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In response to the Movie Marine list published in White Dwarf and recently posted here on Dakka, I've written an Eldar version. After all, 7+ foot tall, genetically-engineered, brainwashed monsters of death and mayhem deserve to be put in their place by an ancient warrior race that has existed since the dawn of time. Drawing inspiration from Pitch Black, The Matrix, X-Men, and others as well as some of the wish-listing in the Proposed Rules forum for Eldar in the 5th edition, I posit that the Exarchs of the Eldar are just as capable of cinematic action as their Imperial counterparts, perhaps more so.

Exarchs live the Path of the Warrior to the point that all other lifepaths are lost to them, in an attempt to achieve perfection in the art of dealing death in a specific manner: by blade, shuriken, flame, from afar, or near. They are the best at their chosen method of combat, quite often to the exclusion of other martial disciplines.

Like marines they live for centuries, but unlike those soldiers of the Imperium, death is not their end. To the Exarchs of the Bloody Handed God death is the goal of life, a transition from existing as direct agent of mortality to being an indirect one. Unlike other Eldar, the bright soul energy of the Exarch is not allow to find solace in the Infinity Circuit of a craftworld. Instead it becomes trapped in the armor they wore in life and passes the skills and knowledge gleaned from centuries of combat and warfare directly to their successor.

The weapons and armor of the Exarchs have existed for millenia, artifacts of power and majesty cared for as though they were living, sentient beings as well. Indeed, some claim they have a life of their own, continuing to take lives after their wielder has laid down his own. The Imperium of Man has been unable to divine the method of their creation or even use, but the people of the Eldar race know that only a mind so in harmony with destruction as to be lost to it are capable of wielding these instruments of doom.

Finally, the alien grace and speed of the Eldar are raised to levels superior to even the superhuman Adeptus Astartes. Blindingly fast and so agile that Marines look like toddling children by comparison. This is balanced by the fact that Eldar are not as stalwart as a Marine, nor as large, strong, or heavily armored. The Movie Marine could easily rip an Eldar in half with his bare hands, but an Exarch could just as easily evade the Marine, setting up a precise and graceful series of attacks to remove the Marine's head from his shoulders.

This list was designed with the Movie Marine list in mind and for use against armies of about 1500 points.

Force Organisation Chart
HQ 1 Phoenix Lord

Elite 0-1 Howling Banshee 0-1 Striking Scorpion

Troops 0-6 Dire Avengers

Fast Attack 0-1 Warp Spider 0-1 Silver Spear 0-1 Swooping Hawk

Heavy Support 0-1 Dark Reaper 0-1 Fire Dragon


Unit Statistics

Phoenix Lord 250 points
WS10 BS10 S5 T5 W4 I9 A6 Ld10 Sv2+

All Phoenix Lords are Fearless, Eternal Warriors, and have Disciples (making units of their Aspect Fearless). They are equipped with their own wargear and Exarch powers:

Asurmen: Wrist mounted Avenger Shuriken Catapults (Assault 12) and the Sword of Asur (as Diresword but allows re-roll of misses in close combat). Asurmen has Defend, Bladestorm, and Battlefate (giving him a 3+ re-rollable Invulnerable save).

Jain Zar: Banshee Mask, Executioner, and the Silent Death (Triskele with S6). Jain Zar has Acrobatic, War Shout, and Furious Charge.

Baharroth: Swooping Hawk Wings, Swooping Hawk Grenade Pack, Plasma Grenades, Haywire Grenades, power weapon, and Hawk's Talon. Baharroth has Intercept, Skyleap, and Hit and Run.

Karandras: Scorpions Bite (Mandiblasters that provide +2 A instead of +1), Scorpion Chainsword, Scorpion's Claw, and Plasma Grenades. Karandras has the Shadowstrike, Stalker, and Stealth powers.

Fuegan: Fire Pike, Melta Bombs, Fire Axe (+1 S, ignores armor saves, and rolls 2d+6 for armor penetration). Fuegan has Tank Hunter, Crack Shot, and Feel No Pain.

Maugan Ra: The Maugetar (Range 36” S8 AP4 Assault 8 Pinning, Rending, with built-in Executioner). Maugan Ra has Crack Shot, Fast Shot, and Acute Senses.

Howling Banshee 130 points
WS6 BS5 S 4 T4 W2 I7 A4 Ld9 Sv3+
The Howling Banshee Exarch has the War Shout and Acrobatic Exarch Powers. With Banshee Mask, Shuriken Pistol, and power weapon. May replace power weapon with an Executioner for +10 points or a Triskele at +5 points. Alternately, may replace both power weapon and pistol with mirrorswords for +10 points.

