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If a necron model with reanimation protocols/ever-living with a maximun toughness of 5suffers a wound caused by a say demolisher cannon (S10 AP2) does it instantly die or does the bastard still get a chance to get up? I´ve been checking the codex and there doesn´t seem to be an answer. There also doesn´t seem to be any invulnerable saves on any model. Am I reading something wrong? There doesn´t seem to be much need for any inv. saves though...

RP and Everliving don't give two darns for instant death, power weapons, AP2, or any of that.

Wraiths are a prominent unit which has invulnerable saves. Lychguard with Shields do too. And an Overlord can take one with wargear.

On page 26 of the brb it says "it is killed outright and removed as a casualty." In the Necron faqs it says "Q: If a model carrying a resurrection orb is removed as
a casualty, can you still benefit from it when rolling for his, and his unit’s, Reanimation Protocol rolls that phase? (p82) A: Yes."

But, anything that removes it from play without taking a wound, it cant come back from.

So the answer to your question is yes, it can come back from an instant death.

Some people play it that RP/EL works against abilities that remove from play. Some people don't. This is a gray area and it has been debated too many times in this forum. Let's not repeat all the arguments one more time. Bottom line is there is no GAP. Check with your gaming club how it handles this situation.

Damn. Necrons got really hard to kill and without the phase out...how ae you supposed to kill them???

Remember that if you kill lets say all the immortals in a unit, even if a cryptek survives/rolls EL, those immortals are dead and gone. So focus fire...

copper.talos wrote:Remember that if you kill lets say all the immortals in a unit, even if a cryptek survives/rolls EL, those immortals are dead and gone. So focus fire...

This is mostly right....The only times that a Necron unit cannot make their RP role is if the unit fell back or if it was wiped to a man. As for EL, there is not a single way in the game to prevent this. What is wrong about this statement is that a Cryptek that joins a squad is part of that squad - even an IC that joins is part of the squad. There is no way to leave only one man standing to prevent RP/EL. The remaining model that remains does not matter.

Honestly, the best way to get rid of them are either the unreliable method of just unloading a ton of shots and just pray for failed RP/EL
OR
Take AP3 or better weapons and that is what you focus on the trouble unit. There is only 2 models (not counting named - of which there is 3) that can even have a 2+ (Overlords and Lords). It is tougher than it sounds most time, but you also have to look that you are fighting against not only failing saves but also failing reanimation.

Amaraxis wrote:

copper.talos wrote:Remember that if you kill lets say all the immortals in a unit, even if a cryptek survives/rolls EL, those immortals are dead and gone. So focus fire...

This is mostly right....The only times that a Necron unit cannot make their RP role is if the unit fell back or if it was wiped to a man. As for EL, there is not a single way in the game to prevent this. What is wrong about this statement is that a Cryptek that joins a squad is part of that squad - even an IC that joins is part of the squad. There is no way to leave only one man standing to prevent RP/EL. The remaining model that remains does not matter.

Honestly, the best way to get rid of them are either the unreliable method of just unloading a ton of shots and just pray for failed RP/EL
OR
Take AP3 or better weapons and that is what you focus on the trouble unit. There is only 2 models (not counting named - of which there is 3) that can even have a 2+ (Overlords and Lords). It is tougher than it sounds most time, but you also have to look that you are fighting against not only failing saves but also failing reanimation.

Nope. The Cryptek does not count as part of the squad for the purposes of RP. Kill all of the immortals and leave the cryptek standing, then the cryptek will be forever alone.


"Note that characters do not count as part of the unit for the purposes of reanimation protocols" 5ed cron dex, pg29

Overlords, Crypteks, Destroyer Lords and Lords are all characters, and as such can only stand up by themselves if the unit they were attached to is destroyed.

True, but because the Crypteks and Lords count as being part of the unit for all purposes during that game (like Wolf Guard), they will preserve the Kill Point (or half VPs for the unit) if they do stand up. Lost two KPs to this yesterday, in a tight game.

arent lords IC? if the unit they are attached to dies, dont they revert to being an IC, and you gain a KP by wiping the squad? (the attached character if killed would generate a second kP)

Lords are not ICs. Overlords are ICs.

Scratched my first question, the codex specifically states that characters do not count as part of the unit for the purposes of RP. So only my second question remains...

It's a question about the Royal Court in general that just sprang up in my mind through this thread. Let's say I am fielding a Court of 2 Lords and 2 Crypteks (numbers of Lords and Crypteks irrelevant, just an example). I place the Lords in 2 different units. I know I can split the Crypteks and put them into units as well. I can also leave them together as the Royal Court unit.
Logically, I can also put one of them in a unit and leave the last of them alone as the Court unit. Right?
And lastly, can I separate them and leave them operating independently from each other AND keep BOTH out of units?

Input much appreciated!

angelshade00 wrote:Wait a second though... I just checked my codex and the Lord's and Cryptek's types are Infantry (Character). So rules taken into account, once the squad of Immortals gets killed off, they should revert to being independent characters and the Immortals would not get their Protocols. I am very interested on hearing your opinions on this.

They can't revert to being independant characters, they where never indepentant characters in the first place. They can't just gain the rule.

