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I just got a few games in with my new DE army against IG which was probably a bad choice for learning to play them.

Anyways as far as the Hellhound goes its allowed to shoot the template up to 12" away from the model exact wording is

Pg50 Imperial Guard

"To fire the inferno cannon place the template so that the narrow end is within 12" of the weapon and the large end is no closer to the weapon than the narrow end. The inferno cannon is then treated like any other template weapon"

Rulebook states
Pg29
Templates
"Against vehicles, the template must be placed to cover as much of the vehicle as possible without also touching a friendly model. Any models fully or partially under the template are hit.

So basically as long as I don't have my vehicles touching side by side he wouldn't be able to shoot the flame template sideways through my raiders hitting three of them since it would have to cover as much of the target vehicle as possible.

Just wanted to see what other peoples take on this is

The inferno cannon overrides template placement (specific beats general) so he can place the template in any way he wishes, as long as he follows the codex rules you quoted. After he did that, it is treated like any other template weapon.

Just out of curiosity, which part of the inferno cannon entry overrides the requirement that templates be placed covering the majority of the model/unit being targeted? I did not think they were mutually exclusive.

No, he must cover as much of the target vehicle as possible. Though the inferno cannon has a special rule for template placement, the line "The inferno cannon is then treated like any other template weapon" explains quiter clearly that you must follow all the other rules for templates, such as covering as much of a vehicle as possible.

It gives you specific instructions how to place the template and then(after that) treat it as a template weapon.

Thanks for the clarification, I wanted to be sure I was interpreting your response correctly.

It gives it guidelines for shooting an extra 12" inches but its clearly stated it follows all other rules for templates at least that's how I perceive it. So it would still have to fully cover a vehicle it is fired at.

It would make sense as I don't see how Hellhound's can defy physics by curving fire by a 90 degree angle...

The requirements from "treated like any other..." only kick in after you have placed the template. You have already placed it according to the rules from the codex, there is no opportunity to alter the placement of the template.

Trickstick wrote:The requirements from "treated like any other..." only kick in after you have placed the template. You have already placed it according to the rules from the codex, there is no opportunity to alter the placement of the template.

I disagree, it doesn't say that it is actually placed it says this is how you can place it. It is the only flame template in the game to my knowledge that shoots out an extra 12" so of course it needs some kind of ruling for that. But after you now know how you can shoot it, it says it follows all rules for templates.

Is there any InatFaq ruling on this? I have found no official ruling on it so far.

Aglobalthreat wrote:Pg50 Imperial Guard

"To fire the inferno cannon place the template so that the narrow end is within 12" of the weapon and the large end is no closer to the weapon than the narrow end. The inferno cannon is then treated like any other template weapon"

The first sentence states how you place the template. After that stage is completed and the template is placed (key word then) the template is treated like a normal flamer. However, by this stage you have already finished placing the template, so you can't follow the rules about covering vehicles even if you wanted to.

Then it can't be treated like any other template and it breaks the rules...

Seems kind of ridiculous for them to say it is treated like any other template weapon, since by your description it is not

Aglobalthreat wrote:

Trickstick wrote:The requirements from "treated like any other..." only kick in after you have placed the template. You have already placed it according to the rules from the codex, there is no opportunity to alter the placement of the template.

I disagree, it doesn't say that it is actually placed it says this is how you can place it

Pretty sure it does tells you to place it.

"To fire the inferno cannon place the template so that the narrow end is within 12" of the weapon and the large end is no closer to the weapon than the narrow end. The inferno cannon is then treated like any other template weapon."

Aglobalthreat wrote:Then it can't be treated like any other template and it breaks the rules...

Basically that's what your saying

Rules are the only ones allowed to break rules. No problem here.

HellRestaurant wrote:

Aglobalthreat wrote:

Trickstick wrote:The requirements from "treated like any other..." only kick in after you have placed the template. You have already placed it according to the rules from the codex, there is no opportunity to alter the placement of the template.

I disagree, it doesn't say that it is actually placed it says this is how you can place it

Pretty sure it does tells you to place it.

"To fire the inferno cannon place the template so that the narrow end is within 12" of the weapon and the large end is no closer to the weapon than the narrow end. The inferno cannon is then treated like any other template weapon."

Yes but the very beginning of the sentence "To fire" would implement them explaining how to fire the weapon not that it is actually fired.

So how do you fire it? By following the exact explanation.

