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sooo...

Some people asked me to post my tourney list on another thread but to avoid jacking that one I am just gonna' link to this one of thats possible.

So as requested, here it is. Note that it was requested or I probably wouldn't bother. Happy to chat about it if you like though.

Anyways here's my Tau list of ultimate awesomeness that no one can ever beat ever (dodges tomatoes). Lol.

I'll follow it upo with the "WHY

Tau Empire Roster - 2000 Tau

Heavy Support: Broadside Battlesuit (Team lead, multitracker, Advanced Stabilization)
2 Shield Drone

Heavy Support: Broadside Battlesuit (Team lead, multitracker, Advanced Stabilization)
2 Shield Drone

Heavy Support: Broadside Battlesuit (Team Lead, multitracker, Advanced Stabilization)
2 Shield Drone


6 Fire Warrior
1 Devilfish, Disruption Pod, Multi-Tracker, Smart Missile System, Targeting Array

6 Fire Warrior
1 Devilfish, Disruption Pod, Multi-Tracker, Smart Missile System, Targeting Array

6 Fire Warrior
1 Devilfish, Disruption Pod, Multi-Tracker, Smart Missile System, Targeting Array



6 Fire Warriors

10 Kroot Carnivore Squad +6 Hounds

10 Kroot Carnivore Squad +6 Hounds


4 Piranha Light Skimmer, Disruption Pod, Flechette Discharger, Fusion Blaster x4, Target Lock x3, Targeting Array x 4

9 Stingwings

8 Pathfinder
1 Devilfish, Disruption Pod

1 Commander Shas'el, Fusion Blaster, Hard-wired Multi-tracker, Stimulant Injector, Plasma Rifle, Positional Relay

As was said on the other thread at unfortunate length, I and Jazzpaintball who posted the thread have made use of a seldom used (though not unused) way to play. Heres the thread this was spawned from:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/433516.page

In any event, you can see that the list differs a ton from most Tau lists and indeed Jazzpaintballs also, but the way he fights is something I showed him and it works similarly in function if not form.

This is plan A. Understand that I already KNOW and dont need to be told that the army can be forced to alter its deployment, but the plan will not change much.

Broadsides:
My isolation units. Left to fire unabated, they will ALMOST inevtiably garner three KP's on their own, more if you let them. It's like German 88's aimed at Sherman tanks: game over, especially twin linked, hitting on 2's, AP 1. Nothing in 40K is a guarantee, but the opponent better treat it like it is, or he will be a victim of his own hubris more often than not. They scatter equidistant to the center and far corners and essentially dare the enemy to trade shots with them. I want the enemy to split up and attack them, so I ONLY deploy them with the commander and probably the Pathfinders themselves. Nothing else. This is important to the plan, though against some enemies, I'll deploy more, but not much more.

Shas'El:
Primary functrion is to be a nasty hedgehog against units that attempt to kill its Broadside. It acts like a bodyguard, taking wounds for it when it can. It acts as the gatekeeper, DISallowing the other units from coming on except 1 every turn. This is important because the units advancing on the Broadsides would have both better shooting and armored targets to go after and without better targets, the enemy's effrots are wasted on all BUT movement, save those who have range. Those with range stay back forming one pool. Those charging the corners create another and those to the center create another. So there can be four pools of enemies if things go to plan and nothing for them to hit save Broadised if they can reach (usually turn 3). Once the pools have isolated themselves, it is time to open the flood gates and kill the weakest links, then zoom to the objectives on that side and take it, contesting the rest. Tau win. =)

Pathfinders:
Assist in making the Broadsides deadly, especially against Land Raiders/Storm Ravens against which you need the help and often devote all three Broadsides to the task of its destruction. They can optionally be split into two squads of four if you put a unit of the FW's on foot and load them up later. It's a very viable plan. I don't do it because it would cost me a fast slot and I use all three slots.

Pathfinder Devilfish:
Used to stall reserves. It is usually the first and only reserve in turn 2. Getting it blown up in turn one might be bad, but getting it in turn 2 means I can now use it in turn 3 to benefit the Stingwings if needed. This minimizes the chances the Devilfish wll be harmed.

