type salvo 1/3. Throw on obsec for flavor.
Exorcists on squads of 3 get D6+3 shots instead of just D6.
Celestine, a Living Saint... doesn't have Eternal Warrior? The feth? She's the living manifestation of the Emperor's Wrath, and she gets one-shotted by a Krak Grenade?
I feel like the last codex was pretty close to what I was looking for, in a lot of ways. I think the Faith rules are goofy because not every loadout of weapons can make use of some of them. The Witch Hunters Acts were pretty awesome, except for the roll over/under unit size confusion. I'd like to see them keep Adamantium Will and the small Invulnerable Save at base, and I could see some sort of accumulation of rules like Dark Eldar or Mechanicus, based on miracles offsetting overwhelming odds- kind of keep the Faith through Martyrdom idea going. I'd like to see them with some really interesting Relics and a good assortment of Wargear that reflects the fact that they are supposed to be very well equipped by the Ecclesiarchy. Artificer Armour, Master Crafted Weapons and the like. Land Raider option, Blackstar or another Assault vehicle would be really cool.
I really would like to see Canoness characters that have more options, maybe Build Your Own Living Saint rules, and make Celestians actually dangerous in a meaningful way- either cheap, effective Wargear like Vanguard Vets, or an increased Invulnerable Save, or both. Penitent Engines need to become Monstrous Creatures or get a decent points drop. Repentia and probably the Exorcist are in need of new models.
I do like the freakshow aspect of the Ecclesiarchy myself so go with that, but I want my Sisters to be resolute guardians of the Faith. I could definitely use less creepy old men in the army and more Special Characters that are actually Sisters. I would really like Celestians to be better at Assault like they once were, an Initiative boost would help a lot and they did have that at one time. TRepentia done Lone Wolf style could be really interesting actually.
As far as models go I want them to be very close to the old aesthetic but with more customizability. A clam pack Saint or Canoness would be lovely. I'd like to see some sort of mobile Shrine type vehicle (good place for an Assault Vehicle actually). I don't really care about Frateris although a mob of raving lunatics is always a fun time. I don't need a Monster or Flyer personally, but I would like to be able to kill them with fire.
Considering we've now got confirmation about plastic Sisters of Silence up in the news and rumours group, I think that lends an even stronger case. It seems GW has finally gotten over its "eww girls" in plastic mentality. Personally, I have this sneaking suspicion that when the Sisters dex hits, it's going to be followed up by a SoS mini dex, similar to the Scions dex. Quite possibly having them working together in some way, both having an especially large hatred of psykers.
Anything that removes the perception of SoB as female marines is a positive addition, anything included just because marines... is a negative one. I think the Corvus blackstar could arguably be the exception as it is arguably inquisition related. I would rather see a unique SoB vehicle than a Land Raider.
Most armies have a singular aesthetic, SoB are kinda split between two. I would like to see something that ties the proper SoB back to the cruder imperial aesthetic as opposed to just seeing those elements as separate and distinct to certain units.
I wouldn't mind the SoB having bikes as long as they aren't identical to the marine bikes. Last thing we need is more reason to think of the Sororitas as just the Boob Marines. Maybe they could come equipped with TL Multimeltas instead of TL Boltguns and have the option of equipping the rider with a Heavy Flamer. That would fit the SoB theme of BURN THE HERETICS!!!
aka_mythos wrote: Anything that removes the perception of SoB as female marines is a positive addition, anything included just because marines... is a negative one. I think the Corvus blackstar could arguably be the exception as it is arguably inquisition related. I would rather see a unique SoB vehicle than a Land Raider.
Most armies have a singular aesthetic, SoB are kinda split between two. I would like to see something that ties the proper SoB back to the cruder imperial aesthetic as opposed to just seeing those elements as separate and distinct to certain units.
I agree with you. I'd like to see powerback with flames on the exausts, lots of purity seals, lots of arch-flagellants, tanks that look like a church (in the way the Dark Talon of the Dark Angels does), but not: I would not like to see a Corvus Blackstar. It's described as the most advanced flyer disponible only for little elite like the Deathwatch. Sororitas on other hand are more numerous than Space Marine...
I wouldn't mind the SoB having bikes as long as they aren't identical to the marine bikes. Last thing we need is more reason to think of the Sororitas as just the Boob Marines. Maybe they could come equipped with TL Multimeltas instead of TL Boltguns and have the option of equipping the rider with a Heavy Flamer. That would fit the SoB theme of BURN THE HERETICS!!!
I think the bikes would have to be vastly different and not have mounted weapons in order to not get criticised that they are Boob marines.
I agree with you. I'd like to see powerback with flames on the exausts, lots of purity seals, lots of arch-flagellants, tanks that look like a church (in the way the Dark Talon of the Dark Angels does), but not: I would not like to see a Corvus Blackstar. It's described as the most advanced flyer disponible only for little elite like the Deathwatch. Sororitas on other hand are more numerous than Space Marine...
While I would prefer them getting their own semi unique flyer, what would you say about them getting access to the Stormraven or varient of? Would give the benifit of existing model, and already allows jump infanty (Serephine). Allow HF for front guns and MM for turrent. Can carry a PE in place of a dread?
I wouldn't mind the SoB having bikes as long as they aren't identical to the marine bikes. Last thing we need is more reason to think of the Sororitas as just the Boob Marines. Maybe they could come equipped with TL Multimeltas instead of TL Boltguns and have the option of equipping the rider with a Heavy Flamer. That would fit the SoB theme of BURN THE HERETICS!!!
I think the bikes would have to be vastly different and not have mounted weapons in order to not get criticised that they are Boob marines.
S.Y.
I'd prefer to stay away from bikes as I do not see a good way of doing them that would not make them feel like "boob marines"
ERJAK wrote: Couple of brand new models would be awesome but what I really want are formations and stat changes.
Gonna be contrary to that, but if it's a choice between the two I want new models. Sisters being metal is crippling their market potential.
ERJAK wrote: First increase int or WS by 1 across the board on everyone but celestine.
Why? Sisters are built on the statline of human beings, the fact that they have BS4 is supposed to be superhumanly amazing. Better to have their points cost reflect their stats being lower than those of space marines (and keep them as good as space marines in the stats that matter, like BS and armour save)
ERJAK wrote: Formations that A) Increase Melta weapons range 6" B) give flamer's Torrent C) Increase the power of AOFs.
Yes.
ERJAK wrote: Decurion makes all weapon upgrades free and adds +2 S to all template weapons and makes all melta weapons with the Heavy type salvo 1/3. Throw on obsec for flavor.
That is bonkers. The Gladius is anomalously strong, it's not the baseline of decrurion formations.
I wouldn't mind the SoB having bikes as long as they aren't identical to the marine bikes. Last thing we need is more reason to think of the Sororitas as just the Boob Marines. Maybe they could come equipped with TL Multimeltas instead of TL Boltguns and have the option of equipping the rider with a Heavy Flamer. That would fit the SoB theme of BURN THE HERETICS!!!
A speedy, relentless multi-melta platform had better be fething expensive, it's definitely going to supplant Retributors entirely, probably Immolators too. Better to make the heavy flamer the default weapon and the MM a more expensive upgrade,ir better yet, make the base unit bolters or even CC oriented.
Maybe make the bikes count as Cavalry instead of Bikes to represent their decreased ruggedness but increased nimbleness, then have the default wargear be bolt pistol/chainsword, with the option for a few (maybe all?) to take items from the melee or ranged weapon lists?
I don't like the idea of Sororitas on bikes. They are not in their stile. If they should go fast I think they prefear to appear as angels of the Emperor and get a jumpack.
It's been said before but the inclusion of the Sisters of Silence in the SoB book would be a big departure from the fiction.
Ezr91aeL wrote: I don't like the idea of Sororitas on bikes. They are not in their stile. If they should go fast I think they prefear to appear as angels of the Emperor and get a jumpack.
I know what you mean. Space Marines present themselves with this unattainable level of technology but SoB have a certain theatricality to how they present themselves to the average citizen. More than marines they're pushing a religious agenda and depicting themselves as divine representatives is part of that. I think IF the SoB were to incorporate a bike like unit it would have to be consistent with that imagery as agents of a divine emperor. That said I could imagine something in the vein of mythological Valkyrie riding winged steeds... whether those are something robotic or cybernetically enhanced steeds they would present a consistent theme and give them a bike or jet bike type unit.
Mobs of fanatics with kits that could easily be also used for genestealer cultists, penal battalions/conscripts and chaos cultists. Many birds killed with one stone.
if this "sisters are coming" is based on the 5 sisters of silence - which are not SoB in the 30k starter you should start betting on a custodes codex coming out as that also has 5 models but they are actually from the custodes faction unlike the sisters of silence.
jade_angel wrote: Maybe make the bikes count as Cavalry instead of Bikes to represent their decreased ruggedness but increased nimbleness, then have the default wargear be bolt pistol/chainsword, with the option for a few (maybe all?) to take items from the melee or ranged weapon lists?
Why have bikes that count as cavalry when you can have cavalry? They could be riding cyborg horses with flaming power maul torches...
jade_angel wrote: Maybe make the bikes count as Cavalry instead of Bikes to represent their decreased ruggedness but increased nimbleness, then have the default wargear be bolt pistol/chainsword, with the option for a few (maybe all?) to take items from the melee or ranged weapon lists?
Why have bikes that count as cavalry when you can have cavalry? They could be riding cyborg horses with flaming power maul torches...
Nomeny wrote: I think it would be great if the miniatures were re-done to be less...Blanche. More power-armour, less bondage-nun, you know?
The models are less Blanche than that famous picture with a high-heeled Sister leading a battle. For one none of them have high heels, and they're not exactly bondage nuns either (IMO). The so-called corsets are just decoration over the armor, whatever such a thing was called.
I don't think so, though I wouldn't be *totally* shocked if the 40k rules for the Sisters of Silence wind up being something that allows them to be used as a "Faction: Adepta Sororitas" unit.
There are, however, *two* releases here: SoS, confirmed, and SoB, hinted. Probably there will be some link, but right now there's no direct hint of that.
Future War Cultist wrote: Wait, I'm confused. Are the sisters of silence being wrapped up with the sisters of battle?
No, and there's a lot of silliness here suggesting that SoS would be integrated within any SoB framework.
SoS will be a standalone faction. They will get love from the studio.
During this time, it is folly to imagine that GW would compete with the new SoS that they need to sell by rehashing any SoB stuff that confuses the issue.
You know... they said there was going to be a 3-5x 50mm base kit, right? Or at least, that is the scuttlebutt. What base size were the sisters of silence on? I mean, worse case scenario, it could happen.
Based on the very very small picture of the entire board game, it looks like they're on the same 32mm bases as the space marines (you can see SoSes in the middle of the board with thousand sons marines close by)
Would some kind of small, two-woman buggy be out of line? Something like the FW Tauros, but more Sister of Battle looking? It would fill the same roll as a bike or Landspeeder, but make them totally different from space Marines.
cuda1179 wrote: Would some kind of small, two-woman buggy be out of line? Something like the FW Tauros, but more Sister of Battle looking? It would fill the same roll as a bike or Landspeeder, but make them totally different from space Marines.
Yes, something like this please. Maybe even make it a 5 model transport.
And I know most are not going to like this but part of me kinda wants GW to go back to the drawing board with their vehicles and give them new ones. Ones that more resemble IG vehicles than marine ones. Riveted armour, wrap around tracks etc. Keep the Excorist and the Immobilator, but redesign them from the ground up, and give them a new transport of their own. I don't know, I just got this feeling that rhino and landraider based tanks should be reserved for the marines and inquisition.
I even said before that I think ordinary sisters should downgrade to carapace armour and auto guns and shotguns with some sort of special ammunition and save the bolters and power armour for the elites. Just so that we don't have another army of bolter and power armour wearing imperials because there's way too many already. That's highly controversial though.
I even said before that I think ordinary sisters should downgrade to carapace armour and auto guns and shotguns with some sort of special ammunition and save the bolters and power armour for the elites. Just so that we don't have another army of bolter and power armour wearing imperials because there's way too many already. That's highly controversial though.
I dont agree with you. Sisters are an highly elite force, a sacred order, if you dont give them Power Armour and Bolter they became Stormtroopers. But I agree with you on the transport question. After all the Immolator STC is relative to the turret that was mounted on a Rhino chassis, but nothing excludes to equip a different transport, like the Chimera or a new one, with that turret. Ultimately I dont like the idea of a buggy. Sororitas (and Ecclesiarchy) are a force that moves with all the frills. They came with hail lauders, censers, priest that give benediction to the troops... Buggy are for a super fast army like the Elysian Drop Troopers.
Ezr91aeL wrote: I dont agree with you. Sisters are an highly elite force, a sacred order, if you dont give them Power Armour and Bolter they became Stormtroopers. But I agree with you on the transport question. After all the Immolator STC is relative to the turret that was mounted on a Rhino chassis, but nothing excludes to equip a different transport, like the Chimera or a new one, with that turret. Ultimately I dont like the idea of a buggy. Sororitas (and Ecclesiarchy) are a force that moves with all the frills. They came with hail lauders, censers, priest that give benediction to the troops... Buggy are for a super fast army like the Elysian Drop Troopers.
But if you do give them power armour and bolt guns then they become marines.
It is just me I know but I'd rather they had something besides bolters and power armour. And their shield of faith and acts of faith can make up the sort fall. Save the power armour and bolt guns for the elite sisters like the celestians.
But if you do give them power armour and bolt guns then they become marines.
It is just me I know but I'd rather they had something besides bolters and power armour. And their shield of faith and acts of faith can make up the sort fall. Save the power armour and bolt guns for the elite sisters like the celestians.
But you forget something: Sisters of Battle considers themselves better than Space Marines. If you dont belive that I'll quote you sister superior celestian Miriya from "Faith and Fire"
Sister Superior Celestian Miriya - Faith and Fire, Chaper 1 wrote:
Who else could be called forth to accomplish what we shall do today? The men of the Imperial Navy or the Guard? They would be dead in moments from the shock. The Adeptus Astartes? Those abhumans willingly welcome psykers into their own ranks. No, Iona, only we, the Sisters of Battle, can stand sentinel here.
So they deserve a same level equipment (if not a superior one).
The only weapon I think could substitute Bolters are Volkite, but that kind of weapon is nearly impossible to produce in the 41th millennium...
I believe that the sisters consider themselves better than the marines for sure, but that doesn't mean that everyone else does.
Volkite weapons would be perfect but that messes with the fluff too much. However if they could imitate the effect either with special ammunition or better yet, an act of faith...mores the better! Keep the faith and you can make your enemies burst into flames!
I even said before that I think ordinary sisters should downgrade to carapace armour and auto guns and shotguns with some sort of special ammunition and save the bolters and power armour for the elites. Just so that we don't have another army of bolter and power armour wearing imperials because there's way too many already. That's highly controversial though.
But then all they would be would be weaker scions. How is that better? And how are they "another" they have been around since 2nd/3rd ed. They are one of the original ones.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
General Kroll wrote: This whole idea that just because they wear power armour and wield bolt guns, means that Sisters are just another Marine faction is bunkum.
They have a totally different stat line and play style, not to mention a completely different aesthetic as far as models are concerned.
It's nonsense, and akin to saying a Ferrari is the same as a Fiat because they are both Italian, run on petrol, and have wheels.
I know all that. I was just trying to see if there's any way to make them more different to marines.
@ Salted Diamond
I didn't necessary say that I wanted them better. I wanted them different.
