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This is my normal 1500 list altered to include manticores and a few more troops



With the suggestions so far, is this better than the first one?



So I'd probably blob the PIS together, use them to shield the PCS and CCS (or place those 2 units in cover) and the manticores, Marbo and Harker are reserved, harker outlanking and marbo doing his thing, vendettas will probably start 2 on 1 off (CCS and melta units on, plasma unit off) or, if I have first go and they don't have coteaz/imhotek/those kind of characters all 3 on to alpha strike with their lascannons better. What do you think? It gives me 3 backfield scoring units, 1 outflanking scoring unit, 2 very mobile scoring units (until their rides are done in) and some good order support for my backfield (kitted out CCS) and orders for desperate assaults (e.g. killing LRs early with the melta CCS)

First off id have to say get rid of CCS
Lascannon, Astropath, Officer of the Fleet, Master of Ordnance, Camo Cloaks and Marbo(maybe im just not a fan).

I simply dislike heavy weapons/MoO build. to pricey and it wont ever hit. If you run two CCS run them Melta/plasma and you will accually get your points out of them.

OK this is all in my true humble opinion i hope i dont step on any toes.

So instead first I would put the officer of the fleet and the astropath in the first command squad because they work really well together.

and second i would never foot slog veterans due to their high point cost and terrible saves. I love vets in chimeras so i would prob drop to point sink marbo and just give them a chimera. outflanking scoring unit in a vehicle.

and third always max out your special weapons on your PCS so they have a real threat, like 4 meltas in a chimera or 4 flamers in a vendetta. It takes a unit that wouldn't be doing much the whole game and upgrades it to a tank poping scoring unit with an armor shell.

last but not least i think your list would really benefit if you could fit in 2 hydras to hide the manticores behind if you want to invest in the manticores to make them alittle more survivable give them camo cloaks and hide them now they have a 3+ cover save. Because face it your opponent will be targeting them.

Well I can't whack them in a vendetta, those are all full up, although I guess a chimera could work if kept back with the manticores for a counterattack unit for when the enemy reaches them (I'd probably go flamers then and force a lot of saves). I could pay for that by dropping the rear CCS.

One question, if your astropath and OoF die don't you lose the bonus'? They wouldn't last long in my aggressive CCS, that thing is basically only there to kill something scary with BiD, often playing a sacrificial role to slow an enemies attack.

Thanks for the help

And in regards to harker's squad they actually seem quite survivable to me, they get a 3+ cover save from most cover, and with the astropath they tend to come on the side I want them to, which limits their exposure to fire, and in the 1500 games that I run them they always seem to do pretty well. The few times they haven't made their points back they have been valuable in tying up the enemy's fire and attention or grabbing an objective late game

I could drop one of the HWS teams and take a hydra, then the manticores could hide behind the hydra and the PCS chimera? Or would having the second HWS be better in terms of AT ability...I guess I have enough lascannnons, and the hydra could always assist in downing rhinos/razorbacks/trukks

And lastly, marbo stays. I freaking love that guy. LOVE him. I just rewatched the movie where he went to tallarn and helped the brave tallarn freedom fighters beat back the evil tau invaders (I know the tau aren't really communists, but its the closest I can think of).

Looks good, i do think you might be at a slight disadvantage against mech CC armies and the like. The vendettas will do great (i love how you get it for a mere 130 points!) All in all, i think you've got a pretty balanced and solid list.

Sorry, but do you mean the second one or the first one? The more I look at the second one the more I like it...

what movie do you speak of? i only take one HWS and keep them close to my ccs and have a lord commy close hidden in a blob. i like to play conservitive with half my force, and having more than one hws just seemed to draw to much fire over there. my ccs hides and shouts things so i dont know how well that would work for you.

Rambo 3. He goes to afghanistan and helps the mujahadeen (spell correct wants me to change this to muddleheaded....the internets is hilariously politically incorrect) fight the soviets.