Kroot:
Diverting outflankers. If the enemy is progressing forward (or backwards), and if thats bad for me, they come in behind and start rushing objectives, forcing you to slow the advance, and send a rear guard to try deal with them fracturing the force further OR... if you ignore them they become a STR 4 firebase, preferably in trees and a legit threat to take your objectives! Regardless, they are brackets which forces the enemy to deploy more centrally. This helps limit the distance the enemy can travel becase it forces them along a narrower funnel OR they can just risk the Kroot. Some armies can do that. Some cant. Doesn't change the Kroots role: Fracture theenemy army and force action away from the Tau main lines. One alternate way to use them is as a firebase from the word go. Infiltrating them allows

Fire Warriors:
6 man unit stalls reserves further if necessary and with 30" range, It's not a bad little addition as the enemy approaches. Expect little from them but they stall when needed which is good. They are the last unit necessary for stalling, as all other units provide more essential functions and turn 4 is usually when the Flood Gates are opened.

Fire Warriors in Devilfish:
Take objectives. Devilfishes provide respectable firepower that is accurate and mobile. They tank shock well and AV 12 is great later i nthe game when the enemy anti-tank has been whittled some. Their disruption pods make them annoying to take down. They can effectively contest/take anything within about 30" of their board edge if they come on in turn 4, and 42" by turn 6. If objectives are closer, the Devilfishs and Fire Warriors inside can pour out a LOT of juice (UP TO a combined 72 STR 5 shots). This deluge is really bad for your health if you are...well...anyone. When the flood gates open, this is what that means. Imagine 25% of the enemy force taking that all at once in a quadrant and with no hope of help from theother sidee of the board. This is why isolation is important.

Stingwings:
They jump straight into terrain to get cover and then fire, or else drop in to contest VERY late in games. =). When an isolated transport gets ganked, what better way to say hello than Stingwings guided by Pathfinders. You often want to bring them in turn two, because in turn three the Pathfinders may get overrun. But if they haven't been, then you can hold off a little longer... Stingwings take a beating in cover better than Crisis suits and do nearly as much damage to MEQ. They are very very fast and add a great deterent against the 5-man units that festoon 40K now. They often will assassinate Longfangs (Pathfinders take away their save and add accuracy, then POW, gone.) This has the advantage of putting the Stingwings out on a wing where the enemy ranges and intervening terrain will allow them to hide or continue to harass to the end of the game often times. As assassins they excel.

Piranhas:
I take them in 4's. the Flechette dischargers are brutally effective, and the Fusion Blasters allow this unit to fire on FOUR separate targets, even though they are a Squadron. The passneger unit of Drones is an excellent shiled when you want a Monstrous creature dead. You fire while the drones get out and form a crescent blockade and then a fence to slow the thing down! an MC can be effectively "trapped" and not be able to move in its next turn, plus be forced to attack drones while the Piranhas ready to finish the job or move to contest. Piranhas are also fun decoys. While expensive, the enemy knows how fast they can get to MULTIPLE objectives at once. 4" coherency is tough to beat. Added to that is the fact that they can be held completely off the board until we have executed order 66 on your heavy supports with a slow dribble and then a gushing stream of shots.

The army is HIGHLY mobile.

One thing I can do when its called for (a plan B, so to speak) is I can literally spread out to ALL the far corners of the board and create a killing field that can contract at the right time. So for example, I can Outflank 2 kroot, Pathfinder Devilfish with Pathfinders in different corners, Deepstrike Stingwings and then of course the broadsides to the corners, to be followed by Devilfih Warriors, so that the enemy is stretched incredibly thin to go after all that. Range for them becomes a problem and they spend a LOT of the game trying to kill singular small units. This only works when the enemy cannot stay in midfield. Itoften wont work with Grey KNights unless its Drago wing or some very small model count force.

Anyways I will let you all comment if you like and I will try to answer.

Glad it works for you.... Not my cup of tea though... Me likey more big guns.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thanks for posting the individual point costs for everything. Now I don't need to buy the codex. Sweet! Oh btw have you read the 40k Army Lists posting guidelines?

