Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

One thing I've always wondered about...


Say I have a 10 man squad and 3 people die.

Losing 3 people means that squad is at 70% of what it was.... since I lost 30% of the squad, I'm required to take a morale check and we'll say I passed.

Now next turn..... one more guy dies.

am I:

A) DO take another morale test as I'm testing off of a 10 man squad that has essentially lost 4 members putting me at 60% strength (or losing 40% of the squad)

OR

B) DO NOT take another morale test as I'm testing off of a 7 man squad that has essentially lost 1 member putting me at 85% strength (or losing 15% of the squad)

Option B would be the correct one. Look at the first example on page 44 of the BRB.

B.

Option B is correct.

As others have said it is B. Another way to think about it is, if A was the correct option, then once you meet the 25% mark, you have to take a test every time you lose a model. That would not be cool.

Ace, i'm sure we have been playing the option A version of that.

So if you pass a moral test with 7 guys, that now class's as a new unit of 7 so you dont take another till that group has lost 25% of 7?

deejaybainbridge wrote:Ace, i'm sure we have been playing the option A version of that.

So if you pass a moral test with 7 guys, that now class's as a new unit of 7 so you dont take another till that group has lost 25% of 7?

Correct.

Another thing to be careful of is attaching IC's to units that do not auto regroup.

For example, a Unit of 10 Chaos Spess Mahrinez are joined by a Kay-yoos Lawd. The Unit takes 4 Casualties, which is ≈36% casualties (4/11), and thus takes a Morale Check. They Pass.

Next turn, the Nastybad Enemehs of T3h Fawlse Empra kill 3 more Chaos Mahrinez. This is ≈28.5% Casualties (3/7) so they must take another morale test. They Phail, and run away. The IC is now stuck with a unit that cannot regroup, as the unit has only 4/11 members left, which is less than 50%.

The Irony is of course that if all the Marines had died, and the IC had just run away on his own, he could try and regroup as he becomes a different unit with 1/1 members left!

Gwar! wrote:

deejaybainbridge wrote:Ace, i'm sure we have been playing the option A version of that.

So if you pass a moral test with 7 guys, that now class's as a new unit of 7 so you dont take another till that group has lost 25% of 7?

Correct.

Another thing to be careful of is attaching IC's to units that do not auto regroup.

For example, a Unit of 10 Chaos Spess Mahrinez are joined by a Kay-yoos Lawd. The Unit takes 4 Casualties, which is ≈36% casualties (4/11), and thus takes a Morale Check. They Pass.

Next turn, the Nastybad Enemehs of T3h Fawlse Empra kill 3 more Chaos Mahrinez. This is ≈28.5% Casualties (3/7) so they must take another morale test. They Phail, and run away. The IC is now stuck with a unit that cannot regroup, as the unit has only 4/11 members left, which is less than 50%.

The Irony is of course that if all the Marines had died, and the IC had just run away on his own, he could try and regroup as he becomes a different unit with 1/1 members left!

Ah but the 50% part still applys to the original size of the unit.

For example.

10 IG guardsmen lose three men in the first turn take a moral test and pass

The now 7 man IG Guardsmen lose another three men in the secound turn, reducing them to 4, they take another moral test and fail.

So Option A: Now they are below 50% of ten so they cannot regroup,
Or option B: Now they are more then 50% of 7 so they can regroup.

Option A. The 50% Rule works on the units starting strength.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/309752.page

Aw man... I felt that question was important enough as it's own thread. But you've answered it here already.

Gwar! wrote:Option A. The 50% Rule works on the units starting strength.

Sheesh they like to make this game complex.

So moral is based on the size of a unit at the beginning of the turn! but the regrouping test is based on the size of the unit at the start of the game!

Do'h! if it regrouping had worked the same as moral it could have seriously saved my bacon.

At least i've learnt something today!

Option B would be the correct one. Look at the first example on page 44 of the BRB.

Just checked that and that example doesn't really clear anything up as the unit a) went below 75% in the second phase and b) went below 50% of it's starting size. I think to be honest the rule is vague enough that players could play it either way without knowing if they're right or not. I'd actually go for option A on the first question as the unit isn't going to just forget about it's fallen comrades from previous turns and it would be just loads more realistic in terms of war if all break tests are based on a units starting strength.

(But that's just, like, my opinion, man.)

Diakon wrote:

Option B would be the correct one. Look at the first example on page 44 of the BRB.

Just checked that and that example doesn't really clear anything up as the unit a) went below 75% in the second phase and b) went below 50% of it's starting size. I think to be honest the rule is vague enough that players could play it either way without knowing if they're right or not. I'd actually go for option A on the first question as the unit isn't going to just forget about it's fallen comrades from previous turns and it would be just loads more realistic in terms of war if all break tests are based on a units starting strength.

(But that's just, like, my opinion, man.)

The example is not ambiguous at all.

The example states: "A unit of five troops suffers two casualties from the enemy shooting, so it takes a More check, which it promptly passes. Next turn, the unit, now three strong, suffers a single casualty from shooting, which is now enough for it to have to take another Morale check.

The example states: "A unit of five troops suffers two casualties from the enemy shooting, so it takes a More check, which it promptly passes. Next turn, the unit, now three strong, suffers a single casualty from shooting, which is now enough for it to have to take another Morale check.

Yeah but in the next turn it reaches below 50% of it's original size as well as 75% of it's current size so it would have to take one anyway. They should of used a ten man squad to illustrate the point really.

Option B since the morale check applies to the new amount of squad members.

Yeah having read the moral section of the rulebook last night it's pretty clear that moral is done on the size of the squad at the start of the 'phase' not the strength of the squad at the beginning of the game.

Regrouping is still based on the original size. Just not moral.

Fer Chrissake, its morale......not Moral.

I think what's most confusing about "moralE" checks (Thanks, Akira ), is that you take them for various reasons, and with each reason, different rules apply. The only thing one can do, really, is learn what these reasons are and how to differentiate them from each situation.

Morale checks are taken when:

A) A unit has lost 25% or more casualties from what it had at the beginning of the CURRENT Shooting Phase.

B) A unit loses an assault.

C) A unit is falling back, and is capable of regrouping for whatever reason. (ie - ATSKNF, or being at at least 50% capacity of the unit's original size).

D) Whenever any special rule forces a unit to take one as specified by their rule.

Each situation that I've listed has different rules that apply to each one, and to know the difference between them all would save you a lot of confusion, I think.

All other checks based around the Leadership score (ie - Pinning, Psychic Powers) are more or less Morale Checks as well, but just called differently because they are used for different reasons and situations. A lot of people at times confuse them for Morale Checks though, which they are technically not, so it's important to know what kind of check you're being tested for.

Rurouni Benshin wrote:

C) A unit is falling back, and is capable of regrouping for whatever reason. (ie - ATSKNF, or being at at least 50% capacity of the unit's original size).

Technically, this isn't a Morale test either. This is important, cause it means that abilities that allow you to reroll a Morale test do not work for a regrouping LD test. Like you say, it's important to know what kind of test you're making.

Doh! Thanks for clarifying.