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Has anyone tried this? My buddy and I were kicking around ideas last night about how to use them since there cool looking. Ok take 2 squads of 4 Grots with Urien and a Haemmy ancient in raiders. Move 12 forward and deploy everyone out front to make a line similar to killer kans. Than move them down the field providing cover and smashing transports and things as they go. S7 attacks on the charge is nothing to sneeze at. Keep venoms and raiders behind them moving and shooting. what do you guys think? I think it would be funny to wreck peoples rhinos and things with my ogre hulks running down the field.

I doubt it, but post a list

ok here is my idea for 2k

Urien 190
Haemmy ancient with VB 85

10 kabalites with a blaster and SC dedicated raider with ff 185
5 kabalites with a blaster dedicated venom with SC 125
5 kabalites with a blaster dedicated venom with SC 125
5 kabalites with a blaster dedicated venom with SC 125

4 Grotesques with S6 upgrade with an abberation with SH Dedicated raider with FF 255
4 Grotesques with S6 upgrade with an abberation with SH Dedicated raider with FF 255
3 trueborn with blasters dedicated venom with SC 146

5 scourges with 2 blasters 140

3 ravagers with FF 345

1976 totals put the hqs with the grots and let them move down the field 7-12 in providing cover saves for all my ships behind them until they can assault something

If you're gonna use Grots, it'd be a good idea to have liquifiers with them. Though I'm not all too familiar with Urien in general so I cant comment too much

Urien increases their strength and if you add the gun they lose an attack.. Im not sure a mediocre flamer is better then an addiftional str 7 attack.

Thats disgusting..... I love it though you seem to have enough points wise for 2 more trueborn no upgrades. I think lol

Draigo wrote:Urien increases their strength and if you add the gun they lose an attack.. Im not sure a mediocre flamer is better then an addiftional str 7 attack.

How does a Grot lose an attack? It only has one CCW

Plus not to mention that a liquifier helps make the unit diversified

Why does it need to be diversified? One guy different doesnt do much for wound allocation. I was thinking for aberrations.. They can get scissorhand etc.

One guy different means that the unit has to take 5 wounds before 1 model dies instead of 3 wounds before 1 model dies.

If you take an abberation, a grotesque with a liquefier gun and 2 regular grotesques the unit has to take 7 wounds before 1 model dies. 7 wounds against t5 feel no pain. Makes the unit ridiculously much harder to kill.

Also Liquefier guns are arguably the best flamers in the game. 50% of the time they're ignoring armour saves on marines. Of course, the Medusae flamer could be somewhat better but it is less consistent.

You're looking at a lot of money for Grosteques man.

You can also do this with hellions, except you can move up to 18 inches a turn instead of up to 12. In return you only get S5-6 instead of S6-7.

As for your list, I think your scourges are out of place. You'll have plenty of anti-tank with your grotesques. take more warrior venoms for AI.

Scissor hands are NOT good upgrades for grotesques. Against MEQ you're wounding on 2+ anyway. No need to handicap yourself to 3+ poisoned. Yes you get to reroll wounds but it ends up being pretty much the same damage. Nothing you need to spend points for. Take a venom blade instead.

You should also keep in mind that you already have 5+ cover saves on your vehicles. 4+ isn't going to make that much of a difference.

Logistically, I don't think using grotesques would work. They're slowed too much by difficult terrain. Also your venoms and raiders shooting from behind them have to be positioned just right or they won't be able to see past the grotesques, and odds are they'll only have one target.

Dark eldar use speed and evasiveness to their advantage. You're taking away both by marching up the field in the block. Dark eldar can't withstand a pummeling like orks can.

Yes I thought about the LGs and was torn on weather or not to use them. I took the scissorhand because it gives me an extra attack and I don't really care about wounding on the 3+ I wanted more S7 attacks on the charge. The scourge unit is mutli purpose with the shardcarbines they can easily take out infantry and its not like lances don't hurt infantry lol. I already have 4 venoms I believe that is enough.

And ur crazy if you think an extra +1 to save to my floating spikey cardboard ships isn't worth it. I know I might be new but I will take 50% chance of saving over 33% any day of the week.

Also you guys are failing to take the shock value into consideration. The whole time the other guy is pummeling my grots with shots my ravagers are blowing up other stuff.

Not all that important since they dont have an invuln and theres lots of ap 2 so really wound allocation isnt that important for a disposable squad.

Gdead909 wrote:
ok here is my idea for 2k

Urien 190

Obviously this is required.

Gdead909 wrote:
Haemmy ancient with VB 85

So maybe I'm missing something. Why does it have to be an ancient? Wouldn't a regular haemy work just as well? I'd get him a liquifier in either case.

