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Following a discussion in the News and Rumours, and not wanting to continuosly hijack the thread, a poster suggested bringing the discussion regarding how much some rumor posters are viewed.

Should rumor posters post whatever they hear, given all the circumstances (not being able to verify 100% a source, etc?)

I believe this is where some posters were aiming at (in a most basic level), but in any case if not, then I guess the thread will steer itself naturally.

Well... it's rumours, not everything will be provable and concrete. Otherwise it would be called News and Facts

I think someone like Kroothawk should be put in charge of compiling rumor threads and making stickies out of them. A. to avoid dozens of double postings and question threads, and B to have a sticky which is updated by one or a few select people, who are in charge of both updating and debunking subsequently disproven stuff.

Something interesting to do would be to track main posters rumor submissions AFTER release, tracking which ones are reliable, which are hit and miss, and which are just usually full of b.s. That would be awesome!

Eh, I didn't want it to be a 'rate rumormongers' thread, since the discussion this thread stems from was talking pretty much about Stickmonkey. The thread name should be changed to reflect that if possible.

That aside, the point we were making in the thread is that there isn't anything wrong with people posting rumors. The point of contention was that Stickmonkey gets his stuff posted around the internet and is taken for granted, in spite of two things:

A) None of the stuff he's posted has come to pass

Now, this isn't really a problem as even the most reliable and trustworthy of rumormongers still need to be proven right and build a track record before they earn that reputation. Stickmonkey's problem is:

B) He has a track record of being hilariously wrong.

Just take a look at what he posted during the lead up to the new Tyranid codex:

Some new rumor bits from this morning:

Tyrants:
Tyrants definitely have expanded psychic powers.
Increases to stat line on tyrant. +A +I
Tyrant gets 5+ invul default
Regen upgrade option as Fex (points expensive)
Lash whip can "target" a model in unit in CC (must mean other changes to LW)

Another rumor reinforcing a change to nids "rending" reverting rending back to 4ed for nids

Another confirmation of WoN availability on all Gaunt species...inc gargoyles

sprue pics for ravs and gargoyles should have visibility on web by nov 27.

Black boxes in stores by mid-Dec.

Box art online for Rav and Garg boxes before Dec.

"Surprise" mini planned, blister pack.

biomorph/weapons Sprue available separately direct only late Jan.

gargoyle weapon options include a cc build.

Nid PS Terrain set planned for mid to late 2010 (also rumor of Eldar Webway gate terrain set, but that's another thread)

Trygon/ravener "burrow" ability, go back underground, re-DS elsewhere on table....sounds like Necron Lord teleport ability. First I've heard of this, so this will need to be vetted.

Fex "nerf" will "make sense" is not related to Nid-zilla. players will still want to have many fex's

stealer "nerf" is just rumor. stealer FOC changes are re-confirmed. BL does more to stealers than just FOC change options.

Crushing Claws = dreadnaught CCW + new nid ability.

"Nid Surge" ability. Army wide. Extra move. (Ork Waagh? Name is not "nid surge")

Pravane like psychic ability...move enemy unit

Possession ability...control enemy unit

Shielding ability...protect unit

As always, my contacts have decent exposure to this, but are not authorities. So things change during the development, or conversations related to other products get confused, but in general more hits than misses. Enjoy.

Todays Rumors

These rumors are from early on. So subject to all standard rumor caveats. I'm removing those we already have, and those we know to be false.


To support more Fex' in the army an overall reduction in stats should take place, however, increases elsewhere compensate (not sure if they mean in weapons or in the statline)

Crushing Claws are huge "can openers"...+1A, double s (10Max), ignore as, add d6 pen, d3 "wounds"/"vehicle hits" (too good to be true, IMO)

Talons +1A, "pinning"?

Envenomed claws, upgrade to CC symbiotes, wound on 3+

Rending Claws, autowound on 6 on hit, more expensive

Spinefists, fire and run (is this the rumor "subconcious weapon" we heard before?)

Barbed Strangler, large blast, entangle...unit next move as difficult terrain (Again, I thought this was a rumor elsewhere, too)

Bone sword, pretty much the same

Lashwhip, remove X attacks from attacking unit (allocate as wounds), can target individual, but then only affects single model. no min 1A. no longer base contact constrained. (a lot here and it seems complex, so I highly doubt all (or any) this is true, but I have no way to separate wheat from chaff)

Surprise Assault. (I'm not sure where this fits, if its an ability, a psychic thing, a army rule, a deployment rule, etc. If I were guessing I'd think it's lictor or Scuttlers related.) Unit enters play from reserve anywhere on table. must be 12" from enemy. Cannot assault the turn it enters play. Allowed normal DS "run"

Enjoy boys....