But look, I understand I'm alone on this line of thinking so I won't push it. I wouldn't lose sleep if they stuck with bolt guns and power armour. I'm fine with it. But if they wanted to change their style I'd be up for it.
Sisters:
ws5, bs4, s3, t3, w1, i5, a2, ld10, 2+.
Preferred enemy (psykers), hatred (psykers)
furious charge and a pariah blade which inflicts ID on any model with the psyker special rule and otherwise is ap3.
they will have the pariah rule meaning they can never be the target of any psychic power. and all psychic powers cease to be in effect within 6" of the unit
I want a 100% Sisters of Battle codex. No Imperial Priests or inducted Guard or any of that other nonsense- especially a mandatory Imperial Preacher for anything related to the Sisters of Battle.
HQ Cannoness
Celestians
T Sisters of Battle Squad
E Hospitaltors
Dominions
Some kind of Close Combat squad (not naked women with Evisorators- such a dumb idea)
FA Seraphim
New flyer
HS Exorcist
Land Raiders
Retributors
Dedicated Transports Rhino
Immolator
Drop Pod
Lord of War Saint Celestine
Simple, clean, and workable. The real fun would come in the detachments.
I'd had to argue against Drop pods. Those are (fluff wise) straight SM. They are the only ones who can supossedly survive the drop due their inhanced bodies. So I'd prefer no to drop pods.
As for priests, SoB are the army of the church after all. Priests go along with IG, why would they not go along with thier own military.
As for repenta, I don't mind mine, but to each their own.
If Saint Celestine get's EW and/or unlimited respawn, then she can go LoW.
Salted Diamond wrote: I'd had to argue against Drop pods. Those are (fluff wise) straight SM. They are the only ones who can supossedly survive the drop due their inhanced bodies. So I'd prefer no to drop pods.
Wrong. Drop Pods requires to wear Power Armour or special system of survability. It's written on Rogue Trader: Into The Storm RGP manual (you can buy them). In particular Adepta Sororitas uses Drop Pods in the fluff and they have their own patter: the Dominica Pattern. wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Drop_Pod
My problem with Adepta Sororita's Priests is that they should be female priests, in power armor, more like SM Chaplains and less like the same guys who run around with Astra Militarum.
master of ordinance wrote: So, do we have confirmation or not? Is this a true thing (finally), or just another empty wish/troll attempt from desperate fans/GWtrollHQ?
Lady Atia says its true so it is. The video teased says 6 months or so. Give or take depending on any delays that could happen.
adamsouza wrote: My problem with Adepta Sororita's Priests is that they should be female priests, in power armor, more like SM Chaplains and less like the same guys who run around with Astra Militarum.
GW has never really gone into the nature of the Ecclesiarchy or the possibility that it is a patriarchy. The SoB have a certain thematic basis in Christian religious orders where sisters and nuns are forced to be compliant to a male priesthood.
That said I don't think there should be anything with female priest models but I do think they should be inline with what's in the Imperial Guard. I think changing that would create another head scratching moment similar to basic level techpriest/enginseers being absent from all the 40k mechanicus armies. But I guess it really does really come down to how the SoB are portrayed as fitting into that Ecclesiarchy hierarchy.
E Hospitaltors
Dominions
Some kind of Close Combat squad (not naked women with Evisorators- such a dumb idea)
I'm of the opinion that every army needs at least 2 troops options. Repentia are the only thing at the moment that might be the second choice, but there's nothing stopping entirely new options, like sisters-in-training unit (Carapace Armor?) or a close combat version of regular sisters (no need for this to be elites) with flamers and CC kit. Personally I'd love to see a unit of Sisters with (power?) halberds.
aka_mythos wrote: Any thing that distances SoB from the perception they are female marines is a positive... anything that makes them more like marines is a negative.
adamsouza wrote: My problem with Adepta Sororita's Priests is that they should be female priests, in power armor, more like SM Chaplains and less like the same guys who run around with Astra Militarum.
GW has never really gone into the nature of the Ecclesiarchy or the possibility that it is a patriarchy. The SoB have a certain thematic basis in Christian religious orders where sisters and nuns are forced to be compliant to a male priesthood.
That said I don't think there should be anything with female priest models but I do think they should be inline with what's in the Imperial Guard. I think changing that would create another head scratching moment similar to basic level techpriest/enginseers being absent from all the 40k mechanicus armies. But I guess it really does really come down to how the SoB are portrayed as fitting into that Ecclesiarchy hierarchy.
Imperial Guard run around in T-shirts and Flack armor, so a robed priest doesn't seem out of place.
Adepta Sororitas run around in divine powered armor, and their spiritual leader runs around in a robe.
If he's male because it Is patriarchy then fine, put the priest in some power armor, like an Inquisitor.
I really suspect it's more a matter of GW being lazy, or economical, and not wanting to produce a powered armored priest, than a fluffy reason.
My thoughts on what I would like to see in the Codex:
AoF, allow each unit to roll a leadership check EACH turn to use their unit specific AoF. Once a unit fails this check, or any other leadership based check they can no longer attempt to use an AoF. Simulacrum allow a re-roll for AoF checks.
Celestians, either give them close combat weapons and rosarius or give them a new AoF and role altogether.
Repentia, give them FnP base, re-roll of Shield of Faith like Seraphim and change their AoF to allow attacks after death like they used to have.
Units and IC's that are slain grant the SoB army "Martyrdom" points that grant an army wide buff that increases as losses increase. Built to fit their fluff and be the completion of the armies core Faith and Martyrdom mechanic.
Allow frateris Militia to be taken as part of an Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave. Allows players who field priests to take the nutters who follow them cheaply, but not as a troop choice, no way they are the base of the army.
Redemptionists like unit with confessors, limited to one special or heavy weapon per ten as a second troop choice.
PenEngines get IWND and FnP, re-roll of Shield of Faith saves.
Palatine returns as additional HQ choice, jump pack option returns for her and the canoness.
Reduce cost of twin inferno pistols for Seraphim to same as twin hand flamers.
Torrent for Immolator twin heavy flamer turret. Would be great for ALL SoB flamers to get a 6' torrent to set them apart (and above)
Chirurgeon as a 1-3 elite
Formations akin to the basic idea of their old apoc formations with updated rules and requirements.
The thing I want most from the new Codex is to be only average in power.
I absolutely, positively, do not ever want the Sisters of Battle Codex to ever be the most powerful Codex in the game.
I would honestly rather have Sisters of Battle be the least powerful army in the game than the most powerful.
And I, honestly, am frightened that Games Workshop might view the Sororitas history of low sales numbers, and consciously decide that to ensure the success of the new models, they need to make the Sisters of Battle Codex overpowered to convince as many people to get into the army as possible.
A situation where Sisters of Battle are overpowered is, frankly, a nightmare scenario for me.
Many of you, undoubtedly, do not understand why I fear my army being powerful. Why I do not want to be the most powerful in the game.
The reason stems back to 2012, when I was talking to a long-term Grey Knights player on Dakka, and he described what it was like for him in 2011 when the 5e Grey Knights Codex came out.
Those FotM comments that people make about people who people who play the most powerful army... Those comments are indiscriminatory. No one who makes those comments bothers to find out anything about the person they're making them about. They are not limited to only people who did switch armies to be the most powerful, they are also leveled at long-term players of the army who would've been playing it anyways.
A particular situation he described was the most damning evidence of all that no matter what, you cannot get people to stop making those comments until your army is no longer the overpowered one. He was setting up for a game against a buddy he'd been playing against for years, who knew how long he'd been playing Grey Knights and that they were his main army the whole time. That friend, who knew him, who knew how long he'd been playing Grey Knights, who had the most first-hand knowledge that is possible that the Grey Knights player he was facing was not a FotM army switcher, looked at the Grey Knights, and made one of those rude comments people make when they're up against the FotM army. The Grey Knights player pointed out how he should know Grey Knights was his main army. The answer was, as I recall, "Oh. Yeah. Been a while since you've pulled them out though."
This guy had not gotten the new models. All of his Grey Knights were metal and well-painted and based. Still, he received those comments constantly.
My main army for the past... getting close to a decade now at least... has been Sisters of Battle. They are the only faction I am willing to play in the TTG. My collection has been complete for five years and I have had faith that the plastics will come someday ever since, though my hope has wavered from time to time.
If Sisters of Battle become overpowered, every time I talk about my army to anyone online who knows about WH40k tabletop, I am going to hear those comments.
Every time I come to Dakka, I am going to receive those comments. It is inevitable.
Sisters of Battle being overpowered would make discussing WH40k tabletop unpleasant to the point I may simply stop discussing it altogether until a new FotM army appears.
And not a single one of the people on this forum will care how long I have played Sisters of Battle. Not a single person will feel bad that the things they're saying are ruining my enjoyment of WH40k. They will all feel fully justified.
And frankly, they're directing their anger at the completely wrong place. Sisters of Battle players will have had no hand in making the army overpowered. No FotM army is overpowered because the players made it overpowered. Players do not have any control over how powerful anything is. That decision lies fully, completely with the game designers. The people who wrote those rules into existence.
But people are going to insult me like I had something to do with it.
Sticks and Stones and all that Pouncey, but I hear you. I have only played my RG once since Kauyon/Angels of Death came out. Not because they are so OP, but because a bunch of less discerning players locally jumped to them immediately. Suddenly the tables were full of bare plastic Raven Guard and I would rather let my 3ed old battle company sit on the shelf than be associated with the dex jumper crowd.
The SoB dex doesnt need much, fix our three weak units and correct and expand AoF as the armies core mechanic and we are fine. Some neato things would still be out there, but the SoB don't NEED them.
dracpanzer wrote: Sticks and Stones and all that Pouncey, but I hear you. I have only played my RG once since Kauyon/Angels of Death came out. Not because they are so OP, but because a bunch of less discerning players locally jumped to them immediately. Suddenly the tables were full of bare plastic Raven Guard and I would rather let my 3ed old battle company sit on the shelf than be associated with the dex jumper crowd.
The SoB dex doesnt need much, fix our three weak units and correct and expand AoF as the armies core mechanic and we are fine. Some neato things would still be out there, but the SoB don't NEED them.
I suppose I'd be a bit lucky in that eventuality then. I only play at home, and my mom is a very casual gamer so she wouldn't be making any such comments.
aka_mythos wrote: Any thing that distances SoB from the perception they are female marines is a positive... anything that makes them more like marines is a negative.
Better get rid of the bolters then.
If they did, would it be so bad? -I don't think so. My 30k militia are powered armored and run around with R30 S4 and R18 S5 las weapons... purely from a game design stand point nothing says they have to carry bolters just because marines do.
Is it better to give each unit their own unique act have of faith or have a list that all units can choose from? Probably the first for simplicities sake.
And I accept the power armour and bolt guns. It's a grandmother clause and it's too far gone to go back on.
I prefer each squad type having their own AoF. A 20 strong BSS squad with Rending bolters and flamers sounds cool, but what will that do to their overall points price? The only unit AoF that doesn't fit the unit are the Celestians. Though more than anything in the Codex Celestians need to be torn down, re-thought and put back together, right this time.
Pouncey wrote: The thing I want most from the new Codex is to be only average in power.
I absolutely, positively, do not ever want the Sisters of Battle Codex to ever be the most powerful Codex in the game.
I would honestly rather have Sisters of Battle be the least powerful army in the game than the most powerful.
And I, honestly, am frightened that Games Workshop might view the Sororitas history of low sales numbers, and consciously decide that to ensure the success of the new models, they need to make the Sisters of Battle Codex overpowered to convince as many people to get into the army as possible.
A situation where Sisters of Battle are overpowered is, frankly, a nightmare scenario for me.
Many of you, undoubtedly, do not understand why I fear my army being powerful. Why I do not want to be the most powerful in the game.
The reason stems back to 2012, when I was talking to a long-term Grey Knights player on Dakka, and he described what it was like for him in 2011 when the 5e Grey Knights Codex came out.
Those FotM comments that people make about people who people who play the most powerful army... Those comments are indiscriminatory. No one who makes those comments bothers to find out anything about the person they're making them about. They are not limited to only people who did switch armies to be the most powerful, they are also leveled at long-term players of the army who would've been playing it anyways.
A particular situation he described was the most damning evidence of all that no matter what, you cannot get people to stop making those comments until your army is no longer the overpowered one. He was setting up for a game against a buddy he'd been playing against for years, who knew how long he'd been playing Grey Knights and that they were his main army the whole time. That friend, who knew him, who knew how long he'd been playing Grey Knights, who had the most first-hand knowledge that is possible that the Grey Knights player he was facing was not a FotM army switcher, looked at the Grey Knights, and made one of those rude comments people make when they're up against the FotM army. The Grey Knights player pointed out how he should know Grey Knights was his main army. The answer was, as I recall, "Oh. Yeah. Been a while since you've pulled them out though."
This guy had not gotten the new models. All of his Grey Knights were metal and well-painted and based. Still, he received those comments constantly.
My main army for the past... getting close to a decade now at least... has been Sisters of Battle. They are the only faction I am willing to play in the TTG. My collection has been complete for five years and I have had faith that the plastics will come someday ever since, though my hope has wavered from time to time.
If Sisters of Battle become overpowered, every time I talk about my army to anyone online who knows about WH40k tabletop, I am going to hear those comments.
Every time I come to Dakka, I am going to receive those comments. It is inevitable.
Sisters of Battle being overpowered would make discussing WH40k tabletop unpleasant to the point I may simply stop discussing it altogether until a new FotM army appears.
And not a single one of the people on this forum will care how long I have played Sisters of Battle. Not a single person will feel bad that the things they're saying are ruining my enjoyment of WH40k. They will all feel fully justified.
And frankly, they're directing their anger at the completely wrong place. Sisters of Battle players will have had no hand in making the army overpowered. No FotM army is overpowered because the players made it overpowered. Players do not have any control over how powerful anything is. That decision lies fully, completely with the game designers. The people who wrote those rules into existence.
But people are going to insult me like I had something to do with it.
Part of me, as a long time SoB player, would love and laugh if they became OP, I agree that I don't want them to become FotM. I experienced that with BA. I had been playing the PDF codex for awhile when the 5th ed dropped, and suddenly BA players were coming of the woodworks, and I was getting the FotM comments. In all honesty I'd be happy with a mostly balanced codex with decient rules and effective formations.
It's been a while since I've read Enforcer by Matthew Farrer but I always thought that had a good representation of what Sisters were all about.
1.) Battle Sisters should keep their iconic armour and bolters, new 10 model box set to make Celestian, Dominion and normal Sisters
2.) Saint Celestine gains Eternal Warrior, new model same size as Riptide
3.) Seraphim should have access to power lances, give them more angelic feel. Wings instead of jump packs like Stormcast Prosecutors. new 5 model box.
4.) Missionaries and Militia should be included for cheap cannon fodder, new box set to include both
5.) Retribuors should be given heavier armour like Centurions, new box of 3 models
6.) Repentia to be cheaper suicide squad or changed to small Deathcult Assassin squad, 10 model or 5 model box
7.) Penitent Engine access to wider range of weapons, new plastic box
8.) Exorcist just needs to be slightly redesigned, new plastic box shared with Immolator
9.) Enlarged Aquilla made into transport / gunship, new plastic box
St celestine becoming EW and t4/5 would be fantastic, repentia turned into troops or keep as elites that are cheaper or either an assault vehicle
I like the seraphim as is as an harassment squad but there should be another type for them to be more melee focused (as others have suguessted), exorcist being vehicle squads of 1-3 like the penitent engine, pen engines need to be MC like the dreadknight, a flyer of any type, retributors need something to make them worth concidering (grav or las cannons options to make them unique).