Milisim wrote:Glad it works for you.... Not my cup of tea though... Me likey more big guns.

There are a lot of them in the list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Barksdale wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thanks for posting the individual point costs for everything. Now I don't need to buy the codex. Sweet! Oh btw have you read the 40k Army Lists posting guidelines?

I did...just now.

Any thoughts on the list, or its use? It has won five 5E tounies and I have a lot of ?Best Generals. It's working.

Thanks for posting. Its good to see different opinions.

Saying an army never loses on the Internet means you never play it.

Making your point of winning 5 tournaments doesn't prove anything since we don't know much. What armies did you draw, how good/bad were those players, what armies did you avoid drawing, is the local tournament scene large? Lots of questions that leave your claim without merit. Winning best general could be another question, since that judging is often subjective.

Unorthodox armies can win for a while until people see it a few times and realize they are not going to see what they were waiting for the first time. I would know all about that having a tau list from about a decade ago that worked off of marker lights before they were cool and seeker missiles. It was good for a few crushing victories until people saw it enough to adapt. Nothing in that list, or the one you posted screams out the ability to really adapt to players or bad dice.

Piccolo wrote:Saying an army never loses on the Internet means you never play it.

Making your point of winning 5 tournaments doesn't prove anything since we don't know much. What armies did you draw, how good/bad were those players, what armies did you avoid drawing, is the local tournament scene large? Lots of questions that leave your claim without merit. Winning best general could be another question, since that judging is often subjective.

Unorthodox armies can win for a while until people see it a few times and realize they are not going to see what they were waiting for the first time. I would know all about that having a tau list from about a decade ago that worked off of marker lights before they were cool and seeker missiles. It was good for a few crushing victories until people saw it enough to adapt. Nothing in that list, or the one you posted screams out the ability to really adapt to players or bad dice.

You DO understand that "winning all the time" was tongue in cheek right? There really was no reason to comment on that.. Just saying.

My question is: do you make your point by LOSING five tournies and NOT getting Best General? I think not. Best general isn't subjective. its pure battle points. The only reason I haven't won more tournesy is that my paint STINKS. So i will not apologize for success.

Further: the whole "who were your opponents" crap is crap. Sorry. I dont buy into that. I've played way too many games and GT's in too many states to even listen to that anymore. Let me answer simply: I don't think you'd have any problem generally praising our pool of local Generals after a few games with them. Not that I think it matters one bit, but there you go. he said she said. i know that Swiss pairing means you still gotta' beat someone who matters.

As for adaptability... I can get anywhere on the board, contest objectives, have good armor, and I have some big guns to help me pave the way. Unlike most Tau builds, i don't rely on AP to kill MEQ, but I have it. I bring a mass of fire power on isolated oppnents. I do not try to table you. So model to model comparisons and all that is meaningless as a whole. Mobility is the key weapon for this force and its strategy is to simply ignore the big hammer units and lead them as far from their friends as possible before hammering the other guys (or vice versa, whatever makes the most sense for that game, mission, terrain and opponent which are too variable to really get into).

Looks pretty good to me. I just have a few questions about your list.

1. The Devilfish. Why did you go with those particular upgrades? They're definitely more powerful than a "naked" Devilfish, but at such a high cost. You could easily drop 35 points off each transport by purchasing only disruption pods. You'd even gain more gun drones for bubble-wrapping, contesting, and the occasional pinning. Is the 6" extra range and 1 higher BS really worth 100+ points in your army?

2. The Piranhas. Disruption pods are amazing and dirt cheap, but I also don't really see how they're useful on your Piranhas. With fusion blasters, they're going to be within 12" of the enemy...so the pods won't work. And if they're not shooting (i.e. contesting an objective), they're probably going to have a flat-out cover save anyway. We're only talking 20 points, but every little bit counts. What are your thoughts?