Gdead909 wrote:
10 kabalites with a blaster and SC dedicated raider with ff 185

I'd make this one just like the others for 60pts back, and you get more anti-infantry.

Gdead909 wrote:
5 kabalites with a blaster dedicated venom with SC 125
5 kabalites with a blaster dedicated venom with SC 125
5 kabalites with a blaster dedicated venom with SC 125

Ok. Good.

Gdead909 wrote:
4 Grotesques with S6 upgrade with an abberation with SH Dedicated raider with FF 255
4 Grotesques with S6 upgrade with an abberation with SH Dedicated raider with FF 255

I wholeheartedly agree with thunderpanda here. Get an abaration with a venom blade and a liquifier per squad.

Gdead909 wrote:
3 trueborn with blasters dedicated venom with SC 146

I'd either go with 2 DL or 4 trueborn with blasters.

Gdead909 wrote:
5 scourges with 2 blasters 140

From a theme perspective these guys don't really fit. Wracks or more warriors to max out the troops would probably be more effective in the long run plus venoms add extra infantry kiling and blasters for tanks.

Gdead909 wrote:
3 ravagers with FF 345

Of course these are always good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I really do want to know how this works. As the codex says sometimes you just feel like fielding some big clunky units.

Ok as I said before with thunderpanda I wasn't sure about the LGs but I left the points there in case I wanted them and as a whole I feel the scissorhand will work better since it offers an extra attack. Wounding on a 2+ or 3+ isn't gonna matter when I am hitting rhinos where as the extra S7 attack on the charge will. I feel like four venoms in the backfield of bthis will be enough where if I need to the scourges will offer a ds option.

Honestly a scissor hand would work, but you should be needing 2s anyway on the charge so basically its a super cheap reroll for a venom blade. 4 venoms isn't alot when you consider that they will be getting shot at too. Hence the reason I suggested more troops for more venoms. That and 4 troops choices for DE is rather light. Yes I know 8 grots knocking on their doorstep is a distraction but you will still need as many troops as possible.

Basically I said drop the scourges for points for troops. Yeah you loose an anti-tank gun but you gain alot of infantry killing and another scorring unit.

Ok I can see your point on the scourges and I might change that. I don't get where you are getting the reroll for the venomb blade or scissorhand. With the SH I will get two extra attacks. Where does the reroll come in?

You just don't have enough troops to be competitive here. DE troops are super fragile, and I would never take less than 6 at 2k. Grotesques aren't all that great, especially because of GK. If you do want to use them, I'd probably suggest a webway portal based list. That way you could flood the opponent with Grotesques, Talos, and Wyches all at once.

Once again maybe this is the newb coming our in me. Isn't 6 all you can take total? And the whole point of this thread was to make a wall with them not use a web way. Have you ever try using them like this? I know gk are bad for this but I really don't want to scrap a whole idea cause one army is bad vs it. Every army has its stregnth and weaknesses. I am trying to think outside the box of the typical venom spam found on the net! Thanks for the input though

The rule with poison is that if the strength of the wielder is equal to or higher than the target you get rerolls to wound in close combat.

And you're right about the 2 attacks with the scissor hand I believe. In the army list it specifies that an abberation may "take any of the following" meaning that he's not substituting his CCW for the scissorhand. Then when the CCW and the scissorhand are combined it gives +2 attacks as shown in the weapon entry. I missed that and it could be a worthwhile investment. It should also be noted that given this scenario, taking a venom blade in addition to the abberation's CCW would confer +1 attack. So really it's only a 1 attack difference still.

Oh dang I must have missed that poison rule.

Ya I figured an extra attack on these monsters was worth ten points. I don't think anyone has really tried this yet. I will let ya guys know how it goes

You're going to have to watch out for S10 blasts. #1 target priority. Vindicators, Linked Fire Prisms, Maticores, IG Demolishers, Tau guns, Librarians w/ Vortex, Haemonculi w/ Dark Gate etc etc. Those will make/break the army.

Ok thanks man will try to keep that in mind. Now I have a question since urien has a clone field can't I negate some of those S10 hits?

Yes - he can but its still not going to be pretty.

I am going to go against the majority and say that 3-4 troops is fine - you should just be aiming to table the enemy rather then play for the mission.

I am hoping that my grots will limit the fire I take on my other vehicles and cut the mobility of the other army so my venoms and raider at the end can swoop in on objectives lol

Clone Field only applies to close combat according to its entry.

Ah, missed that!