Recently, he both made the claim that Grey Knights would be released in a later half of the year (need an exact quote here*) only to have the Incoming! email drop an April release date on us. In addition, he just had his "January Rumors" thread closed on Warseer (bolding mine):

Wintermute wrote:I think this thread has run its course especially as one of the rumours stated by the op has been proven to be incorrect, inaccurate and very wrong.

This isn't about getting 100% facts out of rumor threads, only that we have a guy who not only has never been proven right but has a history of being proven wrong, so why bother listening to what he says?

Rumor posters should NOT post whatever they hear. Thats how rumors start (forgive the pun). I have seen, way too many times unfortunately, someone that is perceived as being 'in the know' (a GW employee, people with a long history of involvement w/ GW) talk about stuff that is pure conjecture or entirely baseless, and others take it as being gospel truth.

A rumor poster should only, ONLY, ever post something that comes from someone reliable (defined as being someone that is for SURE in the know, I.E. development studio, etc.) or post rumors that while not from a reliable source, come from reliable circumstance ("Manager of my local GW was at a conference/on a tour of HQ and they were told or saw...")

I know it's rumors, some people however think they're absolute truths

On your other points, I somewhat agree... but that just sounds draconic, i.e., how to evaluate bad posters? One has been frequently mentioned, but we don't know if he's doing it just for the laughs - it could be that he gets his rumours from playtesters or their friends, and some stuff eventually gets turned down. Given that he doesn't know which, should he post them, or not?

On a side note regarding the rating system... Warseer has a nice one for their P&M sub-forum, is this feature somehow present in Dakka?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@bhsman - I'm open to suggestions regarding the thread's name, I just wanted to get it off. I humbly take suggestions (it wasn't rating per se, just how much credibility should be given to rumour posters or something. My mind is baffled from excessive nicotine, national geographic on TV, and sleep deprivation, sorry)

As for StickM's posts, I cannot refute that because I rarely take notice of who posts what, or dates (so I apologize right now for my mistake in the other thread), but I think Hastings75 and others thought that the GK were coming April.

Destrado wrote:I know it's rumors, some people however think they're absolute truths

On your other points, I somewhat agree... but that just sounds draconic, i.e., how to evaluate bad posters? One has been frequently mentioned, but we don't know if he's doing it just for the laughs - it could be that he gets his rumours from playtesters or their friends, and some stuff eventually gets turned down. Given that he doesn't know which, should he post them, or not?

On a side note regarding the rating system... Warseer has a nice one for their P&M sub-forum, is this feature somehow present in Dakka?

Oh I think he should still post, it's part of the fun! It's kind of cool to see a trackrecord though, for me, it wouldn't mean much other than an interesting track of the 'main guys'. Frankly, an amazing or bad trackrecord doesnt guarantee anything, in any single instance, it's still a crapshoot what to believe for us. You are probably right though, it would probably start arguments or flaming more than anything else.

I think Hastings, who is usually spot-on, also said later in the year, like Stickmonkey. Both also said Grey Knights would be getting that exo-suit model, so maybe there's some credence to the idea that GW sends out bad info.

As for the thread title? Maybe just "Is Stickmonkey A Reliable Rumormonger?" Gives you a little bit of alliteration.

chaos0xomega wrote:Rumor posters should NOT post whatever they hear. Thats how rumors start (forgive the pun). I have seen, way too many times unfortunately, someone that is perceived as being 'in the know' (a GW employee, people with a long history of involvement w/ GW) talk about stuff that is pure conjecture or entirely baseless, and others take it as being gospel truth.

A rumor poster should only, ONLY, ever post something that comes from someone reliable (defined as being someone that is for SURE in the know, I.E. development studio, etc.) or post rumors that while not from a reliable source, come from reliable circumstance ("Manager of my local GW was at a conference/on a tour of HQ and they were told or saw...")

Problem is this is hard to filter. Rumours are just that, most people really in the know (Harry, for one) post things with certainty because he's seen them/hasn't been misled before (miniatures, release dates, etc).

Others have no way to know what info is true and what isn't. I'd rather have them share and we speculate, rather than some bleak weeks with no news whatsoever. But I guess, that's the difference between News and Rumours, as Tom pointed out before.

Well, I mean, there is a world outside of Dakka's rumor forum. Even when there is a new set of rumors posted the fun is usually out of by the hour as people rehash the same thing for weeks.