They're upgrade characters, so even if the rest of the squad is whiped out, they're still part of that squad (just the last member). They can't then join others.

Characters are unique, special, upgrade AND independent. Just because you are a character doesnt mean you are an IC

You can also kill EL models by standing over their corpse - they have to get back up within 3" of the token, nd more than 1" away from an enemy model.

Sweeping advance kills EVERYTHING in a unit, including an EL token, and does not allow E: / RP rolls to be made

grendel083 wrote:

angelshade00 wrote:Wait a second though... I just checked my codex and the Lord's and Cryptek's types are Infantry (Character). So rules taken into account, once the squad of Immortals gets killed off, they should revert to being independent characters and the Immortals would not get their Protocols. I am very interested on hearing your opinions on this.

They can't revert to being independant characters, they where never indepentant characters in the first place. They can't just gain the rule.

They're upgrade characters, so even if the rest of the squad is whiped out, they're still part of that squad (just the last member). They can't then join others.

You're right I double-checked and confirmed it. Thanks.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Characters are unique, special, upgrade AND independent. Just because you are a character doesnt mean you are an IC

The latter part is right, but I think the phrasing you want for the first part is more like "AND/OR", rather than AND. The latter implies that all characters have all of those characteristics, when what you mean is that they may have any or all.

nosferatu1001 wrote:You can also kill EL models by standing over their corpse - they have to get back up within 3" of the token, nd more than 1" away from an enemy model.

Yup, though as it's 3" from the edge of the counter, and the counter most people use is a 25mm base, you usually need several models (at least 5 25mm ones, IIRC) to do it. I tried doing it with a Dreadnought yesterday and my opponent pointed out that the 60mm base isn't big enough.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Sweeping advance kills EVERYTHING in a unit, including an EL token, and does not allow E: / RP rolls to be made

Darn it; I forgot about that.

5 40mm termi bases are good enough (3 times today...)

The remark about sweeping advances to wipe out the counters seems incorrect. Can you please provide a quote in the rules where it says that?
Also page 29 of the necron codex says after all morale checks have been taken and fall back moves made. Can you shoot at EL counters if you wipe the command squad? For example, you have an overlord, and two lords. In the shooting phase, you shoot down all three. There are now three counters. Can you continue to shoot at them and "kill" the counters? I dont think so, I may be wrong. Also, because that unit lost more than 25% of the squad (actually, 100%), does it have to make a morale check? I dont think so, they are all gone. Consolidation moves are made after fall back moves right? If thats the case, you cant just walk over the counters. If you surround the unit, sure, it may not be able to come back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, how large does a counter have to be? If it were me, and i were playing a serious game, I would probably use a base as a counter, and measure three inches from that.

P40 Sweeping Advance wrote:The destroyed unit is removed immediately. Unless otherwise specified, no save or other special rule can rescue the unit at this stage; for them the battle is over.

I think that's the quote they meant.

Oh yeah. Unless otherwise specified. Cool, so, EL specifies.

If the EL model was killed prior to the SA, you would have an argument. However, Sweeping Advance does not remove the model as a casualty, so you would not be able to place an EL counter.

So the quick answer to my question is that all necrons are bastards and it´s pretty much impossible to kill them with anything but a massive wall of firepower...

Bastards? That's uncharacteristic for necrons. "Technological constructs of unknown origin" is more like them

Basimpo wrote:Oh yeah. Unless otherwise specified. Cool, so, EL specifies.

No, it doesnt. Where does it specify it works against Sweepign Advance? I'll give you a hint - it needs to say it works against Sweeping Advance otherwise it doesnt. See ATSKNF for an example of what specify actually means.

A general statement, which is all EL / RP is, is not specific by definition.

To continue this topic because I do not own the codex, if I shoot a unit and several die, and the unit falls back due to loss of 25%, are the markers lost or do they get a chance to reanimate?

You would have to ask this directly to someone with a codex.
Not being rude, but that is a rule in the codex and giving an answer like this is against forum rules.

As long as it is clearly stated in the codex. I played Necrons for the first time this weekend, and the guy I played was not really forth coming with letting me see his codex.

Then dont play him, until he does.

jbunny wrote:As long as it is clearly stated in the codex. I played Necrons for the first time this weekend, and the guy I played was not really forth coming with letting me see his codex.

It's a shame he won't let you at least look at a rule you don't have or need clarified.

Just ask him to show you page 29. The answer is the last sentence of the first paragraph.

The shame is that GW didnt even update the reference sheets they have on their site. The Necron sheet is still the one from the old codex.

And I agree, don't play him. If he won't help with a codex, I can only imagine how helpful he would be with a rule question.

Happyjew wrote:If the EL model was killed prior to the SA, you would have an argument. However, Sweeping Advance does not remove the model as a casualty, so you would not be able to place an EL counter.

If the unit is destroyed by Sweeping Advance, you may place EL counters. Here's the relevant FAQ.

Q: If an entire unit, including an attached character
from a Royal Court, is wiped out, do you get to make
any Reanimation Protocol rolls? (p29)
A: You would only get to make one roll for the
attached character as he has the Ever-living special rule.
Note that in this case, he must be placed within 3" of
the counter as his unit has been wiped out.