Re-work acts of faith to last the entire round and usable more than once as long as you keep making the leadership checks and done during either the start of the turn or psy phase
For their decurion army wide bonus improve their ++ to a 5++
Repentants formation
2 squads of Repentia
1 squad of Pentitent engine
Bonus:Repentia ignore unwieldy and gain furious charge , PE gain FNP that Repentia do when Repentia make their AOF
Holy fire formation
1 squad exocist
2-3 max squads of Retributors
bonus: re-roll missiles for exocist, re-roll to-hit for rets
The Killa Kans are certainly smaller, but the Penitent engine isn't that much bigger. The original model was pretty much a heavily converted sentinel with a new crew cab and arms. If the Penitent engine becomes a multi-model unit it'd probably be more like the Crisis suit box.
I think what I want to see is the Penitent engine model get Dreadknight sized larger while the SoB should get some smaller more like centurion armor sized version to give SoB an almost dreadnought but heavy infantry unit.
Considering they are just Adepta Sorortas Killa Kans, available 3 to box for $46.25, I don't see it being a big stretch
Penitent Engines are not nearly that small.
They are taller because they have longer legs, but they fill the same role.
Give them some MC stats, 1-3 per selection, 3 to a box for $80, and a formation that uses 9 of them, and you have something along with the trends of recent codex releases.
I'd prefer bumping them up to something similar to a Deathknight, but since all anyone fields for GK is Termies and Deathknights, I don't think GW will pursue that avenue again.
aka_mythos wrote: The Killa Kans are certainly smaller, but the Penitent engine isn't that much bigger. The original model was pretty much a heavily converted sentinel with a new crew cab and arms. If the Penitent engine becomes a multi-model unit it'd probably be more like the Crisis suit box.
They are taller because they have longer legs, but they fill the same role.
Give them some MC stats, 1-3 per selection, 3 to a box for $80, and a formation that uses 9 of them, and you have something along with the trends of recent codex releases.
I'm not (just) talking in terms of height here. If you had to draw comparison to another kit, the Penitent Engine is closer to a Deff Dread or a Sentinel, its legs are so long it's poseability is visibly constrained by the size of its base, if you even try to pose it right it's arms will hang well over the edge the base. A new model would easily be somewhere between a dreadnought and a sentinel in terms of sheer volume of plastic. By comparison the Killa-Kans fit rather comfortably on their base, even dreadnoughts don't have a problem with their arms hanging over the side, not usually, anyway, and crisis suits are so much smaller than any of these I have no idea why people keep bringing them up.
You can take dreadnoughts in units of 1-3, GW still sells them individually as a rule, I don't see them selling a plastic Penitent Engine (that's the same size as the existing one) for any less than a dreadnought, and at that point bundling them into threes is going to put people off, especially if the PEs stay as bad in-game as they have consistently been in multiple iterations of the Sisters' codex.
I don't see them selling a plastic Penitent Engine (that's the same size as the existing one) for any less than a dreadnought, and at that point bundling them into threes is going to put people off, especially if the PEs stay as bad in-game as they have consistently been in multiple iterations of the Sisters' codex.
This is basically right. The PE is just a really big target. Stat-wise, I'd say AV10/10/10 with a 4++ Power Field (Front, only), dual DNCCWs with regular Flamers (fire both as a Heavy Flamer). 90 pts or so, based on Sentinel pricing.
I'd like there to be a list (perhaps like 6 AoF useful in different scenarios) of Acts of faith that any faithful unit may use as long as they pass a leadership test. Perhaps for each faithful unit on the board at the beginning of the movement phase you generate 1 faith point, that way larger army has a larger faith pool and vice versa. Then during your movement you declare a unit, declare the AoF and substract the required faith points (not all AoF will cost 1 point, some may be more) and make your Ld test. As long as you have faith points you can use as many AoF as you can afford but only 1 AoF per unit. I feel like that'd be fun, tactically versatile and would scale with the army. I really dislike the book-keeping I have to do right now to remember which units have already used their AoF this game, or trying to remember which unit has which AoF. The other problem with locking an AoF to a specific unit is that based on what weapons you equip them with their AoF may be significantly less useful. Doms with flamers or rets with multi-meltas for example.
Bolters and Power Armour is fine by me, it's pretty old-school SoB so it'd be weird to change it. I would like to see some SoB specific flamer and melta variants though. Perhaps even a SoB storm bolter variant too. Keep the holy trinity but give us some unique flair to the core weapons.
Celestians struggle for a role and I'm hard-pressed to think of anything that'd make everyone happy. I thought they'd be cool with storm bolters and a storm shield equilivent, kind of as a defender squad to hold the line but I doubt many people would feel that fits them thematically. To fit the "close combat" role that I think the digidex currently has for them I think they'd need some interesting special rules to make these S3 T3 girls worthwhile in melee, especially considering we have eviscerator wielding crazies already.
I'm not too familiar with SoB, but if GW wanted me to buy in, this is what I'd like to see:
HQ
- Celestine - needs to look more impressive
- Remove Jacobus; replace her with a Joan of Arc sort of character that has a sacrifice mechanic (she takes damage so other units/models can survive)
- (New) Mother Superior - armed with a combibolter
- Canoness - remodel so the open book is on her belt
- Redo Missionary as a female character that looks less medieval
ELITES
- A Sister "Choir" which has psychic-like abilities (which they ascribe to being "acts of faith" to justify their use/existance, even though they're worked out like psychic powers).
TROOPS
- Sisters - remake 'em in plastic
- Repentia - incorporate a bolter into the base of the chainsaw
DEDICATED TRANSPORT
- A Flu er-de-lis shaped drop pod?
- An open-topped "wagon-like" transport - maybe something that looks like a SDKFZ 251 Hanomag (could be taken as heavy support with options like a multimelta or other heavy weapons)?
FAST ATTACK
- Sepharim (making the backpack more wing-like)
- (New) Sisters on hoverbikes - say, something akin to this (or something like Harleys with wings)?
- A reverse trike vehicle like the Polaris Slingshot - with some sort of melta or flamer weapon:
HEAVY SUPPORT
- A slight redesign to the exorcist so the "pipes" looks slightly more like a katayusha rocket launcher (in that they are at more of a slanting angle instead of straight up). Until I read the model's entry, I thought it was a silly-looking sonic weapon of some sort, not a missile launcher.
Stormonu wrote: I'm not too familiar with SoB, but if GW wanted me to buy in, this is what I'd like to see:
HQ - (New) Mother Superior - armed with a combibolter
- Canoness - remodel so the open book is on her belt
I like you list for the most part, but inplace of a higher ranks Canoness, I think we need a cheaper lower ranked one. From the old Witchhunters codex, a Palatine.
If you want to go higher then the correct names (in order from low to high) would be Canoness Commander/ Canoness Preceptor/ Canoness Superiror. Mother Superiror just dosn't sound right to me.
master of ordinance wrote: So, do we have confirmation or not? Is this a true thing (finally), or just another empty wish/troll attempt from desperate fans/GWtrollHQ?
Lady Atia says its true so it is. The video teased says 6 months or so. Give or take depending on any delays that could happen.
Technically, the video said "several months" and didn't give a specific number. I do agree that Atia saying it more or less confirms the rumor in my mind. My guess is Q1 2017, so 6 months would be about right.
In the Age of Apostasy before the SoB when the Ecclesiarchy had their armies... I have to imagine there are some other demilitarized remnants of units from that era... Frateris milita are good example of that having been part of the Ecclesiarchy's army back in the day but now benefiting from work arounds by being more of an ad-how force. Other things like the Redemptionist gangs represent similar sorts of ad-hoc forces serving the Ecclesiarchy.
* Sisters in lighter armor with rules to reflect more of a skirmisher role, as an alternate troop choice.
* An Elites choice that represents a dedicated CC option, preferably with some tool which enables them to reach/survive CC.
* Some type of Chariot in a FA slot. Something that can do a little hardcore assaulting, but primarily gives a support buff to units within a certain radius.
* Some kind of towering construct-colossus in a Heavy slot. An MC (or dare I say it, GMC) that is slow but extremely powerful, like some kind of living statuary.
– 3 model Sisters unit on 50mm bases kit
(very much wishlisting) a saint celestine like squad. Angel-winged power armored multi wound flaming sword wielding angels of doom. possibly 2 wound FMC's. Awesome in assault, no shooting attack at all maybe. I imagine this isn't a popular thing to wish for, though :(
– 5 model Sisters unit on 32mm bases kit (different from the infantry unit listed above)
Celestian/Seraphim combo kit
– Sororitas combo unit vehicle kit “A” kit
Rhino/immolator
– Sororitas combo unit vehicle kit “B” kit
Excorsist/anti air vehicle
It would be incredibly cool if Sisters could get something similar to Centurians but a bit less armoured but with a powerfull jumpack, for example something like this:
UNIT COMPOSITION: 2 Archangel Sisters, 1 Archangel Sister Superior
WARGEAR:
TL Heavy Flamers
Jumpack
Two Eviscerators
SPECIAL RULES:
Shield of Faith
Act of Faith (something cool I dont know)
Slow and Purposeful
Very Bulky
OPTIONS:
-May include up to two additional Archangels ------------------------------------------- 50 pt / model
-Any model may replace its TL Heavy Flamers with on o the following:
___TL Heavy Bolters ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- free
___TL Multi-Melta -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15 pt / model
-Upgrade Archangel Sister Superior to Archangel Veteran Sister Superior ------ 10 pt
The Jumpack would compensate the lack of a Land Raider transport and would made them a great melee unit for the Sisterhood.
Ezr91aeL wrote: It would be incredibly cool if Sisters could get something similar to Centurians but a bit less armoured but with a powerfull jumpack, for example something like this:
UNIT COMPOSITION: 2 Archangel Sisters, 1 Archangel Sister Superior
*Snip*
This sounds cool indeed. Although I'd rather have them have a mystical origin like the saint celestine rather than a technological one. I think the hypocrisy theme that they have mutants (that just look like angels) is a lot cooler than the tech route.
close combat heavy sisters with swords and shields
Could be simple giving Celestian the possibility to substitute their Boltgun with a Chainsword (free) or a Power Weapon (10 pt) and their Boltpistol with a Praesidium Protectiva (15 pt)
close combat heavy sisters with swords and shields
Could be simple giving Celestian the possibility to substitute their Boltgun with a Chainsword (free) or a Power Weapon (10 pt) and their Boltpistol with a Praesidium Protectiva (15 pt)
PS: The Cathedral Tank is a must!
I'd like to see Celestians be able to specialize how they see fit. Do something like how IG/AM veterans take a doctrine. They may either go CC and swap bolt gun for CC w/ upgrade to PW, OR they can swap for a combi weapon and like 2-3 can go special
close combat heavy sisters with swords and shields
Could be simple giving Celestian the possibility to substitute their Boltgun with a Chainsword (free) or a Power Weapon (10 pt) and their Boltpistol with a Praesidium Protectiva (15 pt)
PS: The Cathedral Tank is a must!
I'd like to see Celestians be able to specialize how they see fit. Do something like how IG/AM veterans take a doctrine. They may either go CC and swap bolt gun for CC w/ upgrade to PW, OR they can swap for a combi weapon and like 2-3 can go special
If this is all you change you probably still won't ever see celestians unless they're cheaper tham basic sisters. A CQC model with S3 T3 I3 could have 200 wounds and 2+ 3++ and still be worthless. The combi-weapons might be neat but i'd rather have obsec 90% of the time.
Sisters need some broken, bs rules and units if we want them to survive past the initial rush and most people here are thinking too small rules wise. Although some epic ideas for new models are getting thrown around.
Erjak. I totally disagree with you about SoB needing "broken, bs rules and units". The arms race got us in the mess 40K is in now and there needs to be a stopping point. Having a fair and balanced dex will make it so we won't compete with the super broken combos and formations but it'll grant us the ability to play against a wide range of dexes and lists without being called "that guy". It's frustrating to find an opponent, he asks what army you play and you say "Eldar" and you can visibly see him start to think about not playing you. Then you have to explain that you don't use WK's or scatbikes or spam aspect host spiders. Your list is CAD and a healthy mix of units. I don't want to see SoB become another dirty word at the gaming store like Eldar, SM and Necron. All of which are hated not because the whole codex is OP but only because a few broken units/formations that WAAC or tourney players spam.
Inevitable_Faith wrote: Erjak. I totally disagree with you about SoB needing "broken, bs rules and units". The arms race got us in the mess 40K is in now and there needs to be a stopping point.
Agree. Sisters should be dialed back in power so that they're totally fair to play against.
Inevitable_Faith wrote: Erjak. I totally disagree with you about SoB needing "broken, bs rules and units". The arms race got us in the mess 40K is in now and there needs to be a stopping point.
Agree. Sisters should be dialed back in power so that they're totally fair to play against.
I'm not saying they need to be eldar levels of busted but they need a few units/formations that opponents look at and go 'wow that's scary!'. There needs to be a reason to play them other than just aesthetics if the line wants to survive. You barely see Tyranid or Orks anywhere anymore and those factions have large loyal followings. If sister's are on the same level of power you'll see volume sales figures that might not be sustainable in the long term (obviously the pre-orders would be so huge that pretty much every outlet that buys GW products would go down but after the initial rush they still need to move models.) If we want sisters to be a product line that gets updated again in less than 20 years we need at least some small part of the codex to be powerful enough to draw in tournament gamers. Even if it was a single 'Riptide Wing' esque formation.
Inevitable_Faith wrote: Erjak. I totally disagree with you about SoB needing "broken, bs rules and units". The arms race got us in the mess 40K is in now and there needs to be a stopping point.
Agree. Sisters should be dialed back in power so that they're totally fair to play against.
I'm not saying they need to be eldar levels of busted but they need a few units/formations that opponents look at and go 'wow that's scary!'. There needs to be a reason to play them other than just aesthetics if the line wants to survive. You barely see Tyranid or Orks anywhere anymore and those factions have large loyal followings. If sister's are on the same level of power you'll see volume sales figures that might not be sustainable in the long term (obviously the pre-orders would be so huge that pretty much every outlet that buys GW products would go down but after the initial rush they still need to move models.) If we want sisters to be a product line that gets updated again in less than 20 years we need at least some small part of the codex to be powerful enough to draw in tournament gamers. Even if it was a single 'Riptide Wing' esque formation.
I don't think the power level of a codex is the single largest determinant of whether an army will sell well or be sustainable. My opinion is that it isn't but I have no evidence of this so I'll not use that as a defense. I don't want to see any units that are glaringly OP though as then I'll always hear the groans from my opponents any time I play them. I want to guiltlessly be able to field any model in the range. Having said that sure why not make some Tournament level formations to compete then in the higher tier play. It's easy enough for casual games then to field whatever you want and just don't take that formation. Formations I think in the long run will be easier to fix in 8th edition if they decide to tweak the power curve of the game rather than trying to adjust the points/rules of individual units without angering the player base. As for Orks and nids I don't know much about Ork units but I hear they are pretty universally on the weaker side of things. An entire codex under the power creep makes playing even casual games tough and I can see why the player base would dwindle. After all I gave up and am selling my CSM for that reason, I couldn't even compete with casual fun lists with them and I reused to buy a bunch of supplements, daemons and FW to try to keep up. I should be able to own 1 codex and put up a fight with it. Nids have a similar issue to Eldar but on a smaller curve in my opinion. In general the Eldar codex is fairly well balanced against the other 7.5 dexes but it has a few standout units that obviously need a points adjustment or rules changes (scatbikes, WK and aspect host warp spiders), it also has a few top tier formations. ids have a few standout units that are leaps and bounds better than the rest of the dex, a few formations as well and so it makes much of the dex obsolete. Same issue as Eldar but harder to play because their low end units don't hold up in casual play like elder units do. I could see them suffering for players for that reason as well.