3. The lack of high str weapons. This seems like a joke since you're packing 3 TL railguns (although even with TL, BS 3 isn't a sure thing). My main concern would be stopping an onslaught of transports or dealing with the parking lots. Assuming average luck, your broadsides should be able to neutralize 1-2 vehicles a turn. But practically nothing else in the army can even glance AV 12. How do you deal with the somewhat common lists that field 8+ vehicles?
Do you think the army would be more powerful with the addition of some cheap TL Missile Pod Suits?

Just to clarify, these definitely aren't meant as attacks on your army. I love the list and you're clearly an experienced and competent general. I'd just like to know a little more about your choices and

I took no offense. You aren't the first to say any of it (of course).

Devilfish's: Two reasons. First is, if forved to deploy them (usually against hordes) I need no line of sight. This is good. Also it acts effectively like 10 Fire warriors on the move without exposing firewarriors (accuracy upgrade). They can blow up Speeders while both are going towards objectives. But the BIGGEST reason is the flood gate concept. Put simply I want and need to annihilate the isolated unit(s) I select. When those things come roaring on, en masse, It's a terribly effective fusilade. So you are right. I could save points for sure but I don't think with my style of play that the Drones are worth the extra KP's it creates if they get out. Many tournies use "Total War" type scenarios, so KP's sometimes count even when they aren't the objective! They tend to be tie breakers too at times. I have pondered this many time, and even used those points for a Stealth unit (and that worked "ok"), beleive me, but I always end up at the same conclusion.

The Disruption pod is because while its primary target should be within 6", the other enemy units are usually a bit farther (If I can swing it). So its like Death Company: sometimes you're TOO good at your job and end up out in the open after a successful charge and get blown up. This is the same idea. I will kill my target very often and I do not want it easier, on the rounds I shoot, to down me. In Chess it's the move after the move if you see what I mean. The value of the Piranha's changes after their first target: objective stealing. They will need all their strength to survive the final rush. If I let them get whittled in round 4, then in round 5 I have less width for the task and I also face an easier total kill scenario for the unit, being open topped.

Lack of high str weapons: I do understand what you mean. Remember though that I need only kill certain vehicles. In 40K, the number hardly matters as much as the location and timing of the kill. My entire tactica is timing based really. So the goal is to do just what you say: kill 1-2 reliably the first two rounds. That's 4 vehicles with a bit of luck that arent going anywhere or doing anything. If I go first, I will get a third round to finish the 4th and 5th vehicle. That is a lot of dead armor in three rounds. The Piranhas can fire at four different targets at a time. So that helps if the enemy tries to strong side me (making their isolation worse but chaces better against the flood gate).

In KP missions, I deal with lots of AV by not exposing anything. Thats why the army was originally conceived: I was just finding that when I allowed myself to be a target, the enemy miraculously went after them! LOL. But when all they could do was plink away at Broadside with maybe one or possibly two units at a time (first round or two), then I racked em up faster than they could.

In single objective missions, this is VERY strong. Unlike most armies, I can actually get a SUBSTANTIAL part of my force to contest in round 4-5 and there isn't a ton the enemy can do about it. They just have to hope their push into my objective holds. Pathfinders and their devilfish, plus both Kroot outflank late in the game. Kroot can get in the Transport once they have been battered, IF they are battered in turn 5 (though not always necessary). The Stingwings can DS, the Piranha are super fast and survivable... I mean, this army can ebasolutely tie a game or win it on single objectives. I've won that mission with my Tau more than I ever could with other armies because it's almost a tie from the word go as you know, so often.

Multiple objectives is trickier. The isolation tactics were mostly the result of that mission and why I take less Broadsides. I uses to use 6 Broadsides but quickly realized that was a mistake when fighting this way. The lack of large guns is not really a disability because the 5 objective missions just require mobility. Beyond that you can fight for one objective instead of 5 and win. Ergo, if the enemy splits up, I can attack and seal off one or two of the objectives while using late game speed to ensure the victory. The last round or two of my games are where all the excitement happens.

Don't know if that answered your queries.

Mind= blown.

I like the isolation idea, and the mobility....kinda considering tau. Very nice list.

I'd be more scared to face this than a generic off-the-shelf tourney army, because it is clearly a list tailored to suit the tried and tested tactics of a wily general. In fact this is one of the few threads I've seen (on Tactica or Army Lists) containing any tactics at all.

