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I've begun to consider picking up Witch Hunters as soon as I have the funding to do so. If I do, I hope to use a personal Cannoness in my army (with an backup list if I can't convince my opponent to let me). I have an idea of what I want, but don't want her to be so powerful I'm only left with 500pt for the rest of my army. The stats I have for her right now are:

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Wargear: Bolt pistol / Auspex / Litanies of Faith / Rosarius

"Custom Close Combat Weapon" Counts as a Master Crafted power weapon. It may to each of the following once per battle:
_____If the Cannoness did not assault this turn it may be treated as a Powerfist that has only one attack and hits on a 4+ regardless of WS. If the attack sucessfuly wounds the unit is removed as a casualty and the opposing squad automatically losses the assault, but the winners cannot follow with a sweeping advance. If applied to a vehicle, if the armor is breached the the roll for vehicle damage gains a modifier of +6 (instant explosion)

_____If the Cannoness attempts to assault a unit that is at least 3" away (running start), she may chose to attack only once. The resulting attack goes first regardless of Initiative and if it wounds, roll a D6, and on a (4 or 5)+ the target is removed as per the Instant Death rule or adds a +2 on the vehicle damage chart if not against infantry.

Special Rules:
Independent Character
Faithful - adds 2 Faith points
Fearless
Implacable Warrior - Immunity to Instant Death, but only from high strength weapons. Weapons with a special Instant Death rules still apply.

Points... ????

Willing to tone down to keep her under 250pts, or up if the abilities seem useless.





Also, half related... What would the High Gothic name for the "(Internet) Troll Hunters" faction of the Inquisition be?

Caelun Niveus wrote:I've begun to consider picking up Witch Hunters as soon as I have the funding to do so. If I do, I hope to use a personal Cannoness in my army (with an backup list if I can't convince my opponent to let me). I have an idea of what I want, but don't want her to be so powerful I'm only left with 500pt for the rest of my army. The stats I have for her right now are:

Sounds like a fun idea for friendly games. I'm sure we all wouldn't mind doing that with some of our favourite characters either.

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I don't have access to the WH codex right now, but if I'm right, the only thing that's changed here is that she's WS5 instead of 4, right? I don't like it too much, but I don't see many problems coming from it either. It's not like a Cannoness will spend much time fighting the rank and file anyway, so this increase in WS isn't making much of an impact.

Wargear: Bolt pistol / Auspex / Litanies of Faith / Rosarius

With the way you list the rest of her abilities, a jump pack and artificer armour would be useful. Dump the Rosarius, Cannoness have easy access to an invulnerable save with Faith anyway, it's redundant. Look into some of the cooler wargear that they can get.

"Custom Close Combat Weapon" Counts as a Master Crafted power weapon. It may to each of the following once per battle:
_____If the Cannoness did not assault this turn it may be treated as a Powerfist that has only one attack and hits on a 4+ regardless of WS. If the attack sucessfuly wounds the unit is removed as a casualty and the opposing squad automatically losses the assault, but the winners cannot follow with a sweeping advance. If applied to a vehicle, if the armor is breached the the roll for vehicle damage gains a modifier of +6 (instant explosion)

A slew of issues here. First, the whole instant death combined with automatically winning combat is too much. Drop the auto-win. Have it inflict regular instant death. Second, against vehicles, you're only going to hurt AV 12 or lower. This wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't just a single attack hitting only half the time, and only doing damage on at least a 4+. At the very least, allow it to be used more then once a game. With the restriction of a single shot in the assault phase, limitless use is fine.

Honestly, I would make it a master crafted blessed weapon with those abilities, that way, you know that you have at least some reason to take this over a normal cannoness. Otherwise, it's just way too gimmicky to be useful.

_____If the Cannoness attempts to assault a unit that is at least 3" away (running start), she may chose to attack only once. The resulting attack goes first regardless of Initiative and if it wounds, roll a D6, and on a (4 or 5)+ the target is removed as per the Instant Death rule or adds a +2 on the vehicle damage chart if not against infantry.

Just remove this ability altogether, and give her an inferno pistol instead of a bolt pistol. Similar effect, simpler, easier.

Special Rules:
Independent Character
Faithful - adds 2 Faith points

Standard stuff...

Fearless

With the litanies of faith, she doesn't really need this. Especially with No Retreat! wounds to worry about. Drop it for her own good.

Implacable Warrior - Immunity to Instant Death, but only from high strength weapons. Weapons with a special Instant Death rules still apply.