I feel like formations are part of the larger issue here however, they're not all created equal. Some formations are fun and fluffy and essentially just add some flavour to your army whereas others are obviously top tier and designed to play in the highly competitive field. There is no distinction by GW however as to which are which and so you get players bringing top tier formations to casual fun games and the other guy wasn't prepared to fight that or doesn't own the model range to combat it effectively (or runs one of the weaker dexes such as vanilla CSM, orks or DE).
Would it be agreeable then Erjak to have the units be well balanced and fair for all play and then have a bunch of formations that can fit in either the casual/fluffy game style and some formations that are designed for higher tier tourney play? We are wishlisting here after all and assuming that GW can write solid and consistent rules
JohnHwangDD wrote: Sisters should be on par with IG - CSM / Ork tier army, as that's the typical threat they would face.
In a perfect world SoB should be balanced against ALL armies because GW released 8th edition and re-wrote all the codexes at the same time with the exact same power levels and good flavourful rules. That's an ideal scenario of course and while I believe GW is improving I don't think they're capable of that yet. I really dislike the schism we have right now where SM, Eldar, Necron and Tau can all fight each other alright but trounce most of the other dexes and DE and Orks are happy to go toe to toe as they are similar power levels. Would be nice if all dexes were on the same tier.
I'm OK with the split between interplanetary/orbital armies (Necrons, SMs, Eldar, Tau, IKTs) vs local armies (IG, SoB, CSM, DE, Orks). It's at least fluffy.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I'm OK with the split between interplanetary/orbital armies (Necrons, SMs, Eldar, Tau, IKTs) vs local armies (IG, SoB, CSM, DE, Orks). It's at least fluffy.
I think that's silly. You basically have 2 different games at that point. You'd have real 40k with the worthwhile armies and other 40k with some kinda homebrew looking things I've never seen before. Power level is important and I would rather have people buy sister's the way they buy riptides than worry about that guy that still wants to play single CAD footslog CSM whining about exorcists being D3+3.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I'm OK with the split between interplanetary/orbital armies (Necrons, SMs, Eldar, Tau, IKTs) vs local armies (IG, SoB, CSM, DE, Orks). It's at least fluffy.
I think that's silly. You basically have 2 different games at that point. You'd have real 40k with the worthwhile armies and other 40k with some kinda homebrew looking things I've never seen before. Power level is important and I would rather have people buy sister's the way they buy riptides than worry about that guy that still wants to play single CAD footslog CSM whining about exorcists being D3+3.
I can agree to a point here. I'm less concerned with where the power level is sitting as long as all the available forces are sitting in the same spot. Erjak is right, you might as well have two separate games if you accept power level differences like that. And I don't think it's all that fluffy either, for example why are SM super-interplanetary-awesomesauce powerhaouse but CSM are just a fluff army? Why are DE, portrayed in the fluff as just as dangerous if not more so than their Craftworld cousins, sitting at the galactic kiddy table? Set one power level, adjust all available forces to meet that bar and I feel the game would be better off for it.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Sisters should be on par with IG - CSM / Ork tier army, as that's the typical threat they would face.
Not if you want them to sell, which is what we all want neh?
People will buy new models mainly based on aesthetics and rules, often a mixture of the two.
(Like all the other armies) they need to be on a par with the cheese dexes - Eldar, Marines, Necrons and Tau.
At the very least they must have formations and such.
I'm OK with the split between interplanetary/orbital armies (Necrons, SMs, Eldar, Tau, IKTs) vs local armies (IG, SoB, CSM, DE, Orks). It's at least fluffy.
What is remotely fluffy in that statement - nothing - All the races fight small actions, even the Eldar occasionally carry out invasions - although they and the specific Marine Chapters have the lowest available manpower to do so. All the races have void and orbital assets.
Agree. Sisters should be dialed back in power so that they're totally fair to play against
This makes zero sense unless the same happens to Eldar, Tau, Necrons and Marines.
Agree. Sisters should be dialed back in power so that they're totally fair to play against
This makes zero sense unless the same happens to Eldar, Tau, Necrons and Marines.
I'd actually like that. SM, Necron, Eldar power builds getting dialed back (because I'm sure we can at least agree it's not the codexes as a whole that are OP but rather specific units and formations and combinations thereof) and then seeing general buffs given to the lower tier such as Orks, DE, CSM, Nids and the like. Meet the power levels in the middle. I feel the game has gotten far too killy at the top end and tabling people is far too easy with very strong builds so a sweet spot in the middle I think is preferable to having everything cranked to 11 (scatbikes) or tuned down to 2 (hellions). Were too deep in 7th to make big changes anymore I think but the release of 8th would be a good place to hit the reset button on power levels for all the factions, these staggered codex releases (which I'm sure are better for sales) really hurt the armies that wait years and years to get a current edition dex, I feel it's not viable for the game.
There's a thing where an army has a "concept", and if that concept aligns (accidentally, the rules writers have no idea how the meta is at any given time) with the meta the book will tend to be strong, otherwise weak.
From that perspective, sister theme is something like "marines that have t3 and like flamer/melta weapons". Odds are it'll be a loser. They are squarely in Necron territory (short range shooting) and instead of being t5 with 2 saves they are t3 with 1.
In terms of a rule to change this, how bout something like:
"Slaughterface: Wounds caused by models with this rule can only be saved against once, no rerolls, and no FNP or Reanimation Protocols or anthing else."
Then spam that like candy all over their dex. Make them the army that you can't be durable vs. Best anyone can do vs a particular roll is a 2+, so if you inflict 6X their wounds you kill them.
The reason stems back to 2012, when I was talking to a long-term Grey Knights player on Dakka, and he described what it was like for him in 2011 when the 5e Grey Knights Codex came out.
Those FotM comments that people make about people who people who play the most powerful army... Those comments are indiscriminatory. No one who makes those comments bothers to find out anything about the person they're making them about. They are not limited to only people who did switch armies to be the most powerful, they are also leveled at long-term players of the army who would've been playing it anyways.
A particular situation he described was the most damning evidence of all that no matter what, you cannot get people to stop making those comments until your army is no longer the overpowered one. He was setting up for a game against a buddy he'd been playing against for years, who knew how long he'd been playing Grey Knights and that they were his main army the whole time. That friend, who knew him, who knew how long he'd been playing Grey Knights, who had the most first-hand knowledge that is possible that the Grey Knights player he was facing was not a FotM army switcher, looked at the Grey Knights, and made one of those rude comments people make when they're up against the FotM army. The Grey Knights player pointed out how he should know Grey Knights was his main army. The answer was, as I recall, "Oh. Yeah. Been a while since you've pulled them out though."
Same situation holds true for people who played Eldar before the 6th Ed codex came out. We get called Power Gamers, WAAC players, and all the other FOTM names just because the army we've played for over a decade suddenly became the big kid on the block. It's not our fault and if you don't like it, then quit spamming SM Razorbacks for free and pairing them with Skyhammer Annihilation Forces.
Basically, people are always gonna complain about a codex they perceive as more powerful than what they play. Whether it is or not. ESPECIALLY if there's something spammable, broken, or loop holey about it.
When you get into where any army "should" be you're dealing with overall game design and balance. If power level is dictated solely by your codex the book is flawed, if power level is solely dictated by all other codices besides your's the game is flawed. This is why you can forever argue about power balance. While it is easier to adjust power levels on a book to book level it will always fail to address the imbalances.
Where should SoB be? Somewhere between Space Marines and Tempestus Scions, as unhelpful as that is to say.
SoB are trained in Schola Progenium, just like Tempestus Scions and Commissars but with further faith teaching from the Ecclesiarchy and better equipment that is most similar to Space Marines. That should be central to how they are designed as an army and how their rules are approached. Going too far beyond that I think is wishful thinking.
The reason stems back to 2012, when I was talking to a long-term Grey Knights player on Dakka, and he described what it was like for him in 2011 when the 5e Grey Knights Codex came out.
Those FotM comments that people make about people who people who play the most powerful army... Those comments are indiscriminatory. No one who makes those comments bothers to find out anything about the person they're making them about. They are not limited to only people who did switch armies to be the most powerful, they are also leveled at long-term players of the army who would've been playing it anyways.
A particular situation he described was the most damning evidence of all that no matter what, you cannot get people to stop making those comments until your army is no longer the overpowered one. He was setting up for a game against a buddy he'd been playing against for years, who knew how long he'd been playing Grey Knights and that they were his main army the whole time. That friend, who knew him, who knew how long he'd been playing Grey Knights, who had the most first-hand knowledge that is possible that the Grey Knights player he was facing was not a FotM army switcher, looked at the Grey Knights, and made one of those rude comments people make when they're up against the FotM army. The Grey Knights player pointed out how he should know Grey Knights was his main army. The answer was, as I recall, "Oh. Yeah. Been a while since you've pulled them out though."
Same situation holds true for people who played Eldar before the 6th Ed codex came out. We get called Power Gamers, WAAC players, and all the other FOTM names just because the army we've played for over a decade suddenly became the big kid on the block. It's not our fault and if you don't like it, then quit spamming SM Razorbacks for free and pairing them with Skyhammer Annihilation Forces.
Basically, people are always gonna complain about a codex they perceive as more powerful than what they play. Whether it is or not. ESPECIALLY if there's something spammable, broken, or loop holey about it.
Agreed but what does not help anyone is that the power gap between armies is just so vast and growing. When the last Sisters codex came out they were quite effective with some very nasty elements - Dominions in particular.
However the 7.5 edition power dexes shattered any semblance of balance.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Sisters should be on par with IG - CSM / Ork tier army, as that's the typical threat they would face.
Not if you want them to sell, which is what we all want neh?
I'm OK with the split between interplanetary/orbital armies (Necrons, SMs, Eldar, Tau, IKTs) vs local armies (IG, SoB, CSM, DE, Orks). It's at least fluffy.
What is remotely fluffy in that statement - nothing - All the races fight small actions, even the Eldar occasionally carry out invasions - although they and the specific Marine Chapters have the lowest available manpower to do so. All the races have void and orbital assets.
Agree. Sisters should be dialed back in power so that they're totally fair to play against
This makes zero sense unless the same happens to Eldar, Tau, Necrons and Marines.
I do not care how well they sell - I only need to worry about myself. My only interest is whether the models look good and are playable against their typical fluffy opponents.
It is totally fluffy. Sisters are a local force, defensive in nature. They don't to mass battle (that's what Guard are for), and they don't do orbital strike (that's what SM are for). Sisters augment PDF and are weaker than SM and Eldar and Necrons and Tau.
There is nothing wrong with tiering the armies. Especially as hardly anybody plays particularly well nor plays in tournaments. The whole "competitive balance" thing is nonsense. So accept that Sisters are going to be non-competitive and let that be. Unless you want Sisters to be represented by WAACFOTM jackholes instead of cool fluff bunnies...
JohnHwangDD wrote: I'm OK with the split between interplanetary/orbital armies (Necrons, SMs, Eldar, Tau, IKTs) vs local armies (IG, SoB, CSM, DE, Orks). It's at least fluffy.
I think that's silly. You basically have 2 different games at that point. You'd have real 40k with the worthwhile armies and other 40k with some kinda homebrew looking things I've never seen before.
Power level is important and I would rather have people buy sister's the way they buy riptides than worry about that guy that still wants to play single CAD footslog CSM whining about exorcists being D3+3.
Nope. It's one game, with a competitive crowd and a fun crowd. I'm for the fun crowd.
What you are actually saying is that you want to be constantly defending how you're not actually "that guy", but that you're really into the army because you started with it in 2E / like the models / like the Fluff, etc.? Sisters already have a bad enough rep. Being labeled as powergamers doesn't help. Just be happy, like the Ork players.
I they don't sell they don't get supported - I thought that we had all agreed that - if they are not suported then they die.
Having armies at roughly the same level should be the aim of any game, it does not need to be prefect but just enough to make pick up gaems fun - not Oh you brough Eldar - ah well GG.
Gamers of all levels should be attracted to the army - for fluff, for asthetics and for rules.
The same argument holds for the Asartes - they don't do mass battle - thats for the Guard, the Eldar don't do mass battle, they don;t have the poulation, unless one its one fluff rule for one faction?
JohnHwangDD wrote: Sisters aren't dead, still hanging around. Not like, say Dogs of War. Or Squats.
I seem to recall you saying n another thread:
I think this is par for the course. Plastic Sisters of Battle is a pipe dream, and anybody who believes otherwise is in serious denial.
If sales are poor - its likely they go they way of WFB or just remain as fluff in the books - now recent fluff has been good - Sheild of Baal they kicked serious ass. If the new codex draws on this and reflects it - it will be awesome.
JohnHwangDD wrote: I'm OK with the split between interplanetary/orbital armies (Necrons, SMs, Eldar, Tau, IKTs) vs local armies (IG, SoB, CSM, DE, Orks). It's at least fluffy.
Someone needs to re-read the Armageddon fluff .
Some waaaghs could easily destroy whole chapters of space marines.
JohnHwangDD, no one would ever be called the "WAAC jackhole" player if all the armies were balanced against each other. Saying it's ok to tier the armies only achieves in arbitrarily dividing the player base.
In my case I don't have a large playing group and looking at our forces of our 6 regular players 3 would be top tier and 3 would be bottom tier. By accepting power differences in codexes we'd divide our group of 6 people who enjoy playing against each other to two group of three. No matter how you spin the fluff on that it'll never be fun to have our group divided.
On top of that you can run smaller matches with the top tier armies, smaller matches that let's say a SoB support force would realistically fight. If i'm fighting a small Eldar strike force even at a points level that the SoB would be "fluffy" to fight at I'd still be at a disadvantage because of the codex power tiers.
At the end of the day this is a game, it needs to be fun for as many people as it can to maintain a player base and so if certain fluff bits have to be ignored for the purpose of game rules to play balanced and fairly then I'm ok with that. Yes it is possible to mix both fluff and rules together harmoniously but if that can't, for whatever reason, be achieved then I think proper playable rules are more important than arbitrarily making a unit (or army) either too OP or too weak just because the fluff says so.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Sisters aren't dead, still hanging around. Not like, say Dogs of War. Or Squats.
I seem to recall you saying n another thread:
I think this is par for the course. Plastic Sisters of Battle is a pipe dream, and anybody who believes otherwise is in serious denial.
If sales are poor - its likely they go they way of WFB or just remain as fluff in the books
The one does not preclude the other. Dogs of War and Squats were both active lines that got discontinued; Sisters are still current. And I still don't believe we'll ever get plastic Sisters of Battle, and it is still my opinion that it is foolish to believe otherwise.
If sales are poor, then the status quo remains, because sales are poor today, and they're still around. That said, GW probably should say they're going to pull the plug at the end of the year. It'll allow them to get people to finally commit their dollars to buying, and show GW just how much latent Sisters demand exists. Or not... Then, as we saw with the IG last weekend, GW can do periodic made-to-order batches of Sisters by manipulating artificial scarcity.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Sisters should be on par with IG - CSM / Ork tier army, as that's the typical threat they would face.
Please tell me you are being sarcastic?
We are all wishlisting here, and I am wishing for SoB to be on par with CSM/Orks/IG, simple as that.