It's worse when it ends up being bunk, like that fake Blood Angels codex or the guy who intentionally posted a bunch of fake rumors like Rending NFWs and an upgrade character for the Stormraven that gave it Scout.

bhsman wrote:As for the thread title? Maybe just "Is Stickmonkey A Reliable Rumormonger?" Gives you a little bit of alliteration.

That might make this thread last as long as the paper cat who ran from the asbestos devil-dog through hell, but any other alliterate suggestions are still welcome

bhsman wrote:Well, I mean, there is a world outside of Dakka's rumor forum. Even when there is a new set of rumors posted the fun is usually out of by the hour as people rehash the same thing for weeks.

I spent my day refreshing pages on Chrome. I'm sad, I know, but Firefox works badly on my Dell Mini 9, especially when I keep 20+ tabs open

But yeah, I got tired of reading Waaagh Gonads' post whenever I popped my browser in a Dark Eldar thread.

bhsman wrote:It's worse when it ends up being bunk, like that fake Blood Angels codex or the guy who intentionally posted a bunch of fake rumors like Rending NFWs and an upgrade character for the Stormraven that gave it Scout.

Posting fake stuff is another thing, I don't think this is the case. I doubt some are the attention "ladies for hire", as was also said. Or rather, I'll give them the benefit of doubt, because I don't see how or what they stand to gain after other people know they intentionally shared bad info.

bhsman wrote:I think Hastings, who is usually spot-on, also said later in the year, like Stickmonkey. Both also said Grey Knights would be getting that exo-suit model, so maybe there's some credence to the idea that GW sends out bad info.

They got shifted with Dark Eldar, if I'm not mistaken. I wonder why, if true.

He knows that some ( a lot) of his information is bunk and yet he posts it. I think that pretty much sums up his quality as a rumor poster.

Just for kicks, one of his most wonderful quotes:

These come from a new source for me, but my regular sources did not call bs. So as always, nothing is set in stone...I'm recounting exactly as I was told, so if it doesn't make sense to you, it didn't to me either. I will come out and say some of this directly conflicts other information I have, but I have my reasons to share

Let's see it this way (which can be one of the possible explanations);

He got information regarding a release date; he saw new models; he had a conversation with someone who divulged "possibilities". We don't know what he does, but he says he is involved with GW in some way that allows him some degree of information.

Now, let's say he had information about xenos terrain, namely tyranid, and an Eldar Webway Portal. He said it was possible that it would be released in mid-2010.

It didn't came to pass, even though he said he had talked with the designer; however, for reasons unknown, said terrain was still to be released.

We can't know for sure, right know, if he made it up, or if the studio changed it's mind - the reasons for the latter would be, for example, tying it with an apropriate codex release. I don't know if something similar happened to the Honoured Imperium, but it happened with the Daemon Prince, or with the "new" Eldar Jetbike - which was adapted into the Reaver, or even the models for plastic stormtroopers.

So, while the Tyranid rumours were bunk, that doesn't mean he lied about it. He could've heard it from playtesters, they could've pulled his leg, etc. Him not being reliable doesn't directly equate to him being a bad person, eager for attention or e-ego bolstering. How many people saw, before the release of the 4th or 5th Marine 'dex, the Space Marines wielding dual assault cannons illustration? Just as people did back then, he could have seen it and thought it was an impending release or at least a new codex entry.

Some of this, like the recent GK rumours, were generic enough (though I still think that if Stein gets a new model, it'll somehow lessen the doubts I have about him), but the previous terrain rumour can only be debunked with the release of an Eldar Codex, or the veiled Sisters of Battle with their appropriate Codex.

So, to sum it up, I don't think he's wrong intentionally, and it could be that he got a real bad streak. Rumours, however, are sometimes rather vague, and except very specific cases, have to be taken with a grain of salt precisely because what I mentioned.

I'm in no way "blindly" defending him, I just couldn't care less. I just think people were having extreme reactions. He opts to post it, and whether right or wrong about it (posting it, and it's veracity) it does stimulate some discussion which, IMHO, is always interesting.

This is, after all, a hobby, and I'm not having any real-life problems if it turns out that there are no veiled Sisters of Battle or 2+ FNP 2 wounds GK terminators.

Sorry for the long piece, anyhow.

Destrado wrote:Let's see it this way (which can be one of the possible explanations);

He got information regarding a release date; he saw new models; he had a conversation with someone who divulged "possibilities". We don't know what he does, but he says he is involved with GW in some way that allows him some degree of information.

