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This list began with it's inspiration in sourclams' 900 pt core list (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/236591.page) as well as a rough 2000 pt list Stelek posted on his blog (http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/04/new-guard.html). The much-vaunted Hydras had to go to make room for my extra armor. Also, as much as I wanted to include an Inquisitor and Mystics in the list, when it came down to it, my list was exactly 32 points over 1750 - the exact cost of the Inquisitor and Mystics (Yeah, I know the lascannons on the hulls are running me 30 points, but if I could find an easy 2 points to drop, I'd drop them instead of the Inq+Mystics). If my theories about tank squadrons and ablative tanks are for naught, then I'll be paring down my tanks and adding other HS like Griffons and Hydras. For right now, though, I consider this an interesting test.

Company Command Squad + Astropath + Officer of the Fleet
110 pts

Psychic Battle Squad (7 psykers) + Chimera
145 pts

Veterans w/ 3 Melta
100 pts

Veterans w/ 3 Melta
100 pts

Veterans w/ 3 Melta
100 pts

Leman Russ Executioner w/ Lascannon, Plasma Sponsons, and Camo Netting and Leman Russ w/ Camo Netting
435 pts

Leman Russ Demolisher w/ Lascannon and Plasma Sponsons and Leman Russ
370 pts

Vendettax3 (in Separate FA slots)
390 pts

Total: 750


The rough premise behind this is that the Vets each get a Vendetta. The Vendettas deliver the Vets for heavy tank hunting and they have light tank hunting duties. The Psyker squad moves where necessary to drop leadership for morale and pinning checks made by fire from the Russes. The LRExecutioner Squadron hangs back as a firebase with the naked Russ sitting in cover getting a 3+ cover save. The Command Squad hangs out behind this squadron. The Demolisher and it's little buddy are the more mobile of the two tank squadrons and will maneuver to attack where necessary.

I'm expecting that my first game will be against a buddy's SM, but he might surprise me and bring something else. We'll see.

One bit of advice would be to drop one of the Camo nets from the Executioner Squad and add it to the Demolisher Squad, then sit the Leman Russ' with Camo nets in cover and 50% of the squad is in cover so 3+ save on 2 tank squads, that'll annoy people.

Unfortunately, Camo Netting can only be bought for the entire squadron at 20 pts per tank. Consequently, it's an all or nothing thing - either all your tanks in the squadron have them or all don't. Otherwise I would definitely do that.

It seems like you are wasting some of the goodness that is the CCS. You really want him to be giving orders either to himself or to the veteran squads.

Also the list is lacking anti-horde. You have no cover negating templates in the list.

I think if you are using vendetta's then the squad inside should do the opposite task (think vets with heavy flamer and flamers). Just like if using valkryies you switch up and give the vets anti-tank. This gives you the ability to pop a transport and then shoot whatever just got out. And if you mix it up (say take 2 vendetta's and then 2 valkryies). If you really need to pool all the anti-tank you can shift the squads around to match.

Think about retooling a bit to put 2 vendetta's and 2 valkryies in the list. Make your CCS squad a bit more usefull and give it melta's and air mount it. Leave one of the current vet squads with melta's, and swap the other two for flamer action. Or at the very least try to get the CCS so that he's supporting the vets.

Take 2X PBS, max size if you can find the points. At LD 9, they are hardly solidly reliable, and if you really need that critical LD bomb, you cant leave it to chance. Additionally, I would max it to the 9 psyker size. You will face fearless enemies, and you will need the S9 template, so for 20 pts I think its worth taking the larger size. Also, one PotW attack, and you lose D3 of them anyhow.

As for the vendettas, I know that they are geared for anti-tank, but with the ability to take HB sponsons for only 10 pts, its hard to pass that up. For late-game, when you have neutralized armor, the extra shots will be nice to keep up pressure, and try to finish off your opponent's scoring units.

Warmaster wrote:It seems like you are wasting some of the goodness that is the CCS. You really want him to be giving orders either to himself or to the veteran squads.

Yeah, I recognize that and agree with it. I'm usually a huge proponent of utilizing CCSs for their tank-hunting abilities. I didn't give them meltas for a couple reasons:

1) Because the squad's got the advisors in it, I wanted to try to keep it back out of the action rather than jumping into it,
2) Most of my previous test lists have had only 2 Vet Squads - I'm concerned that that's not enough troops when it comes to taking objectives, so I used the points I would normally spend on a CCS tank hunter unit and used it on them (and gave them the tank-hunting task, as well)

But frankly, getting rid of the 3rd Vet Squad and giving the CCS 4 meltas would free up points to get my Inq+Mystics back.

Warmaster wrote:Also the list is lacking anti-horde. You have no cover negating templates in the list.