Striking Scorpion 130 points
WS6 BS5 S4 T4 W2 I7 A4 Ld9 Sv3+
The Striking Scorpion Exarch has the Shadowstrike and Stalker Exarch powers. With Mandiblaster, Chainsword, Shuriken Pistol, and Plasma Grenades. May replace Shuriken Pistol with a Scorpion's Claw at +15 points, his Chainsword for a Biting Blade for +5 points, or both with Chainsabres at +5 points.

Dire Avenger 120 points
WS6 BS6 S4 T4 W2 I7 A4 Ld9 Sv3+
The Dire Avenger Exarch has the Defend and Bladestorm abilities. With Shuriken Avenger Catapult and Plasma Grenades. May purchase an additional Avenger Shuriken Catapult (making it Assault 12) at +5 points or replace it with a Diresword and Shuriken Pistol at +10 points or with a power weapon and Shimmershield at +15 points.

Warp Spider 150 points
WS6 BS6 S4 T4 W2 I7 A4 Ld9 Sv3+
The Warp Spider Exarch has the Surprise Assault and Withdraw Exarch powers. With Warp Spider Jump Pack and Deathspinner. May add an additional Deathspinner (making it an Assault 4 weapon) for +5 points or replace his Deathspinner with a Spinneret Rifle for +5 points. May also be equipped with Powerblades at +10 points.

Silver Spear 175 points
WS6 BS6 S4 T4 W2 I7 A4 Ld9 Sv3+
The Silver Spear Exarch has the Skilled Rider and Withdraw Exarch powers. With Eldar Jetbike (armed with Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults) and Laser Lance. May replace the Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults on the bike for a single Shuriken Cannon at +15 points and may replace his Laser Lance for a Power Weapon for free or a Star Lance at +15 points.

Swooping Hawk 150 points
WS5 BS6 S4 T4 W2 I7 A4 Ld9 Sv3+
The Swooping Hawk Exarch has the Skyleap and Intercept Exarch powers. With Lasblaster, Plasma Grenades, Haywire Grenades, Swooping Hawk Grenade Pack, and Swooping Hawk Wings. May be armed with a power weapon for +10 points or replace his Lasblaster for a Hawk's Talon at +10 points or a Sunrifle at +15 points.

Fire Dragon 120 points
WS5 BS6 S4 T4 W2 I7 A4 Ld9 Sv3+
The Fire Dragon Exarch has the Tank Hunters and Crack Shot Exarch powers. With Fusion Gun and Melta Bombs. May replace his Fusion Gun for a Firepike at +10 points or a Dragon's Breath Flamer for free.

Dark Reaper 175 points
WS5 BS6 S4 T4 W2 I7 A4 Ld9 Sv3+
The Dark Reaper Exarch has the Fast Shot and Crack Shot Exarch powers. With Reaper Launcher. May replace the Reaper Launcher with a Shuriken Cannon for free, Eldar Missile Launcher at +10 points, or Tempest Launcher at +20 points.


Cinematic Weapon Capabilities
Shuriken Pistol: Range 12” S5 AP4 Assault 4 Rending

Plasma Grenades: Range 6” S8 AP3 Assault 1 Blast, Pinning

Banshee Mask: in the first round of an assault, the model has Initiative 10 and negates any bonus conferred by cover or grenades.

Power Weapon: attacks made with a power weapon ignore armor saves and wounds inflicted are counted twice for determining the outcome of an assault.

Executioner: a power weapon that is made for slicing through tough armor, adds +2 S and wounds inflicted are counted twice for determining the outcome of an assault.

Triskele: a triskele may be thrown or used as a power weapon (as above). When thrown, it counts as a shooting attack with the following profile: Range 12” S4 AP2 Assault 6 Rending.

Mirrorswords: a set of power weapons that provide +2 A instead of the usual +1 for an extra weapon and wounds inflicted are counted twice for determining the outcome of an assault.

Mandiblaster: provides +1 A

Chainsword: adds +1 S to the model's attacks and wounds inflicted are counted twice for determining the outcome of an assault.

Scorpion's Claw: may be used as both an Avenger Shuriken Catapult and a Powerfist in the same round. Normal rules for Powerfists apply, although the Scorpion's Claw strikes at I3 instead of 1.

Biting Blade: a two-handed chainsword that adds and additional +1 S for each hit scored. Example: an Exarch that scores four hits will strike at S9. Wounds inflicted are counted twice for determining the outcome of an assault.

