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In the army lists section I've had a 2,000pt Guard list up and this list has been undergoing some changes. I have now got to the stage where I start testing my list to see where it could be improved. To do this, I am playing a few games over the course of the week and am seeing for myself where it could be further improved, before making a few more final tweaks.

The first game that I played finished this afternoon, and if you have seen the army list ( http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/367289.page ) you may have seen me talking about a CSM player that I play quite regularly that I am never able to beat. This is because he runs a Lash of Submission List, and this list has never lost a game. The list goes approximately like this:

Chaos List

Daemon Prince
-Mark of Slaanesh
-Lash of Submission
-Wings

Daemon Prince
-Mark of Slaanesh
-Lash of Submission
-Wings

Plague Marines (7)
-Champion with Power Fist
-Rhino

Plague Marines (7)
-Champion with Power Fist
-Rhino

Plague Marines (7)
-Champion with Power Fist
-Rhino

Thousand Sons (10)
-Champion

Thousand Sons (10)
-Champion

Defiler

Defiler

Defiler


This works out at about approximately 2,000 points. This is the list that I played against today, and I used this version of my Guard list.

HQ

Company Command Squad
-Colonel Greiss (Creed)
-Colour Sergeant Rock (Kell)
-Plasma Guns (3x)
-Chimera

Troops

Platoon 1

Platoon Command Squad 1

Infantry Squad 1.1
-Commisar

Infantry Squad 1.2

Infantry Squad 1.3

Infantry Squad 1.4

Heavy Weapons Squad 1.1
-Lascannons

Heavy Weapons Squad 1.2
-Lascannons

Heavy Weapons Squad 1.3
-Autocannons

Heavy Weapons Squad 1.4
-Autocannons


Veteran Squad 1
-Plasma Guns (3x)
-Chimera

Veteran Squad 2
-Plasma Guns (3x)
-Chimera

Veteran Squad 3
-Plasma Guns (3x)
-Chimera

Heavy Support

Leman Russ Executioner

Leman Russ Executioner

Manticore Rocket Launcher


So yeah, this afternoon I played against this Chaos list with my Guard, and here is the battle report (there will be more coming as the week progresses). Sorry about the lack of pictures, I ended up proxying my entire list (except for the "Creed" and "Kell") with pennies for the Infantry and Calculaters Etc for the vehicles, and then some of my friends models for the HWSs, so the pictures would be a bit underwhelming. That and I forgot my camera.

Pre-Game:

Both me and my opponent knew that whoever won Priority would be in a very strong position for the rest of the game. If my opponent got it then half my army was likely to have suffered damage/death before the end of the first turn, as he would have had all 3 defilers and both Daemon Princes ready to cause as much carnage as they could. If I got priority, it would have put me in a strong position to neutralise some of the threat before my army suffered a serious kicking. As it happened, I managed to get priority, and as my opponent failed to sieze the initiative, the game started strongly for me. We also rolled for the game and got annihilation, and the deployment was Pitched Battle.

I deployed with my Command Chimera in the centre of my force, just infront were the Heavy Weapon Squads (The 2 Autocannons on the centre, and a Lascannon squad on each side of them), and infront of them was the infantry blob. The Manticore was next to the Command Chimera and a Chimera with Veterans was on its other side. On each flank I also had an Executioner and a Squad of veterans in a Chimera.

My opponent deployed with all 3 of his defilers at the back, with the Thousand sons infront of them and the Rhinos infront of them. The Daemon Princes stayed on the flanks.

Turn 1:

I started the game off by moving the vehicles on either flank forward six inches, and also moved the blob out of the way of the HWSs to get clear line of sight. This was it for my movement.

The shooting phase started off well, with Creed successfully ordering 'Bring it down' on every HWS. The first Lascannon Squad and the first Autocannon squad then proceeded to bring down the Daemon Prince on my left flank. The second load of HWSs had less luck, and managed to reduce the second Daemon Prince to 1 wound. I then proceeded to fire as much as I could in an attempt to kill it before t could lash me, but with the Executioners both having their shots scatter everywhere and the Manticores Missile scattering away from itthis did not succeed. Only one of the Veteran squads in the Chimera was in range of anything, their Plasma guns tearing apart one of the Rhinos and the resultant explosion killing a thousand son, meaning that my shooting phase ended with a resounding bang.

My opponents turn also caused a rather large amount of carnage, the 2 Rhinos rushing forwards with the Infantry following up behind, including the Plague Marines who had recently had their Rhino blown up (they weren't pinned).

I the shooting phase the Daemon Prince passed its Psychic test for Lash and my blob was pulled back towards the HWSs. This ended with the Defilers smashing them with their battlecannons which ended up killing the entire blob and the 2 Autocannon HWSs, seriously weakening the amount of damage that I could cause at range.

Turn 2

After the damage that was caused to my force in my opponents shooting phase last turn, I knew that I had to kill the remaining Daemon Prince and then cause as much damage to the defilers as I possibly could.

