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Codex Marines 1000 points

HQ
Chaplain 135 points
Terminator Armour
Combi Flamer

Troops
Scouts (5): 135 points
Sgt. Telion
4 Snipers
Missile Launcher


Tactical Squad (10): 225 points
Flamer
Missile Launcher
Sergeant has:
Power Sword
Combi-Flamer
Melta Bombs
Rhino
Storm Bolter

Tactical Squad (10): 245 points
Flamer
Heavy Bolter
Sergeant has:
Combi-Flamer
Power Fist
Melta Bombs
Rhino
Storm Bolter.

+++++++++++++
Combat Squad the 2 Tactical Squads and
put Sergeant, flamer, and 3 boltguns in Rhinos.
+++++++++++++

Heavy Support
Predator: 165 points
Twin Linked Lascannon
Side sponson Lascannons

Predator 95 points
Autocannon
Side Sponson Heavy Bolters
Storm Bolter

1000 points.
I hope my math is right.
C&C welcome.

What is the chaplin going to do for you? Walk around looking all grumpy? The chaplin is totally useless in this list since he cant be using any transport. If you really want to go with a Chaplin then atleast take Cassius, he is cheaper, more survivable and killier


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for the rest, 2 full tacticals is more than enough. Drop the scouts. The lascannon pred is way too pricy. Either take a ACHB pred or a ACLC pred. Dont take the useless 10pts storm bolter upgrade.

Chaplain was going to give fearless, I'll take him out of termy armor so he can take transport.
Scouts I keep unless I have an army that uses meatshield tactics (orks) and I have 2 preds to provide anti infantry and anti tank support. I could Put lascannons and HB on one but what would I do with the extra points?

Its the lascannon turret thats overcosted. The Lascannon+HB combo is the worst possible combo. Not sure what you are saying about the scouts?

Also, the points are wrong on your Power weapon tactical squad, its 235pts.

Heavy bolters on tacticals are useless as well. The ML is much much better.

If you are dead set on running a Chaplin I would consider something like this.

HQ:
Chaplin Cassius = 125

Troops:
10xTacticals (MM,MG,Combi-M,PF) = 245
Rhino = 35

10xTacticals (ML, Flamer,Combi-F) = 180
Rhino = 35

Elites:
Dread (2xTL-Auto) = 125

Dread (TL-Auto) = 115

Heavy:
ACHB Pred = 85

ACHB Pred = 85


Just bear in miind that the chaplin (even cassius) is a pretty horrible choice

What would you reccomend for HQ? I hade MotF but when I took away a dev squad he looked kind of useless. I don't really want a named character but I guess I could take one.

As for the preds, I could take it down to only one, but I currently don't need the points.

The Libby is the best HQ choice in the SM codex. Not much of a competition at all really

Hellwolf wrote:As for the preds, I could take it down to only one, but I currently don't need the points.

Hellwolf wrote:what would I do with the extra points?

You always need points. There are no extra points. Every point you don't spend on stupid stuff, you can spend on more good stuff.

Like I said in one of these threads, there's an argument for every type of predator but at such low points you're almost certainly best off with AC/HB. You can get two for the price of one annihilator and that makes a big difference at 1000pts because they contribute more than just the shots they fire. You can use them to screen troops, spearhead an armored column, block enemy units and tank shock. Annihilators can do this too, but not really, because their guns are far too valuable to not fire and they will usually be too far from the action anyway. It's also half as efficient because they're twice as expensive.

Annihilators are awesome as duck though.

About the chaplain riding in a rhino, remember rhinos take 10 guys now, not 11. Even in power armour he can't ride anywhere unless you combatsquad. It's the same with every HQ but worth mentioning. Also, basically no HQ is worth his points unless he is vulkan or a librarian. At 1000pts It's about getting off as cheap as possible so you can spend the points somewhere else. Because of this and his awesome powers, a librarian is generally the best HQ. However, at lower points there's usually going to be less need for him. Not as many invulnerable saves around so mostly he does the gate objective jump thing. If you can deploy him to good effect and you're fighting stuff he can beat, cassius could possibly be a better buy, although he is more expensive.

By now your list looks pretty good, apart from the storm bolters. They really are a bad use of points.

Numbers are wrong with your Scouts. Telion replaces the Scout Sgt so you have him with 3 Scouts with sniper rifles, not 4, plus the ML.