Chainsabres: a pair of chainswords that house shuriken pistols in their gauntlets. They may be used in the Shooting Phase as a Shuriken Pistol with Assault 8 and in the Assault Phase to provide +1 S, +1 Attack, and can re-roll all failed to-hit and wound rolls. Wounds inflicted are counted twice for determining the outcome of an assault.

Avenger Shuriken Catapult: Range 24” S5 AP4 Assault 6 Rending

Diresword: as Power Weapon above. In addition, if a model suffers any unsaved wounds from a diresword, a Leadership test must be made at a -1 penalty per wound. If failed, the victim dies immediately and is removed regardless of remaining wounds.

Shimmershield: An advanced forcefield that protects the wearer with a 3+ Invulnerable save.

Warp Spider Jumppack: models equipped with Warp Spider Jump Packs move as jump infantry and if unengaged may make an additional jump infantry move in the Assault Phase.

Deathspinner: Range: Template S7 AP6 Assault 2 Rending

Spinnerette Rifle: Range 24” S7 AP1 Assault 2 Pinning, the spinnerette Rifle's rigid strand of wire tears holes through everything in it's firing path until it either misses or fails to penetrate the armor of a vehicle or kill a non-vehicle model. Subtract one from the Strength for every vehicle or Monstrous Creature it hits on the way. Against vehicles, roll 2d for penetration and select the higher roll.

Powerblades: count as having two power weapons

Eldar Jetbike: Eldar Jetbikes provide +1 Toughness, are considered Relentless, and may move 12” in the Movement phase over all models and terrain freely per normal jetbike rules. They may roll 3d6 when making fall back moves and may move 12” in the Assault Phase even if they don't assault. They may Turboboost as normal and still move in the Assault Phase, but may not run in the Shooting Phase.

Twin Linked Shuriken Catapults: as Avenger Shuriken Catapults, but may re-roll missed hit rolls.

Laser Lance: On any turn in which they initiate an assault, the model equipped with the Laser Lance counts as having a S6 power weapon. They may also be used in the shooting phase: Range 12” S6 AP 3 Assault 2 Lance

Shuriken Cannon: Range 36” S8 AP4 Assault 8 Rending.

Star Lance: as a Laser Lance but more powerful, counting as S8 in all regards.

Lasblaster: Range 36” S4 AP4 Assault 6.

Haywire Grenades: a model attacking with these grenades may only make a single attack against a vehicle. If it hits, roll a d6 to determine effect: 1-4=glancing hit, 5-6=penetrating hit.

Swooping Hawk Wings: moves as though equipped with a jet pack and may use the Deep Strike rules to deploy in missions that allow it.

Swooping Hawk Grenade Pack: when using the Deep Strike ability, resolve an attack on an enemy model anywhere on the table. Assume the Swooping Hawk has line of sight to the target. Range n/a S5 AP4 Barrage, Large Blast.

Hawk's Talon: a more powerful version of the lasblaster; Range 36” S6 AP4 Assault 8.

Sunrifle: a rifle-sized scatterlaser; Range 36” S4 AP4 Assault 12 Pinning.

Fusion Gun: Range 24” S10 AP1 Assault 2 Melta

Melta Bombs: Range 6” S8 AP1 Blast Assault 1 Melta

Fire Pike: Range 36” S10 AP1 Assault 1 Melta

Dragon's Breath Flamer: When fired at a non-vehicle unit in range, every model in the unit in the firer's line of sight is hit. Targets hit are wounded on a roll of 4+ and if a 6 is rolled to wound, they get no armor save against the attack. Because the flame continues to burn, multiwound models wounded by the flamer must roll an armor save at the start of each of their following turns. If the pass the fire goes out and they do not need to roll again. If they fail, they will be wounded again on a 4+. Targets receive no cover saves against a flamer. Flamers will only affect open-topped vehicles in which case each model in the unit takes a penetrating hit, unmodified if the target is obscured or moving fast. Range 24” S* AP4 Assault 1

Reaper Launcher: Range 60” S6 AP2 Heavy 4.

Eldar Missile Launcher: may fire using either of two profiles in a given turn – super-plasma and super-krak. Super-plasma is Range 50” S5 AP4 Assault 2 Large Blast, Pinning. Super-Krak is Range 50” S10 AP1 Assault 2.

Tempest Launcher: Range 48” S5 AP2 Heavy 3, Blast, Barrage.