It is a very interesting list and obviously a well tested idea (not to mention wholly in keeping with the Tau Way of War,) as two other armies already do something very similar. My question is: how do you do against those armies? How does the list handle Venom Spam and DAVU lists? Those armies generally do what you are doing far more efficiently with potentially MORE manuverability than you have. They react to "isolation" well by vurtue of rapid redeployments.

Obviously you try to pop transports, but still, I am curious. It seems that, even with your shield drone set up your broadsides (as you mentioned nearly the only targets on the board in the early stage) are PAINFULLY vulnerable to massed fire to drop the drones, then casual AT fire to pop he Sides.

Im assuming you spread the broadsides out, one at left, right and center of deployment? Im pretty sure you tried explaining that, im just clarifying, seems that would better seperate the enemy as they dont have to lob all shots in one corner at 3 diff units.

I'd be tempted to take those three lone Broadisdes and turn them into 2 pairs, adding a HW TL to the team lead on each pair for split fire, perhaps sacrificing one of the Piranhas int he process. But that's it for major changes I'd try.

It's nice to see someone use Vespids in a Tau list, I don't think they get the respect that their owed from the mathematicians.

I like Tau lists that move and or incorporate lots of Firewarriors. I know it's not in the vogue right now for Tau, but it is the way they are meant to be played IMHO.

Jancoran wrote:

Barksdale wrote:
Thanks for posting the individual point costs for everything. Now I don't need to buy the codex. Sweet! Oh btw have you read the 40k Army Lists posting guidelines?

I did...just now.

And *now* you can hit the EDIT button, and go back through your original post and edit them out so GW doesn't give Dakka grief over posting their Intellectual Property.

Well I can see the list, b/c the post has been deleted. So I am basing this post off of the list posted on the bat rep page.

I have always been under the belief victory is more based on the general than the army. It seems like you must be pretty good, just based off of those mini bat reps and the track record you have provided. An being able to win with a list like this must take a lot of talent lol I absolutely refuse to believe that you win with this list unless you happen to be very good or every single opponent you have is very bad :p But like I said before, it must be the former.

Also for future reference including upgrades such as landing gear or gun drones for the devil fish, and etc, is a little unnecessary. Most people know they have those upgrades since it is what they come with. But feel free to still.
Anyways I am not to much of a fan of the crisis suits. TL fusion blaster is only one shot and not nearly as effective as plasma rifles. If you drop that third FW team that dosn't have a ride you could afford the points for better guns on the crisis suits. They are much better at killing and surviving than FW. Those Fire Warriors w/out a ride are an easy kill point that wont be able to do as much.

Jancoran wrote:

Piccolo wrote:Saying an army never loses on the Internet means you never play it.

Making your point of winning 5 tournaments doesn't prove anything since we don't know much. What armies did you draw, how good/bad were those players, what armies did you avoid drawing, is the local tournament scene large? Lots of questions that leave your claim without merit. Winning best general could be another question, since that judging is often subjective.

Unorthodox armies can win for a while until people see it a few times and realize they are not going to see what they were waiting for the first time. I would know all about that having a tau list from about a decade ago that worked off of marker lights before they were cool and seeker missiles. It was good for a few crushing victories until people saw it enough to adapt. Nothing in that list, or the one you posted screams out the ability to really adapt to players or bad dice.

You DO understand that "winning all the time" was tongue in cheek right? There really was no reason to comment on that.. Just saying.

My question is: do you make your point by LOSING five tournies and NOT getting Best General? I think not. Best general isn't subjective. its pure battle points. The only reason I haven't won more tournesy is that my paint STINKS. So i will not apologize for success.

Further: the whole "who were your opponents" crap is crap. Sorry. I dont buy into that. I've played way too many games and GT's in too many states to even listen to that anymore. Let me answer simply: I don't think you'd have any problem generally praising our pool of local Generals after a few games with them. Not that I think it matters one bit, but there you go. he said she said. i know that Swiss pairing means you still gotta' beat someone who matters.

