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Here are my proposed rules for a 'lesser'/rare aspect Shrine, referred to as the Slicing Orbs:

69pts _______ ELITES

Slicing Orb Aspect Warrior - WS: 4/ BS: 4/ S: 3/ T: 4/ W: 1/ I: 5/ A: 1/ Ld: 9/ 3+
Exarch - WS: 5/ BS: 5/ S: 3/ T: 4/ W: 1/ I: 6/ A: 2/ Ld: 9/ 3+

Unit Type: Infantry
Unit Composition: 3 Slicing Orbs
Wargear: Linked Plate Armour*, Shuriken Hip-Cannon*, Slicing Orbs*

Linked Plate Armour: A Heavier Version of the aspect warrior armour worn by many shrines, the linked plate armour sacrifices much of the Eldars natural manoeuvrability and grace in order to provide a greater level of protection and support for the Slicing Orb Aspect Warrior, without however losing the Eldar's typical elegant design and beauty. This confers +1 Toughness and a 3+ Armour Save, already included in their profile.

Shuriken Hip-Cannon: Thanks to the heavier Linked Plate Armour and a sophisticated support system, the Slicing Orbs are able to wield a lighter version of the notorious Shuriken Cannon, typically fired from the Slicing Orbs hip. This confers the following ranged weapon profile:
- Range: 24" – Strength 5 - AP 5. Assault 3.

Slicing Orbs: The symbolic and ritual armament of the Slicing Orb aspect warrior from which they derive their name. Slicing Orbs are sophisticated grenades, thrown by the warriors at close range to devastate enemy warriors. These grenades have their own projection device that allows them to fly further and hover slightly above the enemy when thrown, before detonating into a rain of deadly shuriken weaponry, slicing through any enemy standing under the shower of Shuriken blades. Once per game, each Slicing Orb aspect warrior may make an attack using the following ranged weapon profile; this may be used instead of any other ranged weaponry, but the unit may not assault afterwards. Furthermore, this attack scatters D3 inches.
- Range: 12" – Strength * - AP 5. Assault 1, blast, one-use. *A slicing Orb wounds any target under the blast marker on a roll of 2+.

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Options:

Up to 7 additional Slicing Orb Aspect Warriors may be taken for 23pts each.

A single Slicing Orb may be upgraded to an exarch for 12pts, who may select any of the following weapons:

- May replace the Shuriken Hip-Cannon with a Shuriken Catapult and Executioner - 10pts
- May replace the Shuriken Hip-Cannon with a pair of Broadblades, which are a pair of power weapons which allow the wielder to re-roll any failed to-wound roll - 10pts
- May select any of the following Exarch Powers:
Crack Shot: 10pts
Slicing Shower: 15pts - During any game turn, the entirety of the unit may add +1 to the number of shots fired from their Shuriken Hip-Cannons, but may not move if they do so: therefore becoming Heavy 4 Weapons.

May select a Waveserpent Dedicated Transport

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These guys are obviously a nod to the previously mentioned Eldar Aspect Warriors, the Slicing Orbs of Xandros; however this Aspect Warrior shrine has since spread from the Craftworld of Xandros. They are supposed to fulfil a role that I don't believe is done by any other Eldar Unit, in that they offer tougher, more resilient anti-infantry firepower, from a relatively slow infantry unit. Whilst they can pack some significant firepower, they are also relatively expensive and no tougher than your ordinary astartes, whilst fulfilling an anti-infantry role in a mech-heavy environment.

All C+C is welcome. Cheers.

Hi!

I feel like Slicing Orbs (weapon) should get a bit toned down. The amount of almost perfect blasts is huge. Pairing with 2+ to wound you have almost sure hit and wound weapon. Give it one use only and maybe scatter D6 but without BS reduction. Definitely change something about it. Also, how does it affect vehicles?

Plus, just for the right feel I think T should be 3(4). It doesn't change much (anything?) but it looks much better.

I like the idea.

I don´t know if they´d be that usefull in said mech environtment, but they would slaughter infantry for sure.

I would change the Orb weapon to either to a One-Shot weapon that can be used instead of the Catapults, or a weapon that can be used only by Exarches, more than once. Also, the scatter is a bit OTT, as you would need both a scatter result, and a 6 in order to make it scatter a single inch. I would change it to "scatters a single D6, but does not minus the BS value", or even standard scatter would be better.

The concept is okay, but the name, "Slicing Orbs" is horrible. Sounds like something you might see being sold on an infomercial.