Well in my second list the only CCS I have is in a vendetta, in the first list they would have sat back and shouted stuff, but I already have a lot of TL lascannons, so it may not be worth the points to get them TL as well. And that area will be attracting bulk fire on account of the 2 manticores, I don't think another HWS is going to swing too much more that way

well i only run one manticore and one vendetta so your right, those will probably be what attracts the most attention. my ccs issues alot of bring it down and fire on my target to my hws(2 LC, 1 ML) and LD7 is terrible trying to pass and then missing with the bs3. i added a lord commy that sits in a blob with AC a few inches away forming a backfield gunline granting LD10 to my HWS blob and CCS all of which get to reroll failed morale and pinning tests. that thing does damage now and since it is alone, my russes chimeras vend and manticre take the brunt of my enemies attacks while the lonely hws picks stuff apart not being looked at as much.

My 1500 point army is similar to this, except without the static firebase, so after a few games of this you may see me back here/in tactics discussing how to improve my use of a firebase, but I'm trying to base the army around a mix of the two, mobility and firebase, if I put a lord commy, my ccs, etc back there then I lose the mobility half of my army, you know?

Hey,

I like the second list, but would offer the following advice, if it were my army.

Vendetta's make great gunships but not so great transports, in my experience. Part of the reason why they are so OMG is because they are so cheap. Putting a fragile 100+ pt squad inside just raises them up too much in your opponents target priority and AV12 only goes so far.

It also doesn’t help that all your melta and plasma are inside transports with no fire points. Short range guns inside a transport with long range AT guns isn’t a great mix I feel. You need to get closer to use the special weapons, but want to stay at range to use the Vendetta properly.

If you are sold on the idea though, fair enough but I would be tempted to re-jig a bit by dropping some HWS and replacing them with SWS to go in the Vendetta's - 2x flamer & demo charge - still scoring, packs a nice punch but won't be missed as much as your vet squads when they are inside the gunships.

You could then get a couple of Chimeras for the vets. Done to death, I know... but it works and the extra AV12 on the board just helps all your other vehicles stay alive that bit longer.

I'm trying to avoid the extra chimeras because, well, I don't have them and I'm trying to save money. But if I find some good ebay deals I'll keep them in mind, cheers. I'm also trying to avoid having a whole mess of them on the field, it just wouldn't be as fun for me.

Okay I see the theme that you want to achieve here. I have to advise against putting your vet squads into those vendettas. With only five av12 vehicles on the table, 230+ point skimmers are just going to go down, and fast. If you want scoring units in your vendettas, a SWS with three flamers, or a PCS with 4 flamers is a much better choice.

That said, I'd advise you to give your vets a heavy weapon to make them complement the rest of your forces long range. I'd recommend las and plas. Two vet squads should be good in this role. Also, get your blob at least a power weapon on the commissar. You may also want to look into melta guns for them to keep vehicles at bay.

Ok, so for the vet squads something like 1xlascannon, 3xplasma and forward sentries for the stealth so they get a 3+ save, keeping them around longer? I'll have to drop something, probably the chimera from the PCS and something else, to make this work. I'll have a crack at it a bit later after I've done some assignment work. Thanks for all your help people.

Do not bother with forward sentries. Put in as much firepower as possible. If you do only two vet squads, and drop the chimera, you may even be able to squeeze in a third manticore, or a cheaper artillery piece.


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Or some special weapons squads in the vendettas for flamer love.


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Or just keep a third vet squad. I guess you do not have that many troops.

Well putting in two SWS's with 2xflamer and a demo charge, adding plasma/lascannon to the 2 vet squads and dropping the chimera and one of the HWS's leaves me 70 points over the mark...I may give the second list a few runs as it is to see if its worth dropping both HWS's to get this to work

Hmm there may be a few points still to spend, but I was thinking something more like this:

CCS, 3 melta, standard, astropath, OotF
Marbo

PCS, 4 flamers / las
PIS, pw, melta, las, commissar, pw
PIS, pw, melta, las,
PIS, pw, melta, las, commissar, pw
PIS, pw, melta, las,

Vets, 3 plasma, las
Vets, 3 plasma, hb, harker

Vendetta
Vendetta
Vendetta

Manticore
Manticore

Thanks for your help barksdale, its holidays soon so I'll get some good gaming miles in then and I'll be back here with how well/poorly I did after that.

Had a run at 1500 with a modified version of this list, that list is here http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/449904.page

Just in case anyone was wondering how it'd go. Its not the same, but its near enough.