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Back in my day 40K was divided into evil (most of the factions) and super-crazy-evil which consisted of Tyranid, Chaos and Necrons. Not sure Necrons are super-evil anymore. Sure, they have some super-evil individuals now, but the same can be said of the IoM. Organizationally they're a little Orky now: not united in the quest to destroy all life anymore but rather made up of many discontinous empires. They're Imperialistic but so are the Tau.
The Silent King actually wants to fight against the Tyranids so that all life in the galxy isn't destroyed.
So what do we make of these Newcrons? Are they just another race trying to do their best in a big scary galaxy?

They never were. They were part of the Forces of Order.

DarknessEternal wrote:They never were. They were part of the Forces of Order.

Their "Order" was the destruction of all living things. That usually puts you on the evil side of the ledger.

the silent king wants to kill the tyranids so they don't kill necrons. he doesn't care if they take the other races with them. they are still evil yes. super-evil, eh maybe. they want to be worshiped more than be the only existing life. they believe they are the best and deserve it. Yay race wide narcissism!

Hammer18 wrote:the silent king wants to kill the tyranids so they don't kill necrons. he doesn't care if they take the other races with them. they are still evil yes. super-evil, eh maybe. they want to be worshiped more than be the only existing life. they believe they are the best and deserve it. Yay race wide narcissism!

Well, you could say the silent king doesn't want the 'nids to harvest all life because he wants to harvest it first. Still, you could say the same of Humanity and Tau.

Short answer: yes.

Humanity: destroy all non humans, so yeah ur right there. tau: join us...... or you Die! ork: kills everything(including self)
Dark eldar: tortures to death
Eldar: thinks all idiots and evil people should die.
necron: worship us or you die
all races are somewhat genocidal.
i count necrons as super evil just for the whole maxed out narcissism and resentment they have

Are Necrons evil? Perhaps. That all depends on your perspective. From everyone but the Necrons and scholars, they do nothing but kill and wreak havok. From those who are knowledgeable, the Necrons are more Chaotic Neutral/Evil.

You see, the Necrons hate Chaos. And the Old ones. So, what populates the galaxy at this time? You guessed it, things that Chaos feeds on and the remnants of the Old Ones, who try to kill them. They're defending themselves, and trying to do what they have always done.

Save the galaxy from itself.

Hammer18 wrote:i count necrons as super evil just for the whole maxed out narcissism and resentment they have

If that's the definition then Humanity and Eldar are super-evil too.

That's what I mean though. Necrons are now morally on par with the Imperium.

They are still a pretty horrible, grimdark faction. Yeah, some of them have "honor" now, but only in a lawful evil kind of way, and since they consider every other life form to be little more than pests it doesn't get in the way too much.

There is no necron lord fluffed out who is anything but a monster by any measure. All the leaders are guilty of forcably robbing all their subjects of free will, and even thought. Their goals may be a little more broad now, but never anything close to altruistic, except perhaps maybe the silent king.

They harvest other life forms en mass and subject them to the most horrific experiments they can imagine. They consider all life to be a resource at best, mere detritus on average, and something to be eradicated at worst.

Their views of the galaxy range from personal playpen to personal science experiement to personal bonzai bush to personal property. They have a total lack of empathy for any life form besides themselves. Even the vast majority of their own people are below their notice or care.

The Silent King may, MAY, be an exception, and the only one at that. And if so it is only because after he sacrificed his subjects, his race, his soul, his peoples souls, his peoples free will, and then had 60 million years to ponder and watch as the entire galaxy descended into madness and destruction due to his decisions, he MIGHT have recognized he made some bad decisions. Now the best he can do is futiley push back against the tide of darkness and destruction he unleashed upon the galaxy.

Yeah, they are still bad guys. They are just a more colorful group of bad guys now.

i agree with kamakazecanuck necrons have lost their pure and chaotic evilness and that does dissapoint me slightly...

riplikash wrote:They are still a pretty horrible, grimdark faction. Yeah, some of them have "honor" now, but only in a lawful evil kind of way, and since they consider every other life form to be little more than pests it doesn't get in the way too much.

There is no necron lord fluffed out who is anything but a monster by any measure. All the leaders are guilty of forcably robbing all their subjects of free will, and even thought. Their goals may be a little more broad now, but never anything close to altruistic, except perhaps maybe the silent king.

They harvest other life forms en mass and subject them to the most horrific experiments they can imagine. They consider all life to be a resource at best, mere detritus on average, and something to be eradicated at worst.

Their views of the galaxy range from personal playpen to personal science experiement to personal bonzai bush to personal property. They have a total lack of empathy for any life form besides themselves. Even the vast majority of their own people are below their notice or care.

The Silent King may, MAY, be an exception, and the only one at that. And if so it is only because after he sacrificed his subjects, his race, his soul, his peoples souls, his peoples free will, and then had 60 million years to ponder and watch as the entire galaxy descended into madness and destruction due to his decisions, he MIGHT have recognized he made some bad decisions. Now the best he can do is futiley push back against the tide of darkness and destruction he unleashed upon the galaxy.

Yeah, they are still bad guys. They are just a more colorful group of bad guys now.

Most of that would apply to the Imperium too.

Yeah...and? The imperium pretty much maxed out the evil regime o meter.

Was not actually aware that there are good guys.

riplikash wrote:Yeah...and? The imperium pretty much maxed out the evil regime o meter.

Bah. Overall the Imperium is not evil. There are the High Lords of Terra (which are pretty over-bearing and fear-inducing tyrants) and local governments throughout the Imperium that rule with an iron fist. But I don't think the Imperium is evil.

