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Now that it's out (for some people), let the craziness begin!

Drop Pods, do their contents count as a unit toward the 1/2 reserves max limit? Rules state that units that must come in via reserves don't count toward this limit, but would that include the contents of a drop pod since they technically have the choice.

Discuss...

Seeing as how a unit in it's dedicated transport count as a single unit, and the Drop Pod must enter via DS, the contents would not count towards the limit.

At least that is my take on it.

Would kinda ruin a thematic pod army. Also nerfs DoA armeis a little.

Happyjew wrote:Seeing as how a unit in it's dedicated transport count as a single unit,

Is this a new 6th edition rule for reserves? It's never been true before.

...

Happyjew wrote:and the Drop Pod must enter via DS, the contents would not count towards the limit.

Hopefully we get FAQs tomorrow. Or Monday, if they can't get one guy from the web team to push an update button tomorrow to put the new docs up.

Mannahnin wrote:

Happyjew wrote:Seeing as how a unit in it's dedicated transport count as a single unit,

Is this a new 6th edition rule for reserves? It's never been true before.

Count as single unit for purposes of limiting 1/2 of your units being in reserve, page 124

Edit: But still count as seperate kill points, page 127

units inside vehicles that 'must' enter play through deepstrike do not count towards your reserve limit

Phototoxin wrote:Would kinda ruin a thematic pod army. Also nerfs DoA armeis a little.

It seems to ruin DP only armies as it is. As I read it, the unit counts as part of its Dedicated Transport, but an IC attached to a unit does not. So any ICs you intended to ride in the Drop Pods would be part of the total. In this case, if you had only one IC, no problem... if you had two, then one IC would have to deploy on the table without the drop pod. Which would kind of suck.

Or you could take a single groundpounder unit designed to deploy on an objective and hunker down in cover, which would allow you to attach both ICs. Say a squad of Tac Marines, or Scouts with Camo Cloaks. The Scouts would make a fluffy choice for infiltrating in and calling in the Steel Rain attack.

I want to make sure I'm reasoning this out correctly.

If I take 5 units in drop pods, 2 HQ's and 1 other unit, that means I have to deploy 1

Nothing says that it has to be one of the units that counts, only that I have to deploy 1.

So I can combat squad and hide a squad of tacticals on an objective that have a Drop Pod in reserve, and put the 2 HQ's and the other unit into reserve.

Combat squad units are the same unit until they hit the board. You dont even separate combat squads in a drop pod until it comes down, so that doesn't work.

True, Combat Squads are not split until they are deployed on the table, thus you split [if so is desired] units with this rule that arrives via drop pod When they arrive on the table, a trick to fix null deployment if you want 2 HQ is to ensure that one of them can take a command squad and then give them a drop pod too.

The Codex Arstartes Calls This Manoeuver Steel Rain.

Steel Rain should work in 6th Edition as, as it is, Drop Pods have been improved from last edition as the second half are more likely to come in and now as vehicles are easy to kill i don't see it being much of a problem.

Lobukia wrote:I want to make sure I'm reasoning this out correctly.

If I take 5 units in drop pods, 2 HQ's and 1 other unit, that means I have to deploy 1

Nothing says that it has to be one of the units that counts, only that I have to deploy 1.

So I can combat squad and hide a squad of tacticals on an objective that have a Drop Pod in reserve, and put the 2 HQ's and the other unit into reserve.

I don't think this will work.

Passengers in a Drop Pod have to start in reserves. But passengers out of the drop pod do not have to start in reserve, so would need to be counted.

Alright I have been playing drop pods for a while now (since 4th BEFORE you actually GOT PODS!) Here is how I figure it. Please forgive me for not being able to provide page #'s but I dont have my book with me!

Lets break it down shall we:

1 Researves: You are allowed to hold HALF rounded up of your Army in Researves
2 Drop POD Assault: Half your pods (rounding DOWN) Get placed in researve the other half arrives turn 1
Combat Squads: As per the FAQ get separated BEFORE the game but can ride in a pod or dedicated transport together.