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Inevitable_Faith wrote: In my case I don't have a large playing group and looking at our forces of our 6 regular players 3 would be top tier and 3 would be bottom tier. By accepting power differences in codexes we'd divide our group of 6 people who enjoy playing against each other to two group of three. No matter how you spin the fluff on that it'll never be fun to have our group divided.
Maybe your group needs to play smarter, by handicapping the weaker tier against the top tier. Top tier costs +10% more; Bottom tier costs -10% less. Problem solved.
master of ordinance wrote: why would you wish for a codex to be arbitrarily tiered with the weakest codex's in the entire game?
Why not? Those are fun armies to play against.
Also, it's not "Johnny", TYVM. Play nice.
Yeah, but they are also terrible and get roflstomped by every other codex, notably the all popular holy space elf/Space marysue/ Space communist trinity. I dont want Sisters to be murdered again :(
I'm pretty sure JohnHwangDD is just amusing himself at this point by trolling this and the boob armor thread...
On topic, I do think Adepta Sororitas need some sort of boost. They don't need to be tier 1, but the Genestealer Cult codex is a great expample of how units with midling stats, can be interesting and viable with combinations of formation sepcial rules.
Things that wouldn't be out of hand:
Free Transports: Space Marines Codex
Free Master Crafted Upgrade to Flamer/melta: Salamanders Chapter
Zealot bubble
Furious Charge Bubble
Increased Invulnerable Save
3 of Same vehicle in unit gets bonus
JohnHwangDD wrote: No, I'm telling you that my way of playing is very satisfying.
For you - but it would be good to have a bit wider appeal without suddenly jumping to WAAC or other hyperbolic descriptions which seems to be your only alternative.
I (and many others) think it would be better that you did not have to actively decide that only certain armies play each other and that pick up games should be roughly equal or at least not the massive power gap that is presently the case with the 7.5 edition codexes and everyone else.
Making Sisters better than they are now with formation bonuses and the like is almost certainly happening as its not in GWs interests to make another "weak" codex like DE, IG or Orks.
As I've said before and elsewhere, people should be handicapping their games. Both for player skill and for army power.
You're saying Sisters need to be powered up with the Codices that people whine about as being broken, to sell more models. That is, by definition, an invitation for WAAC player to bandwagon on. I disagree with that.
Sisters with formations can be matched with IG and Orks and their formations (both of those armies actually do have formations).
I don't think GS cults need formation rules to be interesting and effective. GSC are just interesting by themselves and if you did away with formations all together they would still be effective. Formations continue to be the worst part of 40k.
JohnHwangDD wrote: As I've said before and elsewhere, people should be handicapping their games. Both for player skill and for army power.
You're saying Sisters need to be powered up with the Codices that people whine about as being broken, to sell more models. That is, by definition, an invitation for WAAC player to bandwagon on. I disagree with that.
Sisters with formations can be matched with IG and Orks and their formations (both of those armies actually do have formations).
People would not need to handicap their game if the balance was remotely there - that's my point.
You're saying that Sisters should be kept at a low tier so that people can't whine about it being broken (or even effective).
That is part of the problem that has been killing 40k - the terrible balance between armies. All armies should be brought up to or down to the same level - it does not matter which.
40kenthusiast wrote:
In terms of a rule to change this, how bout something like:
"Slaughterface: Wounds caused by models with this rule can only be saved against once, no rerolls, and no FNP or Reanimation Protocols or anthing else."
Then spam that like candy all over their dex. Make them the army that you can't be durable vs. Best anyone can do vs a particular roll is a 2+, so if you inflict 6X their wounds you kill them.
Same situation holds true for people who played Eldar before the 6th Ed codex came out. We get called Power Gamers, WAAC players, and all the other FOTM names just because the army we've played for over a decade suddenly became the big kid on the block. It's not our fault and if you don't like it, then quit spamming SM Razorbacks for free and pairing them with Skyhammer Annihilation Forces.
Eldar didn't "suddenly" become overpowered. They've been the most overpowered army in the game since 3rd edition, except for a relatively brief period during 5th where they didn't get a 5th ed dex and armies like Grey Knights caught up.
JohnHwangDD wrote: As I've said before and elsewhere, people should be handicapping their games. Both for player skill and for army power.
You're saying Sisters need to be powered up with the Codices that people whine about as being broken, to sell more models. That is, by definition, an invitation for WAAC player to bandwagon on. I disagree with that.
Sisters with formations can be matched with IG and Orks and their formations (both of those armies actually do have formations).
People would not need to handicap their game if the balance was remotely there - that's my point.
You're saying that Sisters should be kept at a low tier so that people can't whine about it being broken (or even effective).
That is part of the problem that has been killing 40k - the terrible balance between armies. All armies should be brought up to or down to the same level - it does not matter which.
Actually, they should still be handicapping for skill and intersection of play style with army focus. Second, game balance will never be perfect. Third, it is ridiculous that the only way to play is by lining up "even" points.
I'm saying Sisters should be basic tier like the things that they should most commonly be.
Any time 40k has Codices, it has had terrible balance. This is nothing new. That's killing 40k isn't the imbalance, it's the fact that the game itself has become bloated with ticky-tack special rules and unplayable. That said, the fact that several armies are top-tier tournament competitive with each other is a relatively rare phenomenon - usually it's only 1 or 2 lists that are really competitive, with maybe a spoiler. The only time more lists were remotely balanced was when we were all using the rulebook lists in 3E.
Equal points is not the "Only" way to play but if you just want to rock up and have a game it s the easiest way to get a reasonable game - or should be - if 40k was remotely balanced.
Rules bloat is an issue but the sheer magnitude of the current imbalance is as muich or more of a problem
That is part of the problem that has been killing 40k - the terrible balance...
Actually, they should still be handicapping for skill and intersection of play style with army focus. Second, game balance will never be perfect. Third, it is ridiculous that the only way to play is by lining up "even" points.
I'm saying Sisters should be basic tier like the things that they should most commonly be.
Any time 40k has Codices, it has had terrible balance. This is nothing new. That's killing 40k isn't the imbalance, it's the fact that the game itself has become bloated with ticky-tack special rules and unplayable. That said, the fact that several armies are top-tier tournament competitive with each other is a relatively rare phenomenon - usually it's only 1 or 2 lists that are really competitive, with maybe a spoiler. The only time more lists were remotely balanced was when we were all using the rulebook lists in 3E.
Just adding to what you're say... I think there are a lot of caveats to talking about balance. 2 overly "competitive" codices is just as bad game design as 2 under performing ones, and shouldn't be something a codex aspires to... though some people mistakenly feel it should.
As far as SoB abilities go... what makes sense... Before any special rules SoB, as they are portrayed, should be somewhere between Scions and Marines. The SoB special rules boil down to how divine and miraculous we should believe them to be and that is easily scaled accordingly.
In general it strikes me that their faith and miracles should really be a late game advantage, that no matter how dire the game is going you can't count them out... otherwise I think their other abilities should be felt as strong allies and should be a synergistically strong one... imagine if the IG had a whole block of priest leading a charge how inspired they'd be... SoB would be like that but better.
I think while this seems like a great concept it's much harder to accomplish in practice. I have a lot of great people I play with but I've also done pick up games at the FLGS and in those situations I have no idea who or what I'll be playing against. In the latter example my options are to either play against whatever force my opponent has brought or deny the game after looking at his list. I essentially lose out on getting to play because GW can't write a balanced game system where power lists don't exist or are at least neutered to the point that a well played casual list can at least put up a fight. An acceptable balance is achievable in 40k. GW hasn't proven thus far that they don't know what they're doing on the rules front but other companies have wonderful TT games that reach good levels of balance. Power lists will always exist but the goal here to is reach a point that a power list used by a complete amateur will lose to a casual list run by someone who can think tactically and knows what they're doing.
We can change the rules of the game to better suit more players and be more fun. We can't change the people who play the game. "Play with better people" is NOT a solution.
I think while this seems like a great concept it's much harder to accomplish in practice. I have a lot of great people I play with but I've also done pick up games at the FLGS and in those situations I have no idea who or what I'll be playing against. In the latter example my options are to either play against whatever force my opponent has brought or deny the game after looking at his list. I essentially lose out on getting to play because GW can't write a balanced game system where power lists don't exist or are at least neutered to the point that a well played casual list can at least put up a fight. An acceptable balance is achievable in 40k. GW hasn't proven thus far that they don't know what they're doing on the rules front but other companies have wonderful TT games that reach good levels of balance. Power lists will always exist but the goal here to is reach a point that a power list used by a complete amateur will lose to a casual list run by someone who can think tactically and knows what they're doing.
We can change the rules of the game to better suit more players and be more fun. We can't change the people who play the game. "Play with better people" is NOT a solution.
Rules don't exist for "better players" they exist because many people aren't better.
Lance845 wrote: I don't think GS cults need formation rules to be interesting and effective. GSC are just interesting by themselves and if you did away with formations all together they would still be effective. Formations continue to be the worst part of 40k.
I disagree. Without their formations they are almost indistinguishable from guard with allied genestealers. The formations are what make the army FEEL like a genestealer cult. Formations when used correctly can be used to enhance the fluffiness of an army and act as a bandaid for weaker models. are actually awesome, it's the crazy seesawing power level that sucks. I mean seriously, how do a riptide wing and a reclusium command squad exist in the same game?
Lance845 wrote: I don't think GS cults need formation rules to be interesting and effective. GSC are just interesting by themselves and if you did away with formations all together they would still be effective. Formations continue to be the worst part of 40k.
I disagree. Without their formations they are almost indistinguishable from guard with allied genestealers. The formations are what make the army FEEL like a genestealer cult. Formations when used correctly can be used to enhance the fluffiness of an army and act as a bandaid for weaker models. are actually awesome, it's the crazy seesawing power level that sucks. I mean seriously, how do a riptide wing and a reclusium command squad exist in the same game?
I have a love/hate relationship with formations for this reason. On the one hand you're right, they do Band-Aid fix weak units to adjust their power levels to an acceptable level and they often do add fun fluffy rules to what would normally be a basic unit. On the flip side many formations give great bonuses to units that already had top tier rules and didn't need any more stuff to make them awesome. The other issue is that not all formations are created equal. Some have crazy specific requirements for little to no real advantage while others are wonderfully versatile that offer huge advantages to their respective units. Some formations are simply outright more powerful than others. Formations, as they are handled right now, were a great idea that got carried away and were poorly implemented with little to no consideration to how they'd affect the game and its power level.
In a perfect game system we wouldn't need formations to Band-Aid fix weak units because the game would be balanced to a point that there would be no units that need the fix. We also wouldn't need formations for fluffy reasons because the special rules that make an army unique and fun to play would be rolled into the core codex of that army. Having formations in this perfect game system would then be a way to build fluffy lists that break away from the standard FOC and allow you to take special combinations of units not normally available in a CAD without moving the power-scale of the game in either direction.
In theory I like the idea of formations but they are a hard part of the game to balance right now especially since the core of the game is woefully imbalanced as is. And I know above I mention the "perfect" game system. This is hyperbole of course as perfection is not achievable but I feel the rules can reach a point of very strong balance and fluffiness that makes the vast majority of the player-base happy, that is what I mean by "perfect" game system.
Sisters have always been in a strange place. They don't support them because they don't sell... but why would they have ever sold given that they've never actually been supported at basically any point ever? I just don't get the attitude from GW, and never have. If they don't want to take their own product seriously, why do they expect anyone else is going to?
Ideally I'd like to see GW *actually* support sisters with a serious offering of models this time around. I'd also like to see them either get serious about their rules and just pay basically anyone else the entire industry to write some real rules, or just do what Age of Sigmar should have been and do full historical. Completely abolish points and replace them with fake-historical "real" formations made up of very strict listings of models and equipment. Want to play Sisters? Here is a codex outlining several strict fake-historically accurate forces with detailed battle accounts to glean tactics from, paint scheme details down to he exact shade of red used in the summer of 39,994, and you are taking X heavy bolters because that is what they HAD and you will use them to see if you can simulate how they might have performed in battle against various other fake-historically accurate forces to better understand the nature of war in the grimdark future, with all considerations of their point cost vs MEQ killing efficiency having nothing to do with anything.
I'd buy either one of those. Not interested in the slightest if they want to try and re-package the same old Big Mac that is just pure grossness at this point, and in all brutal honesty, that is really what GW products are at this point: a gross and outdated offering with nothing keeping it relevant beyond momentum and nostalgia.
Sleipnir wrote: Sisters have always been in a strange place. They don't support them because they don't sell... but why would they have ever sold given that they've never actually been supported at basically any point ever?
Sisters were fully-supported at the end of 2E, with a full Codex and full range of minis. There were more Sisters than Necrons at that time.
Sleipnir wrote: Sisters have always been in a strange place. They don't support them because they don't sell... but why would they have ever sold given that they've never actually been supported at basically any point ever?
Sisters were fully-supported at the end of 2E, with a full Codex and full range of minis. There were more Sisters than Necrons at that time.
As long as you realize this was literally for a couple months and then 3rd came out.
I'd be okay with Adepta Sororitas getting a 7th edition codex, even if it is 6 months before 8th edition 40K drops. I'm confident that 8th edition will invalidate 7th edition codexes about as much as 7th edition invalidated the 5th and 6th edition ones. If I'm wrong about that, at least I'll have all the codexes I need to keep playing 7th edition.
adamsouza wrote: On topic, I do think Adepta Sororitas need some sort of boost. They don't need to be tier 1, but the Genestealer Cult codex is a great expample of how units with midling stats, can be interesting and viable with combinations of formation sepcial rules.
Things that wouldn't be out of hand:
Free Transports: Space Marines Codex
Free Master Crafted Upgrade to Flamer/melta: Salamanders Chapter
Zealot bubble
Furious Charge Bubble
Increased Invulnerable Save 3 of Same vehicle in unit gets bonus
Lack of CC is one of the most common complaints I've seen about the Sisters since I started playing them in 3rd Edition, but that's silly, because close combat is not what the Sisters do. It's **never** been the Sister's strength, and trying to make it so is one of the reasons the Codex is in such a state.
Free transports and Mastercrafting makes sense for Smurfs, where everything costs an arm and a leg and every miss hurts. Sisters don't fit that archetype at all. Everything is cheap, plentiful, and can do tricks. They don't need handouts. They need people to understand what they are and what they do.
As it stands most Sisters units work fine in an Allied detachment, and to be quite honest I'd be happy keeping them that way. If you wanted to make them a viable army in their own right without utterly rebooting the faction and re-configuring it for close combat, you start by recognising that Sisters don't do close combat. They are a cheap, mechanised, mid-range stand-off shooting army, and their wargear, special rules, and gimmicks should reflect this. With that in mind, here's my suggestions:
== All squads except Repentia get defensive grenades as standard instead of assault grenades. Include an option to swap them for assault grenades if you like, but count on it never being used.
== Instead of silly assault-oriented AoF (Making it easier for my S3 I3 Command Squad to get into combat? Yeah, thanks, guy), give them AoF which reflect their desire to avoid combat. Off the top of my head: an AoF which allows Celestians to fire Overwatch at their full BS, an AoF which allows Command Squads to move D6" if a charge is declared against them, make the Veteran Superiors grant something like ATSKNF to a squad, that kind of thing.
== Mobility is decisive in 7th Edition (hence all those Warp Spider/ White Scars lists winning tournaments), and Sisters rely on vehicles to provide theirs. However, vehicles are nowhere near as resilient as they were in 5th - which is good for the game, but bad for the Sisters. The solution to this is tricky without changing the fluff to give Sisters jetbikes and Deep Strike, but there are ways to do it. A formation which gives ObSec to Seraphim and Dominions (requires Celestine as an HQ), wargear which improves their vehicle's resilience and safeguards their ability to move, etc etc.