Immunity to instant death is just an excuse to play poorly. There's a reason why I love my Grey Knight Grand Master--he punishes people who rely on it. Drop the rule and play better. There's no reason for her to have this rule, especially since she's just a normal human (a fanatical, crazed human, but a human none-the-less).


Overall, she doesn't pack much to take her over a normal Cannoness. She doesn't impact your army any differently, She's not packing any of the heavy hitting weaponry that Cannoness' can carry, and she doesn't have much of that cool wargear that they can get either. She needs some rethinking before you put her out to field, otherwise, she's just a gimmicky, weaker version of a normal Cannoness.

As you have her now, I would never consider her for any point value, she's just not worth it.

If you throw on the ideas that I suggested, she may be worth ~150 points or so, but that may be pushing it.

Also, half related... What would the High Gothic name for the "(Internet) Troll Hunters" faction of the Inquisition be?

Just translate it to Latin. I'm sure you can find a translator somewhere on the (Internet)...

Hm... To be blatantly honest, she's susppost to be a knockoff/descendant of Captian Falcon. The first ability is her Falcon Punch, and the second was the Knee of Justice. Her statline is the same as a normal Cannoness, but I swapped her WS ans BS.

If you need a Codex, I was using this one online: http://www.scribd.com/doc/4993709/Warhammer-40K-Codex-Witch-Hunters

According to the Codex, Litinaies only allow one free act of faith per battle, Fearless would apply the battle through. But I'll drop it. Also, I can't find artificer armor.

I'll remove the auto-win from the punch, and allow multiple punches per Battle that hit per her WS. I want to keep the knee, so what can I do to improve it?




And Troll won't translate into Latin on any translators I can find...

Oh, I was thinking of two different items. The one that makes your units stubborn instead of Litanies. Also, WH has a different armour that gives a 2+ save... forget the name, but it's basically the same thing as artificer armour.

As for the knee, make it so that if it hits, a template is made, centered on the target(in addition to a regular hit with a weapon).

Although, I find it perplexing that you use a female character to represent the manliest man in the history of videogames.

As a regular on the website Halolz, I chose the sisters to be a church militant for the Church of Falcon, but as as all "Falconist" members have personal armies, they're being converted into my personal Troll Hunters (Field myself as an "Ordos Troiae" Inquisitor). Also, SoB in Falcon colors looked better that I could imagine SM.

The item that gives 2+ armor save is Cloak of St. Aspira, and the book of St. Lucius allows units within 6" take a Ld test based off the leader's unmodified stat. However, I could give her Stubborn as a base trait as she would be a Special Character.

And, of course, I would have a back-up story for any Fluff-nazis so I may still play with them.

Writing up revised stat sheet....


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Wargear: Inferno pistol / Auspex / Cloak of the Great Captian (counts as Cloak of St. Aspira)

"Gloves of the Holy Falcon" Counts as a Master Crafted-Blessed Weapon. It may to either of the following instead of its normal attack:
_____If the Cannoness did not assault this turn it may be treated as a Powerfist that has only one attack. If the attack sucessfuly wounds the unit is removed as a casualty. If applied to a vehicle, if the armor is breached the the roll for vehicle damage gains a modifier of +6 (instant explosion)

_____If the Cannoness attempts to assault a unit that is at least 3" away (running start), she may chose to attack with a flying knee (before any models in her squad move to assault). The resulting attack goes first regardless of Initiative and if it wounds, roll a D6. On a 5+ a small blast template is placed over the target, and the target is removed as per the Instant Death while any additional models (except the Cannoness) take one wound with saves allowed. If used against a veichle, +2 is given to the target's damage chart. After this attack is resolved, any unit the Cannoness was attached to then moves to assault the enemy (or choherince if there is no target left), and the assault continues as normal with the cannoness having only 2 attacks left that turn.

Special Rules:
Independent Character
Faithful - adds 2 Faith points
Stubborn

Moving to Rules Discussion.

Caelun Niveus wrote:
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Wargear: Inferno pistol / Auspex / Cloak of the Great Captian (counts as Cloak of St. Aspira)

Inferno pistol fits the C. Falcon theme perfectly. Auspex is... meh. Doesn't hurt, but not exactly useful, especially with only 6 inches of shooting range.