So if this is your list
Captain*
Terminators 5*/5* Combat squad
Tac* (pod)
Tac*(pod)
Tac*(pod)
Dread*(pod)
Dread*(pod)

You have 8 Units that COUNT towards researve numbers (*). The PODS DONT count but your TAC sqauds, Captain, Dreads and the TWO combat squads of Terminators DO.
So you now MUST deploy at least 4 units . However, the Tricky part is that with the Drop pod assault rules you WILL be deploying 3 of the Pods on turn one. Is it posible to simply deploy your captain or a Combat squad of Terms during your deployment and then turn 1 Deploy the DP Assaulting pods via deepstrike?

Drop pods and the units bought with them count as 1 reserved unit that must be in reserve (even if in combat squads)... page 124

Combat squads must be declared before turn 1 starts (SM FAQ, first column)

@Dooley, you can reserve all 5 pods (as per 124), then you have 3 other squads. A captain, and two terminator squads (as per the FAQ).

Since we divide by 2 and then round up to see how many of those 3 go in to reserve, that means 2 units can now go into reserve and 1 must be deployed, but you can put the terminators and the captain into reserve and deploy just a dread and then start the game.

EDIT: and page 36 clearly tells us the a Drop Pod does count as a unit that must be in reserve

Dooley wrote:Alright I have been playing drop pods for a while now (since 4th BEFORE you actually GOT PODS!) Here is how I figure it. Please forgive me for not being able to provide page #'s but I dont have my book with me!

Lets break it down shall we:

1 Researves: You are allowed to hold HALF rounded up of your Army in Researves
2 Drop POD Assault: Half your pods (rounding DOWN) Get placed in researve the other half arrives turn 1
Combat Squads: As per the FAQ get separated BEFORE the game but can ride in a pod or dedicated transport together.

So if this is your list
Captain*
Terminators 5*/5* Combat squad
Tac* (pod)
Tac*(pod)
Tac*(pod)
Dread*(pod)
Dread*(pod)

You have 8 Units that COUNT towards researve numbers (*). The PODS DONT count but your TAC sqauds, Captain, Dreads and the TWO combat squads of Terminators DO.
So you now MUST deploy at least 4 units . However, the Tricky part is that with the Drop pod assault rules you WILL be deploying 3 of the Pods on turn one. Is it posible to simply deploy your captain or a Combat squad of Terms during your deployment and then turn 1 Deploy the DP Assaulting pods via deepstrike?

The tactical squads and dreadnoughts only count for the amount you must deploy if they are not placed in their drop pod. So you could have it where only the Terminators and Captain count, enabling you to only place the Captain. If the Tactical Squads and the Dreadnoughts choose not to use their Drop Pods, then they count. But if they are arriving via Drop Pod, they would not.

Also, if I remember rules for combat squads correctly, you cannot deploy just one-both would need to be deployed at the same time. Combat squads are now declared before deployment, and may now share a transport (SM FAQ). So A Drop Pod Squad could be combat squaded, both placed in the pod, and neither would count for the reserve limit as the pod is the dedicated transport for both, and must arrive using deep strike. But if they are not placed in the Drop Pod, they would count as 2 separate units for all purposes, including reserve limits.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Lobukia

Dooley wrote:
2 Drop POD Assault: Half your pods (rounding DOWN) Get placed in researve the other half arrives turn 1

The trouble with this premise is that all Drop Pods are considered in reserve when the game begins. Even though some of them come in on turn 1 they still count as being in reserve. The only reason they come in differently than normal reserves is their special rule. This is the same for Daemons. All Daemons start in reserve, but half of them come in first turn, though they are still considered to be in reserve. The rule in question says that half your army (rounded down) must start deployed, barring anything that must be in reserves. So in your example only the Captain or one of the Terminators must start on the board. If you added a 10 man scout squad split into combat squads you could deploy them on an objective and DS everything on that list.

It is my understanding that the Dedicated Transport (ie the Pods) DONT count for units however, the Units INSIDE them still do? Am I over complicating things here ?