Codex Marines 1000 points

The much revised product:

HQ
Librarian 100 points
The Avenger
Smite

Troops
Scouts (5): 135 points
Sgt. Telion
3 Snipers
Missile Launcher


Tactical Squad (10): 215 points
Flamer
Missile Launcher
Sergeant has:
Chainsword
Combi-Flamer
Rhino

Tactical Squad (10): 230 points
Flamer
Heavy Bolter
Sergeant has:
Combi-Flamer
Power Fist
Melta Bombs
Rhino

+++++++++++++
Combat Squad the 2 Tactical Squads and
put Sergeant, flamer, and 3 boltguns in Rhinos.
+++++++++++++

Heavy Support
Predator 100 points
Autocannon
Side Sponson Heavy Bolters
Storm Bolter
Dozer Blade

Elites
Dreadnought 145 points
Missile Launcher
TL Lascannon

Techmarine 75 points
Servo Harness

1000 points
Techmarine was just something that looked cool, could be swapped out.
Librarians' Smite could be swapped out for whatever, however, I want to keep The Avenger
The plan was to get as much flamers in the rhinos as I can, drop the 2 groups at 8", 12 boltguns shots and 6 flamer templates plus both the rhinos
The half of the tac squad that got the ML will provide long range support, The dread anti tank and the predator will kill any infantry.
I'm not sure if the ML on the dread is TL or not. I quote "Replace Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with: twin linked Autocannon or Missile Launcher". Does this mean that TL is over both weapon options or just the autocannon?

Yeah drop smite, it's like the worst power ever. Get gate or NZ or might or literally anything else. Having two shooting attacks is just a waste.

Only the AC is twinlinked to my knowledge, but the wording is ambiguous enough that people could discuss it forever. No dread has ever had TL missile launchers though afaik.

Hey, Hellwolf.

My marine army is actually rather similar, so I've faced many of the same choices you are right now.

I get your plan with the Rhino flamer squads, and in general terms I approve. However, in my (admittedly limited) experience, flamers are one of those things that you generally get to use once per game. Personally, I'd keep the combi-flamers on the sarges but get meltaguns or plasma for your special weapons. Much more versatile overall.

I'd also suggest you drop both the Techmarine and Telion. Use the points saved to get another predator and buy your scouts camo cloaks. While Telion is cool (based on your avatar and lists I'd venture to say you think so, too), at this point level he is basically bling. Sniper scouts, especially in small units, aren't that great. Their job should be to sit on an objective or ruin and be just annoying enough to distract your opponent without drawing lots of fire. With camo cloaks, they'll be very hard to dislodge with shooting alone, but will be too cheap to commit a nasty assault unit to (hopefully). Having the two preds AND a dread will mean that your opponent will have three very threatening targets for his anti-armor weapons (which will be few at 1000 points to begin with). Thus, your opponent is faced with the choice of shooting your killy tanks and walker or your squishy Rhinos. Whatever his decision, you can make him pay for making it. Target saturation!

I'm not sure if the ML on the dread is TL or not. I quote "Replace Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon with: twin linked Autocannon or Missile Launcher". Does this mean that TL is over both weapon options or just the autocannon?

The missile launcher is NOT twin-linked. It would specify "Twin-Linked Missile Launcher" if it were.

Hope that's some help. Take with the usual grain of salt and all that.

Cheers!

The more cheap tanks you can field the better imho. I have really bad experiences with walkers so the dread so I'd go with another AC/HB Pred than the dread. YMMV though.

If you're worried about anti tank capabilities slap some HK missles on your tanks. Yeah they are one shot for ten points but they also provide you with another weapon so you don't get immobilized from a weapon destroyed result as quickly.

If you ditch the techmarine and dread you can take 3 AC/HB preds, REALLY go tank heavy. Maybe even spring for razorbacks instead of rhinos. At 1000pts 5 SM tanks would be a little intimidating for an opponent.

Also, I agree with ted on the ML over the HB. The ML has a lot more flexibility which can be beneficial in a low point game.

I was thinking of getting Force Dome for the librarian, it might be terrible but it looks cool. Please correct me if I am wrong

Mediocrates wrote: flamers are one of those things that you generally get to use once per game

I doubt that after 6 flamers and 12 boltguns plus the rhino weapons plus an assault (with a force weapon), whatever I'm attacking will be able to finish me off. I've seen a five man tac squad with a flamer and 4 boltguns take out about 14 orks in the assault. Thanks anyway but I think I'll stick with the flamers.
Telion I have also used to my advantage; he's devastating to any race that uses meatshield tactics.
I will drop the techmarine but I have a question about him: with a servo harness, he's got a TL plasma weapon, a flamer and whatever is in his hand, does he only get 1 shot or a shot with all of these weapons?
Thanks for all the help with the ML thing.
I actually really like walkers so I think I'll keep the dread. Between 3 ML and a lascannon, I'm not really worried about anti tank capabilities.
I am thinking of taking another AC/HB pred with the leftover points from the techmarine.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Codex Marines 1000 points

HQ
Librarian 100 points
The Avenger
Force Dome

Troops
Scouts (5): 135 points
Sgt. Telion
3 Snipers
Missile Launcher

Tactical Squad (10): 220 points
Flamer
Missile Launcher
Sergeant has:
Combi-Flamer
Chainsword
Melta Bombs
Rhino