Special Rules

Force of One: Each model functions as an individual infantry unit. Each is treated as a separate unit for deployment and any mix of models may ride in a transport. Some may disembark while others remain embarked and vice versa.

Quicksilver: All Eldar have the ability to Fleet, although Exarchs are capable of incredible speed on the attack. All Exarchs except Dark Reapers, Shining Spears, and Warp Spiders (whose equipment is too bulky to move with such alacrity or use other methods of movement) may move d6” in the Shooting Phase after resolving shooting attacks. If the Exarch chooses to Run instead of shoot, he may roll 2d6 and choose the more favorable result. Also, the Exarch may move 6” in the Assault Phase, even if he doesn't assault.

Exarch Armor: Exarch Armor provides a 3+ Armor Save and a 4+ Invulnerable Save. If they take an Armor Save against an attack, they may re-roll a failed save.

Alien Grace: If an Exarch does not shoot in the Shooting Phase or assault in the Assault Phase, he may evade all attacks made against him in the following opponent's turn by making an Initiative test. He may be ignored by the enemy for the purposes of determining target priority and will not make attacks in the opponent's Assault Phase.


So that's it in a nutshell. Comments, criticisms, and recommendations encouraged and appreciated!

4 days, 35 views and no replies? Hmmm... must not be that good.

Gavin Thorne wrote:
Phoenix Lord 250 points
WS10 BS10 S5 T5 W4 I9 A6 Ld10 Sv2+

All Phoenix Lords are Fearless, Eternal Warriors, and have Disciples (making units of their Aspect Fearless). They are equipped with their own wargear and Exarch powers:

Asurmen: Wrist mounted Avenger Shuriken Catapults (Assault 12) and the Sword of Asur (as Diresword but allows re-roll of misses in close combat). Asurmen has Defend, Bladestorm, and Battlefate (giving him a 3+ re-rollable Invulnerable save).

Okay.. I skipped through most of your writings & came to the first unit entry, as most people would. Do I presume this is what you intend to replace the current HQs & aspect warriors in the current eldar codex?

I reply with LOLWUT!

250pts, T5, 4W, 2+/3++ unkillable monstrosity. Not many points more than the standard options. They are expensive because they are designed as force multiplyers, not one-man-armies.
The fact that you can hide this unit in a squad (a squad that gets made fearless) makes this kinda idea even more broken.

Assault 12 shuriken catapult? Lol.. WS10 BS10 are reserved for deities or units that are bestowed gifts from the gods.

6A's..? etc etc,

Im sorry, before I even bother reading the rest, ive read this.. and its all maddness. If you do intend to suggest people use these in standard 40K games (and not some form of single HQ deathmatches) then theres little point me continuing to read as its all auto-broke.

Razerous wrote:

Gavin Thorne wrote:
Phoenix Lord 250 points
WS10 BS10 S5 T5 W4 I9 A6 Ld10 Sv2+

All Phoenix Lords are Fearless, Eternal Warriors, and have Disciples (making units of their Aspect Fearless). They are equipped with their own wargear and Exarch powers:

Asurmen: Wrist mounted Avenger Shuriken Catapults (Assault 12) and the Sword of Asur (as Diresword but allows re-roll of misses in close combat). Asurmen has Defend, Bladestorm, and Battlefate (giving him a 3+ re-rollable Invulnerable save).

Okay.. I skipped through most of your writings & came to the first unit entry, as most people would. Do I presume this is what you intend to replace the current HQs & aspect warriors in the current eldar codex?

I reply with LOLWUT!

250pts, T5, 4W, 2+/3++ unkillable monstrosity. Not many points more than the standard options. They are expensive because they are designed as force multiplyers, not one-man-armies.
The fact that you can hide this unit in a squad (a squad that gets made fearless) makes this kinda idea even more broken.

Assault 12 shuriken catapult? Lol.. WS10 BS10 are reserved for deities or units that are bestowed gifts from the gods.

6A's..? etc etc,

Im sorry, before I even bother reading the rest, ive read this.. and its all maddness. If you do intend to suggest people use these in standard 40K games (and not some form of single HQ deathmatches) then theres little point me continuing to read as its all auto-broke.

Sorry Razerous, you've completely missed the point of the list. It's meant to be an Eldar version of the Movie Marine List. These are NOT unit upgrades, they ARE the units. Single models. Read the entry before you judge - remember what they say about assumptions.

Holy crap Raz, read the entire post before trying to start a flame war.

To Gavin, I've never seen the movie marines, so I don't really have a reference point from which to judge these Eldar. I will say, I think they may be too expensive seeing as how enough Lascannons could just start ID'ing them all.