Well I have my 6 rat ogre conversions figures on the way and bought one grotesque all I need is one more. I plan on using the actual grotesques as my upgrades and the rat ogres as the regular ones. If nothing else I will have some cray looking models lying around lol

Well my dreams have been shattered by reading more into it and realizing that despite the fact that grotesques are bigger than terminators there still only infantry not a MC. this list becomes a wasted weekend lol

Actually i don't agree with the list being a waste and yes the Grotesques are infantry not MC. However there are ways to use them and there was a fantastic list posted here on DakkaDakka some time ago. He had a very interresting build that he used. One thing is the idea how having them as a wall? What is the purpose of that? Rush them 24" forward on turn 1 insteed, turn 2 your opponent doesnt have much choice but to face them heads on. Also you don't really need more then 3 Grotesques in the unit, get 1 liquifier, 1 aberration and a normal one so you can wound allocate. But if you want 4 then bring 4. On top of this you bring 1 haemonculus to each squad. This way you will most likely start the game with 3 Pain tokens in the unit and we all know thats incredible good.

For Urien the guy who posted the amazing list had a cool idea. He used 9 Bloodbrides (6 should be enough thou) with 3 shardnets. This along with Uriens regen makes him pretty hard to eliminate. Also the bloodbrides with FNP are pretty good at tarpitting things, and yes you could use Wyches insteed but you want more Shardnets and you can't fit more then 1 + Urien into a raider.

This is a version of your list combined with how his looked, well its awesome and i want to play it myself


Urien
2 x Haemonculus: 2 x power weapon (You are lacking PW attacks in the grotesque units so this is a must, also str 4 with FC is working good.)

4 Grotesques: liquifier gun, aberration, raider with flickerfield and dark lance
4 Grotesques: liquifier gun, aberration, raider with flickerfield and dark lance
9 Bloodbrides: haywires, 3 x shardnets, syren with agoniser, raider with flickerfield and dark lance

(He ran units of 3 wracks in venoms & raiders but that is a bit crazy. You would be better of with warriors)

5 Warriors: blaster, venom with 2 SC
5 Warriors: blaster, venom with 2 SC
5 Warriors: blaster, venom with 2 SC
5 Warriors: blaster, venom with 2 SC
5 Warriors: blaster, venom with 2 SC

Ravager: flickerfield
RAvager: flickerfield
Ravager: flickerfield

2k


Well you won't have tons of AT thats for sure but you can smash things up in CC aswell. Get some immob vehicles for your grotesques to assault and you will be fine.

It is a small list but could work pretty well in a competetive envoirment. And also there is really no need to get a weapon on the aberration, try to keep these 2 squads as cheap as possible, you need to get more candy into the list to make it work. Also troops is the key as always with Dark Eldar. This one got 5 of them and it should be enough but perhaps dropping the syren with agoniser and get 3 wracks to hug a home objective insteed.

Try it you might like it.

Actually I like ur list I might try it but I might lose the fourth grot and take the scissorhand on the abberation. Or at least a venom blade. Venom blade gives me lots of rerolls to wound and scissorhand gives me an extra attack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe put aerosails on the grots raiders

Gdead909 wrote:Actually I like ur list I might try it but I might lose the fourth grot and take the scissorhand on the abberation. Or at least a venom blade. Venom blade gives me lots of rerolls to wound and scissorhand gives me an extra attack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe put aerosails on the grots raiders

Glad you liked it. Its a pretty cool armylist. I have not tried it out myself yet but i will soon enough.

Dropping one grotesque is a good choice. Even if i wouldnt bother with a weapon upgrade for the aberration its still better then running 4 models. With spare points i would probably give the raiders shock prow + torment grenade launchers. If you have any points left over after that or even drop the syren + agoniser to give all 5 venoms grisly trophies, cause having LD 8 is a pain and it is so many times one runs away from a objective at the wrong moment.


EDIT: I actually had to see what i would fit into the list if i mixed around a bit with the things i was aiming for. This is the result.


Urien
2 x Haemonculus: 2 x power weapon

3 Grotesques: liquifier gun, aberration, raider with flickerfield, shock prow, torment grenade launcher
3 Grotesques: liquifier gun, aberration, raider with flickerfield, shock prow, torment grenade launcher
9 Bloodbrides: haywires, 3 x shardnets, syren with agoniser, raider with flickerfield, shock prow, torment grenade launcher



5 Warriors: blaster, venom with 2 SC, grisly trophies
5 Warriors: blaster, venom with 2 SC, grisly trophies
5 Warriors: blaster, venom with 2 SC, grisly trophies
5 Warriors: blaster, venom with 2 SC, grisly trophies
5 Warriors: blaster, venom with 2 SC

Ravager: flickerfield
RAvager: flickerfield
Ravager: flickerfield

2k


So still no weapon on the aberration but that can be fixed with dropping the Syren from Bloodbrides. That gives you 30 points for 2 scissorhands.

Hehe now i really got to try this list out, might do so next game.