I mean, I acknowledge that I don't have any anti-cover, but you don't think that 3 pie plates and 7 S7 blast templates aren't anti-horde?

Warmaster wrote:I think if you are using vendetta's then the squad inside should do the opposite task (think vets with heavy flamer and flamers). Just like if using valkryies you switch up and give the vets anti-tank. This gives you the ability to pop a transport and then shoot whatever just got out. And if you mix it up (say take 2 vendetta's and then 2 valkryies). If you really need to pool all the anti-tank you can shift the squads around to match.

Okay, I didn't understand the logic behind giving the vendetta and it's carried squad opposite tasks at first, but I see what you're getting at. From my perspective, though, I'm not going to be using the melta squads to hunt transports. These guys are for hunting AV13/AV14. The Vendettas are for AV10-12. If the melta squad kill a transport that's AV14, I can almost guarantee that the troops inside are more than a match for flamers/HF (thinking Terminators, naturally). In that case, then having the Vendetta to hose down the troops will be very useful, yes. But in general, my thought is to use the Vendetta to crack open lighter transports and have the Russes pound the contents.

Warmaster wrote:Think about retooling a bit to put 2 vendetta's and 2 valkryies in the list. Make your CCS squad a bit more usefull and give it melta's and air mount it. Leave one of the current vet squads with melta's, and swap the other two for flamer action. Or at the very least try to get the CCS so that he's supporting the vets.

Yeah, I'm thinking that air mounting the CCS with meltas will be the way to go. I just don't see enough horde action in my areas, though, to warrant flamers.

OldskOOl wrote:Take 2X PBS, max size if you can find the points. At LD 9, they are hardly solidly reliable, and if you really need that critical LD bomb, you cant leave it to chance. Additionally, I would max it to the 9 psyker size. You will face fearless enemies, and you will need the S9 template, so for 20 pts I think its worth taking the larger size. Also, one PotW attack, and you lose D3 of them anyhow.

If I was running 1850 or certainly 2000 points, I think adding another PBS would definitely be worth it. But at 1750, and particularly with what I'm wanting to test with the tanks, I don't think I can find the points for them in this list. Again, as I mentioned before, though, if the whole ablative tank thing doesn't work, that'll be freeing up a bunch of points for me.

OldskOOl wrote:As for the vendettas, I know that they are geared for anti-tank, but with the ability to take HB sponsons for only 10 pts, its hard to pass that up. For late-game, when you have neutralized armor, the extra shots will be nice to keep up pressure, and try to finish off your opponent's scoring units.

I see what you're saying - and it's an excellent point - but at 1750, I'm so strapped for points I can't even fit in a 32-point Inq+Mystic unit. I guess I could lose the 2 hull lascannons on the Demolisher and Executioner and do it...

Death By Monkeys wrote:

1) Because the squad's got the advisors in it, I wanted to try to keep it back out of the action rather than jumping into it,
2) Most of my previous test lists have had only 2 Vet Squads - I'm concerned that that's not enough troops when it comes to taking objectives, so I used the points I would normally spend on a CCS tank hunter unit and used it on them (and gave them the tank-hunting task, as well)

But frankly, getting rid of the 3rd Vet Squad and giving the CCS 4 meltas would free up points to get my Inq+Mystics back.

Hmm, yeah, you definitely need to keep at least three troop squads in at 1750. This might sound like a bit of a shocker (at least it is to me). An 80pt penal squad might actually work out with what you are planning. They can outflank in on the sides to hold an objective late game, this would allow you the ability to put some melta on the command squad and then mount them up. Not sure yet if I'm really liking the idea but it's out there .

Warmaster wrote:Also the list is lacking anti-horde. You have no cover negating templates in the list.

Death By Monkeys wrote:
I mean, I acknowledge that I don't have any anti-cover, but you don't think that 3 pie plates and 7 S7 blast templates aren't anti-horde?

Not really . The problem is that you don't have protection for your tanks unless you are parking vendetta's in front of them, which might be something to think about. There's really nothing in your army that is going to force him to bunch up, so he's going to spread way far out and give you 1-2 models per small and 3-4 models per large template that hits, he'll then make it to your tanks in 2-3 turns. Especially something like hormagaunts, you usually only get one turn and then they will be hitting your tanks, they won't kill them but they will stun them and keep them from shooting. But play it out and see how it goes down, I'm not sure what you are usually facing in your neighboorhood .

Death By Monkeys wrote:
Okay, I didn't understand the logic behind giving the vendetta and it's carried squad opposite tasks at first, but I see what you're getting at. From my perspective, though, I'm not going to be using the melta squads to hunt transports. These guys are for hunting AV13/AV14. The Vendettas are for AV10-12. If the melta squad kill a transport that's AV14, I can almost guarantee that the troops inside are more than a match for flamers/HF (thinking Terminators, naturally). In that case, then having the Vendetta to hose down the troops will be very useful, yes. But in general, my thought is to use the Vendetta to crack open lighter transports and have the Russes pound the contents.