Cheers for the feedback guys.

It's already a one-shot weapon (per man), however the feedback for it is reasonable. For it to be used instead of the hip-cannon sounds very reasonable to me, so I'll change it so it cannot be used alongside any other shooting weapons.
I feel it should be beared in mind that these Orbs are still only 12", one-use, AP5 and only work against infantry. That and the squads that take them would typically be relatively small...

So with that change in mind - and/or without - what do people think of the unit in general?

@Macok - Considering the T4/T3(4) doesn't really change much as you said, I may or may not change it, I haven't decided yet! Regarding vehicles, I will make it either a Str4 weapon in that case or that it has no effect.

@Khe-loc - yeah, it would only really be of use against tanks and IMHO that's part of Eldar and aspect warriors as a whole; that they are specialised and other needs are fulfilled by other units; the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.

@Augustus - the name already existed; they were mentioned as an aspect shrine in an older Eldar Codex; it's not my invention.

- Why do the orbs wound on a 2+? Are they poisoned? Why not give them a Strength value instead?

- The orbs should be an Exarch-only ability, or possibly a one time Multiple-Barrage ability involving every squadmember.

- Their guns are too powerful. They should either be Strength 4 or Assault 2... maybe Assault 2/Heavy 3. Or you could implement the Slow & Purposeful USR.

- If you leave them as they are now, maybe increase their cost by 2-4 points.

- I agree with Augustus. Even if they were mentioned in an older codex, the name makes me think of giant crystal balls with limbs. Do they really need that name? Can't their name be slightly different to that of their shrine?




Otherwise, I like this unit.

I_am_a_Spoon wrote:- Why do the orbs wound on a 2+? Are they poisoned? Why not give them a Strength value instead?

My reasoning behind the 2+ was so they're effective against more than your average infantry, but the enemy could still use their armour save. My thinking was that's it's effectively explosively-propelled shuriken, which are Str6 in a Shuriken Cannon; but I wouldn't want the anti-tank potential...

- The orbs should be an Exarch-only ability, or possibly a one time Multiple-Barrage ability involving every squadmember.

I'd personally rather it wasn't an exarch-only ability as whole orb thing is the main theme of the unit. Whilst a multiple barrage-ability is an idea, I feel that a one-use weapon for each individual shouldn't be too powerful due to A) Short range, B) one-use, C) little AP, D) no anti-tank and E) the cost of your average trooper; meaning there won't be many 'orbs being thrown. For example, a 5-man squad alone is 115pts and as I said, only as tough as a Space Marine...

- Their guns are too powerful. They should either be Strength 4 or Assault 2... maybe Assault 2/Heavy 3. Or you could implement the Slow & Purposeful USR.

I feared they may be seen as too powerful, but from a balance perspective I'm not sure they are. They're like a heavy bolter that sacrifices range and AP for manoeuvrability; ultimately I think they'd be a very weak unit if they were 'heavy' weapons. Heavy Bolters are typically only around 5pts for your average Marine and even then are considered fairly weak I'd find. Doing basic maths, a 5-man squad (115pts) would:
15 shots - 10 hits:
8.33' Guardsmen wounded; no saves = 8.33 dead. (AP 6 = 5.55' dead)
8.33' Tau wounded; 4+ save = 4.16 dead.
6.66' MeQ wounded; 3+ save = 2.2 dead.

I could drop the AP to 6 I guess?

Otherwise, I like this unit.

Cracking. That's probably the most important thing to me at the moment; the people think the idea is fine; the rules were very much unpolished when I typed 'em. so that's good to know...

It seems a bit odd to me that the weapon for which they are named isn't their main weapon - which is that hip-cannon. It just seems wrong.

@Just Dave: Don't get me wrong, I really like the unit, and you've obviously put a fair bit of thought into them too.

1. If the Orbs aren't powerful enough to damage vehicles, then maybe they shouldn't wound C'tan on a 2+. You could always make them Strength 4/5, or add a special rule that modifies their Strength when attacking vehicles.

2. The main reason I think a multiple-barrage ability would be better is the difficulty of tracking one-shot abilities, and the "cool" factor of a grenade volley. Tell you what... why not let each SO choose whether to fire its Shuriken Hip-Cannon or throw an Orb each Shooting Phase?

3. It's absolutely true that their weapons are about on-par with the common Heavy Bolter, but remember that it's very rare to field a unit armed entirely with such weapons. It's 5 points for Marines because it interferes with the mobility of the entire squad. Unless they're Devastators, in which case they pay 10 pts, I think. Maybe make them Assault 2/Heavy 3 (meaning they can choose)?