I thought about giving everyone Eternal Warrior, but the original movie marines didn't have it either. The only one who does are the Phoenix Lords, who have it in their "normal" incarnations anyway.

I based the point cost of each unit on the Autarch (who has better stats in most cases) using base equipment costs listed on his entry. The exarchs are fully kitted with their powers (bought at list price), but have the option to upgrade their weapons.

I don't have the file in front of me, but I think Movie Marines have the basic profile WS5 BS5 S6 T6 W2 I5 A2 (or 3) Ld8(or 9?) and cost 100 points each. The Sarge is WS9 with other stat buffs. The Dude is the elite choice - another stat-buffed marine. They also get either a Rhino or a Razorback with similarly monstrous weaponry.

The bolters are range 36" S6 AP4 Assault 4 Rending. The missile launcher and flamer are pretty close to the stats I provide for the EML and Dragon's Breath - the flamer hits every visible model in a unit, the launcher uses large blast, etc. The ten marines (Sarge, Dude, 6 Marines, Flamer Guy, and Missile Guy) plus a Rhino ends up being exactly 1500 points.

I followed a pretty simple formula in most cases, especially with the basic equipment: +2 S, -1 AP, Rending for shuri's, adjust # shots to match equivalents in the marine list but with a +1-2 more since the eldar weapons have always fired more shots than marines. I also added some Fluff back into the list by giving Spiders templates and gave all units Fleet + Extra Move in Shooting (with restrictions).

These individual units are meant to be monsters since you're only fielding a handful or two at a time. That being said, the reason I posted the list was to help fine tune them and make sure that I wasn't going crazy. I appreciate fair and balanced input - positive or negative - but make sure you read the "article" first.

What can I say, i like it, in the context which it is written... Being Movie Eldar. I might even be tempted to fling up a Movie chaos marine thingie (if it doesn't exist yet). I think it's good!

All of them should be at least WS BS 6, and symmetrical there regardless of aspects.

WS or BS 5 is lower than they were in their old rules!

Since this is a 'movie' list, you could make the Diresword more powerful. Why not just kill the model it wounds outright, no save (even invulnerable) allowed? Suits Asurmen, at least.

Razerous wrote:Lol.. WS10 BS10 are reserved for deities or units that are bestowed gifts from the gods.

Ironically, that's exactly what Phoenix Lords are...

EDIT: argh, duplicate post

Well Daba, like I mentioned above, I wanted to make the list comparable to the Movie Marines list, not go too overboard with the Exarchy goodness.

I also took some direction from our 5th Eldar "wishlist" - the things we'd like to see changed about the current Eldar Codex. One of those suggestions, quite accurate in my mind, is that shooty aspects should have a higher BS and lower WS while assaulty aspects are vice-versa. The balanced aspects (Avengers, Spiders, and Silver Spears) should have even stats.

I thought the Diresword entry was pretty powerful already. The reasoning is that the original entry calls for a Ld test for each wound suffered. For units with high Ld stats like Marines and Necrons, they're only going to fail that roll (someone correct me if I'm wrong here) about 7% of the time against Ld 10. Cinematic Asurmen gets 6 attacks - all are likely to hit and against T4 about 4 will wound. Suddenly the model's chances of resisting the diresword are significantly reduced. As for Asurmen being more powerful - I dunno - maybe instead of to-hits in CC he can re-roll to-wounds. That would increase the effectiveness of his Diresword attacks, but I'm concerned that makes him too strong.

I don't think that Razerous' observation of the WS10/BS10 on Phoenix Lords is out of line, honestly. I thought about making them 9's in keeping with the Movie Marine Sergeant. However, they're not a Marine Sergeant - they are the immortal Phoenix Lords that have been around since shortly after the birth of Slaanesh, constantly seeking battle. That's gotta count for something. Applying the above recommendation concerning their aspect's focus might go something like this: WS 7 BS 10 for Maugan Ra, Fuegan and Baharroth; WS10 BS 7 for Jain Zar and Karandras; Asurmen is a more balanced WS 9 BS 9. Honestly, besides the to-hit re-roll what are they benefitting from once they get above 7 anyway?

Personally, I don't think Exarch current statlines are up to their fluff - I would advocate 6/6 in the actual game. Movie, I wouldn't put it below 7/7 or even 8/8 compared to Marines. Actually, each should be far better than the Marine Sergeant in that list.

The Aspects represent a whole training even though they are focussed. WS and BS must be equal to each other for all, IMO.