Hmm, but if you use the melta's to pop an av 13/14 vehicle. Dropping a multi-laser, and 2 str4 large blasts on what spills out could actually help. Even hitting marines that got dumped out will net you kills, and against th+ss termies it's more about volume that quality. Plus people will usually place to use their hulls as terrain blockers (unless you are removing them). I think you'll definitely end up with a ton of blown up transports, but it'll probably start to get hard to get to the juicy underside.


I'm running into the same exact problem you are. There's too much good stuff in the dex and you seem to run out of points real quick. The only way I see to peel some points out of your list would be by dropping both of the lascannons, and your camo-nets. I think people are going to have to do a lot of tweaking to get lists that work for them.

Are you set on using vets? This was a last minute thought of mine.
1 PCS w/ 4 melta guns
Infantry squad w/ flamer
Infantry squad w/ flamer
20 Conscripts or 10 penal troopers.
And 4 melta guns for your CCS comes out to exactly 3 hundred points (which is how much your 3 squads of vets cost).

Just something else to ponder. Not sure if I like it or not, but it would give you some bodies to put in front of your tanks, and keep all 3 vendetta's filled.

Hey Death!

Took me forever to get here. Sorry bout that.

I like the raw materials for sure. I think you might have a couple holes though.

I currently believe (as of 4/17/09) that IG armies need either AC/plas line squads or hydras. I admittedly haven't tried 3x vendettas though. And I've only played half a dozen IG games. I see how your list differs from Stelek's and I like where you are going, because I really do tink IG lose most of their games because they get totally boxed in by aggressive armies. Outflanking valk/vendettas break that pparadigm. I can't even figure out why steleks list included an astropath, other than to play the 'i always get to go first' game.

I agree with warmaster about getting some redundancy in those choirs.

I guess, ultimately, making russes more survivable versus shooting isn't necessary. No one ever drops my russes from long range, and with a mobile list like this one, you can pick off meltas as they try to close in.

I would suggest dropping the demolishers, keeping only a single executioner, adding an eradicator, a second choir, add 2x hydras and swith two of your vendettas into pod valkyries.

The one idea that has been floating around that I'm unexcited about is the mixed russ trick. They die badly to CC, and the camo nets and ablative tank doesn't really help there. front and side shots from longer ranges just don't really give me any trouble.

Good list however, I don't mean to imply that it won't just wreck more elite armies like lash and nob bikers. I think a good old fashioned loota/shoota/kans list might be able to take you apart though.

I also think that CCS can do double duty as an advisor delivery system and a self-issuing BiD 4x melta haymaker.

Shep wrote:Hey Death!

Took me forever to get here. Sorry bout that.

I like the raw materials for sure. I think you might have a couple holes though.

I currently believe (as of 4/17/09) that IG armies need either AC/plas line squads or hydras. I admittedly haven't tried 3x vendettas though. And I've only played half a dozen IG games. I see how your list differs from Stelek's and I like where you are going, because I really do tink IG lose most of their games because they get totally boxed in by aggressive armies. Outflanking valk/vendettas break that pparadigm. I can't even figure out why steleks list included an astropath, other than to play the 'i always get to go first' game.

And I don't understand why he's advocating MoOs and Vanquishers.

Shep wrote:I agree with warmaster about getting some redundancy in those choirs.

I guess, ultimately, making russes more survivable versus shooting isn't necessary. No one ever drops my russes from long range, and with a mobile list like this one, you can pick off meltas as they try to close in.

I would suggest dropping the demolishers, keeping only a single executioner, adding an eradicator, a second choir, add 2x hydras and swith two of your vendettas into pod valkyries.

Hm. You suggesting squadroning the Executioner and the Eradicator?

Shep wrote:The one idea that has been floating around that I'm unexcited about is the mixed russ trick. They die badly to CC, and the camo nets and ablative tank doesn't really help there. front and side shots from longer ranges just don't really give me any trouble.

See, that's what I'm really interested to test. I mean, everyone knows that Russes are susceptible to CC. I'm curious to see just how badly they do die to CC while in squadrons.

Shep wrote:Good list however, I don't mean to imply that it won't just wreck more elite armies like lash and nob bikers. I think a good old fashioned loota/shoota/kans list might be able to take you apart though.

I also think that CCS can do double duty as an advisor delivery system and a self-issuing BiD 4x melta haymaker.

Thanks! I'm thinking the CCS is getting some meltas for the list (it's an easy sell - I wanted them in there in the first place!)