The Emperor and his Primarchs had nothing but good intentions by reclaiming the galaxy from ravenous xenos scum. (I'm a true believe, did you notice?)

riplikash wrote:Yeah...and? The imperium pretty much maxed out the evil regime o meter.

Thought you might be an Imperium apologist for a minute. Nevermind.

This is warhammer, at best a faction is neutral aggressive

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:They never were. They were part of the Forces of Order.

Their "Order" was the destruction of all living things. That usually puts you on the evil side of the ledger.

Yes, but they have no Warp presesce. All living things with emotion, even the most pious Imperial, still feeds Chaos. So in a way, Necrons are the only real good guys because only they can truly defeat Chaos.

They shifted from Chaotic Evil to Lawful Evil.

*Edit*
Damn it, I see someone beat me to this statement.

The Necrons were never chaotic evil....They're more chaotic now if anything, now that their Lords have the control. They used to represent perfect order...I'd say they're still lawful evil as they were, if to a lesser extent.

I think they shifted from lawful evil to lawful neutral.

BrainDeleted wrote:The Necrons were never chaotic evil....They're more chaotic now if anything, now that their Lords have the control. They used to represent perfect order...I'd say they're still lawful evil as they were, if to a lesser extent.

Considering they were guided by the star gods to harvest all life on every planet in the galaxies simply to feed their gods hunger and exact vengeance on everyone, I'd say they were pretty darn chaotic evil. They're not chaotic now because they DO have order now that their more sentient and cunning lords are awakened and guiding them to a greater goal of over-taking the galaxy. There's nothing chaotic about what they're doing now, it's all very calculated.

They were perfectly unified in their desire to destroy everything and true the Galaxy into a very orderly assortment of rocks and stars. Nothing chaotic about it.

Your thinking Dawn of War Necron fluff, not actual Necron fluff.

Actual Necron fluff had them havesting life, acting on behalf of c'tan, randomly waking up and breaking crap, or doing whatever their necron lords told them. The Necron lords DID exist already, btw, personalities and all. They just didn't get as much focus. I'm really not sure how you could argue they represented order.

BrainDeleted wrote:They were perfectly unified in their desire to destroy everything and true the Galaxy into a very orderly assortment of rocks and stars. Nothing chaotic about it.

Anarchists are unified in their goal to destroy as well, but they're definitely chaotic. Unity =\= order.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

riplikash wrote:Your thinking Dawn of War Necron fluff, not actual Necron fluff.

Actual Necron fluff had them havesting life, acting on behalf of c'tan, randomly waking up and breaking crap, or doing whatever their necron lords told them. The Necron lords DID exist already, btw, personalities and all. They just didn't get as much focus. I'm really not sure how you could argue they represented order.

Yes, I know the lords did exist and were sentient, that's why I said the "more" sentient lords are now awakening. They're much more clever and devious than the previous lords.

Kevin949 wrote:

BrainDeleted wrote:They were perfectly unified in their desire to destroy everything and true the Galaxy into a very orderly assortment of rocks and stars. Nothing chaotic about it.

Anarchists are unified in their goal to destroy as well, but they're definitely chaotic. Unity =\= order.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

riplikash wrote:Your thinking Dawn of War Necron fluff, not actual Necron fluff.

Actual Necron fluff had them havesting life, acting on behalf of c'tan, randomly waking up and breaking crap, or doing whatever their necron lords told them. The Necron lords DID exist already, btw, personalities and all. They just didn't get as much focus. I'm really not sure how you could argue they represented order.

Yes, I know the lords did exist and were sentient, that's why I said the "more" sentient lords are now awakening. They're much more clever and devious than the previous lords.

which is why my post which mostly agreed with yours was in response to the poster who posted after you.

What...What do anarchists have to do with destroying things? Besides the idea of a state...?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism

The old Necrons were paragons of order? I'm not sure what 'Dex you're reading...They followed their leaders unquestioningly. I mean, they had no free will. They were, by nature, lawful. Destroying everything ≠ Chaotic. They wanted to wipe all the varying sources of disorder from the galaxy...Pretty much life itself.

cha·os
noun
1. a state of utter confusion or disorder; a total lack of organization or order.

Their motivation to 'destroy everything' does not make them chaotic. The old Necrons are the direct opposite to the actual definition of the word chaos. They would achive pure, absolute order by destroying all life in the galaxy, and lacked free will. They are the ultimate, uncaring embodiment of order. And that was what made them so awesome. They are not more ordered in their new incarnation, and that is why I just deny the existance of the new background.

If tyranids harvested all life and turned it into more life, does that mean necrons can still just harvest all life by killing the tyranids?

Also, do tyranids have a presence in the warp? I.e. if eveything was a tyranid, would chaos still exist?

They were previously part of super evil, even if they had their own version of "order" in mind. Eradicating all life and feeding it to sadistic Star Gods = super evil.

Now they're roughly the same as the Eldar, imo. You get aggressive and cruel Eldar but you also get aggressive/cruel Necrons. Imperium often fights Eldar but also allies with them, the same can now be true for the Newcrons. They have a strong sense of honor however, which is something the Eldar don't seem to value with aliens in the least. This makes them looking better then the Eldar right now, if anything. After the Tau and maybe the Imperium they're probably the "best" faction. I think a good example is the Eldar giving an entire Imperial world just 1 day to evacuate its entire population before attacking, whereas the Necrons gave them a month because "the honor of battle dictates".

Ward has remade the Necrons into something else entirely, at their worst they're a localized sector-level threat while at their best they're reliable allies with strong sense of honor and respect. Gone are the days of the silent menace bent on destroying organic life.