1. Place template within 12" of the weapon and the large end may not be closer to the weapon than the narrow end.
2. Then treat it like any other template.

If you were required to hit as many models/as much of a vehicle as possible, you would also be required to fire the template from the weapon, making the whole 12" ability pointless, which, of course, is not the case.

Aglobalthreat wrote:

HellRestaurant wrote:

Aglobalthreat wrote:

Trickstick wrote:The requirements from "treated like any other..." only kick in after you have placed the template. You have already placed it according to the rules from the codex, there is no opportunity to alter the placement of the template.

I disagree, it doesn't say that it is actually placed it says this is how you can place it

Pretty sure it does tells you to place it.

"To fire the inferno cannon place the template so that the narrow end is within 12" of the weapon and the large end is no closer to the weapon than the narrow end. The inferno cannon is then treated like any other template weapon."

Yes but the very beginning of the sentence "To fire" would implement them explaining how to fire the weapon not that it is actually fired.

1. I declare that I'm firing the inferno cannon.
2. I place the template so that the narrow end is within 12" of the weapon and the large end is no closer to the weapon than the narrow end.
3. I then treat the inferno cannon like any other template weapon.

Aglobalthreat wrote:

HellRestaurant wrote:

Aglobalthreat wrote:

Trickstick wrote:The requirements from "treated like any other..." only kick in after you have placed the template. You have already placed it according to the rules from the codex, there is no opportunity to alter the placement of the template.

I disagree, it doesn't say that it is actually placed it says this is how you can place it

Pretty sure it does tells you to place it.

"To fire the inferno cannon place the template so that the narrow end is within 12" of the weapon and the large end is no closer to the weapon than the narrow end. The inferno cannon is then treated like any other template weapon."

Yes but the very beginning of the sentence "To fire" would implement them explaining how to fire the weapon not that it is actually fired.

WOW....just WOW.

So by that logic, the movement section explains how models move, but not that they actually move. I guess the BRB tells us how to play the game, but we never actually play the game. And I thought the movie "12 Monkeys" was a mind "freak."

Jidmah wrote:So how do you fire it? By following the exact explanation.

1. Place template within 12" of the weapon and the large end may not be closer to the weapon than the narrow end.
2. Then treat it like any other template.

If you were required to hit as many models/as much of a vehicle as possible, you would also be required to fire the template from the weapon, making the whole 12" ability pointless, which, of course, is not the case.

Well it clearly states that it is placed within 12" of the weapon as far as going against the rulebook, but all other rules should be taken from rulebook as it says so.

I don't see how that is such a hard concept to follow.

Blacksails wrote:No, he must cover as much of the target vehicle as possible. Though the inferno cannon has a special rule for template placement, the line "The inferno cannon is then treated like any other template weapon" explains quiter clearly that you must follow all the other rules for templates, such as covering as much of a vehicle as possible.

Always codex rules override main rule book. In this case as Blacksails aready said, you use the codex rules first then you must follow the main rulebooks rules as it clearly states ' is then treated like every other template'. So if the inferno cannon is placed over an enemy vehicle it must be placed over as much of the hull as possible.

Cannon rules: To fire the inferno cannon PLACE the template so that the narrow end is within 12" of the weapon and the large end is no closer to the weapon than the narrow end"." This funny mark is a period. It means an end to the sentence. The sentence on how the place this template is over

The inferno cannon is then treated like any other template weapon (This is for how to would and hit models) Nothing says you have to cover as many models as possible.

The Acolyte wrote:

Blacksails wrote:No, he must cover as much of the target vehicle as possible. Though the inferno cannon has a special rule for template placement, the line "The inferno cannon is then treated like any other template weapon" explains quiter clearly that you must follow all the other rules for templates, such as covering as much of a vehicle as possible.

Always codex rules override main rule book. In this case as Blacksails aready said, you use the codex rules first then you must follow the main rulebooks rules as it clearly states ' is then treated like every other template'. So if the inferno cannon is placed over an enemy vehicle it must be placed over as much of the hull as possible.

Except that the part "is then treated like any other template" is after you already placed the template. You can't place the template down, and THEN place the template down again in another position.

Aglobalthreat wrote:

Jidmah wrote:So how do you fire it? By following the exact explanation.

1. Place template within 12" of the weapon and the large end may not be closer to the weapon than the narrow end.
2. Then treat it like any other template.

If you were required to hit as many models/as much of a vehicle as possible, you would also be required to fire the template from the weapon, making the whole 12" ability pointless, which, of course, is not the case.