== Repentia. Ever since 3rd Edition there have been individuals who insist they're awesome because 250pts of them could kill a Dreadnought. These individuals are misguided. Their current iteration is better than the 3rd Edition version, but they're still an overpriced, half-assed melee "deathstar" which doesn't really fit comfortably in the kind of army Sisters want to build. In the brave new world of shooty Sisters I'd make them 60pts for a squad of 5 plus the Mistress, +7 per extra model. At that price point you don't get an Eviscerator; you get a Two-Handed Chainsword (+1S, AP-) instead. You can have the Eviscerator for +10pts per model if you want it, but it's an all-or-nothing deal; either every model gets an Eviscerator, or nobody does. No transport options; instead they get Move Through Cover, and a max unit size of 14 Repentia plus Mistress. The Mistress costs 28pts in this set up, which is not justified by Neural Whips and Power Armour alone, so the whole unit has Counter-Attack and Feel No Pain while she's alive. They now get FNP as standard so need a new AoF: Fury of the Penitent, tested for at the start of either player's assault phase, if successful the unit gains Rampage until the end of the current assault phase - this keeps them relevant as the game wears on and they start to lose models, which they will, being T3 with a 6++ save and 5+ FNP. Without Eviscerators this unit would cost you 120pts, which seems reasonable for a throwaway meat shield/ tarpit unit with middling close combat ability and zero resilience, which is always how I imagined sensible Canonesses would use their Repentia. They die so the good Sisters don't have to. If you want the silly "deathstar" version it'll cost 220pts, which seems reasonable for a novelty CC unit.
== Take those Inquisition warband-style units and throw them right in the bin. Instead, change the Priests and bring back the old WD Zealot Mobs. Now, instead of being pointless ICs who bestow irrelevant CC buffs on your shooty Sisters units, you can take one Priest for every squad of Battle Sisters in your army, but the Priest must be taken as part of a Ministorum Mob. The Mob consists of 9-29 Peasants plus the Priest, who are GEQs with WS1, BS1, Ld6, and no armour save. Each Peasant has frag grenades, a single close combat weapon and a Mob Gun (Range 12", S3, AP-, Assault 1, Unreliable (remove a Peasant from the mob every time a 1 is rolled to hit when shooting with this weapon)). While the Priest is alive, he confers Zealot, War Hymns and Shield of Faith on the Mob, and is treated as an Infantry (Character) attached to the Mob, not an IC. Mobs cannot be joined by any other ICs, and cannot benefit from any special rules other than those conferred by the Priest. When the unit charges the Priest must end his charge in base to base contact with an enemy; if the Priest is too far away to reach, exchange him for a Peasant model in base contact with a charged unit. The Priest must always issue and accept challenges whenever possible. If the Priest is ever removed from play for any reason his Mob must take a Morale check immediately, and a Morale check at the beginning of every subsequent movement phase (owning player's and opponent's); if the test is failed the mob is removed from play immediately, as if it had been destroyed by a sweeping advance. If the Preist survives the destruction of his Mob, he becomes an IC again and is free to join units as normal.
I've got a small suggestion relating to the fluff of the sisters:
Celestians are the elite of the sisters right? The highest in the order? Yet 'Celestian' is simply a generic term for something heavenly. The term 'Seraphim' however is defined as 'an angelic being, regarded in traditional Christian angelology as belonging to the highest order of the ninefold celestial hierarchy, associated with light, ardour, and purity'. As the name refers to the highest ranking Angels, should 40k Seraphims not be the highest ranking sisters? Especially since they're using a jump pack? Or did I miss something?
Also, keeping with your suggestions BBAP, should Seraphim squads change their jump packs for jet packs? I always felt that the latter suited shooty units better than the former anyway. Having said that, with pistols it doesn't really matter I suppose.
40K is famous is famous for "drive the tank closer so I can hit them with my sword." While I appreciate that you may feel they are best suited outside of assault, they will eventually end up in an assault.
Zealout, Furious Charge etc.. are in line with fluff and existing trends for what religious inspiration does for models in 40K. It may not be the most optimal buff for your chosen playstyle, but it's something likely to turn up in a GW rulebook.
Master Crafted Melta/Flamers for Salamanders are there becuase it's fluffy. They use them a lot, so they are better at using them. Sisters Holy Trinity of Bolter, Flamer, Melta puts them in a similar situation, so again it's fluffy, and there is a precedent for it in the existing rules. It's also not game breaking, so another likely candidate.
Increased Invulnerable save: 6++ is slightly better than nothing. 5++ is what Daemons, and now Purestrains, get. It might as well be a meaningful save if they are going tohave the rule at all.
Wargear: Adepta Sororitas have so far stuck to a limited assortment of IoM, mostly Adeptus Astartes type, wargear. Power Armor, Bolters, Flamers, Meltas, Assault Grenades. I'm pretty sure, as well armed as they are, they don't have a R&D department or the resources of the Astartes or Astra Militarum. This would make jetpacks, jet bikes, and even defensive grenades radical departures from their existing wargear
Simplify the Acts of Faith into special rules that make the units acutally different from each other, and eliminate the one use only .
Divine Guidance (Retributors): All weapons in the Retributors unit gain the Rending special rule
Endless Crusade (Sororitas Command Squad): All models in the Sororitas Command Squad’s unit gain the Fleet, Crusader and Move Through Cover special rules.
Hand of the Emperor (Celestians): All models in the Celestians’ unit gain the Furious Charge
Holy Fusillade (Dominions): All weapons in the Dominions unit have the Ignores Cover special rule.
Light of the Emperor (Battle Sisters): Preferred Enemy special rule
Spirit of the Martyr (Sisters Repentia): Feel No Pain
The Emperor’s Deliverance (Seraphim): All weapons in the Seraphim unit gain the Shred special rule.
If Battle Sisters are going to have prefered enemy, it should probably just be an armywide special rule
Jet packs would be nice, but jet packs and Inferno Pistols seems a bit beardy to me. They seem to do alright with jump packs as it is.
As far as I'm aware the Celestians and Seraphim are essentially your veteran squads. It's not that they're "higher ranked" or whatever, they're just more experienced than the Battle Sisters in the regular BSS, in the same way Sternguard and Vanguard veterans are just Tactical Marines who've proven themselves and can thus be trusted with the expensive kit.
adamsouza wrote: 40K is famous is famous for "drive the tank closer so I can hit them with my sword." While I appreciate that you may feel they are best suited outside of assault, they will eventually end up in an assault.
It's not a "feeling" - these are S3, T3, I3 models with, at best, 2 attacks each, with a maximum squad size of 10 and no way to avoid being destroyed by Sweeping Advances. They also have BS4 and Boltguns. These are models best suited outside of assault. It's not that I've "chosen" to play Sisters as a shooty mech army, it's that that's the only way Sisters can function with any degree of success.
I get that in the fluff the Sisters sometimes go toe to toe with sinners or whatever - but even in the fluff that rarely goes well for them, and frankly, if we're talking fluff, we have to inevitably accept that at the end of the day the Sisters aren't Marines. They're regular humans. Highly trained humans with power armour and bolt guns, but humans nonetheless. They have that GEQ statline for a reason. It makes no sense in-universe that they'd be able to punch Marines or Genestealers to a standstill, and if you want to make it sensible you need to rewrite the army from scratch, including the fluff.
The Salamanders' fluff specifically says the whole Chapter is composed of artisan-level engineers who can maintain and tweak their own gear without help from the AdMech. The Sisters fluff says nothing of the sort, merely that they use Flamer and Melta weaponry a lot and don't use Plasma. In fluff terms Mastercrafted everything makes no sense, and on the tabletop it would be ridiculous considering the amount of Meltaguns and Flamers I could pack into an 1850 Sisters list. We agree on the jetbikes and jetpacks though; they're unnecessary, but the fact remains that mobility is important, vehicles can no longer be relied upon to provide it, and thus the Sisters need *something* if they're going to hang with the big boys in this Edition.
Shield of Faith is absolutely fine as a 6++ save. It's not supposed to be a Terminator save; it's there as an alternative to G2G which allows any models that are lucky enough to survive to act (i.e., shoot) next turn. In 3rd Edition you had to spend a Faith point to get it and hope you passed a Ld check. Now you just get it for nothing on all your squads all the time, which is great. Making it 5++ would just be cheesy, and would demand an increased points cost for all units in the Codex including the vehicles. Considering Sisters aren't particularly well-costed as things stand, I'd rather that not happen.
AoF more than once per game is either ridiculous (Dominions ignoring cover saves forever with their four Meltaguns) or pointless (T3 Repentia losing their FNP to Scatter Laser hits) depending on which unit you look at. The AoF functionality is fine as-is, the only problem with it is it gives CC bonuses to units that have no business entering CC voluntarily. Army-wide Preferred Enemy would be silly given the sheer amount of firepower a mech Sisters list can bring to bear.
Honestly, I think the problem here is less about Sisters being fundamentally broken, and more about you trying to shove a bolter-shaped peg into an assault-shaped hole and becoming frustrated when it doesn't fit. They have serious problems as an army, but they're not useless if you play them right.
master of ordinance wrote: Maybe Celestians and Serephim could be Ws and BS 5, with access to a larger array of weapons upgrades that are available at a discount?
Seraphim function perfectly well as they are; 3+ to hit with shooting and two shots each is good enough. Hitting on 2+ is not really enough of a bonus to justify the extra points you'd pay for the WS5/BS5. Celestians are largely pointless nowadays - in the days of strict Force Org Charts they used to be a good way to get more Immolators, special weapons and expendable infantry into a list, but nowadays you can take infinite BSS with Immolators so the need for them no longer exists. Making them more expensive just means I'm less likely to include them in an army - but I'm never going to include them anyway, so crack on if you like.
I don't see how access to Wargear helps either unit. It allows me to dump more points into them, but that's not something I want to do.
AoFCC bonuses aren't to get SoB into CC; they are to get them *out* of CC.
And no SoB need WS5 / BS5 - that's just stat inflation. SoB are still just a fancy flavor of Imperial Guard, with the same core S3 T3 I3 W1 human stats.
JohnHwangDD wrote: AoFCC bonuses aren't to get SoB into CC; they are to get them *out* of CC.
Command Squads AoF gives them MTC, Crusader and Fleet. Celestians get FC. Both are rolled for at the start of the owning players assault phase. These are abilities you pop before charging, not while you're locked in combat. The Canoness' Hatred AoF might qualify, except the Sisters' weaksauce melee ability makes it pretty much useless for getting units out of combat. Repentia get FNP(3) which is manifestly intended to keep them fighting.
None of these abilities will help Sisters get out of combat.
SoB are still just a fancy flavor of Imperial Guard
Why, because they both have T3 I3? I'm not seeing the similarities beyond the statline. Trying to play Sisters like Guard is just as wrong as trying to play them like Marines or Blood Angels or Orks. They're not any of those things. They're Sisters of Battle. Guard take Dedicated Transports as Multilaser platforms for the most part whereas the Sisters rely on their boxes, since they have no long-range dakka to speak of (again, unlike the Guard) and thus need to shift units around the table constantly. What shooting they do have is far more reliable than anything the Guard can muster (Exorcists being the exception), though it's in much shorter supply. I'd say the Militarum Tempestus, from what little I know about them, are quite similar, except the MT get Deep Strike, Battle Cannons and Carapace Armour so even then it's not an easy comparison.
EDIT: MT get Fast transports too, apparently. Dayum.
BBAP wrote: Honestly, I think the problem here is less about Sisters being fundamentally broken, and more about you trying to shove a bolter-shaped peg into an assault-shaped hole and becoming frustrated when it doesn't fit.
You're the only one insisting this.
My suggestions revolved around tweaking existing rules so they are better at what they already do.
Your argument amounts to that Sororitas suck at assault so the rules should be rewritten making them worst at assault and better at shooting.
How about you dial down the criticism of other peoples ideas and actually provide specific examples of improvements you would make ?
A better Canoness - Rosarius automatically at same base pts cost.
Something akin to Chapter Tactics
Several Sisters special characters - based on the notabels in Shield of Baal would be great
Almost certain to get a variety of formations and Decurion thingy
adamsouza wrote: My suggestions revolved around tweaking existing rules so they are better at what they already do.
You're suggesting tweaks to various rules which already function just fine as they are, and calling for the Sisters assault capabilities to be improved. That's pretty much the design philosophy GW adopted when updating the Codex from WD to 6th Edition. Do you think that fixed the Sisters? I don't. It didn't fix them because the lack of CC has never been an issue for Sisters, and isn't the reason you can't play the current book as a stand-alone army. The issues you'd need to resolve to make them work alone in 7th relate to mobility, the over-reliance on vehicles, and dodgy unit costings. You don't fix those problems with Zealot bubbles or Furious Charge.
Your argument amounts to that Sororitas suck at assault
Right!
so the rules should be rewritten making them worst at assault and better at shooting.
The question is "What do you want to see in the new Codex?" I don't think suggesting rule changes is an unreasonable response to that. Like I said though, the Sisters work just fine as Allies as they are, plus I have a few other armies I can use as a primary detachment, so if we don't get a new Codex for a while then I'm fine with that. What I don't want to see is what we've had in the last two updates; books written by people who have quite obviously never played the army in their lives, and desperate, half-assed attempts to try and make the Sisters scary in close combat, all doomed to failure by that S3, T3, I3 statline.
EDIT: Nobody would try to argue that because the Tau suck at assault but are good at shooting, their rules shouldn't be rewritten to make them "worst at assault and better at shooting". Why is this so contentious when it comes to the Sisters? They're in the same boat here.
How about you dial down the criticism of other peoples ideas and actually provide specific examples of improvements you would make ?
I've done that. See my posts on the previous page for specific examples of changes I'd make.
EDIT: Here it is, in case you missed it/ didn't bother reading:
adamsouza wrote: On topic, I do think Adepta Sororitas need some sort of boost. They don't need to be tier 1, but the Genestealer Cult codex is a great expample of how units with midling stats, can be interesting and viable with combinations of formation sepcial rules.
Things that wouldn't be out of hand:
Free Transports: Space Marines Codex
Free Master Crafted Upgrade to Flamer/melta: Salamanders Chapter
Zealot bubble
Furious Charge Bubble
Increased Invulnerable Save 3 of Same vehicle in unit gets bonus
Lack of CC is one of the most common complaints I've seen about the Sisters since I started playing them in 3rd Edition, but that's silly, because close combat is not what the Sisters do. It's **never** been the Sister's strength, and trying to make it so is one of the reasons the Codex is in such a state.
Free transports and Mastercrafting makes sense for Smurfs, where everything costs an arm and a leg and every miss hurts. Sisters don't fit that archetype at all. Everything is cheap, plentiful, and can do tricks. They don't need handouts. They need people to understand what they are and what they do.
As it stands most Sisters units work fine in an Allied detachment, and to be quite honest I'd be happy keeping them that way. If you wanted to make them a viable army in their own right without utterly rebooting the faction and re-configuring it for close combat, you start by recognising that Sisters don't do close combat. They are a cheap, mechanised, mid-range stand-off shooting army, and their wargear, special rules, and gimmicks should reflect this. With that in mind, here's my suggestions:
== All squads except Repentia get defensive grenades as standard instead of assault grenades. Include an option to swap them for assault grenades if you like, but count on it never being used.