Phoenix Lords are described as demigods in the Eldar Codex. If the Marine Sergeant is 9/9, they should be 20/20 though the stats only go to 10...

In terms of Legendary, we're talking Primarch legendary (and there's a case PL should be better fighters than them). I'm not sure movie stats would even go that high.

I would rename the Phoenix Lord as an Exarch (or Menshad Korum) keeping WS/BS10 compared with the Marine Sergeant; then the others can just be handpicked Aspect Warriors.

This is looking good actually. But I agree some of the stats need a little tweaking. Banshees should be WS 7 at least, and Dark Reapers BS7

Would you increase the point value for the banshees or reapers if the WS/BS were raised? This increase would give them the high skill re-roll for misses...

Daba's idea of making the phoenix lords exarchs and the others aspect warriors isn't bad, but I like the idea of an elite cadre of exarchs chosen by a phoenix lord - the best of the best so to speak.

Gavin Thorne wrote:Would you increase the point value for the banshees or reapers if the WS/BS were raised? This increase would give them the high skill re-roll for misses...

Daba's idea of making the phoenix lords exarchs and the others aspect warriors isn't bad, but I like the idea of an elite cadre of exarchs chosen by a phoenix lord - the best of the best so to speak.

The banshees are alright, the Reapers might need a little points up. +1 WS is a much less useful Upgrade than +1BS (Since WS7 is still hit on a 4+ by WS4, all you get is you are now hit on a 5+ by WS3).

If you want, you could give the Banshees preferred Enemy (since they are just THAT good in CC) and WS7 and up the costs a bit.

Gavin Thorne wrote:Would you increase the point value for the banshees or reapers if the WS/BS were raised? This increase would give them the high skill re-roll for misses...

Daba's idea of making the phoenix lords exarchs and the others aspect warriors isn't bad, but I like the idea of an elite cadre of exarchs chosen by a phoenix lord - the best of the best so to speak.

High skill re-roll? for BS, I don't think it matters much. Once you're at 5, you're missing 1/6 of the time, at 6 it's increased by a miniscule amount; from 6/36 to 5/36 chance of missing and so on.

WS isn't that important. Most of the time, you're hitting on 3 and taking a hit back on 4 all the way up until WS9.

I've been mulling over the PL's Disciple ability since I wrote the article. A lot of folks would like to see the PL's allow their aspects to be taken as troops.

I was thinking of letting the PL allow his aspect to take up three troop slots on the FOC. How do you feel about that option?

I love this.

I also love how Razerous hasn't returned after being burnt.

Keep it up Gav, love it!

Gavin,

So I'm a big fan of the movie marine list because it shows how marines are described in the fluff in the actual game. Your list isn't at all fluffy in my opinion. Its just crazy powers (abet cool ones) don't get me wrong. I just think you are looking in the wrong place.
The marine list is all about the normal space marine and how bad ass a single tactical squad is. No specialized assault troops, vets or terminators. Its a plain vanilla tac squad with missile launcher flamer rhino and razorback. Making an exarch council seems just silly to me.

I'll post my reasons why this list doesn't feel right.

1) The movie list is supposed to be the representation of a single squad of space marines yours has models all exarchs from 9 different units. I mean even in the eldar codex it says most craft worlds don't have every aspect represented. So it doesn't really fit in. I think your stat lines are fine though.
2) Phoenix lords come on?
3) The special rules are there to be interesting not to be confusing you have more than 20 special rules included in this army and even more weapon rules. Its a bit much and way to confusing for a fun themed fluff army. Make it simple.
4) you are thinking to much like a 40k player and not a movie director. Its supposed to be movie like.
5) Alien grace is to confusing and not fun. Fun is the major factor here.
6) Remember no matter how good any basic model is in the game they will NEVER be nearly as good as a space marine. Its the basic rule of 40k universe Nothing even comes close. single marines beat farseers, lictors, daemons warbosses. Nothing else in the universe comes close with the exception of CSM. What 1 space marine can do it usually takes 5 - 10 of anything else to accomplish even eldar.

Now for my constructive side.

1) Make the list themed as a squad of dire avengers (troops) led by an exarch (HQ) with an optional ranger or warlock tagging along (Elites) A wave serpent as a transport (Fast attack) and up to 2 guardian heavy weapon specialists (Heavy). Not only does this work allot better fluff wise its easier to handle.
2) Think like a movie director instead of a 40k player. Perfect example is the bladestorm power. From a movie perspective I see it more like when the model with this power charges or is charged they can fire a hail of bullets into their opponents before combat begins. Oftentimes laying waste to whole units before even combat ensues! Next turn the weapon has to be reloaded.
3) I like quicksilver but either make it everyone can shoot and move 2D6
4) I think the Avenger Shuriken Catapults shouldn't be rending.
5) Just give exarch a simple power weapon that double his attacks + the shimmer shield or the diresword not both. Because even in the game the exarch cannot have it.