The shooting phase once again started well with the Lascannon squad on my right flank cutting down the remaining Daemon Prince, a drastic measure but I wanted to be sure that it would die. The Veteran squads in the Chimeras managed to account for another Rhino (Wrecked), 2 Plague Marines and a Defilers battle cannon. The remaining Lascannon HWS managed to fell a defiler, meaning that I had now seriously limited the amount of damage that my opponent could do next turn. The most spectacular part of th shooting however was the Manticore, which landed 3 direc hits on one of the Thousand sons squads which managed to wipe them out, due in no small part to some poor rolling for saves. The last things to fire were the executioners, who once again had their shots scatter everywhere.

My opponents move phase was not dramatic, as his forces continued to advance. In the shooting phase, the thousand sons found themselves just out of range and the defiler with the battlecannons shot scattered harmlessly. However, the assault phase proved to be more destructive. Both of my Executioners were charged by the Plague marines that their shots had failed to hit in the last player turn. One was wrecked by the resultant Power fist attacks whereas the other lost its Executioner Plasma Cannon.

Turn 3

The third turn really tipped the tide in my favour. Both of the remaining defilers were killed by the Lascannon HWSs and the Thousands sons squad was cut down by my CCS, the Manticore and a Squad of Veterans. Another squad of Plague Marines was also wiped out by more Plasma gun fire from other veteran squads. The only hit that I sustained during this turn was that of one of the veteran squads having their Chimera punched in the face by the Champion in the remaining Plague Marine Squad.

Turn 4

This turned out to be the last turn of the game, the Rhino was rent apart by the Lascannons and the veteran squads turned all of their Plasma guns upon the remaining squad of Plague Marines, cutting them down mercilessly, meaning that the entire Chaos force had been eliminated. For the Emperor!


Although my rolling was relatively good for me in this game, what really won it for me were the Plasma guns. Although they were effective in this game, if I had been playing an army such as Orks or 'Nids, I probably would have struggled, as I would not have been able to lay down enough firepower to kill them all.

Speaking of which, I should be playing another game against a 'Nid army on Sunday, I am going to make a few alterations to my list based upon what I have learned this game and I will post it just before the next game. Which I will post to this thread (hopefully with some pictures).

I'm a bit confused about how your shooting was so good on turn 1.

You said you were playing Dawn of War, which means everything moves on from reserves turn one (except 2 troops and HQ, optionally), and night figthing.

So first of all you should have been dealing with night fighting, and second, there shouldn't have been much chaos on the board until HIS turn 1...

yeah and did those tanks outflank turn 1 or just move along the edge?

akaean wrote:I'm a bit confused about how your shooting was so good on turn 1.

You said you were playing Dawn of War, which means everything moves on from reserves turn one (except 2 troops and HQ, optionally), and night figthing.

So first of all you should have been dealing with night fighting, and second, there shouldn't have been much chaos on the board until HIS turn 1...

Ah, dang it, sorry about that. I didn't have a rulebook to hand so I had a guess at what it was called. It was actually Pitched Battle. Sorry about that. I understand where you are coming had it actually been Dawn of War, as that would have been pretty odd. I'll go back and change that now me-thinks.

cheapbuster wrote:yeah and did those tanks outflank turn 1 or just move along the table edge?

Just along the table edge.

cool, nice report

Well, if the oponent did the same thing, I consider it a wash. Effectivily, they both mis-played it so I don't consider it a tainted victory.

But the end result is still a win vs a good list. Congratulations Rampage!

I am glad Creed an Kell worked out for you, and don't dismiss the plasmas against hoard because of the rapid fire. If you don't move and they are within 12", you got 6 shots going in. Also, don't forget about 'First rank fire! Second rank fire!' for all your lasguns. 'BiD!' works against Monsterus Creatures, which is going to be /alot/ of the Nid stuff.

Sorry to hear the Executioners failed you that bad. You would think with 3 shots each one would have hit.

cheapbuster wrote:cool, nice report

Thanks.

BlkTom wrote:Well, if the oponent did the same thing, I consider it a wash. Effectivily, they both mis-played it so I don't consider it a tainted victory.

But the end result is still a win vs a good list. Congratulations Rampage!

I am glad Creed an Kell worked out for you, and don't dismiss the plasmas against hoard because of the rapid fire. If you don't move and they are within 12", you got 6 shots going in. Also, don't forget about 'First rank fire! Second rank fire!' for all your lasguns. 'BiD!' works against Monsterus Creatures, which is going to be /alot/ of the Nid stuff.

Sorry to hear the Executioners failed you that bad. You would think with 3 shots each one would have hit.

Yeah, we did miss play a bit , but we didn't mean to and it was a friendly and we both enjoyed the game and that's the most important thing. Thanks. I tried BiD whenever my HWSs were shooting at vehicles and Daemon Princes and that's one of the reasons why the Daemon Princes died pretty quickly, I really didn't want heavy weapons to miss. I'm going to use the executioners in the next game though, although they had a poor game this time my scatters were all over the place and I'm hoping that they may cause a bit more damage in the next game. I'm going to tweak the list a bit ready for the next game, and I'll post this in the army list section.