Martiler wrote:It seems a bit odd to me that the weapon for which they are named isn't their main weapon - which is that hip-cannon. It just seems wrong.

That's because I can't imagine them using a grenade as their main weapon. Similarly, it's their signature attack, not their main. Much like the Howling Banshees or Striking Scorpions; their attacks are with CCW's rather than their infamous helmets...

I_am_a_Spoon wrote:@Just Dave: Don't get me wrong, I really like the unit, and you've obviously put a fair bit of thought into them too.

Cheers man, it's appreciated. Honestly however, I haven't put that much thought into them; only the core aspect with the Shuriken Hip Cannons had I thought about in any real depth before!

1. If the Orbs aren't powerful enough to damage vehicles, then maybe they shouldn't wound C'tan on a 2+. You could always make them Strength 4/5, or add a special rule that modifies their Strength when attacking vehicles.

I figured it balances out vs. C'tan's and the like, not only as a result of their usually high save, but that because they're blast weapons, you're unlikely to be able to land that many wounds on them, unlike if it was a traditional weapon. I'm going to give the Orb aspect some more thought however...

2. The main reason I think a multiple-barrage ability would be better is the difficulty of tracking one-shot abilities, and the "cool" factor of a grenade volley. Tell you what... why not let each SO choose whether to fire its Shuriken Hip-Cannon or throw an Orb each Shooting Phase?

My thinking here was that it wouldn't be any more difficult than say, tracking wounds on multiple wound models. Due to the cost of the models they're unlikely to be fielded in large numbers too IMHO.

3. It's absolutely true that their weapons are about on-par with the common Heavy Bolter, but remember that it's very rare to field a unit armed entirely with such weapons. It's 5 points for Marines because it interferes with the mobility of the entire squad. Unless they're Devastators, in which case they pay 10 pts, I think. Maybe make them Assault 2/Heavy 3 (meaning they can choose)?

Well, for Long Fangs it's 5pts and it still isn't taken!
I showed the math earlier in the thread and I still don't think they're unreasonably powerful, particularly when they are moved out of their comfort zone and have to target armoured enemies. I may make it AP6 though...

I'm working on a better name too!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Does Sundering Orbs sound better?

Sounds like the orbs are D-weaponry, though if so they'd do pretty damned horrible things to vehicles as well.

Having the orbs be one-use seems a bit iffy since it's the aspect's primary function, where as these seem to offer more in the way of Shuriken weaponry.

I'd say these sound more like a likely candidate for the Crystal Dragons (again, not a made-up name, but taken from official GW canon). Just ditch the orbs and mount the shuriken weapons Reaper-style on the lower arm.

Oh, and loaning from Dark Eldar, Slicing Shower would make the weapon Heavy 5.

(How about this for the orbs?: R12 SX Ap2 Assault 1 Slicing - wounds/glances on 3+, for each hit one additional attack may be made, no single orb may hit the same model more than once, each consecutive extra attack is at -1 cumulative to hit. This sounds a lot more powerful than it really is.)

How about making the Orbs a large blast weapon with the current stats and scattering D3-6 inches?
If it's a blast for every 5 men, then you're only able to unleash 2 of these for 230pts!

With large blast, it can represent multiple orbs being thrown, whilst being easier to keep track of and significantly less threat to Monstrous Creatures and the like. If this ignores cover, is short range and is thrown instead of using the cannons, that'd be pretty good IMHO. Thoughts?

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Mahtamori; I do not know what that slicing shower from the DE is.
The Shuriken hip cannon is support to be used on the lower arm, but support on the hip also; like the Smart Guns from aliens.
I didn't recall the Crystal Dragons having a description within Path of the Warrior however? Correct me if i'm wrong...

Haha, Just Dave, that's just me being a cake and not proof-reading. I believe it's Splinter Cannons that are either Assault 3 or Heavy 5.

Crystal Dragons don't have a description, no, but the name implies density or defense, imo.

I definitely prefer the 2 large blast idea, and like that I wouldn't mind playing against them even if it wasn't 'one use only' for those points, seems a lot more reasonable, the potential for hits with a tightly packed unit would be huge with 10 blasts as you could be wounding the same model loads of times. I know you would rarely use all at once but still...

Love the concept, I get visions of the armour looking like a cross between dark eldar and dark reapers in style.