== Instead of silly assault-oriented AoF (Making it easier for my S3 I3 Command Squad to get into combat? Yeah, thanks, guy), give them AoF which reflect their desire to avoid combat. Off the top of my head: an AoF which allows Celestians to fire Overwatch at their full BS, an AoF which allows Command Squads to move D6" if a charge is declared against them, make the Veteran Superiors grant something like ATSKNF to a squad, that kind of thing.
== Mobility is decisive in 7th Edition (hence all those Warp Spider/ White Scars lists winning tournaments), and Sisters rely on vehicles to provide theirs. However, vehicles are nowhere near as resilient as they were in 5th - which is good for the game, but bad for the Sisters. The solution to this is tricky without changing the fluff to give Sisters jetbikes and Deep Strike, but there are ways to do it. A formation which gives ObSec to Seraphim and Dominions (requires Celestine as an HQ), wargear which improves their vehicle's resilience and safeguards their ability to move, etc etc.
== Repentia. Ever since 3rd Edition there have been individuals who insist they're awesome because 250pts of them could kill a Dreadnought. These individuals are misguided. Their current iteration is better than the 3rd Edition version, but they're still an overpriced, half-assed melee "deathstar" which doesn't really fit comfortably in the kind of army Sisters want to build. In the brave new world of shooty Sisters I'd make them 60pts for a squad of 5 plus the Mistress, +7 per extra model. At that price point you don't get an Eviscerator; you get a Two-Handed Chainsword (+1S, AP-) instead. You can have the Eviscerator for +10pts per model if you want it, but it's an all-or-nothing deal; either every model gets an Eviscerator, or nobody does. No transport options; instead they get Move Through Cover, and a max unit size of 14 Repentia plus Mistress. The Mistress costs 28pts in this set up, which is not justified by Neural Whips and Power Armour alone, so the whole unit has Counter-Attack and Feel No Pain while she's alive. They now get FNP as standard so need a new AoF: Fury of the Penitent, tested for at the start of either player's assault phase, if successful the unit gains Rampage until the end of the current assault phase - this keeps them relevant as the game wears on and they start to lose models, which they will, being T3 with a 6++ save and 5+ FNP. Without Eviscerators this unit would cost you 120pts, which seems reasonable for a throwaway meat shield/ tarpit unit with middling close combat ability and zero resilience, which is always how I imagined sensible Canonesses would use their Repentia. They die so the good Sisters don't have to. If you want the silly "deathstar" version it'll cost 220pts, which seems reasonable for a novelty CC unit.
== Take those Inquisition warband-style units and throw them right in the bin. Instead, change the Priests and bring back the old WD Zealot Mobs. Now, instead of being pointless ICs who bestow irrelevant CC buffs on your shooty Sisters units, you can take one Priest for every squad of Battle Sisters in your army, but the Priest must be taken as part of a Ministorum Mob. The Mob consists of 9-29 Peasants plus the Priest, who are GEQs with WS1, BS1, Ld6, and no armour save. Each Peasant has frag grenades, a single close combat weapon and a Mob Gun (Range 12", S3, AP-, Assault 1, Unreliable (remove a Peasant from the mob every time a 1 is rolled to hit when shooting with this weapon)). While the Priest is alive, he confers Zealot, War Hymns and Shield of Faith on the Mob, and is treated as an Infantry (Character) attached to the Mob, not an IC. Mobs cannot be joined by any other ICs, and cannot benefit from any special rules other than those conferred by the Priest. When the unit charges the Priest must end his charge in base to base contact with an enemy; if the Priest is too far away to reach, exchange him for a Peasant model in base contact with a charged unit. The Priest must always issue and accept challenges whenever possible. If the Priest is ever removed from play for any reason his Mob must take a Morale check immediately, and a Morale check at the beginning of every subsequent movement phase (owning player's and opponent's); if the test is failed the mob is removed from play immediately, as if it had been destroyed by a sweeping advance. If the Preist survives the destruction of his Mob, he becomes an IC again and is free to join units as normal.
JohnHwangDD wrote: If CC is brewing, is it better for SoB to give the charge, or to take the charge?
It's not a question of "what's better", because Sisters suck in CC regardless. Rather, the way Sisters play pretty much ensures you'll always be taking charges and almost never making them, because your girls need to be pumping out Rapid Fire bolts every turn at everything they can see, and you can't shoot Rapid Fire and then charge.
As a Sisters player, you deal with CC by either driving your girls away from it, or by feeding it units so it leaves the rest of your army alone. Sisters do not do CC and can't be made to.
And yes, it's entirely because they are both S3 T3 I3.
Right, so the comparison makes no reference to play style or unit costings, or even to effective army list composition, just statline. That's what I thought. Do you understand why that's not a particularly compelling comparison?
SoB are still just a fancy flavor of Imperial Guard, with the same core S3 T3 I3 W1 human stats.
... to comparing the individual models in the space of 3 replies. Even with this little logic shuffle the comparison is vacuous. You don't play Guard for the Guardsmen; you play Guard for the guns and tanks, the Platoons are just something you have to bring if you want to field those things. By contrast, you play Sisters precisely because you want to field Battle Sisters squads, because Battle Sisters are awesome.
Having played sisters in 1500 point heavily comped single CAD, they honestly aren't terrible at the moment. If this was still early 6th the would be quite strong and they do actually hard counter certain army setups, like razorspam, or blob armies with medium-low anti armor (TONS of flamers). A single CAD necron army better be mostly wraiths for example if they want to have a real chance. But the holes in the sisters book are apparent even at that level. They have no real defense against S6 24+inch shooting outside of exorcists, the whole army is incredibly slow, only having 2.5 special weapons option is a BIG handicap, they are extremely fragile without any meaningful blobbing ability (you can but it's not super great) Their generic character is terrible, they're special characters are amazing but die to a stiff fart, adamantium will is their only defense against psychic, they can't handle any army that is able to work around melta AND flamers at all (10man marine squads(salamanders are ASS to go against.), eldar, monstrous creature spam, eldar, tau, dark eldar, eldar, thunderwolf cav with SS, eldar) and the only 2 units in the whole codex that can do ANYTHING in CQC are celestine(who is admittedly AMAZING killed Kharn AND a Khorne lord on juggernaut in my last tournament) and fricking repentia. (penitent engines don't count and celestians are so ass that sisters basically only have an elite slot for posterity)
Sisters need an update that makes them stronger at the baseline, gives them some flexibility in fighting armies that outrange AND are faster(a good eldar player will never lose more models than what exorcists can kill against sisters) and then on top of that they need formations that make them better at what they do (buffs to flamers, meltas, AOF, and shield of Faith) and a few new units and rules changes (completely rework Canoness or make her 35pts, penitent engines become monstrous creatures) and they could be a strong but not broken army they can be played in a lot of interesting ways at a lot of different power levels.
ERJAK wrote: buffs to flamers, meltas, AOF, and shield of Faith
I'm not convinced these things will address the SoB's weaknesses, and I still think buffing Shield of Faith would be beardy, even if it's taxed via Formations. With BS4 shooting, hitting and wounding isn't a problem for Sisters - getting the stuff where it's needed, and getting it out again without it being smashed in close combat, those are the problems I'm finding. It's just too difficult for units to get to reach and support each other while they're relying on Rhinos and Immolators for mobility. Fast transports, options for Outflanking, vehicular AoFs that allow you to ignore Stunned results, some reliable backfield anchor units that can shoot and hold the line, some method for avoiding charges that doesn't involve expending units or vehicles, all of these would put the Sisters a long way towards viability.
ERJAK wrote: buffs to flamers, meltas, AOF, and shield of Faith
I'm not convinced these things will address the SoB's weaknesses, and I still think buffing Shield of Faith would be beardy, even if it's taxed via Formations. With BS4 shooting, hitting and wounding isn't a problem for Sisters - getting the stuff where it's needed, and getting it out again without it being smashed in close combat, those are the problems I'm finding. It's just too difficult for units to get to reach and support each other while they're relying on Rhinos and Immolators for mobility. Fast transports, options for Outflanking, vehicular AoFs that allow you to ignore Stunned results, some reliable backfield anchor units that can shoot and hold the line, some method for avoiding charges that doesn't involve expending units or vehicles, all of these would put the Sisters a long way towards viability.
When I said buff flamers/melta I kinda meant the range of them. an additional 6 inches of range on all meltas and some torrent for the flamers combined with the exorcist being more reliable/ getting something else to throw fire downfield enough that they can't just sit back and pick you off. A distraction carnifex would be amazingly helpful.
ERJAK wrote: buffs to flamers, meltas, AOF, and shield of Faith
I'm not convinced these things will address the SoB's weaknesses, and I still think buffing Shield of Faith would be beardy, even if it's taxed via Formations. With BS4 shooting, hitting and wounding isn't a problem for Sisters - getting the stuff where it's needed, and getting it out again without it being smashed in close combat, those are the problems I'm finding. It's just too difficult for units to get to reach and support each other while they're relying on Rhinos and Immolators for mobility. Fast transports, options for Outflanking, vehicular AoFs that allow you to ignore Stunned results, some reliable backfield anchor units that can shoot and hold the line, some method for avoiding charges that doesn't involve expending units or vehicles, all of these would put the Sisters a long way towards viability.
When I said buff flamers/melta I kinda meant the range of them. an additional 6 inches of range on all meltas and some torrent for the flamers combined with the exorcist being more reliable/ getting something else to throw fire downfield enough that they can't just sit back and pick you off. A distraction carnifex would be amazingly helpful.
Scouting Repressors? Though Fast Immolators would be interesting.
I agree about Torrent on flamer templates. The Immolator used to have the Inferno Cannon. Didn't they give that to the Crusader LR? Compare what it has to what the Immolator now has. All I ever see are multi-melta Immolators in my lists if I'm not running Repressors or Rhino's.
Not sure that I would change melta for sisters. They can get so much of it with ignores cover. Double CAD six Dom squads in Repressors works at 1850 and will leave a nice dent in a lot of Eldar lists.
I agree about AoF, they need a slight overhaul. Though I think they need more than just AoF as an army wide rule.
Fast Immolaror with: DUAL heavy bolter/ TL torrent flamer/ TLMM Saint Celestine with T4 or EW or +1 invuln. Or customisable.
Exorcist firing 3+d3, I would maybe compensate it with BS3 (or d3+d3 and keep bs4). Or alternate firing mode (frag missile)
Huh? When was that, the very first version? Even my old WH Codex has the Immolator with the TL Hflamer, but back then it was allowed to fire even if it moved 12'' since "you don't really need to aim very much with a weapon like this".
I'd still like them to remake the immolater and the exorcist using an IG like vehicle as the base rather than a rhino. Riveted armour plates, wrap around catapiller tracks etc. I think that would suit them better.
ERJAK wrote: When I said buff flamers/melta I kinda meant the range of them. an additional 6 inches of range on all meltas and some torrent for the flamers
That I can kinda see. Like someone else said I'm not sure about the Meltas, purely because there's so many of them and they're generally all mounted Maybe in a Formation or something. I'd want the Torrent as a standard option though, maybe as a second Heavy Weapon for squads or a turret for Immolators so you're forced to swap Melta for it.
The standard HF Immolators used to be "Fast". That was removed in the Cruddex, amongst other things.
Hawky wrote: Exorcist firing 3+d3, I would maybe compensate it with BS3 (or d3+d3 and keep bs4). Or alternate firing mode (frag missile)
I don't think the attack would need balancing at 3+d3 (although I'm biased, admittedly). I think you could leave it at BS4 at that level, considering it's basically your only backfield shootan', plus keeping it reliable means less pressure to take All Meltas All The Time, so it means more variety in your squads. Being forced to spam if you want to win is one of my least favourite things about Sisters. I want the option to Scout Templates into someone's GSC and burn them all to death; reliable Exorcists give you that, for a price.
100% behind the alternative fire mode though. An option for Frakks would be nice too, although adding either or both of these things would require a cost increase. The Exorcist should be an anchor for my army; I should **want** to protect it, but at the moment it's there solely to draw fire, and even at that people usually seem to ignore it until you start using it for Tank Shocks.
Future War Cultist wrote: I'd still like them to remake the immolater and the exorcist using an IG like vehicle as the base rather than a rhino. Riveted armour plates, wrap around catapiller tracks etc. I think that would suit them better.
Do not want. Quite apart from the fact I'd have to buy new models, I associate the Rhino-chassis vehicles with Sisters just as much as I associate them with Marines. Rhinos with fleurs are part of their distinctive "look". Plus their vehicle AV is all based on Rhino chassis vehicles; having Chimera-looking vehicles with Rhino-like AV could confuse people.
Do not want. Quite apart from the fact I'd have to buy new models, I associate the Rhino-chassis vehicles with Sisters just as much as I associate them with Marines. Rhinos with fleurs are part of their distinctive "look". Plus their vehicle AV is all based on Rhino chassis vehicles; having Chimera-looking vehicles with Rhino-like AV could confuse people.
People still forget that Sororitas' Rhino is a quite different in aestetic than the Marine one:
Do not want. Quite apart from the fact I'd have to buy new models, I associate the Rhino-chassis vehicles with Sisters just as much as I associate them with Marines. Rhinos with fleurs are part of their distinctive "look". Plus their vehicle AV is all based on Rhino chassis vehicles; having Chimera-looking vehicles with Rhino-like AV could confuse people.
People still forget that Sororitas' Rhino is a quite different in aestetic than the Marine one:
Spoiler:
Aesthetic? No, they're the same. One has the Fleurs and the other doesn't. It's the same as a Salamanders vs. Iron Hands Rhino, the only differences are color and icons.
Aesthetic? No, they're the same. One has the Fleurs and the other doesn't. It's the same as a Salamanders vs. Iron Hands Rhino, the only differences are color and icons.
I mean... yeah, if you ignore the laud hailer and the completely different assembly of the roof and top hatch...
To be strictly fair though, I don't see that as an example of a typical sororitas rhino, rather that's clearly a clever bit of engineering built with Immolator parts. I've build my SoB killteam's rhino out of a vindicator to give it a distinct look for much the same reasons.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I also would prefer the Sisters use rhino's rather than guard transports. For reasons of fluff they're considered a better class of apc for a better class of soldier, and the ecclesiarchy isn't going to pinch pennies when commissioning equipment.
jreilly89 wrote: Aesthetic? No, they're the same. One has the Fleurs and the other doesn't. It's the same as a Salamanders vs. Iron Hands Rhino, the only differences are color and icons.
... wat. They're the same basic vehicle but each variant has different colours and icons - so by definition they're **aesthetically** different.
what even is going on in this thread i cant to explain it
To be strictly fair though, I don't see that as an example of a typical sororitas rhino, rather that's clearly a clever bit of engineering built with Immolator parts. I've build my SoB killteam's rhino out of a vindicator to give it a distinct look for much the same reasons.
Tecnically it's the correct way to build Sororitas Rhino, as showed in the codex:
jreilly89 wrote: Aesthetic? No, they're the same. One has the Fleurs and the other doesn't. It's the same as a Salamanders vs. Iron Hands Rhino, the only differences are color and icons.
... wat. They're the same basic vehicle but each variant has different colours and icons - so by definition they're **aesthetically** different.
It's as aesthetically different as a Salamanders tactical marine is from an Ultramarines tactical marine. Sure, it's **aesthetically** different, but not in any way that really matters.
What I'm saying is, I'd like the sisters to get their own unique transport (that is more like an IG vehicle in design) rather than just getting rhinos. GW is tripping in rhinos.
jreilly89 wrote: It's as aesthetically different as a Salamanders tactical marine is from an Ultramarines tactical marine. Sure, it's **aesthetically** different, but not in any way that really matters.