As for adaptability... I can get anywhere on the board, contest objectives, have good armor, and I have some big guns to help me pave the way. Unlike most Tau builds, i don't rely on AP to kill MEQ, but I have it. I bring a mass of fire power on isolated oppnents. I do not try to table you. So model to model comparisons and all that is meaningless as a whole. Mobility is the key weapon for this force and its strategy is to simply ignore the big hammer units and lead them as far from their friends as possible before hammering the other guys (or vice versa, whatever makes the most sense for that game, mission, terrain and opponent which are too variable to really get into).

I think my point was stated poorly and distracted from my point. Serves me right for posting from my phone at work. I was more trying to prod for comments pertaining to how you have used it to be adaptable. Would you care to expound on any common tricks of the list against some of the more prevalent list concepts seen at tournaments. I am looking at this list as someone who is getting back to 40k after a 7 year break and to me, it seems to lack a lot of the elements and abilities I would have looked for.

Your original list was removed by the MOD. Can you please re-post it. It would be easier to ask questions and make comments about your tactics if we knew exactly what list you are working off of.

Nagashek wrote:It is a very interesting list and obviously a well tested idea (not to mention wholly in keeping with the Tau Way of War,) as two other armies already do something very similar. My question is: how do you do against those armies? How does the list handle Venom Spam and DAVU lists? Those armies generally do what you are doing far more efficiently with potentially MORE manuverability than you have. They react to "isolation" well by vurtue of rapid redeployments.

Obviously you try to pop transports, but still, I am curious. It seems that, even with your shield drone set up your broadsides (as you mentioned nearly the only targets on the board in the early stage) are PAINFULLY vulnerable to massed fire to drop the drones, then casual AT fire to pop he Sides.

Here is more of the discussion that caused me to do this post. It contains a lot also:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/433516.page

Very Fair Questions. Remember that I am presenting plan A, for the most part. If Dark Eldar are on the menu, you gotta change things.

The NEW Dark Eldar the lists like I JUST saw at TSHFT for example have a ton of venoms (uselesss aginst armor), a few lances to get to the meat of the matter and the Razorwings are seeing more and more use, for their Dark lances and best-of-both-worlds functionality if no other reason. The tendenices of Dark Eldar are definitely eclectic, as they can range from assault based Wyche cults and Monster Mash armies to the mechanized Dual cannon venom mechanized aproach and they are very different to fight. The BASIC truth is this: Mechanized and non mechanized Dark Eldar units hate STR 5+.

First, count the STR 5 shots. Dark Eldar, will PUNISH a couple units early (and I mean REALLY punish them as I encountered literally yesterday when I beat the guy who went on to win 1st in his division at TSHFT but not with Tau to be fair), but unlike so many other armies, standard weaponry is very very effective. If I blast threeDark Lance wielding naughties from the sky in round one, and some disruption pods and a round later, STR 5 the rest immobile and inert, how much difficulty do you think the Tau army will have? Tau shooting is highly effective and you dont RELY on the Broadsides. The Broadsides in fact are red herrings against such a force becuase...the Tau dont actually NEED them to win! I mean think about it. Two Infiltrating Kroot units firing at Venoms (10-20 shots each, str 4)... 3 Broadsides... 4 Devilfish's kit'd for blasting and immune to all but lances.,.. Equally fast Piranhas to block wyche charges (and oh MAN do Wyches hate Flechette!)

If its a wyche cult, isolating the enemy is as easy as it is with any army. They come for you, they get out, they get stranded, yahoo. If its a Mechanized force, you may have to deploy most of your units. The Piranhas play the biggest role on defense. They really give your force time to react and the Piranhas spread wide enough to actually do it for more than one unit plus can stop Tank shocks relatively easily and without damage most fo the time (dodge save for skimmers that move fast). The drones on board are no fun either, Lol. Don't forget them. Remember those disruption pods no one wanted to pay for on the Piranhas? Well they are gonna pay for themselves when you go to block wyches and the Lances are trying to kill you out of the way.