Gents,

Read page 36 really carefully... units that must DS in and "any" passengers don't count for reserves math...

You may take a full drop pod army and deploy nothing.

It doesn't say in the reserve rules that units IN their DT count as a unit. It says that units AND their DT count as 1 unit for reserve purposes. Drop pods are listed on page 36 as a unit that must go in reserve. So, DPs and their units do not count towards reserves, whether they are combat squads or deployed.

Edit: ninja'd

Tactica wrote:Gents,

Read page 36 really carefully... units that must DS in and "any" passengers don't count for reserves math...

You may take a full drop pod army and deploy nothing.

+1 for being right
+1 for making my life easier
+1 for making me look the fool.

Although if you plan on using terminators/LotD you cannot DS everything as they cannot take DP.

Captain Antivas wrote:

Dooley wrote:
. If you added a 10 man scout squad split into combat squads you could deploy them on an objective and DS everything on that list.

Captain Antivas wrote:

Dooley wrote:


. So in your example only the Captain or one of the Terminators must start on the board. If you added a 10 man scout squad split into combat squads you could deploy them on an objective and DS everything on that list.

The list above was an example. Ironicaly enough the list I am currently tooling around with DOES EXACTLY WHAT YOU MENTIONED.

Vulkan
Dread Pod
Dread Pod
Terms (Deep Strike)
Tac Pod
Tac Pod
Scouts 5 (infiltrate)
Scouts 5 (Infiltrate )

Now what I plan on doing is deploy the two scouts (preferably on an obj) via infiltrate and Deepstrike the Terminators utilizing all the locator beacons and hommers for optimal/sergical placement. The only ding the list recives in the new edition is that I can no longer Split the Terms into two 5 man groups and MUST decide weather or not to split the TAC squads before the game starts. I kind of liked the flexibility to split them IF NEED BE once they hit the ground or not.

Im still not 100% on the legality of this however? It all hinges on weather or not the Units IN the pods count as required units. Yes I know the PODS dont count but the UNITS RIDING IN THEM DO! So I would have 8 units and would have to deploy 4?? The entire point is to Deep strike EVERYTHING (minus the scouts) so having things NOT ride in a Pod is really not the point here.

Dooley wrote:Vulkan
Dread Pod
Dread Pod
Terms (Deep Strike)
Tac Pod
Tac Pod
Scouts 5 (infiltrate)
Scouts 5 (Infiltrate )

Now what I plan on doing is deploy the two scouts (preferably on an obj) via infiltrate and Deepstrike the Terminators utilizing all the locator beacons and hommers for optimal/sergical placement. The only ding the list recives in the new edition is that I can no longer Split the Terms into two 5 man groups and MUST decide weather or not to split the TAC squads before the game starts. I kind of liked the flexibility to split them IF NEED BE once they hit the ground or not.

Im still not 100% on the legality of this however? It all hinges on weather or not the Units IN the pods count as required units. Yes I know the PODS dont count but the UNITS RIDING IN THEM DO! So I would have 8 units and would have to deploy 4?? The entire point is to Deep strike EVERYTHING (minus the scouts) so having things NOT ride in a Pod is really not the point here.

If Vulkan is with a Tac he counts as being in the DP (since you just have to inform your opponent that he is starting the game with the unit according to pg. 39) and according to DS rules he doesn't count towards reserves since he is in a transport that is part of DS. If he is part of the Termie squad he counts as his own unit, but is 1 of 4 units that count. So you can keep 2 units in reserve and deploy 2. The 2 scouts being deployed meets that requirement and so you can choose to DS Vulkan in the pod or with the Termies.

Oh, and you round UP, unlike fantasy.

Captain Antivas wrote:
If Vulkan is with a Tac he counts as being in the DP (since you just have to inform your opponent that he is starting the game with the unit according to pg. 39) and according to DS rules he doesn't count towards reserves since he is in a transport that is part of DS. If he is part of the Termie squad he counts as his own unit, but is 1 of 4 units that count. So you can keep 2 units in reserve and deploy 2. The 2 scouts being deployed meets that requirement and so you can choose to DS Vulkan in the pod or with the Termies.