Tactical Squad (10): 220 points
Flamer
Missile Launcher
Sergeant has:
Combi-Flamer
Chainsword
Melta Bombs
Rhino

+++++++++++++
Combat Squad the 2 Tactical Squads and
put Sergeant, flamer, and 3 boltguns in Rhinos.
+++++++++++++

Heavy Support
Predator 90 points
Autocannon
Side Sponson Heavy Bolters
Dozer Blade

Predator 90 points
Autocannon
Side Sponson Heavy Bolters
Dozer Blade

Elites
Dreadnought 145 points
Missile Launcher
TL Lascannon


1000 points
Feel free to comment on Librarians psychic powers, but I would like to keep the avenger
The plan was to get as much flamers in the rhinos as I can, drop the 2 groups at 8", 12 boltguns shots and 6 flamer templates.
The half of the tac squad that got the ML will provide long range support, The dread anti tank and the predators will be anti infantry.

Force dome can be good, but it's pretty situational. You can't go around casting it every turn to get a 5++ save against stray plasma shots. When your unit is looking at a real pasting next turn it can be a lifesaver, but that doesn't happen with every list. For example a tactical squad sitting on an objective in the open, or a sternguard squad drop podding into an IG parking lot. Overall I'd say take something else, the 5++ save isn't going to do a whole lot unless you're taking volumes of AP fire, which won't happen much at 1000pts.

Avenger is a popular power because it works against marines like a regular flamer works against light infantry. Wound on 3+, no armour or cover save. It's nice but more so if you play against marines. Most librarians I've seen use avenger as the second power behind the awesome null zone. NZ is never a bad pick so you should consider it, but gate of infinity might yield more concrete results. You can always switch these around and experiment though since they don't cost any points. Might of ancients is nice too, it can let you take out a vehicle easily or a wounded MC.

Pretty sure the techmarine can fire two weapons per shooting phase. Don't know if one has to be carried or if he can use the flamer and PP. Don't have a page quote : P

I don't really like Null zone because I've never fought psykers. I really don't see the need for it. I like invulnerable saves because I get lost of Power fists and Klaws. I'll have a good look at librarian powers soon

Hi,
Null zone is good against enemy who has invul save, if you cast it, in 24" he must reroll his succesfull invul saves . As for rest of your list, this looks nice, but it looks like anti horde list, you have only 1 TL LC on dread and melta bombs with Sgts. Make 1 of your Tac squad melta squad with meltagun and MM, dread is too expensive, best load for him if you want use him as fire support is 2x TL AC, but for 120 pts you can have another predator with AC and LCs sponsons with nice armor and solid long range fire support and 25pts save. In 1000pts army 2 full tac groups + scouts is too much infantry IMO, keep 2 tac groups and drop scouts or if you realy want telion and his scouts drop some extras from your Tacticals. Very popular load for tac groups is meltagun/MM and flamer/ML in rhinos, drop melta bombs, if you take combi weapons for Sgt. pistols are better then chainswords, you can fire with pistol and assault, sword is good only if you take it with another CC weapon for+1A in CC.

The new list is looking much better, and easily tweeked depending on what you're going against.

Unless I missed something in the servo harness rules the techmarine can still only shoot one weapon a turn. He has more available to choose from so can better adapt to the situations.

Okay, take 4:
Codex Marines 1000 points

HQ
Librarian 100 points
The Avenger
Null Zone

Troops
Tactical Squad (10): 295 points
Flamer
Multi Melta
Sergeant has:
Combi-Flamer
Powersword
Melta Bombs
Razorback
TL Heavy Flamer
Dozer Blade

Tactical Squad (10): 295 points
Flamer
Missile Launcher
Sergeant has:
Combi-Flamer
Powersword
Melta Bombs
Razorback
TL Heavy Flamer
Dozer Blade


+++++++++++++
Combat Squad the 2 Tactical Squads and put Sergeants, flamers, librarian and 6 boltguns in 2 different Razorbacks.
+++++++++++++

Heavy Support
Predator 90 points
Autocannon
Side Sponson Heavy Bolters
Dozer Blade

Predator 90 points
Autocannon
Side Sponson Heavy Bolters
Dozer Blade

Predator 130 points
Autocannon
Side Sponson Lascannons
Hunter Killer Missile
Dozer Blade

1000 points
The plan was to get as much flamers in the rhinos as I can, drop the 2 groups at 8", 12 boltguns shots and 6 flamer templates.
The half of the tac squad that got the ML will provide long range support, The dread anti tank and the predators will be anti infantry.
I'm not sure what use TL has on flamers as they don't roll to hit, but they're flamers so I'm not arguing.
I swapped out the rhino for razorbacks because instead of 4 storm bolter shots I get either 6 TL HB shots or 2 TL HF templates.