Hope you find this helpful and not flaming good luck with it though.

@ Tek: Thanks for the compliment! I'd actually prefer if Raz was included in the conversation, if he'll join us. I appreciate his feedback on other forum posts as insightful. As he indicated in his post, he skipped over my introduction that explained the list, a faux pas on his part, but not one that would remove his participation altogether. I admit that if I read this army list, I'd freak out if I thought you wanted to field 6 units of 5-10 WS6 BS6 S4 T4 W2 I7 A4 Ld9 Sv3+ Dire Avengers, but I provide context for the list.

@Dumplingman: This is the kind of feedback I'm looking for. Thank you! Do you mind if I compose a rebuttal? I certainly hope not...

The marine list is all about the normal space marine and how bad ass a single tactical squad is. No specialized assault troops, vets or terminators. Its a plain vanilla tac squad with missile launcher flamer rhino and razorback.

This is true and part of the elegance of the Movie Marine list; the equivalent to the basic marine is the aspect warrior, which serve in battle in groups that work in conjunction with one another. I guess you could lower the stats and field small units of, say, 3 aspect warriors per squad to fulfill this requirement. I don't think it's a silly idea - I wouldn't have written it if I did - but in terms of "Movie Eldar" I think we need to look at a different flavor of movies than the marines list was inspired by.

The concept that I was drawing inspiration from is the Biel Tan Court of the Young King, represented by the leaders of the Aspect Shrines. To match the fluff of that idea, the Avatar would be their HQ. I didn't want to use the avatar because he's a MC (I find it unusual that he's used as a HQ selection in the codex list honestly, I feel he's more of an elite choice) and felt that who better to lead the aspects than the founders of their shrines, particularly for a Cinematic list.

3) The special rules are there to be interesting not to be confusing you have more than 20 special rules included in this army and even more weapon rules. Its a bit much and way to confusing for a fun themed fluff army. Make it simple.

4) you are thinking to much like a 40k player and not a movie director. Its supposed to be movie like.

There's only a handful of rules used in addition to the current Eldar codex and the weapons are the same weapons with different profiles. I could eliminate the extra weapon options completely by making them aspects instead of exarchs - as was recommended above - that would simplify that issue, but lose some of the flavor of the list's theme. I wouldn't mind heading that direction if anyone has some ideas on changing the concept to better suit it.

5) Alien grace is to confusing and not fun. Fun is the major factor here.

In what way did you find it confusing? I used the Harlequin Shadowseer's Veil power as a base and added the stipulation that in order to use it, the model could not have made any attacks in it's player turn and must pass an Initiative test.

I could clarify the verbage: "At the end of the Eldar Player's turn, if a model did not shoot or participate in an Assault, they may make an Initiative test to avoid all enemy attacks in the opponent's next turn. He may be ignored by the enemy for the purposes of determining target priority and will not make attacks in the opponent's Assault Phase."

I agree that rules should be simple and fun to play with and special rules like these should provide exceptions that are clear and easy to understand. I added this rule to give the Exarchs a bit more resilience and let them get where they were going without being slaughtered getting there since they have no transports. The movie marines get stunt men (a little silly, but the list is meant to be silly, so it's cool) and I didn't want to steal that thunder.

Remember no matter how good any basic model is in the game they will NEVER be nearly as good as a space marine. Its the basic rule of 40k universe Nothing even comes close. single marines beat farseers, lictors, daemons warbosses. Nothing else in the universe comes close with the exception of CSM. What 1 space marine can do it usually takes 5 - 10 of anything else to accomplish even eldar.

Again, this is true. This is why there's more options for the FOC in the Eldar list than the marine list. They can get up to 10 models, this list gets up to 14. As mentioned above, I can always make them Aspect Warriors, increase their numbers, lower their stats. It's a valid point. Personally, I like the idea of exarchs working for the benefit of their craftworld in a small, elite, high-powered unit. As an alternate concept, I could make a list of just Phoenix Lords using their current stats. Of course, I could just play the Codex Eldar list.

@ Gavin


I can see what you mean by not using the avatar, it would be way to much. ( I stillwish you could take 2 avatars elf zilla inc!!)