This is not right. While the Reserve rules state that the unit and their transport count as 1, they state that ICs must be counted separate. This means that even if you had a squad + IC in a DP, the IC counts for the math to figure how many units can be held in reserve. The consequence of this is that if you had a 100% DP list, with two ICs in it, one of them would be forced to deploy on the table.

So you take one IC, or take a durable "scout/vanguard" unit which can deploy hunkered-down in terrain.

CanisLupus518 wrote:

Captain Antivas wrote:
If Vulkan is with a Tac he counts as being in the DP (since you just have to inform your opponent that he is starting the game with the unit according to pg. 39) and according to DS rules he doesn't count towards reserves since he is in a transport that is part of DS. If he is part of the Termie squad he counts as his own unit, but is 1 of 4 units that count. So you can keep 2 units in reserve and deploy 2. The 2 scouts being deployed meets that requirement and so you can choose to DS Vulkan in the pod or with the Termies.

This is not right. While the Reserve rules state that the unit and their transport count as 1, they state that ICs must be counted separate. This means that even if you had a squad + IC in a DP, the IC counts for the math to figure how many units can be held in reserve. The consequence of this is that if you had a 100% DP list, with two ICs in it, one of them would be forced to deploy on the table.

...or you throw a tac squad out, put the IC in a DP, and reserve the tac's empty pod... much better than a lone IC, IMHO.

CanisLupus518 wrote:

Captain Antivas wrote:
If Vulkan is with a Tac he counts as being in the DP (since you just have to inform your opponent that he is starting the game with the unit according to pg. 39) and according to DS rules he doesn't count towards reserves since he is in a transport that is part of DS. If he is part of the Termie squad he counts as his own unit, but is 1 of 4 units that count. So you can keep 2 units in reserve and deploy 2. The 2 scouts being deployed meets that requirement and so you can choose to DS Vulkan in the pod or with the Termies.

This is not right. While the Reserve rules state that the unit and their transport count as 1, they state that ICs must be counted separate. This means that even if you had a squad + IC in a DP, the IC counts for the math to figure how many units can be held in reserve. The consequence of this is that if you had a 100% DP list, with two ICs in it, one of them would be forced to deploy on the table.

As was previously posted the DS rules state that anything that must DS and any passengers do not count (pg. 36). The independent character rule you refer to applies, as I read it, to an IC who joins a squad in reserves but is not DS.

Passengers are only exempt if the transport is dedicated.

Marines in their drop pod - Exempt
Marines in a Storm Raven - Marines not exempt, Raven Exempt
Marines in a Rhino - Neither exempt.

Captain Antivas wrote:

CanisLupus518 wrote:

Captain Antivas wrote:
If Vulkan is with a Tac he counts as being in the DP (since you just have to inform your opponent that he is starting the game with the unit according to pg. 39) and according to DS rules he doesn't count towards reserves since he is in a transport that is part of DS. If he is part of the Termie squad he counts as his own unit, but is 1 of 4 units that count. So you can keep 2 units in reserve and deploy 2. The 2 scouts being deployed meets that requirement and so you can choose to DS Vulkan in the pod or with the Termies.

This is not right. While the Reserve rules state that the unit and their transport count as 1, they state that ICs must be counted separate. This means that even if you had a squad + IC in a DP, the IC counts for the math to figure how many units can be held in reserve. The consequence of this is that if you had a 100% DP list, with two ICs in it, one of them would be forced to deploy on the table.

As was previously posted the DS rules state that anything that must DS and any passengers do not count (pg. 36). The independent character rule you refer to applies, as I read it, to an IC who joins a squad in reserves but is not DS.

Good catch!

Per the general Reserve rules, page 124, a dedicated transport and its unit count as 1, and ICs must be counted separately.
However per the more specific Deep Strike rules, page 36, a unit which always Deep Strikes does not count, nor do "any models embarked upon" it.