I find compelling reason to think that this many shots at STR 5 will more than make a Dark Eldar mechanized list sad, Especially if their Dark Lances get knocked out early, since so many mechanized eldar are people-killers and not really as awesome at tank killing, primarily because the lose firepower at a much faster rate and have no delaying tactice that will help them.

Asdrubiel Vect is a problem Often it is better to simply concede first turn against him. If forced to deploy first, Vect obviously makes you pay for any mistakes so just remember to be behind the 5" line against him, going first or second and make sure if Wyches are around, you got a place to sucker them into and Piranhas within reach to block. That will cause those Wyches to risk a lot to even try.

The mission will determine some of what you do. For example, it mattered in my mission against the Dark Eldar yesterday WHAT unit killed his. That isn't normally a consideration, but it was at TSHFT. But missions and outlying considerations aside, thats what I would say, given the question was pretty general.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ImpGuardPanzies wrote:Im assuming you spread the broadsides out, one at left, right and center of deployment? Im pretty sure you tried explaining that, im just clarifying, seems that would better seperate the enemy as they dont have to lob all shots in one corner at 3 diff units.

Yes. See the link in the original post so you can see the discussion there. It contains a lot of the tactica as well as stuff from someone who learned it from me (an dstill is learning it from me). He took 4th out of 47 recently at the GW GT Qualifier. He's liking it.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/433516.page



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Skargob wrote:Your original list was removed by the MOD. Can you please re-post it. It would be easier to ask questions and make comments about your tactics if we knew exactly what list you are working off of.

Done


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Piccolo wrote:
I think my point was stated poorly and distracted from my point. Serves me right for posting from my phone at work. I was more trying to prod for comments pertaining to how you have used it to be adaptable. Would you care to expound on any common tricks of the list against some of the more prevalent list concepts seen at tournaments. I am looking at this list as someone who is getting back to 40k after a 7 year break and to me, it seems to lack a lot of the elements and abilities I would have looked for.

You won't be the first or the last to question it. Trust me.


Adaptability: you can fully deploy, isolate, or attack from all sides (literally), dependent on which foe you face. You are not hurt at all in missions that require Night Fighting really and you are not disadvantaged against Daemons like you might be if your build was more typical and forced full deployment to work. It has Torrent, for anti-horde, a specific plan for anti-tank, a hige model count for battles of Attrition and a LOW reliance on any one element in order for it to actually work. Just some things to ponder slowly. I'll give you a good example: I played a guy with two Terminaotr Squads in two Land Raiders. Not what Tau want to see coming at them. When his First Terminators disappeared in a cloud of torrenting fire, the rest of the force simply ran from the other unit and it never had a chance of catching them because I blew the treads off their ride. Even if the first land raider could reach them and then transport them the other way, it was just too late.

My point in this analogy is, an army that RELIES on one or two units to DO the actual work is weaker just by its nature than one that can afford to lose its components. I got away completely from Crisis Units because really, you are 6-18 or less Failed Marine saves away from having nothing. They hit like a MAC truck when they show up, but they cant afford even a modicum of bad luck. Thats a fragile thing. Dark Eldar eat that kind of thing up just in volume of fire. You can't trust it like you can good old fashioned BULK.

I'm not advocating MSU here (though its hard to avoid in Tau armies). I am just talking about the simple truth that less reliance on any one aspect of an army makes it better. 9 Broadsides sounds great. My normal Codex: Space Marines with Shrike would make that build real sad though. The Positional relay for all its virtue doesn't necessarily HAVE to be used all the time and there will be times when you will simply opt NOT to use it. It's important but not a death stroke to your chances when it gets magically killed (usually because you didn't heed my advice about the 5" rules and staying mobile after that or you just didn't hide it for some reason. bad luck etc...).

Enough about that.