Now, let's say he had information about xenos terrain, namely tyranid, and an Eldar Webway Portal. He said it was possible that it would be released in mid-2010.

It didn't came to pass, even though he said he had talked with the designer; however, for reasons unknown, said terrain was still to be released.

We can't know for sure, right know, if he made it up, or if the studio changed it's mind - the reasons for the latter would be, for example, tying it with an apropriate codex release. I don't know if something similar happened to the Honoured Imperium, but it happened with the Daemon Prince, or with the "new" Eldar Jetbike - which was adapted into the Reaver, or even the models for plastic stormtroopers.

So, while the Tyranid rumours were bunk, that doesn't mean he lied about it. He could've heard it from playtesters, they could've pulled his leg, etc. Him not being reliable doesn't directly equate to him being a bad person, eager for attention or e-ego bolstering. How many people saw, before the release of the 4th or 5th Marine 'dex, the Space Marines wielding dual assault cannons illustration? Just as people did back then, he could have seen it and thought it was an impending release or at least a new codex entry.

Some of this, like the recent GK rumours, were generic enough (though I still think that if Stein gets a new model, it'll somehow lessen the doubts I have about him), but the previous terrain rumour can only be debunked with the release of an Eldar Codex, or the veiled Sisters of Battle with their appropriate Codex.

So, to sum it up, I don't think he's wrong intentionally, and it could be that he got a real bad streak. Rumours, however, are sometimes rather vague, and except very specific cases, have to be taken with a grain of salt precisely because what I mentioned.

I'm in no way "blindly" defending him, I just couldn't care less. I just think people were having extreme reactions. He opts to post it, and whether right or wrong about it (posting it, and it's veracity) it does stimulate some discussion which, IMHO, is always interesting.

This is, after all, a hobby, and I'm not having any real-life problems if it turns out that there are no veiled Sisters of Battle or 2+ FNP 2 wounds GK terminators.

Sorry for the long piece, anyhow.

I don't know Stickmonkey's motivations. He may be well intentioned,albeit largely misinformed,or he may just be attention seeking on the internet. However,there's several things that I look at with him that cause me to be suspicious of the guy. First is this NDA stuff. He claims to work in an early phase of development,then some NDA kicks in when the release is within a certain,nebulous,undefined amount of time before the actual release. First,a NDA typically prevents you from talking about a project before it's release,period. If it does in fact work the way he claims,then that's very odd. For another,he claimed that GK were being pushed back 'til late Summer at the earliest,and GW drops Incoming GK! a couple of weeks later. As others have said,it takes a long time to get molds up and models running,and if Stickmonkey did indeed work at GW,there's no way they're going to change their minds,then change them back in that short of an amount of time. Second,he claims his NDA is time sensitive to date of release,then demonstrates that he really has no clue when stuff is actually being released.

Another issue is look at the ridiculous amount of outs the guy creates for himself when he's wrong. He has his NDA excuse,which keeps him from posting new stuff in the months leading up to the release,so that way when the rules he posts turn out wrong,he can just claim that they were playtested,then dropped/changed. He claims GW intentionally feeds him misinformation,which is hillarious. I'm sure GW has some guy sitting in an office somewhere drawing a fat salary to ruin his rumor mongering reputation. If GW was indeed concerned enough about Stickmonkey to feel they needed to feed him false info to discredit his leaks,they would just fire and replace him.

From there,we get his current crop of "fortune teller" rumors for GK,which are so broad,non-specific,and vague,that most of them can't help but be true. The only one that there's any real question about is a new Stern/Coteaz fig. It's the classic fortune teller scam. Make a bunch of broad,vague statements,and some of them can't help but be true.

If Stickmonkey gets his jollies by trying to be a 40k internet hero,then great for him. However,I don't see how anybody can objectively call him reliable and/or credible. He seems more like a guy that just throws a bunch of stuff out there,then hopes some of it sticks and nobody calls him on the rest of it. Ultimately,though,everybody will have to make their own mind up about him.

I largely don't dispute your point, except for the dates, which even more "reliable" rumor posters got wrong. The same happened with Dark Eldar, allegely - they had the models ready according to many people who saw them, but they still got delayed because of their codex.

Not saying this was the case, but given the two month difference between GK and the DE wave release it isn't something altogether impossible.
He could have been given bad info same way he gave it to us - someone connected but not wholly involved with projects at hand, who got it wrong. The way I see it, if Stern or Coteaz don't get remakes, then I guess he really is full of BS.

To reiterate, it's either a long streak of bad luck or he's just making it up. I guess time will tell.