"Gloves of the Holy Falcon" Counts as a Master Crafted-Blessed Weapon. It may to either of the following instead of its normal attack:
_____If the Cannoness did not assault this turn it may be treated as a Powerfist that has only one attack. If the attack sucessfuly wounds the unit is removed as a casualty. If applied to a vehicle, if the armor is breached the the roll for vehicle damage gains a modifier of +6 (instant explosion)

Remove the instant death and the armour modifier, make it a single S10 power weapon attack. Simple, easy, awesome.

_____If the Cannoness attempts to assault a unit that is at least 3" away (running start), she may chose to attack with a flying knee (before any models in her squad move to assault). The resulting attack goes first regardless of Initiative and if it wounds, roll a D6. On a 5+ a small blast template is placed over the target, and the target is removed as per the Instant Death while any additional models (except the Cannoness) take one wound with saves allowed. If used against a veichle, +2 is given to the target's damage chart. After this attack is resolved, any unit the Cannoness was attached to then moves to assault the enemy (or choherince if there is no target left), and the assault continues as normal with the cannoness having only 2 attacks left that turn.

Drop the instant death, make the template S4, AP 4. Get rid of the 5+ to place bullcrap.

Special Rules:
Independent Character
Faithful - adds 2 Faith points
Stubborn

Drop stubborn and take the book. Falcon's presence is so awesome that everyone would be motivated to fight for him. Likewise, Falcon has a crap-ass recovery, so stubborn doesn't make sense.

Fair enough, S10 would probably instant kill most infantry anyway. The Auspex may be of little use to her, but allows her squad to fire on the target if she's in one. The knee could be made simpler, and I'm not sure if I fixed that properly. Lastly, points cost?

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Wargear: Inferno pistol / Auspex / Mantle of the Great Captian (counts as Cloak of St. Aspira) / Bible of Mute City (counts as Book of St. Lucius)

"Gloves of the Holy Falcon" Counts as a Master Crafted-Blessed Weapon. It may to either of the following instead of its normal attack:
_____If the Cannoness did not assault this turn it may be treated as a Powerfist that has only one attack at S10

_____If the Cannoness attempts to assault a unit that is at least 3" away (running start), she may chose to attack with a flying knee (before any models in her squad move to assault). The resulting attack goes first regardless of Initiative and if it wounds place a small blast template over the target and any models (except the Cannoness) under the template take one S4/AP 4 hit. If used against a vehicle, +2 is given to the target's damage chart. After this attack is resolved, any unit the Cannoness was attached to then moves to assault the enemy (or coherence if there is no target left), and the assault continues as normal with the Cannoness having only 2 attacks left that turn.

Special Rules:
Independent Character
Faithful - adds 2 Faith points

For rules clarification, for the falcon punch, just make it a power weapon attack at S10 that strikes at initiative 1. If you call it a powerfist, then a bunch of other issues come up.

For the knee, it looks great.

For points cost, you're looking at around 100-150 in my book. A few really cool ideas, but nothing outright insane. I don't have my 'copy' of the codex on hand right now, so I can't compare for you, so this is just a guesstimate. The key factors here are that she dies like a normal cannoness, and that she doesn't offer a lot more then most cannoesses either, she just plays differently.

Thanks for the help Fafnir. I would of had a gimmicky and useless HQ piece otherwise. I do wish to get a second opinion on the points cost, and then a third and fourth (and ect.) and price her at the average of those suggestions so people I play against won't complain too much. Then all I need is a model for her, a name for her, and the rest of her army.

Final Stats!!!
_________________________________________

WS__BS___S__T__W__I__A__Ld__Sv
_5___4____3__3__3__4__3__10__3+(2+)

Wargear: Inferno pistol / Auspex / Mantle of the Great Captian (counts as Cloak of St. Aspira) / Bible of Mute City (counts as Book of St. Lucius)

Gloves of the Holy Falcon: Counts as a Master Crafted-Blessed Weapon. It may to either of the following instead of its normal attack:
--Falcon Pawnch: If the Cannoness did not assault this turn she may make a single S10 attack at Initiative 1
--Knee of Justice: If the Cannoness attempts to assault a unit that is at least 3" away (running start), she may chose to attack with a flying knee (before any models in her squad move to assault). The resulting attack goes first regardless of Initiative and if it wounds place a small blast template over the target and any models (except the Cannoness) under the template take one S4/AP 4 hit. If used against a vehicle, +2 is given to the target's damage chart. After this attack is resolved, any unit the Cannoness was attached to then moves to assault the enemy (or coherence if there is no target left), and the assault continues as normal with the Cannoness having only 2 attacks left that turn.

Special Rules:
Independent Character
Faithful - adds 2 Faith points

Points: (~150)