As for common builds, I saw some mean ones yesterday and today and I can say this: now more than ever with the spectre of Grey Knights and Blood Angels, your best bet is not to present a target for those guys. Bad luck (for Tau) goes a long way in explaining why they would fear PsyDreads and Psycannons, but consider that Broadsides simply CAN outrange the Dreads and silence them. Let them. As long as possible. Force those Grey Knights into action and move. Not nearly as scary on the move but so often people dont count in their heads on what turn they ACTUALLY need to mve to objectives or they fly to them too soon or they deploy too far to one side to adjust later and get hit full bore with Cannon fire. Not good. Other advice: Tank shock is great against GK if they are combat squading and/or Deep striking which they like to do. Hit the half without the Sergeant (LD 8). It its a Crowe list (like my Own Grey Knight army) then you just wil not be able to sustain against such brutal force at short range, but that force only projects so far and YOU control how long. My own Crowe list, which did well, needed good movement rolls and gave up a lot of extra shots in order to navigate terrain and get to targets and it wasn't as if my opponnets were sitting idly by while I did. Force that as often as possible.

I saw some serious IG armor at the tourney too. They can rumble AV 12 all day across the board in waves while they bomb you with Manticores/whatever, then dare you to even TRY to kill them all. Psyker Battle Squads are seriously problematic for all armies and really were ill thought out. But they are allowed and legal. So being in an air conditioned Devilfish is probably a smarter play. POP that Psyker Squad out ASAP though or you could be in for along day and I dont think I am saying anything sage there. Thats just good advice for any non-fearless army.

Too many armies out there to addressentirely here but Grey Knights is a big one you need to mentally adjust to and tourney strength armies are pretty heinous if you don't think like they do.


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Oh and make sure you dont get confused. The list Jazzpaintball put up and his adventures at the GT Qualifier are not my list. I just happen to know him and have taught him some of this, so again, dont get confused. I just put the old discussion up becuase it ultimately led to this one and I did post extensively on this same subject there.

Oh this is a much different list then the one posted in the reps! all your fw's have rides. Stingwings are a very interesting choice. I personally was never into them that much, so the fact their stats are crap was just another reason not to use them lol
Although this army is different then the one posted in the batreps I still think it could be better, especially for 2000 points. No crisis suits at all? At 2000 points I see this list as going to struggle a lot. I cant even believe it adds up to 2000!

Oh it's 2000 points alright. Lol. Actually, it's a lot of models. 101 models in all.

ya, but you have no elites or anything that can deep strike. So why the position relay? Oh wait to the stingwings deepstrike?

darkcloud92 wrote:ya, but you have no elites or anything that can deep strike. So why the position relay? Oh wait to the stingwings deepstrike?

The positional relay isn't to help deep strikers (well not primarily) but yeah, the Stingwings Deepstrike. the Pathfinder Devilfish makes that easier and of course Stingwings pretty much ignore terrain so hey, free cover saves on the descent most of the time.

The lack of elites doesn't hurt that much. As I may have mentioned, I have thrown 3 Stealthsuits with a Fusion Blaster to infiltrate with a couple times (and it really helps draw termies out of transports and such). I inevitably end up dropping them and trying them again and dropping them. they are really the only part of the force I always kind of waffle on. To be honest the models are just way awesome so thats part of my problem: I love those old models man. really really cool. Thats not a tactical opinion by the way. Lol.

However, i did do a long blog on using Stealth Clouds and even used one in a 1000+1000 Point pairs tourney recently to GREAT effect. it is probably another build I would recommend if people like the elites for Tau. Crisis suits are pretty dead to me but Stealthsuits... I do like me some stealthies.



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If anyone would like to SEE some of this in action, here is a battle report a guy did when I played him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp78gM3Qt_Q

Awesome list!!!

Quick question, what allows your piranhas to target 4 different squads and where may i find that rule?

Thx

Target Locks.

Skywalker049 wrote:Awesome list!!!

Quick question, what allows your piranhas to target 4 different squads and where may i find that rule?

Thx

He's right. By placing three Target Locks on the Piranhas, they can zoom 12" near a cluster of vehicles, unload all four meltas into four targets and use the drones to screen them from getting counter charged. In turn the Disruption pod fends off shots from further away and forces units inbetween to have to come towards me with no hope of charging or else back away. The units inside that ARe forced out (and they aren't always) will then get the royal treatment from whatever is within rnage.

The Piranhas can then move to their secondary role: objective stealing with 4 inch coherency two rounds later, and pot shots if they need to.