Well it clearly states that it is placed within 12" of the weapon as far as going against the rulebook, but all other rules should

THEN (it means after, which means after placement, because you can't do step 2 THEN do step 1)

be taken from rulebook as it says so.

I don't see how that is such a hard concept to follow.

Neither do I.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

The Acolyte wrote:
Always codex rules override main rule book. In this case as Blacksails aready said, you use the codex rules first then you must follow the main rulebooks rules as it clearly states ' is then treated like every other template'. So if the inferno cannon is placed over an enemy vehicle it must be placed over as much of the hull as possible.

Codex does not override rulebook. Specific Rules overrride general rules.

And you're still not handling the "then" part of the rules.

jbunny wrote:Cannon rules: To fire the inferno cannon PLACE the template so that the narrow end is within 12" of the weapon and the large end is no closer to the weapon than the narrow end"." This funny mark is a period. It means an end to the sentence. The sentence on how the place this template is over

The inferno cannon is then treated like any other template weapon (This is for how to would and hit models) Nothing says you have to cover as many models as possible.

Well the codex says it has to follow template weapon rules and the 12" rule, so its not like once you place a template its permanent and can never be moved. Man if that were the case you better place that template on the most guys the second you put it down cause you sure can't move it. That's the stupidest thing ever.

1st. the Codex does not say what you are trying to make it say. The Codex tells you how to place the templet. AFTER you place it it is then treated like a template.

2nd. with a normal template you move the template around to cover the most guys, and it is then PLACED there.

Once somethng is placed it can not be moved

Aglobalthreat wrote:Well the codex says it has to follow template weapon rules and the 12" rule, so its not like once you place a template its permanent and can never be moved.

I does not say that, and it is placed permanently once you decide where to place it. The process of placing is different for regular templates and inferno cannons.

Aglobalthreat wrote:

jbunny wrote:Cannon rules: To fire the inferno cannon PLACE the template so that the narrow end is within 12" of the weapon and the large end is no closer to the weapon than the narrow end"." This funny mark is a period. It means an end to the sentence. The sentence on how the place this template is over

The inferno cannon is then treated like any other template weapon (This is for how to would and hit models) Nothing says you have to cover as many models as possible.

Well the codex says it has to follow template weapon rules and the 12" rule, so its not like once you place a template its permanent and can never be moved. Man if that were the case you better place that template on the most guys the second you put it down cause you sure can't move it. That's the most slowed thing ever.

By that logic, you'd have to move the template back to base contact with the hellhound after the "is treated like any other template weapon" part kicks in.

jbunny wrote:1st. the Codex does not say what you are trying to make it say. The Codex tells you how to place the templet. AFTER you place it it is then treated like a template.

2nd. with a normal template you move the template around to cover the most guys, and it is then PLACED there.

Once somethng is placed it can not be moved

The only place it says placed is in the rulebook for covering models and a vehicle both situations say that you must cover as many and as much as possible for both.

Codex only says place...

Thanks for bringing that up though

Aglobalthreat:

Are you really arguing that you MOVE the template after it is placed? What basis in the rules is there for that? Look at it this way: You place the template within the prescribed range on the Inferno Cannon section. You then treat it like any other template weapon. It's already placed and there's nothing saying you can pick it back up, so it hits all of the models it can and covers as much of the vehicle as it can, because it can't be moved. You then use all the other template related rules (there are more than just about placement, like ignoring cover and all that.) And then you go on about your merry life.

In my mind, what you're suggesting is that if I have a marine with a flamer, and I move him up 4" so that he's only 1" away from a vehicle so that I can flame through one side of it and get the vehicle on the other side, that I have in fact moved illegally because I have to flame as much of the targeted vehicle as possible, so I should have had to moved such that as much of the area of the flamer would be over the targeted vehicle. That's backwards. B comes after A, not the other way around.

Aglobalthreat wrote:

jbunny wrote:1st. the Codex does not say what you are trying to make it say. The Codex tells you how to place the templet. AFTER you place it it is then treated like a template.

2nd. with a normal template you move the template around to cover the most guys, and it is then PLACED there.

Once somethng is placed it can not be moved

The only place it says placed is in the rulebook for covering models and a vehicle both situations say that you must cover as many and as much as possible for both.

Codex only says place...

Thanks for bringing that up though

Codex only says "place" but the second part starts with "then". When is "then"? After it is placed.

I smell a troll so I am backing out.