Right - but it's aesthetic differences we're discussing. Nobody's claiming the Sisters Rhinos are functionally better or worse than the Smurf Rhinos, or vice versa - we're saying they look different, and hence give your army a different aesthetic. It's similar to the Marine aesthetic because it uses the same basic vehicle kit, but it's still distinctive, in the same way CSM Rhinos or Traitor Guard kits are.
Future War Cultist wrote: What I'm saying is, I'd like the sisters to get their own unique transport (that is more like an IG vehicle in design) rather than just getting rhinos. GW is tripping in rhinos.
Trade in a unique (but like the SM vehicle) for a unique (but like an IG vehicle). Why? Nevermind, no thanks.
Sisters rhinos do have entirely different parts and outline than your marine rhinos. Salamanders or otherwise. Think rhino with a lot more church involved.
Ultimately while there is potential for new SoB exclusive vehicles, I'd rather a new vehicle fix a gap in the army's capabilities rather than replace a transport that already works well.
And frankly, the rhino should be ubiquitous throughout the Imperium, guard and admech should have ways to field them too.
I think a church on wheels transport/fire support combo kit would be awesome. The immolator is fine as is (comparisons to space marine versions are laughable, a razorback WISHES it was as good as an immolator) but having something beefier with the ecclesiarcle aesthetic woyld be awesome (so long as they don't give it land raider syndrome).
I suspect that Sisters will get some of the Dark Angel and Grey Knight vehicle options... just to help move those underselling kits.
Particularly:
Dread Knight? Already with a torrent flamer... why not add melta?
Dark Talon/Nephelim Jetfighter? Add flamers to a jet... totally something GW would do.
Darkshroud? Already looks like they tore pieces of a church off to put it onto a vehicle.
I don't have too much hope for a cheap troop option though. Sisters is going to be a smaller codex. Not quite as bad as harlequins, but not a lot of choices in the troops area. I expect not to see a lot of distinctions between Dominions, Celestians, and Battle Sisters... for example. To me, it is a part of the charm of the codex that while the individual sisters can be unique, they really can go anywhere. I'm hoping for a basic infantry box and then a box of veteran infantry. I don't expect to see a lot of the Inquisitional Henchmen... that will be a different release later. A whole bunch of upgrade sprues shoved in existing vehicle boxes.
Dread Knight? Already with a torrent flamer... why not add melta?
Dark Talon/Nephelim Jetfighter? Add flamers to a jet... totally something GW would do.
Darkshroud? Already looks like they tore pieces of a church off to put it onto a vehicle.
All three of those would fill gaps the Sisters have, but the kits themselves are covered with iconography from their respective factions. As far as a flyer, I'd rather have something with a transport capacity.
Anpu-adom wrote: I don't expect to see a lot of the Inquisitional Henchmen... that will be a different release later.
Personally I wish GW would either make the Henchmen useful or just bin them entirely and stop wasting resources making models for them. Aside from Sages and Servo-Skulls (and possibly Heavy Weapon Servitors for the Daemonhunters) they were largely a waste of points in 3rd Edition, and have sucked progressively harder in successive iterations. The Battle Conclave isn't as bad as the ones in Codex: Inquisition, but it still sucks enough eggs that nobody's ever going to use it in anger. The Temple Assassins are likewise complete guff. This is a shame, because having more characterful units would be awesome, but I'm not going to sacrifice effectiveness for flavour. I don't see why I should have to do that when the two aren't mutually exclusive.
But yeah. Henchmen rant over.
PS: The Sisters need a Skyfire option. Trying to chase down Wave Serpents with Meltaguns is not a fun way to spend an afternoon.
Dread Knight? Already with a torrent flamer... why not add melta?
Dark Talon/Nephelim Jetfighter? Add flamers to a jet... totally something GW would do.
Darkshroud? Already looks like they tore pieces of a church off to put it onto a vehicle.
All three of those would fill gaps the Sisters have, but the kits themselves are covered with iconography from their respective factions. As far as a flyer, I'd rather have something with a transport capacity.
I disagree here, the dreadknight would be horribly disappointing to get in place of a penitent engine model wise (Although feel free to port over most of the rules!), Both the dark talon and the nephilim are okay in how they look but ultimately flyers are so bad across the board that I can't see them making rules that would get people to take them (The avenger strike fighter is already miles above most of the GW fare and people still don't bring it ever.) The darkshroud with sisters Iconography would actually be pretty neat though. Not sure what rules they'd give it, the shrouded thing doesn't really synergize with sisters much.
Psienesis wrote: 1. Dominica-pattern Drop-pod
2. Make its doors Assault Ramps
3. Let it carry either 10 Sisters or 3 P-Engines.
Drop pods are open topped, assault ramps would be silly as you can already technically charge out of one, you just can't charge the turn you come in from reserves.
I think Repentia should be the Sisters go to combat unit. And this is what I would change about them.
Give them I4 and feel no pain 5+ as standard.
Give them the option of two different weapons.
Either:
Two power swords giving them an extra attack and AP3
Or an Evicerator with Sx2 AP2 Armourbane, unweildy etc.
Their act of faith should be the Space Woof thing.
If they die in combat before their intiative step roll a dice. On a 4+ they get to attack as normal before being removed.
dan2026 wrote: I think Repentia should be the Sisters go to combat unit. And this is what I would change about them.
Give them I4 and feel no pain 5+ as standard.
Give them the option of two different weapons.
Either:
Two power swords giving them an extra attack and AP3
Or an Evicerator with Sx2 AP2 Armourbane, unweildy etc.
Their act of faith should be the Space Woof thing.
If they die in combat before their intiative step roll a dice. On a 4+ they get to attack as normal before being removed.
They'd still be terrible. They'd still be too slow, no T3 model is ever going to get to use a FNP, S4 models don't even take powerswords for how useless that is S3 would be silly, I4 isn't fast enough and making their AOF a TERRIBLE version of the Wulfen rule would honestly just be kicking them when they're down.
If you wanna see repentia on the tabletop what they need are bikes, skilled rider, I5, their FNP AOF for the shooting phase and the ability to take an SI (T4 3+ Cover with 3+ FNP is hard enough for most armies to deal with that they might actually survive a turn) And they ignore unwieldy on the charge. Combine that with about a 15 point drop and they'd be a solid but not amazing unit. (Keep in mind they are still only T4 and their only protection is a cover save, which is easily ignored and useless in CQC, their 6+ invul and their 3+ FNP which is negated by strength 8, yeah they'd nuke a knight out of existance 47 times over but a single SM character would rofl stomp the whole unit without slowing down)
I think that the Repentia are going away. These little sub-armies are in niches. Sisters niche? Power-armor hordes with lots of mid-range specialist weapons or MSU with lots of mid-range specialist weapons.
At least for now, Flamers in your Objective holding squads. Melta in your "Kill the Lord of War" suicide squad.
I don't have heavy flamers or combiflamers, so double flamers have to do for now.
Quite frankly, I really hate the bikes most of all. The Jump Packs look far better. We should be wishlisting for alt gear on the existing JP Sisters for a X-in-1 kit, than all new stuff that looks awful and requres a totally separate SKU.
JohnHwangDD wrote: Quite frankly, I really hate the bikes most of all. The Jump Packs look far better. We should be wishlisting for alt gear on the existing JP Sisters for a X-in-1 kit, than all new stuff that looks awful and requres a totally separate SKU.
With the small issue that for the most part Jumppacks are Dogsh*t compared to bikes. I would MUCH rather have bikes and I think if they put sisters on some Ducati 959 Panigale looking things they'd be awesome AND unique.
A Meltagun that ignores cover and can't miss? Sounds balanced to me! Put a chainfist attachment on it as well, one that strikes at Initiative and grants an extra attack in close combat.
So it's a S3+3 I3 AP2 CCW that does an extra d6 against vehicles and incorporates a R12" S8 AP1 gun that ignores cover? How much would we expect to pay for this?
IG pay 10 pts for the Meltagun and 15 pts for a Power Fist, so that's 25 pts base cost. Add another 5 pts for the "ignores cover" and "CCW" effects, and it's an even 30 pts.
Rock on. I'd play against it at that points cost. Take as many as you like!
Matt.Kingsley wrote: The main thing I want is for GW to learn how to price weapons correctly. I want Inferno Pistols to be more than an expensive point-sink dammit!
I think Inferno Pistols are competitively priced relative to IG Plasma Guns and SM Plasma Pistols.
JohnHwangDD wrote: So it's a S3+3 I3 AP2 CCW that does an extra d6 against vehicles and incorporates a R12" S8 AP1 gun that ignores cover? How much would we expect to pay for this?
IG pay 10 pts for the Meltagun and 15 pts for a Power Fist, so that's 25 pts base cost. Add another 5 pts for the "ignores cover" and "CCW" effects, and it's an even 30 pts.
Rock on. I'd play against it at that points cost. Take as many as you like!
...wat. Dude I'd pay 20 points MAX for that stupid thing. Probably not even that, dominions only pay ten points for their ignores cover meltas, just take more of those. The CCW is pretty much worthless, the melta should have been enough to blow the transport and what on gods green earth could come out of it that you'd want to charge a unit of sisters into? Especially one with an ignores cover meltagun in it? Strapping 2 things together doesn't automatically make it more useful. An inferno heavy bolter isn't worth iit' points even with the hb being assault 3
Since this is speculation I'm hoping something better would get made instead. Sisters need a new special/heavy weapon and I'd much rather get a Frag cannon than an inferno heavy bolter. That said I do apologize if my previous post came off as harsh. I just really want Sisters to be an army people respect on the tabletop and the first step to that is bringing the heat with new wargear.
Really stupid question but, is a new Sisters dex actually coming or is this literally just what people would want in a new codex? I don't pay much attention to the 40k rumor mill
However rumours from sources with a 100% accuracy rating and GW themselves have confirmed that plastic Sisters of Battle are coming in a few months. No word on a codex release at the same time, though.
JohnHwangDD will tell you endlessly how GW and these rumourmnogers are "tolling the 2-3 sisters players there are", but he's either in denial or trolling (or both).
A Meltagun that ignores cover and can't miss? Sounds balanced to me! Put a chainfist attachment on it as well, one that strikes at Initiative and grants an extra attack in close combat.
Okay but then it need to have instant death and strength D and torrent 24".
How would you price such a beauty ?
A Meltagun that ignores cover and can't miss? Sounds balanced to me! Put a chainfist attachment on it as well, one that strikes at Initiative and grants an extra attack in close combat.
Okay but then it need to have instant death and strength D and torrent 24".
How would you price such a beauty ?
Nothing if you are a Space Marine... you get as many of those as you want, as long as you buy the special 30th Anniversary kit.
However rumours from sources with a 100% accuracy rating and GW themselves have confirmed that plastic Sisters of Battle are coming in a few months. No word on a codex release at the same time, though.
JohnHwangDD will tell you endlessly how GW and these rumourmnogers are "tolling the 2-3 sisters players there are", but he's either in denial or trolling (or both).
It's rumors and there was zero confirmation by GW, just a joke that people read too much into. For the hype and accuracy you're claiming, Sisters should be imminent. End of year, 2016, not a nebulous "few months".
A Meltagun that ignores cover and can't miss? Sounds balanced to me! Put a chainfist attachment on it as well, one that strikes at Initiative and grants an extra attack in close combat.
Okay but then it need to have instant death and strength D and torrent 24".
How would you price such a beauty ?
Any model may exchange their krak grenades for.... Megaflame Chainmelta, free
There is probably too much speculation for the amount of information that we have.
We have the equivalent of a Marvel End Credit scene. "Months yet" is interpreted as GW trying to get ahead of the Rumor Mongers, while making it clear that they aren't the plastic Sisters of Silence seen in the Burning of Prospero.
Could Sisters of Silence be an elite choice for SoB in the next codex? Maybe. GW likes having places for their 30k plastics in 40k (we already have rules, just not rules for Battle Forged games). I think that GW has learned that from AoS that people crave structure.
However rumours from sources with a 100% accuracy rating and GW themselves have confirmed that plastic Sisters of Battle are coming in a few months. No word on a codex release at the same time, though.
JohnHwangDD will tell you endlessly how GW and these rumourmnogers are "tolling the 2-3 sisters players there are", but he's either in denial or trolling (or both).
It's rumors and there was zero confirmation by GW, just a joke that people read too much into. For the hype and accuracy you're claiming, Sisters should be imminent. End of year, 2016, not a nebulous "few months".
We did have one of the most reliable rumour makers saying it was coming as well on the back of the video?
You know I've been noticing an increase of knockoff models for the SoB. So maybe gw noticed this too and are taking action that isnt the threat of a lawsuit. I doubt it though.
What i'd like to see are new hospitaller, dialogous and repentia models. maybe some armor variations to distinguish different units. Maybe a rule that could more effectively counter psykers than just adamantium wil. Also a flyer, terminator/sanguinary guard esque unit, and a new troops choice.
I don't care if a generic living saint option is too much to ask for, I wants one.
Anpu-adom wrote: There is probably too much speculation for the amount of information that we have.
We have the equivalent of a Marvel End Credit scene. "Months yet" is interpreted as GW trying to get ahead of the Rumor Mongers, while making it clear that they aren't the plastic Sisters of Silence seen in the Burning of Prospero.
However rumours from sources with a 100% accuracy rating and GW themselves have confirmed that plastic Sisters of Battle are coming in a few months. No word on a codex release at the same time, though.
JohnHwangDD will tell you endlessly how GW and these rumourmnogers are "tolling the 2-3 sisters players there are", but he's either in denial or trolling (or both).
It's rumors and there was zero confirmation by GW, just a joke that people read too much into. For the hype and accuracy you're claiming, Sisters should be imminent. End of year, 2016, not a nebulous "few months".
We did have one of the most reliable rumour makers saying it was coming as well on the back of the video?
You have an unconfirmed rumor, and the video was clearly making a joke.
However rumours from sources with a 100% accuracy rating and GW themselves have confirmed that plastic Sisters of Battle are coming in a few months. No word on a codex release at the same time, though.
JohnHwangDD will tell you endlessly how GW and these rumourmnogers are "tolling the 2-3 sisters players there are", but he's either in denial or trolling (or both).
It's rumors and there was zero confirmation by GW, just a joke that people read too much into. For the hype and accuracy you're claiming, Sisters should be imminent. End of year, 2016, not a nebulous "few months".
We did have one of the most reliable rumour makers saying it was coming as well on the back of the video?
You have an unconfirmed rumor, and the video was clearly making a joke.
We're all aware of the fact that this is just wishful thinking until we start getting pics or sprues; but this is the most legitimate hope sisters players have ever had. With Deathwatch, Genestealers, Admech and Harlequins being released alongiside a bunch of other cool gak GW is doing, the gag at the end of the Magnus video+ Blood of kittens+the rumoured jan-feb release window making perfect sense(CSM and demon primarch carry through the Jan half year report SOB release would be a guaranteed bump to Q3 earnings without having to really do anything.) Yes it could be a VERY poor taste joke but this isn't for that.. This type of thread is for imagining how awesome a sister's full release would be. ANd arguing about how powerful they should be.
ERJAK wrote: We're all aware of the fact that this is just wishful thinking until we start getting pics or sprues
+1
We're also aware that any new Codex that's released will likely contain none of the things we're hoping for. If you were going to post a comment pointing that out, I've just saved you the trouble.
Grand.Master.Raziel wrote: So, maybe Repentias could have an act of faith that allowed them to assault out of a Sisters of Battle transport. That'd seem to fix their issues.
I would just love to see more plastic models and updated rules, this is actually a good army that needs some TLC.