As for your reason behind choosing the court of the young king I can't disagree with your reasoning I just felt it was a little to high a power level for a list like this. As for lowering the stat lines, I would have to disagree. Exarchs are bad ass and should be represented as so.

As for the special rules and weapons I do have some ideas. At least by looking at things from the movie marine list. I just feel that using existing rules for something this epic is honestly selling them short. Its a great place to use creativity. Giving a few army wide special rules to the exarchs like alien grace and quick silver is a good start. But instead of giving them all the "Exarch powers" give him each a super version of one. Here are some ones I thought of, blatantly over power powered but hey what isn't in a list like this! Here are some special rule ideas.

Warcry- Place the 5" in blast centered around the banshee this does not scatter. Every enemy unit underneath must take a leadership test or be pinned from fear. -1 leadership penalty for each model under the blast past the first.

Shadow Strike- The scorpion is so sneaky he can deploy anywhere on the battlefield provided he is 1" from an enemy model.

As for the weapons I acn see what what you mean both about how it would lose flavor without the options and how it would be much easier. I have maybe a compromise, why not just have them all equipped equivalently to the phoenix lords. (Dark Reaper and Firedragon are easy though so they shouldn't be a problem. Oh and finally please give the warpspider back his template!

Hope this was helpful




(Alien grace) I don't know for some reason your wording now is much better for alien grace it was a little convoluted for me before. i can be slow sometimes.

Here's one for Banshee Masks. This isn't too over the top as it was actually the rules for it in between 1st and 2nd edition.

Any unit charged by a model with a Banshee Mask is WS0 until the end turn.

Daba wrote:Here's one for Banshee Masks. This isn't too over the top as it was actually the rules for it in between 1st and 2nd edition.

Any unit charged by a model with a Banshee Mask is WS0 until the end turn.

Well WS0 means they cannot attack back, that's a bit OP imo. Perhaps making it so enemies need 6's to hit on the turn they charge.

Dumplingman, I commend you for your suggestions.

One of the problems with equipping them to match the Phoenix Lords is that it leaves the Spiders and Spears out. Of course, I can just make them up... I'll consider that.

I like the superpower idea, especially the Banshee's Warcry. I agree with Gwar that WS0 is a bit OTT, but WS1 achieves similar effect to needing 6's to hit. I like the pinning idea too, but I didn't think pinning had any effect on models in CC?

The Deathspinner listed above: Range: Template S7 AP6 Assault 2 Rending

When I started playing 40K again, I felt cheated that they took the deathspinner templates away. They would be so awesome for a JSJ unit that softens a target before it gets nailed by an assaulter.

I think giving the Silver Spear's weapon the ability to hit all units in a 6" or 12" line would be pretty cool, a kind of Lance alternative. A special ability like being able to make an attack against all units the SS passes over would be neat too.

What about Dire Avengers? Fire Dragons? Warp Spiders? Any suggestions?

Gavin Thorne wrote:I like the superpower idea, especially the Banshee's Warcry. I agree with Gwar that WS0 is a bit OTT, but WS1 achieves similar effect to needing 6's to hit. I like the pinning idea too, but I didn't think pinning had any effect on models in CC?

WS1 = 5+ to hit at worst. 6's to hit as a special rule is much better for the mask

I've been thinking about the one power idea and I like it. I'll revise the list to simplify it and repost once I've got a bit more material. Here's a power for Firedragons:

Tank Hunters: if you roll doubles when rolling for armor penetration, the target vehicle is automatically destroyed exactly as if you rolled "Vehicle Destroyed" on the vehicle damage chart.

Gav:

I like it. It looks to be very close to the list posted in white dwarf. I do have one question though:

Most comments on the MM list are that the pricing is not really all that accurate, and the units are all crazy lethal when run against a 'normal' list. On my own (flawed) attempt at balance, I have tried to keep with that. How does yours stack up in your experience with regular armies?

It's only a WIP at the moment and I haven't had the opportunity to run it against an opponent yet, basing the entire thing on the movie marine list and the eldar codex. It looks like I'll be revising it, however, to slim it down and make it more playable. Whether that means more balanced, we'll see, but the reason I posted it in the first place was to make sure that it wasn't overpowered. I know that sounds oxymoronic, but I want to make sure it's fun to play, fits the theme of an Aspect Council, and can not only win but be beat as well.

Let us know how that goes, I'd like to hear the results. Any suggestions/edits/insights you have for my revised movie marines list, are appreciated.